AMD 6850 and 6870 released, October 18

danyune said:
i know it's a long thread i'll be honest I haven't kept up

but from what I'm seeing, the 6870 is weaker than the 5870?
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Likely, yes. But its not made to replace the 5870 price and tier wise, that's the 6970's job.
 
danyune said:
i know it's a long thread i'll be honest I haven't kept up

but from what I'm seeing, the 6870 is weaker than the 5870?
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yes, the 6870 will be in between a 5850 and 5870 performance wise. its really just a reshuffled naming scheme for their new cards but pricing should basically reflect that too.
 
cannondale06 said:
how do we know all these slides are real? I mean one of the slides was comparing the 6870 to the 5850 yet it had the memory bandwidth of the 5870 listed under the 5850 specs. could AMD possibly screw that up??
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Memory bandwidth is dependent on memory speed.

5870: 1200mhz * 128 = 153 600/153,6GB/s
5850: 1000mhz * 128 = 128 000/128 GB/s
6870: 1050mhz * 128 = 134 400/134,4 GB/s.

So, they used a 5850 clocked at 1200 mhz memory for the comparison. I really would like to see that spec sheet the slides talk about on the benchmarks. :)

I think those slides are the real deal. If not, its an extremely professional fake which have pinpointed AMD marketing strategies to the letter and even have invented new features of the 6000 series. I wouldn't be ashamed if they turned out to be fake and they "got me", considering how well done they are. :)
 
Tamlin_WSGF said:
Memory bandwidth is dependent on memory speed.

5870: 1200mhz * 128 = 153 600/153,6GB/s
5850: 1000mhz * 128 = 128 000/128 GB/s
6870: 1050mhz * 128 = 134 400/134,4 GB/s.

So, they used a 5850 clocked at 1200 mhz memory for the comparison. I really would like to see that spec sheet the slides talk about on the benchmarks. :)

I think those slides are the real deal. If not, its an extremely professional fake which have pinpointed AMD marketing strategies to the letter and even have invented new features of the 6000 series. I wouldn't be ashamed if they turned out to be fake and they "got me", considering how well done they are. :)
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oh I know how to calculate memory bandwidth. the point was that the "official" slide was directly comparing specs of the 6870 to the 5850 so showing the memory bandwidth of the 5870 was clearly an error.
 
cannondale06 said:
oh I know how to calculate memory bandwidth. the point was that the "official" slide was directly comparing specs of the 6870 to the 5850 so showing the memory bandwidth of the 5870 was clearly an error.
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Its not an error if their 5850 had a 1200mhz memory when performing the benchmarking, but it could also be a copy/paste error which is known to have happen before. :)

We are not talking about a single slide here either, but a full presentation with illustrations and info made very professionally. They scream real to me. :)
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1483889&postcount=3444
 
Tamlin_WSGF said:
Its not an error if their 5850 had a 1200mhz memory when performing the benchmarking, but it could also be a copy/paste error which is known to have happen before. :)

We are not talking about a single slide here either, but a full presentation with illustrations and info made very professionally. They scream real to me. :)
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1483889&postcount=3444
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if the memory is at 4800 then it is not 5850 specs and that is what it is being compared to. probably was a copy and paste mistake but that is a pretty silly and obvious error to make in a presentation.
 
cannondale06 said:
if the memory is at 4800 then it is not 5850 specs and that is what it is being compared to. probably was a copy and paste mistake but that is a pretty silly and obvious error to make in a presentation.
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If its an error, it would be a silly and obvious error if the presentation was real or fake. The 5850 and 5870 specs have been public available for over a year now. Whats your point? The whole presentation witness an extreme amount of work.
 
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USMC2Hard4U said:
Yes. From what I have gathered... the 6870 is the 5770's replacement.

Dont ask me why they did that.
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This is also wrong. The 6870 and 6850 are neither replacements for the 5870/5850 nor the 5770/5750. They are 2 extra new products slotted between the previous existing ones.
 
Tamlin_WSGF said:
If its an error, it would be a silly and obvious error if the presentation was real or fake. The 5850 and 5870 specs have been public available for over a year now. Whats your point? The whole presentation witness an extreme amount of work.
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the only real point was, fake or not, that it was an error that anybody should notice.
 
cannondale06 said:
the only real point was, fake or not, that it was an error that anybody should notice.
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We lack the necessary sheet to see if it really was an error. Apparently, slide 20 contains system configuration and details used. If AMD used 1200mhz on the 5850 they tested, it wasn't an error. Especially since the slide you showed, also contains a 3dmark result.

