AMD Enduro Problem

hulawafu77 · Aug 7, 2012

Hello HardForum,

I'm posting here since AMD is ignoring mobile GCN core owners. On the popular NBR forum, threads are being closed and deleted because AMD has issued legal threats to some OEM/Brands who have been nice enough to try and gather feedback to help us owners. NBR was asked by said OEM, and NBR complied because said OEM, Sager, have been a great supporter of the forum and had great relations. They did this as a favor, so NBR is not to blame, nor is Sager.

Here is the issue: Under-GPU utilization. We can see games initially begin with decent utilization or from our AW pals, with Enduro off, the GPU usage is normal, 80-99% and framerate excellent, awesome. But for Clevo/HP with the muxless design, it drops to 40% with framerate that is not the envy of older GPU and older models. It's pathetic. Even DX9 games are affected, people having issues with low framerate in games that were released a decade ago.

For AW and MSI owners, the only solution is to disable Enduro. Clevo/HP owners cannot due to the muxless design. But we don't blame Clevo/HP since the 675M and 680M in this same muxless design are getting desktop performance. Same notebook, just exchanging from Red to Green, desktop performance. Go Red, you cry.

What have we tried? We've tried using ThrottleStop. We've tried core parking, setting up core affinity for games, using AfterBurner to overclock, changing every setting in Windows Power Management, CCC and in Game. We see can get 40 FPS with BF3 with Ultra, but we get 40 FPS on low with BF3, the GPU utilization just drops. We've tried to contact CatalystCreator via twitter, nothing. We've filled out the AMD driver feedback form, no response. We've gotten Sager to contact AMD in our behalf, nothing. We've tried every driver out there, Betas released on Guru3D, official Clevo, WHQL drivers, LeshCat drivers, modded ones from Benchmark, nothing works.

The only solution we have is, get a refund. Return the 7970M and go Green. But we bought AMD hoping for price/performance and some due to brand loyalty, but this is the only solution that works.

Any help or suggestion from the HardForum community to get something done and get a response from AMD very grateful.

Thank you.

Disgruntled 7970M owners of NBR

A post from NBR that clarifies that it was in fact AMD that requested the threads to be closed/deleted.

littlecx · Aug 7, 2012

the problem is seriously affecting my gaming experience. now i have to check if the game perform well with 7970m before i pay. this is very ridiculous and amd and clevo seems just to ignore this.

here is a video to show how bad the 7970m perform. the gpu loading is around 60% when pan to sky and 50% when pan to buildings. this lead to low fps.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AijjXy1NPoo&feature=plcp

SeaFoam · Aug 7, 2012

I posted over on NBR, I'm glad I've looked at the issue more and more. I was about to order the NP9170, my only choices at this point are the M17X with 7970M or the Sager with a 680M.

The lack of response from AMD is making me think the 680M is the way to go. I went through this shit when I got my Trifire 6970s.

Edit: there is a large AMD presence here, so hopefully someone takes note.

Final8ty · Aug 7, 2012

SeaFoam said:
I posted over on NBR, I'm glad I've looked at the issue more and more. I was about to order the NP9170, my only choices at this point are the M17X with 7970M or the Sager with a 680M.

The lack of response from AMD is making me think the 680M is the way to go. I went through this shit when I got my Trifire 6970s.

Edit: there is a large AMD presence here, so hopefully someone takes note.

So who is the AMD representative here, or even official beta testers ?

SeaFoam · Aug 7, 2012

Final8ty said:
So who is the AMD representative here, or even official beta testers ?

I don't know, what I meant by presence was the fact that AMD and [H] are in frequent communication and seem to be involved a lot with each other.

I'm guessing if Kyle brought it up to them, they might take a look.

hulawafu77 · Aug 7, 2012

Just a quick update. The only interaction I've ever heard of between AMD and mobile gamers who purchase their mobile product costing 2X more than their desktop counterpart is to threaten legal action. NBR was forced to delete a few threads in which NBR users were trying to find a solution to this Enduro issue. AMD sent a take down notice and it seemed made legal threats to both Sager and NBR.

