AlphaCool Ready2Go Stacker HELP/ADVICE

[Maltese]

This is my first post and opportunity to get into water cooling.

My 1st Question: Is a LARGE Passive Radiator better than a smaller Active/Fan Radiator?

Please keep in mind I would to cool an AMD 4800+X2 & (2) 7800 GTX 512MB in SLI mode.

I know that I will have to add 2 more waterblocks for the gfx cards... with this information in mind - please take a look at the following 3 Stacker Ready2Go setups from AlphaCool.

Original Stacker w/PASSIVE SIDE:
http://www.alphacool.de/xt/product_...e/xt/product_info.php?products_id=3581&cPath=
Technical data:
Case: Coolermaster Stacker "Server"
CPU cooler: NexXxoS XP Rev.2
Mountings AMD XP, AMD 64 and Opteron, Intel 478 and Socket 775
Radiator: NexXxoS Pro II
Fan: 2x Alphacool 120x120x25mm 1200rpm
Pump: AGB Eheim 600 Station 230V
Hose: 10mm
Connections: fittings

1st Gen Stacker w/ (3) FAN+Active TOP: http://www.alphacool.de/xt/product_info.php?products_id=2190&cPath=
Technical data:
Case: Coolermaster Stacker Black
CPU cooler: NexXxoS XP Rev.2
Mountings AMD XP, AMD 64 and Opteron, Intel 478 and Socket 775
Radiator: NexXxoS Pro III
Fan: 3x Alphacool 120x120x25mm 1200rpm
Pump: AGB Eheim 600 Station 230V
Hose: 10mm
Connections: fittings

Bottom line...what would you buy and why?

Thank you very much!

-Malt

*LINKS FIXED*

 

[EnJoY120]

Where's the option for "none of the above"? Seriously, these german setups have an occasional good waterblock solution, but everything that they make is either unecessarily super restrictive, includes aluminum (corrosion), or uses ancient design techniques that are no longer considered good.

All german watercooling companies use really poor radiator designs and extremely anemic pumps with no head pressure and ridiculously low flow. Then they go and use aluminum elbow fittings wherever they can on their 1/4" ID tubing so that the flow in the loop is at about 0.1gpm. Here's a proposed setup that would fit nicely into any large tower case, such as the CM Stacker.

CPU: Swiftech Storm
GPU: 2x Danger Den Maze 4 Acetel's or Cooltechnica AquaXtreme MP1's or Swiftech MCW55's
Radiator: Thermochill PA120.3 or PA120.2 w/ Yate Loon 120x25mm fans for silence or Sanyo Denki SanAce 120x38mm fans for performance.
Pump: Swiftech MCP655 or Danger Den D5 (same pump) Or an Iwaki MD20RZT if you really have cash and don't mind using an AC pump.
Tubing: 1/2" ID Tygon or 7/16" ID Tygon (better bends, no performance loss)
Additive: Zerex Super Coolant (about 5% to distilled water) or Swiftech HydrX.

There ya go, that would be the alphacool or any other german setup by around 5-7c under load.

 

[DFI Daishi]

@maltese: your links do not work.

also: do you live in an area that uses 230 V power? all of the units that you have put up are rated for use at 230, and this is a dominantly american forum.

yes, a small active rad will in most cases outperform a large passive rad. if you run a good sized rad, you can have very low noise levels and good performance.

a quiet performer that you might want to keep in mind: http://www.thermochill.com/pa1202.php with a few 20 db fans.......not silent, but below the ambient noise level of an average household room.

i am also not at all a fan of this style of gear, but if it happends to be "domestic" for you, i totally understand avoiding importing whenever possible. if you're looking for looks, this stuff is probably right up your alley. performance? not so much.

 

[sprocket]

Please fix the links, I'd love to see this stuff.

 

[topcat989]

Please fix the links, I'd love to see this stuff.

same here

 

[Erasmus354]

Please fix the links, I'd love to see this stuff.

