Am I just lucky?

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I've been following Hard Forum for years and reading about so many problems that other members have had with both hardware and Win 10. Am I just lucky after building several new desktop computers loaded with Win 10? I've had no hardware issues on any of them and have kept up to date on all Win10 updates and, as of now I've had no issues with hardware or Win 10! Lucky me?
 

travm

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I've been following Hard Forum for years and reading about so many problems that other members have had with both hardware and Win 10. Am I just lucky after building several new desktop computers loaded with Win 10? I've had no hardware issues on any of them and have kept up to date on all Win10 updates and, as of now I've had no issues with hardware or Win 10! Lucky me?
Nope, my experience with Win10 has been the same. Unfortunately some of the alt OS crowd need to spew vile in order to make their own personal preference appear the only logical choice. Those topics and threads dont generally get disputed because when they do, it boils down to arguing about personal preference which goes nowhere. Win 10 is great, works well, and if you don't have tinfoil hat syndrome about MS telemetry (which frankly MS is a saint compared to Google) it just works.

All that said, sometimes hardware conflicts happen, sometimes updates break things (drivers etc.) No OS is immune to this. It also helps if you research for compatibility before hand. If you don't do this, than yes even using windows you have been lucky (there are lots of hardware devices out there that don't support win7+).
 

vegeta535

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Definitely not lucky. A lot of people like to nitpick and make mountains out of ant hills. I rarely had any issues with any windows. My PCs are generally upto date with latest hardware. Not trying to downplay some people issues but needs just love to to rage when things are not how they want it exactly.
 

michalrz

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Do you mean - problems with hardware, or problems with Windows 10, or problems with using certain hardware on said system?

I don't really have problems with hardware most of the time as well. I don't know why. I've had a GT210 die in a random computer in my house and that's it for the decade.

Problems that specifically have to do with hardware on Windows 10 - I sometimes had bluescreens during SD card access on a Thinkpad T430, but they just vanished after a few months probably due to an update fixing something. Other than that... not really.

Problems with Windows 10 - those I do have. And have had since its early days.
I bump into various annoyances with it on a regular basis and I'm not 100% confident in it due to that pesky bit in the EULA about MS reserving the right to alter (add/remove features) your OS after you bought a legit license. I regularly find random options that were reset to default after an update and have to hunt down a problem more than once.
These are not yet dealbreakers for me, but it is a sign of the times and overall disrespect big companies have for their userbase.
 

pendragon1

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Am I just lucky?​

nope. if its working you wont hear about it. if it has a minor problem people scream bloody murder. i personally havent had a major windows or hardware issue that i wasnt the cause of, ever.
 

cdabc123

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These threads are always entertaining.

Many find it just unfathomable that Windows 10 has issues. Maybe forcing relatively drastic updates out to every computer running the software is capable of causing issues? Maybe it would be neato to chose when to update?

I'm not going to get into individual issues ive had as frankly I do quite abit with a large variety of hardware and will run into software issues across it. You could not tell me windows 10 is a great os when a good portion of those issues were a result of this fantastic os.

Dont ask how many times ive had to wipe and reinstall Windows 10 on rigs when the os broke itself. And while were at it the installation process for Windows 10 is the worst of any windows os (generally I cant complain about the install process for windows)

Figured I would start off dramatic this time as last time around I just talked about the few issues I have had with Windows 10 and apparently the local flora and fauna still cant register any viewpoints besides how great windows 10 is.

Try 2019 server it's super nice and many of the annoyances of Windows 10 have been altered. (Also never broke itself from a update :p )
 

vegeta535

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These threads are always entertaining.

Many find it just unfathomable that Windows 10 has issues. Maybe forcing relatively drastic updates out to every computer running the software is capable of causing issues? Maybe it would be neato to chose when to update?

I'm not going to get into individual issues ive had as frankly I do quite abit with a large variety of hardware and will run into software issues across it. You could not tell me windows 10 is a great os when a good portion of those issues were a result of this fantastic os.

