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AM2 Predictions...

benamaster said:
I think all the AM2's will be faster than their respective Intel comepetitiors, Intel is now in the Mac's and they're still 32bit. I just can't forsee Intel having a Dual Core 64bit competitior.
Click to expand...
:confused: :confused:

intel makes x86-64 cpus too ;)
 
(cf)Eclipse said:
GAH!

why does everyone want ddr3? before i go on to denounce it, explain why YOU think ddr3 is a good thing :eek:



warning: you better come up with something good, i won't go easy on you ;)
Click to expand...
Now THIS is something I want to see (your reasonings, not DDR3 itself, necessarilly). LOL
 
freeloader1969 said:
Speculating of course...here's a way for AMD to definitely maintain it's lead over Intel.

65nm die shrink should include the following...

1-2 extra pipelines...
DDR2 memory support upto 1000mhz
200mhz - 1ghz speed increases...
Some of that Z-RAM, as much as 4mb L2 cache and some additional L1...
Further power savings if possible...
Click to expand...
Do you mean pipelines or stages to the pipeline? I think adding stages will be to their detriment. The low stage count in comparison to Intel's NetPuke architecture was what gave AMD the advantage in the first place, giving them a higher IPC.

I think a larger push should be put towards the die shrink.
 
freeloader1969 said:
GilmourD...do you really think 1 or 2 stages to the pipeline would be that detrimental?
Click to expand...
Maybe not so bad, but what would it get besides a highly marketable higher clock speed that won't net any appreciable difference in performance? Considering the fact that even Intel isn't marketing GHz nearly as much as they used to, I think R&D money would be better spent on ways of getting the performance higher than the clock higher.
 
freeloader1969 said:
Point well taken. I'd rather have performance anyday over some skyhigh number that means very little! :D
Click to expand...

not all added stages do bad stuff. look at AXP vs A64, 10 vs 12 stages, but clock for clock, the A64 wins, because the two added stages added the on die memcontroller and ability to clock higher i assume, not 100% on the latter of the two.
 
i think the major boosts will come when AMD goes to 65nm. That's when I'm planning to upgrade. Massive OCes FTW.
 
Well it's definitely going to be interesting to see how AMD pans all this out! Are they going to solely rely on DDR2 and a slight bump in working frequencies or are we in for a treat and get some core mods? I'm hoping for both; being slightly greedy I guess! :D
 
Russ said:
i think the major boosts will come when AMD goes to 65nm. That's when I'm planning to upgrade. Massive OCes FTW.
Click to expand...
the san diego cores have been doing surprisingly well lately, with a lot of single core opterons breaking 3ghz, the kab3e stepping making an introduction, and some interesting results out of the dual cores. amd really needs to work on consistancy. the dies are just too damn big
 
YmkFX said:
DDR2's biggest benefit isn't that it's faster, because it really isn't by much. The major benefit comes from the power savings. DDR1 runs at 2.7v, DDR2 runs at 1.8v.
Click to expand...

Additionally, DDR2 is self-terminating and makes board design easier.
 
CCUABIDExORxDIE said:
yes it is. and i hear most chips can do ddr1000-ddr1200 1:1 without even breaking a sweat.
Click to expand...

That will be too nice..........That alone now makes me wait for AM2 to come out. I'll just be sure to get a 4th redition of a MOBO before i buy one.
 
(cf)Eclipse said:
GAH!

why does everyone want ddr3? before i go on to denounce it, explain why YOU think ddr3 is a good thing :eek:



warning: you better come up with something good, i won't go easy on you ;)
Click to expand...