Is it really that hard to find it yourself? http://www.alphacool.de/xt/index.php?cPath=299

 

[R1ckCa1n]

i am also not at all a fan of this style of gear, but if it happends to be "domestic" for you, i totally understand avoiding importing whenever possible. if you're looking for looks, this stuff is probably right up your alley. performance? not so much.

Actually the Alphacool NexXxoS performs quite well against most 1/2" based blocks according to the reviews.

 

[R1ckCa1n]

Where's the option for "none of the above"? Seriously, these german setups have an occasional good waterblock solution, but everything that they make is either unecessarily super restrictive, includes aluminum (corrosion), or uses ancient design techniques that are no longer considered good.

All german watercooling companies use really poor radiator designs and extremely anemic pumps with no head pressure and ridiculously low flow. Then they go and use aluminum elbow fittings wherever they can on their 1/4" ID tubing so that the flow in the loop is at about 0.1gpm. Here's a proposed setup that would fit nicely into any large tower case, such as the CM Stacker.

CPU: Swiftech Storm
GPU: 2x Danger Den Maze 4 Acetel's or Cooltechnica AquaXtreme MP1's or Swiftech MCW55's
Radiator: Thermochill PA120.3 or PA120.2 w/ Yate Loon 120x25mm fans for silence or Sanyo Denki SanAce 120x38mm fans for performance.
Pump: Swiftech MCP655 or Danger Den D5 (same pump) Or an Iwaki MD20RZT if you really have cash and don't mind using an AC pump.
Tubing: 1/2" ID Tygon or 7/16" ID Tygon (better bends, no performance loss)
Additive: Zerex Super Coolant (about 5% to distilled water) or Swiftech HydrX.

There ya go, that would be the alphacool or any other german setup by around 5-7c under load.

The point of these "euro" based systems is not HIGH FLOW. If that is what the OP wanted, he would have ask for a 1/2" based system. Clearly he did not.

And please show me data about your performance statement of 5-7c under load. Enlighten all of us.

 

[Erasmus354]

Actually the Alphacool NexXxoS performs quite well against most 1/2" based blocks according to the reviews.

Realizing of course that the Alphacool NexXxoS is NOT a low flow block. In fact quite the opposite.

However, one can see that contrary to conventional wisdom the Alphacool is NOT OPTIMIZED for loops with low flow rates (such as the Eheim 1046 can provide). In such a loop the Swiftech MCW6000-A would actually be a better choice. As flow rates increase with larger pumps, however, the NexXxoS XP becomes extremely competitive.

 

[Maltese]

Where's the option for "none of the above"? Seriously, these german setups have an occasional good waterblock solution, but everything that they make is either unecessarily super restrictive, includes aluminum (corrosion), or uses ancient design techniques that are no longer considered good.

The NexXxos XP .2 Waterblock is copper with Polished Nickel plating on the outside. Where is the aluminum?

The pump is an eheim which I have heard are very good quality.

Thermochill Radiator was my choice but do not have comparison details on both.

Please elaborate on what you mean...

do you live in an area that uses 230 V power? all of the units that you have put up are rated for use at 230, and this is a dominantly american forum.

I live in the states, there is an equivelant pump that runs @ 12v that could be used instead of the 230v

 

[DFI Daishi]

The NexXxos XP .2 Waterblock is copper with Polished Nickel plating on the outside. Where is the aluminum?

eh.....not my point, i'm not going to try and defend it.

The pump is an eheim which I have heard are very good quality.

they are very good quality and long lived aquarium pumps. they have a long standing reputation for being just that in both the pond and aquarium industry. that and the fact that they are quiet is why they were adopted by the watercooling community back in the day. however, they are freaking huge and don't generate much head pressure, which is usually the limiting factor for pump performance in a watercooling loop. a tiny little DC pump like the laing DDC gets twice the head pressure in a small and silent package.