Dont ask how many times ive had to wipe and reinstall Windows 10 on rigs when the os broke itself. And while were at it the installation process for Windows 10 is the worst of any windows os (generally I cant complain about the install process for windows)

Figured I would start off dramatic this time as last time around I just talked about the few issues I have had with Windows 10 and apparently the local flora and fauna still cant register any viewpoints besides how great windows 10 is.

Try 2019 server it's super nice and many of the annoyances of Windows 10 have been altered. (Also never broke itself from a update :p )
Wtf can you complain about the install process? It literally takes 10 mins and few prompts and it is done?
 

cdabc123

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Wtf can you complain about the install process? It literally takes 10 mins and few prompts and it is done?

Ever past version was better? Every server version is better? Ask me for the password. Don't ask me to make a microsoft account dont hide the option to use a local account. Dont ask me abunch of question that I'm obviously going to say no too. Dont have cortana talk to me.

All just minor steps in the wrong direction. I just want to insert the password see the setting up windows screen for a few minutes and be done with it.
 

vegeta535

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Ever past version was better? Every server version is better? Ask me for the password. Don't ask me to make a microsoft account dont hide the option to use a local account. Dont ask me abunch of question that I'm obviously going to say no too. Dont have cortana talk to me.

All just minor steps in the wrong direction. I just want to insert the password see the setting up windows screen for a few minutes and be done with it.
You are just one of those people. I get it.
 

cdabc123

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Took longer than I figured it would.
The first post should have been enough :p

Also riddle me this. Why is it my 272 thread xeon phi stuff runs just fine on Linux but windows decides to give up every time I try to start it up?

Also why is every fpga development ise for Windows just the Linux version that runs in a vm?
 

travm

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Also riddle me this. Why is it my 272 thread xeon phi stuff runs just fine on Linux but windows decides to give up every time I try to start it up?
Because windows wasn't designed to run 272 threads. wtf. Your linux is a niche product, for niche hardware. I bet if I grabbed the default ubuntu ISO from Canonical and ran the livecd on your 272 super duper mega ultron threaded zeon it would just work, 2-3 clicks yes? one password?

Also why is every fpga development ise for Windows just the Linux version that runs in a vm?
Because computer scientists are control freaks. The guys that wrote those ISE's are freaks. So clearly its going to be targeted for linux.


Obvious troll thread is obvious. Over and out.
 

pendragon1

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Because windows wasn't designed to run 272 threads. wtf. Your linux is a niche product, for niche hardware. I bet if I grabbed the default ubuntu ISO from Canonical and ran the livecd on your 272 super duper mega ultron threaded zeon it would just work, 2-3 clicks yes? one password?


Because computer scientists are control freaks. The guys that wrote those ISE's are freaks. So clearly its going to be targeted for linux.


Obvious troll thread is obvious. Over and out.
quit being such a windows fanboi ;)
funny how attitudes like that never seems to convince anyone to switch....
 
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JSHamlet234

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I have no hardware issues with Windows 10 Pro. I have it on an X99 build and a B350 build. That being said, I don't like it very much. It's my least favorite version of Windows since 95. I could rant about it for hours, but I'll try to keep this short. First, it has a butt-ugly GUI. Windows 9X/NT4/2K/Vista/7 all look better to me. Then there's the "Big Brother" aspect. I shouldn't have to disable so much damn telemetry, so many useless services, automatic updates, and so many useless scheduled tasks in order to make it work the way that I want it to. Not only is it annoying to have to disable so much crap, but it's annoying that the OS fights you every step of the way. I shouldn't have to give myself extra permissions, take possession of files, edit the group policy, and edit the registry in order to make changes on MY machine. And if I don't do it just right, the OS will blast me with alerts and write tens of thousands of warnings to the event log. It's like this OS is on a constant menstrual cycle. If you haven't had the pleasure, just try to get rid of that X-Box live garbage. If you can do it in under 3 hours on your first try, you're better at this than I am. It would also be nice if once it was authenticated, I could at least pretend that I owned it. A few years ago I replaced my dead ASUS X99-A with an X99-A/USB 3.1 and it required a call to Microsoft, proof of motherboard purchase (by having them access my PC remotely to view my Amazon invoice), and that was AFTER they tried to downgrade me to Windows 10 Home with NO explanation as to why. It was not a quick phone call; it was a damn 2-hour long prostate exam.
 