ddr2 was extremely late to market and memory makers want to move to ddr3 quickly
Also intel even wants to move to ddr3 asap, either at the end of 2006 or early 2007 intel will have one that supports ddr3
 
thanks for the reply man, i appreciate it ;)


also, memory makers want that eh? word from the crucial rep i talk to sometimes puts crucial/micron finally focusing on ddr2, with ddr3 nowhere in sight yet. trying to get any info on ddr3 is kinda tough, and we're looking at an introduction around 2008 for amd, 2 years from now. imo, i don't think the tech will be ready by then. don't expect ddr3 to be free of the same troubles ddr2 had coming to market :p

i'm thinking from a more technical standpoint though.. don't expect ddr3's timings to be anywhere near close to what ddr2 is doing. for those of you who bitch about ddr2's loose timings, go hunt down some specs of gddr3 (which isn't the same thing as ddr3 will be, but it's somewhat similar) and note the timings of 9-12-12-24 or therabouts. :(
 
fb-dimms are comming out in the future and will allow for a mix of ddr2 and ddr3 simultaneously. ddr3 will come got soon than you think
 
Eclipse...can sheer clock speed of certain types of memory make up for the latency of that memory. For example, on the Radeon X1900XT (or whatever they're calling it), we can see that the memory is running at 750mhz (1500 effective). Do I even have this example correct? Your input would be greatly appreciated.
 
yeah, you're right, it will make up for it, just like ddr2 is slowly making up for it by hitting high mhz at.. sorta moderately loose timings.

but either way you break it down, ddr2 is what we're gonna be using. sure, other things may be better, but we won't be using that till later, so you'd be best off either going with intel to get the latest memory tech, or go into the server market and wait for fb-dimms, the area where the tech really shows the most promise. the loading issues that fb-dimms solve for servers don't really apply to normal desktops ;)

winchester, i'm gonna try to remember you said that. nothing personal, it's just curious to see what really ends up happening (i have a bad habit of thinking i'm always right when i'm often not :p)
 
freeloader1969 said:
Speculating of course...here's a way for AMD to definitely maintain it's lead over Intel.

65nm die shrink should include the following...

1-2 extra pipelines...
DDR2 memory support upto 1000mhz
200mhz - 1ghz speed increases...
Some of that Z-RAM, as much as 4mb L2 cache and some additional L1...
Further power savings if possible...
Click to expand...
AMD's 65nm die shrink is a bit late being that a 3-4 quaters later, Intel will be on the 45nm process. The 45nm process from what i hear is not going to be just another die shrink b/c according to Intel process roadmaps, they are due to use the tri-gate transistor which cuts leakage by a lot. It also performs better then SOI. (A few years ago, it was 20% better).

If you had a 65nm AMD, you would not get a 3.8 GHz dual core processor. Most companies are focusing on multi-core and with AMD's vision of getting quad core out in 2007, they are not going to be clocking their quad core processors at 3.8 GHz.

Z-RAM. It's really impressive i have to admit, but there's questions about when it will be released. Tri-gate will offer similiar increases in cache sizes.

"Further advances at Intel, like trigate transistors will essentially place transistor interconnects on a 3D grid instead of a 2D one - allowing for much higher densities without revamping lithography or gate size." (Anandtech)
 
Winchester1897 said:
http://www.crn.com/sections/breakingnews/dailyarchives.jhtml?articleId=164302186
http://eyeonit.itmanagersjournal.com/article.pl?sid=05/06/13/1732208&tid=107&tid=78&tid=105
http://www.behardware.com/news/imprimer/7881/

All talk about amd and dd3 in 2007
Click to expand...
hmm, they do talk about it, but when you actually look at the amd presentation that's linked:
http://www.amdcompare.com/techoutlook/

fb-dimms will be for servers (in '07):

FBDIMM Memory
Fully-Buffered DIMM (FB-DIMM) technology, a next-generation memory interface for server platforms, addresses the scaling needs of both capacity and bandwidth and enables memory to keep pace with processor and I/O improvements in enterprise platforms.
Click to expand...


and ddr3 will be in 2008

DDR3 Memory
DDR3 is the next evolutionary step in DRAM technology. DDR3 is designed to offer users higher memory bandwidth compared to DDR2. Anticipated interface speeds are 1066MHz, 1333MHz and 1600MHz. DDR3 also operates at a lower voltage (1.5V) than DDR2 (1.8V), offering lower power. AMD, along with its infrastructure partners, plans to incorporate and support DDR3 technology in 2008.
Click to expand...
 