Edit:
Can't remember seeing this slide in this thread, so here it is:

amd_bartsslide_1.jpg
 
Tamlin_WSGF said:
We lack the necessary sheet to see if it really was an error. Apparently, slide 20 contains system configuration and details used. If AMD used 1200mhz on the 5850 they tested, it wasn't an error. Especially since the slide you showed, also contains a 3dmark result.
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if it was 4800mhz memory being used then it is NOT the correct 5850 specification. that is no different then if it would have been a higher core speed or the wrong number of shaders. no matter HOW you look at it IS an error because they are directly comparing the 6870 to the 5850 not the 5850 with ram at speeds specified for the 5870.
 
cannondale06 said:
if it was 4800mhz memory being used then it is NOT the correct 5850 specification. that is no different then if it would have been a higher core speed or the wrong number of shaders. no matter HOW you look at it IS an error because they are directly comparing the 6870 to the 5850 not the 5850 with ram at 5870 speeds.
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Whatever. I disagree, but it means little to me to speculate why AMD used 1200mz instead of 1000mhz in their slide. :) There are more fun info to speculate about!

Lets move on!
 
Tamlin_WSGF said:
Whatever. I disagree, but it means little to me to speculate why AMD used 1200mz instead of 1000mhz in their slide. :) There are more fun info to speculate about!

Lets move on!
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it doesn't matter if you disagree or not because the slide speaks for itself. the fact remains that the memory specified for the 5850 is 4000mhz not 4800mhz. your reasoning that they may have used 4800mhz on the 5850 makes no sense. if they do that then it is NO longer the memory bandwidth on the card they are comparing the 6870 to. it is obviously just a mistake on someones part for putting the wrong bandwidth number in there. lol
 
everyone with a clue knows this is the card to compete with the gtx460 because the 5770 could not. IF the 6870 launches at 275 bucks then that defeats the point of the card for most people which is to provide more bang for buck than the gtx460.
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again though IF the 6870 is 30% more while providing less than 25% improvement over the stock gtx460 many people will be disappoin
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I thought anyone with a clue would realize that the 6850 is meant to bring down the price/compete with the 460 1gb, since, as I already stated, it beats that card in the early benchmarks. It also, apparently, replaces the 5830, which was the only real competition for the 460. Whether or not the benches are accurate is irrelevant. You expect it to be 25-30% better. If that's the case, why would anyone be "disappointed?"

That's like me being upset that the GTX 470 didn't bring down the prices of the 30% slower 5770.
 
heflys20 said:
I thought anyone with a clue would realize that the 6850 is meant to bring down the price/compete with the 460 1gb, since, as I already stated, it beats that card in the early benchmarks. It also, apparently, replaces the 5830, which was the only real competition for the 460. Whether or not the benches are accurate is irrelevant. You expect it to be 25-30% better. If that's the case, why would anyone be "disappointed?"

That's like me being upset that the GTX 470 didn't bring down the prices of the 30% slower 5770.
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what you just said makes no sense at all. what is so hard for you to understand? its about price/performance and if the 6870 is around 275 bucks then the gtx460 pricing is not going anywhere.
 
cannondale06 said:
what you just said makes no sense at all. what is so hard for you to understand? its about price/performance and if the card is near 275 bucks then the gtx460 pricing is not going anywhere.
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What part don't you understand about the 6850 beating both the 4601gb and 768mb, yet being cheaper at the same time. Why do you keep trying to indicate that the 6870 is a ripoff when the 6850 is the real competition for the 460? Why would a fast card be expected to bring down the prices of a card that's 25-30% slower? Tell me what doesn't make sense about what I just said.
 
heflys20 said:
What part don't you understand about the 6850 beating both the 4601gb and 768mb, yet being cheaper at the same time. Why do you keep trying to indicate that the 6870 is a ripoff when the 6850 is the real competition for the 460? Why would a fast card be expected to bring down the prices of a card that's 25-30% slower? Tell me what doesn't make sense about what I just said.
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how is 275 bucks for the 6870 cheaper than the gtx460 1gb which at around $200 with with rebates? the 6850 could easily be well over 200 bucks and not even beat the gtx460 1gb in every case.
 
cannondale06 said:
how is 275 bucks cheaper than the gtx460 1gb which at around $200 with with rebates? the 6850 could easily be well over 200 bucks and not even beat the gtx460 1gb in every case.
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It's speculated to be $175-200. But until we see official benchmarks/prices, no one knows.