Zedicus

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Do you use a 2 ton diesel truck to get groceries from Dillons?
Do you still build GUIs with ASCII?
Do you still wipe your ass with old magazines?
Did you take a grinder to you SAE wrench cuz it wouldn't work on that kids Toyota?

stop using the wrong tool for the job.

i have a windows sever, several linux servers (one does Samba4 AD). a FreeBSD server, and mostly windows desktop computers. My biggest pet peeve about windows is trying to find older Intel chipset drivers. THAT is a PITA.
 

cdabc123

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Do you use a 2 ton diesel truck to get groceries from Dillons?
Do you still build GUIs with ASCII?
Do you still wipe your ass with old magazines?
Did you take a grinder to you SAE wrench cuz it wouldn't work on that kids Toyota?

stop using the wrong tool for the job.

i have a windows sever, several linux servers (one does Samba4 AD). a FreeBSD server, and mostly windows desktop computers. My biggest pet peeve about windows is trying to find older Intel chipset drivers. THAT is a PITA.
Not as much of a pita as finding laptop network drivers on Linux :p
 

cdabc123

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Because windows wasn't designed to run 272 threads. wtf. Your linux is a niche product, for niche hardware. I bet if I grabbed the default ubuntu ISO from Canonical and ran the livecd on your 272 super duper mega ultron threaded zeon it would just work, 2-3 clicks yes? one password?


Because computer scientists are control freaks. The guys that wrote those ISE's are freaks. So clearly its going to be targeted for linux.


Obvious troll thread is obvious. Over and out.
Ya Ubuntu is plug and play on the rigs the livecdworks works great. And the installation doesnt even try to talk to you or ask stupid questions.
 

travm

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Ya Ubuntu is plug and play on the rigs the livecdworks works great. And the installation doesnt even try to talk to you or ask stupid questions.
Thats fantastic.
Personally I find windows 10 installs far easier and require less attention than linux installs. As for the second part, remember clippy? I dont miss him.
 

Zedicus

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Not as much of a pita as finding laptop network drivers on Linux :p
i have changed out wireless nics in laptops to something atheros based because it was easier than getting the dollar bin garbage that was there originally too work.
 

cdabc123

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Thats fantastic.
Personally I find windows 10 installs far easier and require less attention than linux installs. As for the second part, remember clippy? I dont miss him.
Have you tried 2019 server? It's like windows 10 the way it should have been.

I prefer clippy over cortana
 

travm

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Have you tried 2019 server? It's like windows 10 the way it should have been.
I've got 2020 Server running in the basement. It just works, does server things. CLI only though, so I don't think it compares to windows. Install was definitely more complex than any Win 10 install.
I prefer clippy over cortana
I'll back that. My only interaction with cortana is during install, right before I click the no thank you button (or whatever it is). After that its just not an issue.

Things like cortana IMO, you have to remember that windows UI is designed to the lowest common denominator. So the UI things we hate as enthusiasts are enabled by default to appease the masses (or marketing, jury's still out). We're actually able to tweak the system to be what we want (within limits, obviously linux has no limits in this regard). Turning off those things that I dont like isnt hard, and I would say, in the same neighbourhood as installing linux.
 

