alternative suggestions for MB/CPU/HBA/expanders

[erojiji]

hello all, first post here, and hopeing to get a bit of feedback on parts choice for my first large scale home server build from people with practical experiance. let me apologize ahead of time for my bad english and grammar, i am not a native english speaker ><

planned setup

2x norco 4020sata or 4220sas
1x standard 4u chassis

mobo undecided
cpu undecided

hba 3ware/lsi 9750-8i (jbod mode)

adapter to turn the internal 2xSFF-8087 mini-SAS to 2xSFF-8088 external

2x intel RES2SV240(1 for each norco case )

i plan to use a single port one the 9750-8i to each cases RES2SV240

OS 2008server

i will be useing flex raid in snapshot mode

drive sizes range from 1.5tb to 3tb (i was able to get 6 3tb drives before prices went through the roof, eventually all smaller drives will be swapped to 3tb) approx 68 tb total of drives after overhead

primary use is long term storage, with maximum of 1 streaming video to my HTPC/desktop when i want to dig out something to rewatch, new data will be stored on my desktop, and written to it probably once a month, with a snapshot done immediately after, will probably get a verification run every 2 weeks to combat bitrot and the reliabilty of older drives. system will be turned off more than it will be turned on

first question is power options for the norco cases.

i have used dual psu setups in the past via a modular plug that turns the second psu on with the first, and would like to use the same style system to turn on the 2 norco cases when the server is turned on (i am comfortanble with making the wire mods myself using a few modular plugs added to the back of the cases) since ive never dealt with this style setup before is it worth trying, or will it cause issues with the expander cards not powering up first? would i be better off installing a manual switch to turn on the norco casses first, then turn on the server after they have spun up?

second is about sizing, how much power do i "NEED" in the norco cases, assuming all 20 drives and the expander are turning on at the same time? (i have 2 550w psu's, but am concerned that they wont supply enough on the 12v for mass spinup ) i will be keeping the stock delta fans as well (rack will be in my basement, noise isnt an issue)

third, since im not really concerned about speed, is the $30 price difference betweent the 4020 and the 4220 worth trying to save some cash? (assuming for the 4020 i would need 5 sas to sata breakout cables, and for the 4220 5 sas to sas cables per case) is there any benifit to one over the other in reliablility/cost?

finally, my one delema is the mobo/cpu. i will be using a 4u case for the actual server, so i have a wide range of options

my only real requirement is onboard gigabit lan, some form of built in video so i dont have to add in a card, and the ability to add in another 9750-8i later down the road to handle 2 more expansion cases (anotherwords 2x pcie 8x/16x slots that will be happy with single/dual population) id like to keep the mobo/cpu cost under say $150-200, but if theirs cheaper options that are reliable thats even better my hard limit is $275 and wouldnt be able to spare more till after newyears

for the cpu, since it will mainly be used by flexraid parity operations what would be a good balance point? (system will have at least 4g ram but will go larger if the perfomance is worth the cost)

my timeframe is to have the parts here and ready to assemble over my cristmas vacation, the cases/cables will be picked up directly from norco (i live 3 miles from their warehouse)the psu's and other minor items will come from either fry's or microcenter(both within driving distance)

if i can find a local store with the mobo/cpu/etc it will be picked up as well, if not it will be ordered and have express shipped

ive been reading the forums here for quite a while, and the info here was my main reason for the parts ive chosen. any practical experiance/feedback i can get is greatly appriciated. i have a good amount of electrical skill and am comfortable building pc's, but this is my first foray into rackmount/server setups and have no experiance with sas at all.

 

[Dangman]

First and foremost, I'd highly recommend hitting up this site for info as the owner/editor did something similar to your plans:
http://www.servethehome.com/category/the-big-whs-30-drive-whs/

second is about sizing, how much power do i "NEED" in the norco cases, assuming all 20 drives and the expander are turning on at the same time? (i have 2 550w psu's, but am concerned that they wont supply enough on the 12v for mass spinup ) i will be keeping the stock delta fans as well (rack will be in my basement, noise isnt an issue)

It's largely dependent on what CPU + mobo you're planning on getting. However, I'd err on the side of caution go for a quality 650W PSU with 50A to 52A on the +12V rail for each of the cases.

third, since im not really concerned about speed, is the $30 price difference betweent the 4020 and the 4220 worth trying to save some cash? (assuming for the 4020 i would need 5 sas to sata breakout cables, and for the 4220 5 sas to sas cables per case) is there any benifit to one over the other in reliablility/cost?