I'm hoping HardForum has some ideas to try and resolve this issue. I personally think, if AMD continues in this manner, Clevo will just stop supporting AMD GPUs in the future. Asus already did it, with the lack of support from AMD, Asus just dropped them completely and only feature Nvidia now.

Alienware is also affected. Enduro is not functioning and has to be turned off. Even then, some users are unhappy with the performance. For Clevo, Alienware and MSi, the resounding recommendation right now for high end mobile gaming is, avoid AMD and buy Nvidia. With this latest behavior from AMD, I'm sure that is just going to reinforce the belief, Nvidia is the only good solution for mobile gaming.

night_2004 · Aug 7, 2012

NBR was not threatened by AMD with takedown notices, but we did delete certain threads at Sager's request in an effort to maintain a good faith relationship with that notebook vendor (and I suspect it was an effort to help Sager avoid a difficult position). If NBR members not affiliated with a notebook vendor were to make similar threads there would be no objection to those threads' existence.

Chaz said:
The 7970M thread was closed by AMD's request which was passed onto me by Sager. Sager is not to blame, they did you guys a great favor by reaching out to you.

I'm not one of the mods actually involved with the whole mess but I am at least aware of it. Just wanted to set the record straight on NBR (not) being threatened by legal notices.

hulawafu77 · Aug 7, 2012

The end results were the same. So far the tally is 2 threads deleted and 1 thread closed due to pressure and threats from AMD, even if it was indirect through Sager.

The problem remains. AMD is at fault. Their 7970M costs around $600 and it doesn't work. The GPU utilization is low and affects ALL games.

SeaFoam · Aug 8, 2012

Very disappointing stuff from AMD.

Looks like I'll be going with the 680M. Same with desktop stuff.

hulawafu77 · Aug 8, 2012

Another Update: Worse than I thought.

This Enduro issue is even more widespread than I thought and it affects ALL GCN-based mobile GPU's. AMD is just failing us all.

You forgot: everyone who owns a laptop with an AMD GCN-based card (HD 7730/7750/7850/7970M, so far) has this issue (except Alienware when the MUX Bypass is enabled).

This means, HP (Envy 15/17 with 7750/7850M), DELL (XPS 15/17 with 7730M) are all affected as well.

I have an HP Envy 17 with 7850M and I'm also experiencing this issue.

Apparently HP's solution for the previous-generation AMD cards (HD 6770/6850M/7690M/XT) was to release a BIOS update which added an option to change the switchable graphics mode from Dynamic to Fixed.

This effectively allowed forcing the dedicated GPU to be on at all times.

But the new Envy with Ivy Bridge and 7750/7850M does not have this BIOS option.

XTF · Aug 8, 2012

night_2004 said:
NBR was not threatened by AMD with takedown notices, but we did delete certain threads at Sager's request in an effort to maintain a good faith relationship with that notebook vendor (and I suspect it was an effort to help Sager avoid a difficult position). If NBR members not affiliated with a notebook vendor were to make similar threads there would be no objection to those threads' existence.

That's disappointing. What happened to freedom of information, no censorship, etc?
Don't you value the relationship with your members?

txsizzler · Aug 8, 2012

So the 7670m in my wife's Acer shouldn't be effected by this then?

5150Joker · Aug 8, 2012

XTF said:
That's disappointing. What happened to freedom of information, no censorship, etc?
Don't you value the relationship with your members?

LOL when will you guys learn?

night_2004 · Aug 8, 2012

XTF said:
That's disappointing. What happened to freedom of information, no censorship, etc?
Don't you value the relationship with your members?

Yes, we do. Which is why we encouraged members that were not company representatives to start the discussion again. If you want to discuss that further talk with the lead moderator over at NBR, not here

. I'm sure he'd be happy to talk with you.

hulawafu77 · Aug 8, 2012

night_2004 said:
Yes, we do. Which is why we encouraged members that were not company representatives to start the discussion again. If you want to discuss that further talk with the lead moderator over at NBR, not here . I'm sure he'd be happy to talk with you.