Zedicus

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windows 10 still does not always even correctly detect NVME drives with out adding drivers during the install. MBR issues, stupid partition lay outs. my favorite was having to load SATA drivers from a floppy disk on windows XP.

not that every linux install goes off perfectly, but man windows installs are either dead simple or deadly, nothing between.
 

cdabc123

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I've got 2020 Server running in the basement. It just works, does server things. CLI only though, so I don't think it compares to windows. Install was definitely more complex than any Win 10 install.

I'll back that. My only interaction with cortana is during install, right before I click the no thank you button (or whatever it is). After that its just not an issue.

Things like cortana IMO, you have to remember that windows UI is designed to the lowest common denominator. So the UI things we hate as enthusiasts are enabled by default to appease the masses (or marketing, jury's still out). We're actually able to tweak the system to be what we want (within limits, obviously linux has no limits in this regard). Turning off those things that I dont like isnt hard, and I would say, in the same neighbourhood as installing linux.
You should give the server version a spin with the gui. Honestly everything past 2008 r2 requires almost no additional tweaking to run. (5min at most on install).

Even better it still retains most of the power user goodness that makes win 10 painful to work with. Search isnt gimped like windows 10 is finding options is much closer to where you would expect things to be.
 

travm

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You should give the server version a spin with the gui. Honestly everything past 2008 r2 requires almost no additional tweaking to run. (5min at most on install).

Even better it still retains most of the power user goodness that makes win 10 painful to work with. Search isnt gimped like windows 10 is finding options is much closer to where you would expect things to be.
its on the list.
Unfortunately Win 10 is required on my PC. Until software support is more universal I wont be running any main systems on anything but Windows.
 

cdabc123

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its on the list.
Unfortunately Win 10 is required on my PC. Until software support is more universal I wont be running any main systems on anything but Windows.
Software support should be near identical between 2019 server and windows 10. With the exception of poorly coded programs that run a "os check" and can comprehind seeing anything other then win 10.
 
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GoldenTiger

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Nope, not just lucky. Win10 rocks and has since its later betas in 2014.

Desktop Linux SUCKS. Yeah you have a few people that defend it like a religion, but it's not suitable for virtually anything desktop wise.
 

travm

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Nope, not just lucky. Win10 rocks and has since its later betas in 2014.

Desktop Linux SUCKS. Yeah you have a few people that defend it like a religion, but it's not suitable for virtually anything desktop wise.
Op just made a troll post and flaked off. This is exactly what he was hoping for I'd wager.

What a tool.
 

GiGaBiTe

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Nope, not just lucky. Win10 rocks and has since its later betas in 2014.

Desktop Linux SUCKS. Yeah you have a few people that defend it like a religion, but it's not suitable for virtually anything desktop wise.

Been using Linux for desktop use for 20 years with far fewer issues than Windows. I don't have to worry about leaving my computer on one night to come back the next day to find that a completely different OS is installed without my consent that wiped out all of my data. Or pray that one of the many major disastrous updates to Windows 10 doesn't crater the machine so badly that it needs to be wiped and reinstalled. My 3D printer server/bench machine running Windows 10 had completely killed itself at least 3 times with bad Windows 10 updates. I also don't have to worry about critical tasks being killed in the middle of running on Windows Server because Microsoft decided to re-enable updates and automatic restarts, even after you explicitly turn them off and cause massive data corruption and days of lost work.

Linux may not be perfect, but it is still better than anything Microsoft can conjure up. I'd be interested to know why you think Linux as a desktop role sucks. Is it driver support? Applications? Installation? Or is it a general disdain because it's something different you don't have much experience with.

If anything, Windows 10 is a landfill fire. It's in a perpetual state of alpha quality software at best because Microsoft thinks that Windows Insiders are equivalent to their former internal QA department they axed years ago. One of the biggest mistakes they ever made. Had they still have their QA department, they wouldn't be in the news literally multiple times a month for the past number of years about dumpster fire updates that have to be recalled and redeployed, sometimes numerous times for cratering tens of thousands or millions of machines.
 