Thermochill Radiator was my choice but do not have comparison details on both.

one frequent gripe that performance enthusiasts, such as myself, have is that there is little or no reputable, english-language testing/review of these products. a lot of the comments you we end up making are based on similar designs that were used domestically in the past, and were abandoned because they did not perform as well as what has replaced them. multi pass rads do not work as well as single or dual pass rads for cooling at temperatures near ambient. if we were dealing with 120C oil, or something similar, the multi pass rad works better than dual pass, however that's not what we are working with.

http://www.overclockers.com/articles778/ is a review of thermochill's previous lineup, which the new PA series outperforms with low powered fans.

I live in the states, there is an equivelant pump that runs @ 12v that could be used instead of the 230v

cool, i was just looking at the kits "as is" and i noticed that.

 

[WarlordBB]

All german watercooling companies use really poor radiator designs and extremely anemic pumps with no head pressure and ridiculously low flow. Then they go and use aluminum elbow fittings wherever they can on their 1/4" ID tubing so that the flow in the loop is at about 0.1gpm.

Cool, I can disregard everything that comes from a whole country! Makes my buying decisions easier.

What about them brits, can we diss everything they make too. Heck, let's just keep it simple, if it ain't U.S. and 1/2", not worth the time to test....

 

[EnJoY120]

Ok guys, since you all like to bash my comments as being biased without making any of your own, let me elaborate.

R1ckCa1n: You say the point of these euro systems is not high flow? That's exactly their problem. Flow is most certainly not everything, however you need to maintain a balance. Most of the good euro companies (alphacool, aquacomputer, to name a few) use the tried and true micro-channel design for their waterblocks, very similar to what Cooltechnica's latest block uses. This design performs very well overall, however the micro-channels alone are extremely restrictive, and slow down flow severely. The design has been shown with the NeXXoS XP and the AquaXtreme block to improve with higher pressure pumps, meaning they receive more flow because less is lost due to higher head pressure. Euro companies use this micro channel design in almost every block they make (gpu, chipset, cpu) and yet they then go combine them with tiny tubing lowering flow, small eheim pumps that us westerners dropped a long time ago due to their inadequate head pressure, tiny fittings on the blocks, elbow fittings and right angle fittings that act as walls for water, and worse of all, their blocks themselves have chambers so narrow and thing that even if their weren't micro channels, it would still take a pump with 10" feet or more of head pressure just to get through it and maintain a gpm of 2.0.

The radiators these german companies use as a whole are generall models with rounded tubes, as opposed to the flat tubes used in modern radiators. The fins are also generally not optimized for the airflow they use (very low cfm fans), as they usually use a high fin density which is only good for high pressure fannage. Flat tubes dissipate the heat better to the fins than the round tubes.

All I'm saying is that they aren't balanced in their design. They design blocks that are generally good for removing heat efficiently, but then combine them with pumps and fittings that are not optimal for the architecture. The AquaXtreme block proves this by besting the NeXXos with it's very similar architecture but larger fittings and greater size 'chamber' for lack of a better term.

My temps I gave were admittedly a guess, but take 1-2c for better block design, 1c for balanced pump, 2-3c for better radiator design, and 1c for optimal tubing, and you have a minimum of 5c benefit over a common euro setup.

Maltese: I never said anything specifically about the NeXXoS XP, so I'm not sure why you targeted it as an argument against my statement. But none the less, you're correct, and this is primarily why the NeXXoS has been one of the few eastern designed blocks that has been adopted into western watercooling loops. Non-corrosive, excellent performance with our pumps and radiators, and can even accept larger fittings for our tubing.
Eheims are very reliable pumps, and the 1050 for example is also extremely quiet. However, the heat dump and size of the pump itself is not proportional to it's performance. The gph on them is not terrible, however their head pressure is, and in modern setups, western or eastern, pressure is everything when it comes to pumps. This is why the Iwaki MD20RZT, and to a greater extent, the RD30 (or my pump) are the best of the best for pumping power. The Eheim 1250 for example dumps anywhere between 15-20w of heat and pushes out close to 400gph @ 6ft of head pressure. The Laing D5 (MCP655), puts out similar flow but at around 12ft of head pressure for almost the same heat dump and half the physical size. Laing pumps are also just as reliable as Eheims, if not more so. This is why western watercoolers dropped the eheims along with their maze 2's long ago.