BTW, it doesn't have to beat it. All it needs to be is equivalent/slightly better in performance and cheaper. Then Nvidia will, naturally, have to lower its prices. Thus, you get your coveted 460 reduction.
 
heflys20 said:
It's speculated to be $175-200. But until we see official benchmarks/prices, no one knows.
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IF the 6870 is at or below $250 then that seems reasonable for a launch price IMO. if the the 6850 is $175-$200 then that seems pretty fair too.
 
cannondale06 said:
what you just said makes no sense at all. what is so hard for you to understand? its about price/performance and if the 6870 is around 275 bucks then the gtx460 pricing is not going anywhere.
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Who said the pricing of the GTX 460 is going anywhere? The GTX 285 didn't get a huge pricecut after the launch of 5870, even though the 5870 beat it in price/performance. The 6870 and 6850 is launched to compete against the GTX 460, not to lower its prices.

Hopefully, the prices will be between $150 and $250 as in this slide:
174824quv1cwhwcszvt7ov.jpg
 
Tamlin_WSGF said:
Who said the pricing of the GTX 460 is going anywhere? The GTX 285 didn't get a huge pricecut after the launch of 5870, even though the 5870 beat it in price/performance. The 6870 and 6850 is launched to compete against the GTX 460, not to lower its prices.

Hopefully, the prices will be between $150 and $250 as in this slide:
http://www.chiphell.com/data/attachment/forum/201010/19/174824quv1cwhwcszvt7ov.jpg
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are you kidding me? all we have heard for weeks now is to wait because the 6870/6850 could likely bring prices down for the gtx460 and other cards.
 
heflys20 said:
I'm glad you edited this post. :p LOL.



I think they'll lower prices, perhaps slightly.
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yeah I was posting in another forum too and then doubled checked my post.:eek:

anyway just a couple more days until we see what we are really getting and for how much.
 
cannondale06 said:
are you kidding me? all we have heard for weeks now is to wait because the 6870/6850 could likely bring prices down for the gtx460 and other cards.
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Do you really think that AMD is releasing the 6800 series and pricing them just so you can get a GTX 460 cheaper? :p

LOL! :D

"6870 is too high priced, now I can't get a 460 cheaper. Damn you AMD!"

A GTX 460 might get cheaper after 6800 launches and they are on offer now probably because of that, but if you feel the GTX 460 is to expensive, I suggest you make a post in the Nvidia subsection and complain there. ;)
 
Tamlin_WSGF said:
Do you really think that AMD is releasing the 6800 series and pricing them just so you can get a GTX 460 cheaper? :p

LOL! :D

"6870 is too high priced, now I can't get a 460 cheaper. Damn you AMD!"

A GTX 460 might get cheaper after 6800 launches and they are on offer now probably because of that, but if you feel the GTX 460 is to expensive, I suggest you make a post in the Nvidia subsection and complain there. ;)
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plenty of people were/are expecting the 6870/6850 to be a decent bang for buck card thus forcing some likely price drops from the competition. just look through the threads on here and see for yourself at all the people anticipating that. heck you could probably just google it and find lots of people commenting on that.
 
cannondale06 said:
plenty of people were/are expecting the 6870/6850 to be a bang for buck card thus forcing some likely price drops from the competition. just look through the threads on here and see for yourself at all the people anticipating that.
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I am also anticipating that. :)

But bang for buck is the price/performance of the 6800 series vs. the competition, not how much it can bring down the price of the competition. Thats where your argument fails. Otherwise, I understand your thoughts.

AMD is targeting the 6800 series against the GTX 460. Its natural that they feel their product is competitive in this segment and that their choices will make people choose AMD over Nvidia. But, I don't think that AMD would enjoy it much if the 460's price was forced down in the 5770 market segment.