With the 4220, you only have to connect 5 SAS cables to the SAS backplane per case. With the 4020, you would have to connect 20 SATA cables to the backplane. So yes, the extra $30 for the 4220 is worth it IMO since it'll be faster and easier to hook up and cable manage.

finally, my one delema is the mobo/cpu. i will be using a 4u case for the actual server, so i have a wide range of options

my only real requirement is onboard gigabit lan, some form of built in video so i dont have to add in a card, and the ability to add in another 9750-8i later down the road to handle 2 more expansion cases (anotherwords 2x pcie 8x/16x slots that will be happy with single/dual population) id like to keep the mobo/cpu cost under say $150-200, but if theirs cheaper options that are reliable thats even better my hard limit is $275 and wouldnt be able to spare more till after newyears

for the cpu, since it will mainly be used by flexraid parity operations what would be a good balance point? (system will have at least 4g ram but will go larger if the perfomance is worth the cost)

my timeframe is to have the parts here and ready to assemble over my cristmas vacation, the cases/cables will be picked up directly from norco (i live 3 miles from their warehouse)the psu's and other minor items will come from either fry's or microcenter(both within driving distance)

$275 hard limit does rule out server grade hardware I would think.

Since you live close to Microcenter, I recommend taking advantage of their in-store only 2500K + $50 off any Z68 or P67 motherboard deals. Since you want onboard video, go with any Asus, MSI, or Gigabyte Z68 mobo as that'll allow you to use the onboard video and take advantage of that $50 off deal. Here's their catalog for more info:
http://viewer.zmags.com/publication/7e47d029#/7e47d029/27

 

[erojiji]

thanks for the info danny, i ordered the 2 4220's and cables, will be picking those up this afternoon, and willcalled 2 CORSAIR 800w from microcenter (65A on single 12v rail ) since they are currenly 119 with rebate
http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0339915

for the mobo/cpu i think i worded it incorrectly, i meant for the cost to be for each, not as a single, (275 mobo + 275 cpu) for $550 total

also, thanks for the servethehome link, theres a HUGE amount of usefull information there!

any thoughts on the 9750-8i / intel RES2SV240 combination?

im trying to buy all new parts under warranty, and also trying to avoid needing a motherboard/power card in the 2 norco cases. the RES2SV240's have a standard 4 pin molex for power, and the exact port count i need per case (4 will be run to an adapter to external for connection to the lsi card, 20 for the internal drives)


i thought about buying the hp sas expanders, but im concerned about a few things, first, they are over $100 more new than the intel cards and require either a powerboard or a full motherboard to run. second, the whole firmware issue scares me, i dont have a way to update the firmware if needed without spending even more money on a card to do it with

the 9750-8i was chosen since it is a hba (i wont be using raid or using memory options so no need for a bbu/expensive raid features) with a 96 device limit. for now, it will be running 40 drives in the 2 norco cases, expanded as i need to to 80 with 2 more norco's. i tried to keep the cost under $500 for the card, but there didnt seem to be many straight sas hba's when i was looking around online, and most had features i would never use which i felt would be a waste of money. are there any other hba's/raid cards that support jbod that would be a better fit?

the server is mainly for archiving, my grandfather is dutch and was a huge film buff, he passed away last year, and i inherited his collection over 40,000 8mm and beta tapes he filmed, as well as many classic movies. i am slowly digitizing these, and sending copies out to friends and family on dvd, repacking them away, and keeping copies on disk for quick access (eventually i need to plan for an offsite backup method, but for now since the originals arent stored here i can re-rip if i have a failure/loss of data)

 

[Dangman]

willcalled 2 CORSAIR 800w from microcenter (65A on single 12v rail ) since they are currenly 119 with rebate
http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0339915

Not worth it. You can the significantly higher quality and higher amperaged Corsair 850TX V2 for $5 more:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139022

for the mobo/cpu i think i worded it incorrectly, i meant for the cost to be for each, not as a single, (275 mobo + 275 cpu) for $550 total

Oh. Oh that changes a few things.

The setup I'm starting to see pop up more and more now seems to be this Intel CPU + Supermicro mobo + Kingston RAM combination:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115083
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813182253
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820139262

any thoughts on the 9750-8i / intel RES2SV240 combination?

A bit pricey IMO for what you're planning on doing. Since you're only doing JBOD mode and using FlexRAID, I don't see the need for a RAID capable card.

the 9750-8i was chosen since it is a hba (i wont be using raid or using memory options so no need for a bbu/expensive raid features) with a 96 device limit. for now, it will be running 40 drives in the 2 norco cases, expanded as i need to to 80 with 2 more norco's. i tried to keep the cost under $500 for the card, but there didnt seem to be many straight sas hba's when i was looking around online, and most had features i would never use which i felt would be a waste of money. are there any other hba's/raid cards that support jbod that would be a better fit?

Yeah, I think this might be a better option:
$160 - Intel SASUC8I PCI-Ex8 SATA/SAS Controller Card

It officially supports up to 122 hard drives.