WarlordBB: Since you merely mocked my post without making any argument on your own, I don't really have much to say. However, I can say that it was not my intention in anyway to "disregard" as you say, a whole country. I was meaning to disregard poor watercooling practices as a whole. 1/2" tubing isn't the only way, but with the optimal pump for the blocks every good company is creating these days (from swiftech to alpahcool), 7/16" tubing or greater is the optimal size to use without restricting flow or pressure from the optimal pump. And if you don't understand why I keep saying optimal, read what I wrote to the two other folks above you and you'll hopefully understand.

 

[R1ckCa1n]

My temps I gave were admittedly a guess, but take 1-2c for better block design, 1c for balanced pump, 2-3c for better radiator design, and 1c for optimal tubing, and you have a minimum of 5c benefit over a common euro setup.

Lets speculate more, shall we?

My suggestion is before you go out and completely bash a product you should maybe try it out. That is the problem with this forum; too many people who will take peices of information and try to apply it to a solution, which is impossible.

 

[Erasmus354]

EnJoY120 : While I agree with much of what you said about unbalanced design as a whole system, you make a few bad assumptions. While the microchannel design excells with higher flows, it performs alright at lower flow levels as well. You also far overestimate the temperature differences, 5-7C is A LOT in the watercooling world.

 

[EnJoY120]

I know 5-7c is a lot. But that's why I showed where I was getting the temps from, from each place in the loop. I took those numbers from the numbers I've seen from real test results. Maybe I should get Cathar, Marci, and Maxxxracer in here for some back up..

 

[DFI Daishi]

I know 5-7c is a lot. But that's why I showed where I was getting the temps from, from each place in the loop. I took those numbers from the numbers I've seen from real test results. Maybe I should get Cathar, Marci, and Maxxxracer in here for some back up..

you could, but it wouldn't change the opinions of hardcore pro-german members.

when the real authorities break it down, these people ususally fall back on the argument that it doesn't make any real difference, and that these german products are "somehow" able to deliver equal performance when it comes to overclocking. they talk about elegance, and point to products like the aquaero, and how much good it does them.

frankly, i wholely disagree with all of that nonsense. those who didn't get better overclocks with improved cooling should realize that they were being held back by some other aspect, and rather than bashing higher performance cooling, should consider taking measures to remedy their system's shortcomings.

at the end of the day, fans of german equipment like the way that it looks, and don't care about the performance aspect.

now, back on topic.......

using a thermochill PA120.2 rad, you could probably get performance per noise equivalent to the 3 fan rad used in the pre-made kit. the advantage being: you could put that into the existing twin 120mm fan mounts on a stacker 820. i'm not going to bother making an suggestion of using 1/2" tubing, because you probably care too much about looks to use it, but 3/8" thin walled tubing is of a similar size to the 8mm ID tubing that many fans of import equipment use. since the laing DDC uses 3/8" fittings natively, and you can pretty easily set up the nexos XP to accept appriopriate fittings, it is a pretty good fit for what you want. even if you insist on using german blocks, using them in combination with a pump that has some good head pressure will give you better performance without any penalty other than having some non-german equipment in the loop.

 

[R1ckCa1n]

I know 5-7c is a lot. But that's why I showed where I was getting the temps from, from each place in the loop. I took those numbers from the numbers I've seen from real test results. Maybe I should get Cathar, Marci, and Maxxxracer in here for some back up..

Bring them.... I don't think any of those guys will quantify temps based on a mix of hardware never tested together to validate such assumptions; that is just ass. I suggest you always actually test a configuration prior to making HUGE assumptions.