Zeoclang

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I have been using Windows 10 since it came out. Have I had problems? Yes. But after 5 years of using it on desktops, laptops, and all-in-ones I only had one serious problem. An update went bad or an incorrect driver was automatically installed. Maybe I could have fixed it but it was faster for me to just re-install W10.
 

funkydmunky

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I've been following Hard Forum for years and reading about so many problems that other members have had with both hardware and Win 10. Am I just lucky after building several new desktop computers loaded with Win 10? I've had no hardware issues on any of them and have kept up to date on all Win10 updates and, as of now I've had no issues with hardware or Win 10! Lucky me?
No. Unfortunately you are just a narcissist. Your situation isn't a diagnosis, but your post is. Most definitely.
 
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I would say hardware compatibility is one of the main things Windows 10 mostly gets right, actually, unless you're on old hardware that never updated its drivers for Windows 8 or later. In my experience, Windows 10 generally works well with any hardware that supported Windows 8, as well as all newer hardware. I've mostly seen it run into issues with really old hardware, with the only exception being that I recently built a computer and didn't have the onboard NIC, an Intel 225V supported out of the box. But the driver DVD that came with the motherboard had the driver on it, so I was able to get the system online that way. That situation is pretty much why I don't understand why people see driver DVDs that come with a motherboard as useless because you can "just go online" and simply throw them away before they even try installing Windows. Well, what if you can't "just go online" because Windows didn't support your NIC out of the box? I also found a driver DVD handy in a situation where I needed a driver for my SATA controller to even install Windows. Generally weird stuff like that happens when the motherboard is newer than your Windows installation media, but it happens.

But anyway... generally once Windows 10 is online, it does an amazing job of detecting all your hardware and finding the right drivers in my experience. In my opinion, I feel like the main reason why people don't like Windows 10 is because they want to fight the design. They want to avoid using a Microsoft account, avoid being tracked, and in general want it to be more like an alternative OS or an older version of Windows when it's not designed around that at all. I somewhat sympathize with these people because they are essentially jumping through a lot of weird hoops to be able to keep using a version of Windows that gets updates while resenting everything about it, and probably stuck with Windows 7 until the very end of support. Windows 10 doesn't really meet their needs, but they have nothing better to switch to, especially on modern hardware.

My advice is, if you're going to use Windows 10... give it a chance to show you everything it has to offer. Use a Microsoft account, don't turn off the telemetry, and give Microsoft Edge a shot. If you have an Office 365 subscription, take the OneDrive integration seriously and use that too. You'll find that the more devices you use Windows 10 on, and the more you use your Microsoft account in general, the more you'll appreciate the design here because it syncs all your settings across multiple machines. You just sign in to Windows with that Microsoft account, your documents are all there in OneDrive, and Edge has synced all your bookmarks and passwords, you're signed into Skype, it knows what apps you own from the Windows Store, and it even sets your favorite wallpaper for you. It's also really nice when you're logging into, say, a family member's Windows 10 computer with your account, and you find everything is setup the way you want on a computer you don't even use, you have all your bookmarks in Edge, all your documents in OneDrive, etc. You can just hop right in like you're at home and get down to business without having to "build a temporary nest," if you know what I mean. Basically, Windows 10 is primarily a pain for people who want to avoid the whole Microsoft ecosystem and don't like their services, and that's fair. But if you give it a chance, it can be okay. Imagine what using Android is like for people who want to avoid Google, and realize that's basically what you're putting yourself through if you try to use Windows while avoiding Microsoft.
 

cyclone3d

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I've only had issues putting Windows 10 on certain older-ish laptops as Dell doesn't support Windows 10 on a lot of their older-ish laptops. Though I will say that Windows 10 usually installs all missing drivers through the "optional updates" I've only had to go searching a few times to find drivers.

As for Windows 10 as a whole.. I've been running since pre-release and haven't had much trouble with it at all.