Still, I think that MRSP will be between $150 and $250 as shown in the slides. :)
 
Tamlin_WSGF said:
We lack the necessary sheet to see if it really was an error. Apparently, slide 20 contains system configuration and details used. If AMD used 1200mhz on the 5850 they tested, it wasn't an error. Especially since the slide you showed, also contains a 3dmark result.

Edit:
Can't remember seeing this slide in this thread, so here it is:

http://www.fudzilla.com/images/stories/2010/October/General_News/amd_bartsslide_1.jpg
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I already posted that 6 days ago, last week.

Also the Aniso improvement slide along with the new AA mode here: http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1036314812&postcount=486
 
Yeah they are admitting that aniso was not the best it could be in HD5xxx. Also the new AA mode looks to be backwards compatible with HD5xxx since it is a post processing effect through DirectCompute. We'll get another checkbox like there is for Adaptive Antialiasing and it should work in conjunction with regular multisampling AA.
 
Lorien said:
Yeah at least they are admitting that aniso was not the best it could be in HD5xxx. Also the new AA mode looks to be backwards compatible with HD5xxx since it is a post processing effect through DirectCompute.
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True. I have a thread on B3D complaining about the AF in the HD 5000 (originated from BFG's excellent AF article on Alienbabeltech) . It seems that some of the new filtering might improve on that though, according to a new post in that thread:
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=57870

10.10 with a reghack gives the new features:
HKR,, EQAA_NA, %REG_SZ%, 1
HKR,, MLF_NA, %REG_SZ%, 1
HKR, "UMD",MLF_DEF, %REG_SZ%, 0
HKR,, EnableUlps_NA, %REG_SZ%, 0
HKR, "UMD",EnableUlps_DEF, %REG_SZ%, 0
HKR,, SurfaceFormatReplacements_NA, %REG_SZ%, 0
HKR, "UMD",SurfaceFormatReplacements_DEF, %REG_SZ%, 1
HKR,, TFQ_NA, %REG_SZ%, 0
HKR, "UMD",TFQ_DEF, %REG_SZ%, 1
 
Yup. This is the FP16 downgrading to FP11 that Nvidia recently called a cheat and made a big stink about it but it turned out that they do it themselves and encourage developers to use it lol.
1287465504920.png
 
Just a heads up, but Amazon removed the 6870 which was priced at $279.99 (or whatever it kept bouncing to that people saw it at). I guess Amazon forgot about the NDA and then was reminded ;) Wonder if the launch price will stay the same, or even be the same across the different companies. So much to look forward to on Friday!
 
XFX 6850 / 6870 landed in Singapore

6850 retail for about USD$250
6870 retail for about USD$299

Sorry wasn't able to take any pictures.
 
cannondale06 said:
are you kidding me? all we have heard for weeks now is to wait because the 6870/6850 could likely bring prices down for the gtx460 and other cards.
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Then that sounds like your personal expectation being out of whack, Im pretty sure noone expected the sole purpose of these cards to be to drop the price on a 460. That may have been what you wanted, but dont project onto others if it looks like it wont happen, its not AMD's job to lower the price of a competitors card you want. Its their job to release an attractive product, and they are succeeding here.

cannondale06 said:
plenty of people were/are expecting the 6870/6850 to be a decent bang for buck card thus forcing some likely price drops from the competition. just look through the threads on here and see for yourself at all the people anticipating that. heck you could probably just google it and find lots of people commenting on that.
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They ARE releasing cards with good bang for the buck. Right now I can buy a Asus 5850CU for $264 on newegg, Or I can wait until friday and buy a 6870 which performs closer to a 5870 than it does a 5850 for around $264 or so.

Ummm....yeah, thats nothing but great for me. Nothing but great.
 
cannondale06 said:
are you kidding me? all we have heard for weeks now is to wait because the 6870/6850 could likely bring prices down for the gtx460 and other cards.
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The alternative was to buy one of the more than satisfactory options already on the market and play games for several weeks. Seems people have lost touch with the purpose of these devices.
 
aldamon said:
The alternative was to buy one of the more than satisfactory options already on the market and play games for several weeks. Seems people have lost touch with the purpose of these devices.
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I'd really like to get a good deal personally, I'm starting to think I should hold out until Black Friday and see if anything pops up on a GTX 470, 5870, or 6870. I've been using this 4850 for 2 and a quarter years now and I don't think I can wait much longer.
 
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