 

[R1ckCa1n]

you could, but it wouldn't change the opinions of hardcore pro-german members.

when the real authorities break it down, these people ususally fall back on the argument that it doesn't make any real difference, and that these german products are "somehow" able to deliver equal performance when it comes to overclocking. they talk about elegance, and point to products like the aquaero, and how much good it does them.

frankly, i wholely disagree with all of that nonsense. those who didn't get better overclocks with improved cooling should realize that they were being held back by some other aspect, and rather than bashing higher performance cooling, should consider taking measures to remedy their system's shortcomings.

at the end of the day, fans of german equipment like the way that it looks, and don't care about the performance aspect.

now, back on topic.......

using a thermochill PA120.2 rad, you could probably get performance per noise equivalent to the 3 fan rad used in the pre-made kit. the advantage being: you could put that into the existing twin 120mm fan mounts on a stacker 820. i'm not going to bother making an suggestion of using 1/2" tubing, because you probably care too much about looks to use it, but 3/8" thin walled tubing is of a similar size to the 8mm ID tubing that many fans of import equipment use. since the laing DDC uses 3/8" fittings natively, and you can pretty easily set up the nexos XP to accept appriopriate fittings, it is a pretty good fit for what you want. even if you insist on using german blocks, using them in combination with a pump that has some good head pressure will give you better performance without any penalty other than having some non-german equipment in the loop.

Explain why actual users are telling you there is not a performance loss? I guess some people don't like to come out of denial. Oh yeah, it hasn't been on a die simulator to tell you how well it will work on a computer......

 

[DFI Daishi]

Explain why actual users are telling you there is not a performance loss? I guess some people don't like to come out of denial. Oh yeah, it hasn't been on a die simulator to tell you how well it will work on a computer......

well now....not that i'm suprised by this retort, however, a review of how well the hardware cools DOES have to be on a die simulator to tell me how well it really cools, since a computer's diode has bugger all of accuracy.......so for review purposes, yeah, that's exactly what i want.

there have been more than a few cases where people upgraded their cooling, got some better temps, and the hardware didn't OC any better. they then blamed the cooling for not helping anything and left it at that. for myself, i think that's that time to start experimenting with better mosfet cooling, hacked bioses, volt mods, cherry picked chips, etc. OCing isn't always temp limited. once you have eliminated temps, then look elsewhere for ways to push farther. don't just leave temps as another aspect of the system that might or might not be holding you back.

so, do you have any retort to my comments regarding possible hardware selections? since there is someone commenting pretty harshly regarding comprimising performance already, i thought that i would try to make a middle ground proposal. what do you think of that part of the post? does it meet with your aproval and delicate sense of aesthetics? do you reject them because the laing DDC is not of a sufficiently pure anglo-saxon bloodline?

 

[Derrick70]

i like the first one alot. i never had a thing for the stacker case but i like that one.

 

[Maltese]

at the end of the day, fans of german equipment like the way that it looks, and don't care about the performance aspect.

Quite the contrary... I am all about performance and could care less about looks inside the case. Not to sound cute... but I'm more interested in fraggin' online than looking inside my case.

I am not pro German/European or American. I really want the BEST so that I don't regret my watercooling purchase when I add (2) 7800 GTX 512MB cards into the water cooled loop.

I just saw a possibility to get a good cooling system already complete (i.e. Ready2Go Stacker from AlphaCool).

If the Swiftech Storm, PA 120.2 Rad from Thermochill, a good pump and 1/2" or 3/8" is better (I heard 1/2" is better especially for cooling 2 GPU + CPU).

That is why I came here for opinions based on personal and expert experiences. So that I do not make a mistake or get the thumbs up that it is a good purchase.

I appreciate everyone's input... and so far the responses seem to sway me to the Swiftech Storm/Thermochill Rad solution.

-Malt

 

[DFI Daishi]

Quite the contrary... I am all about performance and could care less about looks inside the case. Not to sound cute... but I'm more interested in fraggin' online than looking inside my case.