Moving licenses for Windows and Office products has gotten really easy as well. It really just keeps getting better.

My only real gripe is the admin stuff that they have moved / changed the layout of. Stupid hard to find some stuff unless you use it all the time... Why did they have to take a bunch of stuff out of the control panel and change the interface? Stuff worked perfectly before and it was easy to use.
 

pendragon1

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I've only had issues putting Windows 10 on certain older-ish laptops as Dell doesn't support Windows 10 on a lot of their older-ish laptops. Though I will say that Windows 10 usually installs all missing drivers through the "optional updates" I've only had to go searching a few times to find drivers.

As for Windows 10 as a whole.. I've been running since pre-release and haven't had much trouble with it at all.

Moving licenses for Windows and Office products has gotten really easy as well. It really just keeps getting better.

My only real gripe is the admin stuff that they have moved / changed the layout of. Stupid hard to find some stuff unless you use it all the time... Why did they have to take a bunch of stuff out of the control panel and change the interface? Stuff worked perfectly before and it was easy to use.
that dell support thing means just that, they dont support it. it still works fine with oem drivers/windows updates drivers, we have dozens and dozens of "unsupported" laptops in our asset pool.
yup
yup
and because some of it wasnt being used and it looks old af. need to make it look pretty....
 

GiGaBiTe

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That situation is pretty much why I don't understand why people see driver DVDs that come with a motherboard as useless because you can "just go online" and simply throw them away before they even try installing Windows. Well, what if you can't "just go online" because Windows didn't support your NIC out of the box? I also found a driver DVD handy in a situation where I needed a driver for my SATA controller to even install Windows. Generally weird stuff like that happens when the motherboard is newer than your Windows installation media, but it happens.

Worst advice ever. NEVER throw out OEM driver discs because more often than not the version bundled with the peripheral does things that a generic driver won't do, or has software not available for download without going to one of those shady driver sites on the far corners of the internet. Can't tell you how many times I've come across devices that were useless because no drivers were available and the OEM disc was long lost or tossed. And this isn't on obscure hardware either, Intel is a perfect example, they shitcanned their entire software catalog for all of their products past a certain date. AMD has several chipsets without publicly available drivers and many network devices are the same.

But anyway... generally once Windows 10 is online, it does an amazing job of detecting all your hardware and finding the right drivers in my experience.

Guess you're lucky then. There are a ton of posts on this very forum of people having terrible problems with the generic drivers Windows 10 installs. Either the driver doesn't work properly, is missing features, or is grossly outdated. Can't tell you how many hours I've spent hunting down the correct drivers for something Windows 10 either can't find drivers for, or has a generic garbage driver.

In my opinion, I feel like the main reason why people don't like Windows 10 is because they want to fight the design. They want to avoid using a Microsoft account, avoid being tracked, and in general want it to be more like an alternative OS or an older version of Windows when it's not designed around that at all. I somewhat sympathize with these people because they are essentially jumping through a lot of weird hoops to be able to keep using a version of Windows that gets updates while resenting everything about it, and probably stuck with Windows 7 until the very end of support. Windows 10 doesn't really meet their needs, but they have nothing better to switch to, especially on modern hardware.

My advice is, if you're going to use Windows 10... give it a chance to show you everything it has to offer. Use a Microsoft account, don't turn off the telemetry, and give Microsoft Edge a shot. If you have an Office 365 subscription, take the OneDrive integration seriously and use that too. You'll find that the more devices you use Windows 10 on, and the more you use your Microsoft account in general, the more you'll appreciate the design here because it syncs all your settings across multiple machines. You just sign in to Windows with that Microsoft account, your documents are all there in OneDrive, and Edge has synced all your bookmarks and passwords, you're signed into Skype, it knows what apps you own from the Windows Store, and it even sets your favorite wallpaper for you. It's also really nice when you're logging into, say, a family member's Windows 10 computer with your account, and you find everything is setup the way you want on a computer you don't even use, you have all your bookmarks in Edge, all your documents in OneDrive, etc. You can just hop right in like you're at home and get down to business without having to "build a temporary nest," if you know what I mean. Basically, Windows 10 is primarily a pain for people who want to avoid the whole Microsoft ecosystem and don't like their services, and that's fair. But if you give it a chance, it can be okay. Imagine what using Android is like for people who want to avoid Google, and realize that's basically what you're putting yourself through if you try to use Windows while avoiding Microsoft.