Winchester1897 said:
(cf)Eclipse we will see what happens I will remember you. May the best man WIN. :)
Click to expand...
agreed! i wish [H] had a toast smiley, like the ones over at XS. they're very festive, and help indicate good-natured competition :p :D
 
YmkFX said:
DDR2's biggest benefit isn't that it's faster, because it really isn't by much. The major benefit comes from the power savings. DDR1 runs at 2.7v, DDR2 runs at 1.8v.
Click to expand...

that seems useful for laptop/notebook users but why would a desktop user care

You would save one or two watts per module per hour
 
needmorecarnitine said:
that seems useful for laptop/notebook users but why would a desktop user care

You would save one or two watts per module per hour
Click to expand...

Because then you can crank the voltage up and get 3 ghz out of it. :D
 
Whatever happens with AM2, I hope they fix the power state issues so the dual core gaming fixes go away :D. Well, with Vista anyway...should be out around same time as AM2?
 
This isn't on topic but, a lot of goddamn people could stand to see dirzzlt's signature.


Now that's over.

AM2 should be out around April/May, Vista might be out in Q3/Q4. I'm probably going to keep XP SP2 for awhile. OSes suck when they first hit.
 
’m‚³‚ñ said:
Because then you can crank the voltage up and get 3 ghz out of it. :D
Click to expand...

I find it unlikely that you will get any current DDR2 module up to 3GHz, but hey, what do I know...
 
needmorecarnitine said:
I find it unlikely that you will get any current DDR2 module up to 3GHz, but hey, what do I know...
Click to expand...

I was kidding. :p

And, yeah, my RAM runs at 3.2v. :p
 
MiXdNuTs said:
Hopefully, they will make some core tweaks or maybe just better manufacturing that allows for better clocks.
Click to expand...

stress memorization technology

adding silicon germanium to positive transistors

Layering a new compressive film of silicon nitride to the chip and removing it from just the negative transistors, and then layering a tensile strain atop the entire chip and removing it from just the positive transistors

This I culled from an article talking about new techniques that will be used on the 65nm processors. It states that they will be first tested on 90nm cpus made at Fab30

http://www.infoworld.com/article/05/12/06/HNibmamd_1.html
 
Just as the San Diego and Manchester E cores brought with them improvements, the F cores (AM2) will also bring improvements, it's not just about the DDR2 ;)

Better memory controller eh?
 
(cf)Eclipse said:
GAH!

why does everyone want ddr3? before i go on to denounce it, explain why YOU think ddr3 is a good thing :eek:
Click to expand...

'cause 3 > 2, which means that DDR3 > DDR2. Argue with this simple reasoning!
 
DocFaustus said:
Hell Yea! that's why the FX5600 woops the XT1800
Click to expand...
you are misunderstanding, this comparison does not work across product lines, obviously the XT1800 beats the FX5600, since X > F... sheesh :rolleyes: some people
 
interesting article worth reading....tells about amd's quad cores and the switch from ddr to ddr2 to ddr3.....
 
needmorecarnitine said:
Layering a new compressive film of silicon nitride to the chip and removing it from just the negative transistors, and then layering a tensile strain atop the entire chip and removing it from just the positive transistors
Click to expand...
sounds a lot like DSL, which is already being used ;)
 
drizzt81 said:
you are misunderstanding, this comparison does not work across product lines, obviously the XT1800 beats the FX5600, since X > F... sheesh :rolleyes: some people
Click to expand...
Ohhhhhh my bad. I thought your post was just sarcasm, I didn't really think you seriously thought what you said. I was just replying in similar sarcasm because of course the 5600 cannot touch the 1800.

So are you really saying you think the DDR3 is better because it is a greater number?????

Edit: Hah, you got me, I missed the X > F part!!!!!
 
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