I am not pro German/European or American. I really want the BEST so that I don't regret my watercooling purchase when I add (2) 7800 GTX 512MB cards into the water cooled loop.

I just saw a possibility to get a good cooling system already complete (i.e. Ready2Go Stacker from AlphaCool).

If the Swiftech Storm, PA 120.2 Rad from Thermochill, a good pump and 1/2" or 3/8" is better (I heard 1/2" is better especially for cooling 2 GPU + CPU).

That is why I came here for opinions based on personal and expert experiences. So that I do not make a mistake or get the thumbs up that it is a good purchase.

I appreciate everyone's input... and so far the responses seem to sway me to the Swiftech Storm/Thermochill Rad solution.

-Malt

i am sorry for mistaking your goals and intentions.

one consideration strongly in favour of the german solutions is that they offer the option of cooling the chipset more easily than any solutions from swiftech or dangerden, on SLI equiped boards, if noise from the chipset fan is a problem for you.

other than that, if performance is your goal, EnJoY120 is right on the money with his equipment listing.

 

[Erasmus354]

The Alphacool setup is not entirely bad, just as most Euro setups aren't entirely bad. There is a lot of merit in the design behind the waterblocks in european loops. The problem I have with european setups is in their usual choice of pumps, and their reluctance to use tubing larger than 6mm. When you are prohibiting your cooling performance by using a weak pump, when stronger pumps are available for roughly the same price, with similar acoustic characteristics is just thick headed. I think the same way about limiting your performance by using dinky tubing and restrictive elbows. These concerns only come into play when you are trying to get a performance setup mind you, if you dont care about performance as a number one priority than these things dont matter.


All that being said, if what you want is performance, and you live in the states. Then your best option (as stated above) is going to be to pick up a Swiftech Storm, Laing D5 pump, a good 120.2 radiator and all the other accessories you need.

 

[R1ckCa1n]

I question how someone can claim 5-7c worse temps and this is what results?

well now....not that i'm suprised by this retort, however, a review of how well the hardware cools DOES have to be on a die simulator to tell me how well it really cools, since a computer's diode has bugger all of accuracy.......so for review purposes, yeah, that's exactly what i want.

Then get back to me when all of these configurations are tested so we have "fact" instead of this fantasy land guessing performance. Funnest thing is the people on this forum with the most stuborn opinions are the one who don't have watercooling or can't overclock; and you know who your are guys! Go figure.

there have been more than a few cases where people upgraded their cooling, got some better temps, and the hardware didn't OC any better. they then blamed the cooling for not helping anything and left it at that. for myself, i think that's that time to start experimenting with better mosfet cooling, hacked bioses, volt mods, cherry picked chips, etc. OCing isn't always temp limited. once you have eliminated temps, then look elsewhere for ways to push farther. don't just leave temps as another aspect of the system that might or might not be holding you back.

Makes me question if they are watercooling for silence or max overclock. If you want the best of both worlds that crap (in your opinion) german stuff tops the list. I would be pretty pissed to replace a fully functional system based on peoples opinions on this forum to find they don't even have said equipment.

so, do you have any retort to my comments regarding possible hardware selections? since there is someone commenting pretty harshly regarding comprimising performance already, i thought that i would try to make a middle ground proposal. what do you think of that part of the post? does it meet with your aproval and delicate sense of aesthetics? do you reject them because the laing DDC is not of a sufficiently pure anglo-saxon bloodline?

Actually I looked at using the laing DDC but it is too loud for me.

 

[R1ckCa1n]

The Alphacool setup is not entirely bad, just as most Euro setups aren't entirely bad. There is a lot of merit in the design behind the waterblocks in european loops. The problem I have with european setups is in their usual choice of pumps, and their reluctance to use tubing larger than 6mm. When you are prohibiting your cooling performance by using a weak pump, when stronger pumps are available for roughly the same price, with similar acoustic characteristics is just thick headed. I think the same way about limiting your performance by using dinky tubing and restrictive elbows. These concerns only come into play when you are trying to get a performance setup mind you, if you dont care about performance as a number one priority than these things dont matter.