If you want a longer warranty, this card should also work (256 drive limit):
$250 - LSI SAS 9211-8i Controller Card

 

[erojiji]

i had looked at the intel SASUC8I before, but the lack of 3tb support for later upgrades makes it a no go

the 9211-8i is a great find that i overlooked, probably because newegg doesnt list the max drive support, ill try to find a local source in the morning before ordering online (nice thing about socal, you can source almost anything electronic related locally lol)

for the psu, i had chosen the 650w for the price,(the 850 was 189 after MIR) after reading this, i called back the sales rep i ordered from and asked if they would price match newegg and he agree'd so i was able to get the 850's locally for the same price (+$5 each since they add shipping to the price match >< )

i read up on the motherboard and it seems to be an ideal solution for me, especially the ipmi, means i dont have to go to the basement for anything short of a drive swap. with the relatively cheap cost of the ram, would i see any performance improvement going with 2 sets of the kingstons for a total of 16gb, or would it simply be overkill?

 

[Dangman]

i
the 9211-8i is a great find that i overlooked, probably because newegg doesnt list the max drive support, ill try to find a local source in the morning before ordering online (nice thing about socal, you can source almost anything electronic related locally lol)

Yeah I live in SoCal too so I know

for the psu, i had chosen the 650w for the price,(the 850 was 189 after MIR) after reading this, i called back the sales rep i ordered from and asked if they would price match newegg and he agree'd so i was able to get the 850's locally for the same price (+$5 each since they add shipping to the price match >< )

Still worth it

i read up on the motherboard and it seems to be an ideal solution for me, especially the ipmi, means i dont have to go to the basement for anything short of a drive swap. with the relatively cheap cost of the ram, would i see any performance improvement going with 2 sets of the kingstons for a total of 16gb, or would it simply be overkill?

It would be overkill but RAM is relatively cheap at this point in time. Up to you if you want to spend $80 now or spend more than that later on if your storage and server needs/use change

 

[erojiji]

i doubt i would rebuild this unless there was a serious string of hardware failures, i would be more likely to build an adittional system to fit the new needs

think that pretty much works out all the questions i had, now i just need to hit the local equipment auction/salvage places and find a 24-36u rack thats deep enough for the norco's, and hopefully a ups to go along with it, if not ill be frankenstiening together another ups powered by optima batteries again (my current setup for the desktop/servers is 5 cyberpower 1350avr's heavily modified and powered by 6 optima deep cycle batteries, nice 6 hour runtime lol)

 

[Dangman]

i doubt i would rebuild this unless there was a serious string of hardware failures, i would be more likely to build an adittional system to fit the new needs

Actually I meant spending more money later on on RAM upgrades for your current system.

 

[TCM]

If you're using JBOD mode anyway, trash the expensive RAID controller and get a simpler one as suggested, 9211-8i or any clone you can flash to a 9211-8i. IBM M1015 is cheap.

I strongly suggest not saving on the motherboard/CPU if you're spending so much on cases and disks already. Get a good one with ECC support and KVM-over-IP. Something like a Tyan S5512 or Supermicro X9SCA-F with a Xeon E3 is a pretty standard combination these days.

 

[Abula]

I second Danny suggestion, the SUPERMICRO MBD-X9SCM-F-O + Intel Xeon E3-1230 + Kingston ECC DDR3, is one of the best combos atm, have had very good expierence with it, just some minor issues, like using scythe pwm fans, the mobo ramps them to full and drops them down to 0 then again up, endless cycle, googling the issue it seems common with other supermicro mobos, i never really tried to much to fix it, as im using the fans on anther build so swap all fans with 3pin and been perfect ever since.

 

[erojiji]

thanks for the input guys, i went ahead and ordered the supermicro mobo and stuff today, and also got 8 gig total of ram since it was relatively cheap.

i also scored a used 36u chassis for free (+ a 12 pack of beer to help load it) from craigs list. its a bit to tall to fit where i plan to put it, but for free i figured i coud use it as trading material for a better suited one, or worst case, cut it down 12 inches and reweld it back together. ill post a few pics of it once i find where the hell i hid my camera ><

one more question, for my role as a low use storage server,would i see any benifit from using a ssd to put 2008 server on? (i can get a 1 year old ocz agility 2 120g from a friend that upgraded for $100, just not sure it would really make any significant difference.

i should note that the the 2008 server i have is not R2 (standard 1 server 5 cals) are there any benifits to buying a copy of R2? (i doubt i will ever get as far as learning/using virtualization)

hopefully i will be able to start the build thread next week

 

[Dangman]

one more question, for my role as a low use storage server,would i see any benifit from using a ssd to put 2008 server on? (i can get a 1 year old ocz agility 2 120g from a friend that upgraded for $100, just not sure it would really make any significant difference.

Not really IMO unless you're constantly loading software from that server. Even then I'd be hesitant in trusting my OS to an older OCZ SSD like that Agility 2.

 

[erojiji]

finally got some free time, heres the 36u rack i have at the moment, havent had much luck finding a 24u cheap/trade so am probably going to cut this down to fit if i dont find something smaller this week