I've yet to see AMD respond to NBR though. NBR and it's mobile users seem to have little influence on what AMD does and does not do. This is why I created a thread as HardForum is a place where I do see something happen, when HardForum makes a ruckus.

NBR is an amazing forum in which members are able to collaborate and find solutions when the OEM and Nvidia/Intel/AMD are unwilling to provide a fix. But this Enduro issue is widespread across all brands, and we realize this is not something OEM can fix, this is something squarely on the shoulders of AMD and AMD is at fault for releasing mobile GCN without proper drivers. But it's time to try and get some more heavy weight support, from communities that AMD actually listen to. HardForum is undoubtedly one of these.

Read a post on NBR where even a NBR mod noted that AMD states it is the responsibility of OEM's to provide drivers, but AMD admitted they did not have drivers that properly support 7970M and other GCN cores to begin with. OEM have nothing to work with but to mod drivers that don't resolve Enduro issues. It's a catch 22 here, and the ones who are suffering most are us GCN owners and the companies like Sager. Not AMD. Sager and Mythlogic and Malibal for example have now had to spend countless hours looking for a solution, taking calls and emails from disgruntled customers. And the only solution they have costs them more money and time in which they are providing exchanges for the 7970M for 680M, 675M or 670M, in other words, Nvidia GPUs that actually work with proper drivers.

YeuEmMaiMai · Aug 11, 2012

well that just makes me happy that I got an older 6630 card...lol . After that fiasco that was Nvidia 8X00GS-M chips that crapped out......... So it is possible for either co to have problems

EchoWars · Aug 11, 2012

Worse on the HP notebooks, as we cannot use the reference drivers from AMD. I don't see the HP software guys tackling this issue even if AMD came up with a proper solution.

Because of that, my brand-spanking-new Envy 17t 3200 is going back to HP, and I'm shopping for something with an nVidia card (even though I'd much rather have AMD graphics).

hulawafu77 · Aug 14, 2012

This is what I'm talking about. Got interested in trying out RaiderZ, from a TotalBiscuit WTF review. RaiderZ looks to be DX9 to me, and yet I can't crank out decent framerate with a 7970M, the flagship, best AMD has to offer for mobile, 7870 desktop equivalent, nearly Ghz edition overclock on it...

octoberasian · Aug 14, 2012

Trying to find an explanation here in this thread on this:
AMD is sending C&D/takedown notices to NBR or the OEMs because the OEMs are providing or trying to provide support for their own products?

Any reason why behind the takedown notices?

Final8ty · Aug 14, 2012

http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?t=33993055

hulawafu77 · Sep 6, 2012

Well looks like we weren't just whining about AMD drivers. Finally someone did a review of the Clevo P150EM and found the same as us users have.

"A quick look at the last GTX 580M system we tested shows performance is better in over half of the games, and slightly lower in the other three titles. We’ll have a second look at the P170EM with a GTX 680M from AVADirect shortly after our full HD 7970M review, though, so stay tuned."

This is a serious screw up from AMD since the 7970M is supposed to be nearly 2x more powerful than the 580M, and unfortunately it's the same result customers are finding also.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6243/amds-enduro-switchable-graphics-levels-up

coo · Aug 31, 2013

Not a surprise..rage3d is funded by AMD....rage3d mods get paychecks from AMD and delete anything AMD does not want people to see...

lilfiend · Sep 6, 2013

with higher end AMD video cards I've always had to set up a custom profile to make them run at full speed all the time. (basically just setting the downclock speeds to the same as full 3d speeds)

TBH I'm not sure what your issues are exactly but it sounds pretty tin-foil hatted, even for [H]

FearTheCow · Sep 8, 2013

Why do I get the feeling that a certain someone (OP) screwed up his laptop and Sager refused to fix it, thus leading to OP running around to every website he can trying to stir up a controversy that doesn't exist.

AMD Enduro Problem

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