All that being said, if what you want is performance, and you live in the states. Then your best option (as stated above) is going to be to pick up a Swiftech Storm, Laing D5 pump, a good 120.2 radiator and all the other accessories you need.

Great post although you don't understand the goals in euro setups. I guess you have to own one to understand.

 

[EnJoY120]

Bring them.... I don't think any of those guys will quantify temps based on a mix of hardware never tested together to validate such assumptions; that is just ass. I suggest you always actually test a configuration prior to making HUGE assumptions.

If you had any idea who those people even were to watercooling, you would eat your words. You need to start reading real watercooling forums, procooling and xtremesystems watercooling. ocforums and ocau sometimes too.

 

[EnJoY120]

Great post although you don't understand the goals in euro setups. I guess you have to own one to understand.

It's not about what the goals are. My whole argument has nothing to do with what their goals are. My argument is about the flaws of their setups and why my suggested setup would perform noticably better and be more reliable.

 

[DFI Daishi]

If you had any idea who those people even were to watercooling, you would eat your words. You need to start reading real watercooling forums, procooling and xtremesystems watercooling. ocforums and ocau sometimes too.

we all know who cathar is. he posts around here as well. r1ck denies that anything other than testing in a real setup can accurately provide a measure of a system's performance.

remember that crack he directed at me about running a block off of a heat die?

 

[Derrick70]

It's not about what the goals are. My whole argument has nothing to do with what their goals are. My argument is about the flaws of their setups and why my suggested setup would perform noticably better and be more reliable.

can you tell me why my set up is not as reliable than a high flow system?

 

[R1ckCa1n]

If you had any idea who those people even were to watercooling, you would eat your words. You need to start reading real watercooling forums, procooling and xtremesystems watercooling. ocforums and ocau sometimes too.

Lets see, I have bought two blocks directly from Stew himself, have been a member of procooling since 2002, ocfourms since 2001, and ocau since 2003. I have ran every block on the market through my setups (minus DD crap for personal reasons) and tend to trust my results versus anything in a completely controlled environment. Granted I love the reviews but that doesn't take into account how well the block cools the hotspots on CPU's, how different RAM/Power Supplies/CPU's are affected by blocks and temps.

You might be e-book smart, but you for sure have not even tried 1/2 of what you talk about. We have a lot of these guys on this forum.

 

[WarlordBB]

It's not about what the goals are. My whole argument has nothing to do with what their goals are. My argument is about the flaws of their setups and why my suggested setup would perform noticably better and be more reliable.

If you had of said to the OP, "here's my suggested setup and it will perform noticeably better", I wouldn't have mocked you.

I mocked you because you _did_ dis _all_ German watercooling except for the occasional decent block and then pulled something from your ass to support your argument.

Heck, I agree with you on several points, I wouldn't use _any_ German rad that I've seen (not saying there aren't good ones). I also won't use most of the German fittings that I've seen, they're unnecessarily restrictive. I use 100% Legris.

I _completely_ disagree with your notion that _all_ German watercooling is, for all intents and purposes, useless.

Furthermore, if you had of used "optimal" at least 50% as much in your original post as you did in your retort, I probably wouldn't have mocked you either.

German/US and large/small bore issues aside, I stand by my opinion that your original first post deserved to be mocked.

 

[WarlordBB]

If you had any idea who those people even were to watercooling, you would eat your words. You need to start reading real watercooling forums, procooling and xtremesystems watercooling. ocforums and ocau sometimes too.

Aren't you the pompus one tonight.

Not only are you going to put words in these people's mouth suggesting they would 100% agree with you on all points, but you somehow know that R1ck reads _only_ OCP?