This word salad can basically be condensed down to "I don't have a problem selling my soul to big tech because they feed me with a silver spoon, and neither should you". Yeah, no thanks.

Corporate hacks are so frequent that you can't go a week out of the year without hearing about yet another big data breach that exposed confidential information of millions of accounts. It's entirely your business if you don't mind trusting your most confidential information to big tech, but those of us with common sense aren't having any of it. But it's worse than that, they can erase you from existence at their whim for any reason at any time, without warning. Subscribe to the wrong side of the political aisle? Be prepared to have a very bad time. Don't do something they don't like in public? Be prepared to be shut down. The guy that lost a $25k Apple account for no reason is but one of innumerable people screwed by big tech.

And when your data is eventually leaked in a hack, good luck. Big tech has done all it can over the years to minimize their responsibility to make sure their consumer base gets as little compensation as possible. SSN got leaked? Best you can hope for is a year of free identity protection, like your identity is magically safe after that time. The only real protection people in all of these data breaches is numbers. Gotta hope some criminal glosses over your info in favor of someone else.

So yeah, that "people fighting it" thing you were talking about, was for a very good reason.
 
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This word salad can basically be condensed down to "I don't have a problem selling my soul to big tech because they feed me with a silver spoon, and neither should you". Yeah, no thanks.

Corporate hacks are so frequent that you can't go a week out of the year without hearing about yet another big data breach that exposed confidential information of millions of accounts. It's entirely your business if you don't mind trusting your most confidential information to big tech, but those of us with common sense aren't having any of it. But it's worse than that, they can erase you from existence at their whim for any reason at any time, without warning. Subscribe to the wrong side of the political aisle? Be prepared to have a very bad time. Don't do something they don't like in public? Be prepared to be shut down. The guy that lost a $25k Apple account for no reason is but one of innumerable people screwed by big tech.

And when your data is eventually leaked in a hack, good luck. Big tech has done all it can over the years to minimize their responsibility to make sure their consumer base gets as little compensation as possible. SSN got leaked? Best you can hope for is a year of free identity protection, like your identity is magically safe after that time. The only real protection people in all of these data breaches is numbers. Gotta hope some criminal glosses over your info in favor of someone else.

So yeah, that "people fighting it" thing you were talking about, was for a very good reason.

Well, now if you're talking about banking information, SSN, that kind of thing, of course you have to be VERY careful with that information. That's a separate issue in my mind, I've only ever given Microsoft a credit card number for a card with a fairly low credit limit that I can cancel or get changed at any time, I can honestly tell you I have not given them an SSN or my bank details. Those leaks you're talking about usually happen more with retail shops or employers who have a ton of info on their employees on file in a system that's not very secure. I just don't see the data I'm giving up as being on the same level as my banking and SSN info, because I don't really do online banking and I'm not giving out my SSN online either.

The majority of the information you'd be opting out of with the telemetry stuff is basically information about how you use apps, what websites you go to, etc. Stuff that's either designed to diagnose Windows problems or target ads at you, and while the sheer amount of info they have and the behavior they can predict is a bit freaky, I would hardly say I'm giving them my most confidential information. I'm actually pretty careful with my financial info, and as for the rest of it I feel like I personally don't have anything worth hiding. If Microsoft starts demanding I give them my Social Security number and my bank details for me to be allowed to use Windows, then that will be the day I stop using Windows.