I'm not trying to picks fights, I promise, but you certainly are asking to be mocked.

 

[WarlordBB]

Lets see, I have bought two blocks directly from Stew himself, have been a member of procooling since 2002, ocfourms since 2001, and ocau since 2003. I have ran every block on the market through my setups (minus DD crap for personal reasons) and tend to trust my results versus anything in a completely controlled environment. Granted I love the reviews but that doesn't take into account how well the block cools the hotspots on CPU's, how different RAM/Power Supplies/CPU's are affected by blocks and temps.

You might be e-book smart, but you for sure have not even tried 1/2 of what you talk about. We have a lot of these guys on this forum.

And I know you frequent XS too, as do I (and believe it or not, somehow I managed a long time ago to find all the other places Enjoy120 mentioned even with my blinders on).

Tell you what Enjoy120, I'll stop the bickering completely and I'll wager you this:

If you can get cathar to post here that I can't use some German parts with lower flow and smaller bore and still have effective enough cooling to overclock (not optimal, effective), I'll never use another German watercooling component ever again.

 

[EnJoY120]

And I know you frequent XS too, as do I (and believe it or not, somehow I managed a long time ago to find all the other places Enjoy120 mentioned even with my blinders on).

Tell you what Enjoy120, I'll stop the bickering completely and I'll wager you this:

If you can get cathar to post here that I can't use some German parts with lower flow and smaller bore and still have effective enough cooling to overclock (not optimal, effective), I'll never use another German watercooling component ever again.

Not even I would deny that anything that cools as well or better than the stock cooler is effective for overclocking, that would be untrue. However, what is optimal? That is what I am getting at.

 

[EnJoY120]

can you tell me why my set up is not as reliable than a high flow system?

Don't know what your setup is. By assuming it's the average german setup loaded with aluminum fittings and tops and barbs, it'll corrode like a bastard within months. There's your unreliability.

 

[EnJoY120]

and tend to trust my results versus anything in a completely controlled environment.

This is why I can't argue with you anymore. You can't even see the flaws in your own logic, nevermind the flaws in your 'testbed'.

 

[Derrick70]

Don't know what your setup is. By assuming it's the average german setup loaded with aluminum fittings and tops and barbs, it'll corrode like a bastard within months. There's your unreliability.

hum corrode with in months? i have pics dating back to a year ago brass and bare aluminum will corrode, but i have yet to see a bare aluminum block. you need to study a lil bit more before you open your mouth about some thing you know nothing about.

 

[EnJoY120]

hum corrode with in months? i have pics dating back to a year ago brass and bare aluminum will corrode, but i have yet to see a bare aluminum block. you need to study a lil bit more before you open your mouth about some thing you know nothing about.

What are you talking about? Where in in my entire history of posting did I ever mention anything about a bare aluminum block? Seriously kid, I've forgotten more about watercooling than you'll ever know in your life. </anger>

 

[Pooky]

You don't have to use 6mm ID... 8mm is a viable choice and is common in a lot of "German" setups. Alphacool uses G1/4" (1/4"BSPP) threads, so you can switch them to something bigger if you want.

The second Alphacool system has a triple radiator and it's not a coiled tube/fin variety - it's like a Black Ice Xtreme. The NexXxos XP is a very good block! All you'd have to do for "performance" is use a different 12v pump, something like a Laing DDC and for ease of use, a DDC with an included plexi filltank.

Here's Pro Coolings Interactive waterblock testing chart: http://www.procooling.com/index.php?func=articles&disp=131

The Alphacool NexXxos XP is an itty bit better than the LR Cascade SS, better than all of DD's blocks, better than the Storm G4 at lower flow rates and then, loses at higher flow. The G5 is an itty bitty better at lower flow, and better at higher flow. That probably makes the Swiftech one better than the XP by a good margin. There is a difference in price though, but if you have to import the XP, it might even out. Keep in mind that the Storm would be fine with 8mm tubing since it was designed with that as a minimum.