I just don't understand how people make the leap all the way from not liking tracking and targeted ads to saying it's exactly the same type of risk as giving out your SSN and bank details to strangers to allow them to have any of your data at all. I basically mean that I don't really care if Microsoft knows what websites I go to or how I use applications, precisely because I don't feel like that is my most confidential information. I'm obviously going to have a different reaction if someone wants me to trust them with sensitive financial information that could cost me a lot of money if it's misused than if it's just information about my daily habits, what I do online, and what I like and dislike.
 

GiGaBiTe

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Well, now if you're talking about banking information, SSN, that kind of thing, of course you have to be VERY careful with that information. That's a separate issue in my mind, I've only ever given Microsoft a credit card number for a card with a fairly low credit limit that I can cancel or get changed at any time, I can honestly tell you I have not given them an SSN or my bank details.

If you haven't turned off voice, inking and typing telemetry, then you can be rest assured any confidential information you've ever typed into any Windows 10 PC has been sent directly to Microsoft. Windows 10 has had a built-in keylogger since at least 2015 and Microsoft has been in hot water over it logging confidential information already. Even clicking the "off" switch doesn't disable it. And by extension, everything you say into the microphone is sent off too.

Those leaks you're talking about usually happen more with retail shops or employers who have a ton of info on their employees on file in a system that's not very secure. I just don't see the data I'm giving up as being on the same level as my banking and SSN info, because I don't really do online banking and I'm not giving out my SSN online either.

I don't recall Equifax, Sony or the US government being retail shops. But they do have some very abhorrent security practices.

The majority of the information you'd be opting out of with the telemetry stuff is basically information about how you use apps, what websites you go to, etc. Stuff that's either designed to diagnose Windows problems or target ads at you, and while the sheer amount of info they have and the behavior they can predict is a bit freaky, I would hardly say I'm giving them my most confidential information. I'm actually pretty careful with my financial info, and as for the rest of it I feel like I personally don't have anything worth hiding. If Microsoft starts demanding I give them my Social Security number and my bank details for me to be allowed to use Windows, then that will be the day I stop using Windows.

The seemingly innocuous information you say you don't have a problem giving away is used in a profile to uniquely identify you. It's combined with data logged from other sources, which can be used to create a terrifyingly accurate profile on everything you do, which is how Microsoft and others predict your behavior.

You being OK with that is basically the same as being OK with a stalker following you around everywhere, even in your own home, watching everything you do at all times.
 

travm

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If you haven't turned off voice, inking and typing telemetry, then you can be rest assured any confidential information you've ever typed into any Windows 10 PC has been sent directly to Microsoft. Windows 10 has had a built-in keylogger since at least 2015 and Microsoft has been in hot water over it logging confidential information already. Even clicking the "off" switch doesn't disable it. And by extension, everything you say into the microphone is sent off too.
I would like some proof of this.
 

GiGaBiTe

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I would like some proof of this.

Microsoft literally states this in their support documentation, it's not my job to read you their EULA and feature descriptions on their support pages.

And the other part about them still collecting data when you turn logging off, it has again been well documented by users on their official support pages where feature and security updates have enabled telemetry again, requiring the user to go in and disable them. It has also been documented all over the web. Why do you think privacy tools like ShutUp10, DoNotSpy10, W10Privacy and other applications exist? It's a constant cat and mouse game.
 

travm

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
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Microsoft literally states this in their support documentation, it's not my job to read you their EULA and feature descriptions on their support pages.

And the other part about them still collecting data when you turn logging off, it has again been well documented by users on their official support pages where feature and security updates have enabled telemetry again, requiring the user to go in and disable them. It has also been documented all over the web. Why do you think privacy tools like ShutUp10, DoNotSpy10, W10Privacy and other applications exist? It's a constant cat and mouse game.
I have read some / most of this and nothing I read compares very directly to what you're saying.
 
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