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Alpha Protocol Discussion Here:

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Sorry about the incoming deluge of questions.

You got the PC or Console version?

PC

IF PC: Is there much random stuttering?

There isn't though the market place where you buy weapons is kind of slow.

IF PC: Are there many of those "out of nowhere" loading screens popping up during a level?

There isn't any loading screens out of nowhere, just a loading icon on the top right, with my specs it never slowed me down, less then a second of loading really.

How are the mini-games in your opinion? How does the difficulty scale on em? I saw em in action on live feeds and they look confusing AND plentiful. But that's just seeing someone else do em, whats your opinion on them?

The mini games aren't confusing, the only one that I didn't like was the hacking one because in my opinion when you move the box around it was a bit slow, and yes they do get harder further into the game.

Does the AI change much when you increase the difficulty setting?

I played on Normal, and found the AI good. If you don't have the right stats in sneak or you have body armor that is noisy it will be tough sneaking behind guards. What I think people don't like is that they expect Splinter Cell out of the game, but this isn't Splinter Cell. Everything is stat based which sometimes make the AI look dumb but it isn't bad, and the game wasn't exactly easy either. For example in older RPG's if you have high sneak you can go past guards that should see you but don't. On Normal for example, one of the bosses in Moscow took me 8 or so tries.

How long did it take you to finish?

It took me around 25 hours or so. I spent time actually looking around and reading the dossiers and everything though.

Have you cleared it more than once?

I have not cleared it more than once, but I do want to replay it just do see the different outcomes in the game.

Again, sorry about the Deluge of questions. I really wanted Alpha Protocol but I'm gonna play it safe for now and wait for more opinions and reviews.
 
Mass Effect or not, I hate resorting to randomized math formulas to determine whether I hit or not. Leave that stuff for the old RPG's when old technology couldn't render realistic 3d environments. I don't care about it being Mass Effect, but having everything based on stats devoid of any user skill is not very fun.

Having said that, I'm rooting for Obsidian's success. They have a certain quality that no other current game developer has. Glad to know the writing was well done. As usual, Obsidian's story writing makes up for their weaknesses. I don't care for the spy genre of this game, nor for purely stats based RPG, but this is Obsidian's writing; I have to try this game some time. Maybe at the bargain bin. This definitely looks like it's not my type of game, but with Obsidian making it, I'm sure I'll enjoy it.
 
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Parmenides said:
Mass Effect or not, I hate resorting to randomized math formulas to determine whether I hit or not. Leave that stuff for the old RPG's when old technology couldn't render realistic 3d environments. I don't care about it being Mass Effect, but having everything based on stats devoid of any user skill is not very fun.

Having said that, I'm rooting for Obsidian's success. They have a certain quality that no other current game developer has. Glad to know the writing was well done. As usual, Obsidian's story writing makes up for their weaknesses. I don't care for the spy genre of this game, nor for purely stats based RPG, but this is Obsidian's writing; I have to try this game some time. Maybe at the bargain bin.
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Then you really shouldn't be playing RPG's in the first place. This is the only reason why the game is getting bad reviews because they really don't know what a real CRPG is in the first place. Hell even Deus Ex was more RPG like then RPGs of day, and Deus Ex wasn't even one.
 
Banko said:
Then you really shouldn't be playing RPG's in the first place. This is the only reason why the game is getting bad reviews because they really don't know what a real CRPG is in the first place. Hell even Deus Ex was more RPG like then RPGs of day, and Deus Ex wasn't even one.
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Hey, I loved NWN, NWN2, Baldur's Gate 2 despite the mechanics.

If I were a reviewer, and AP plays out like I imagine, I most certainly would not give it a bad review because of the stats based mechanics. It would still get a great review. I wouldn't let my preferences on combat mechanics to cloud my review. I wouldn't review them on something they never attempted to do.
 
Re: Mini games

Are their stats that you can boost for yourself to help out with these? Hacking skills and so forth? I would assume so but I'd like to know for sure. :)
 
Q-BZ said:
Re: Mini games

Are their stats that you can boost for yourself to help out with these? Hacking skills and so forth? I would assume so but I'd like to know for sure. :)
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Yes but all they do is increase the time that you have for the mini games. You can also skip them if you have EMP grenades on you. There are also armor mods that increase the time as well.
 
Banko said:
Yes but all they do is increase the time that you have for the mini games. You can also skip them if you have EMP grenades on you. There are also armor mods that increase the time as well.
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Good.

Or if it really gets desperate that's what a trainer is for. Sometimes you just have to get around bad game mechanics and bad game design.
 
Yeah, there's a trainer that does just that in addition to making the aiming much like a standard third person shooter, so it's not determined by dice rolls.
 
Q-BZ said:
Heh, I looked around. You're not the only one. That's sad. Doesn't bode well at all.






http://www.vgrevolution.com/2010/06/alpha-protocol/




^^ This just sounds terrible outright. I have no patience for this sort of thing at all.

Obviously you'll have to correspond the following to the PC but you get the idea.


This makes me not want to open the box and send it right back when this game gets here. Reject delivery.

It shipped so I can't cancel the order but I have no patience for this sort of thing at all. None. I run away from this kind of stuff. It's bad gaming any way you cut it.


I'm definitely getting that rushed botched vibe when I see and hear complaints like yours which are already quite common out there on the 'net and in some of these reviews.
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Yeah I went back into the game and tried a few more times until I got it. The moving code kind of causes me eyes to go a bit buggy making it hard to find the one that isn't moving. So for every single hack attempt I've made its taken 3 or 4 tries.

The rest of the game isn't bad, just that one mini-game. Its not a great game by any stretch, but I'm having fun. The gunplay downright sucks ass however and the game is fairly ugly in spots. AI is retarded, but that's common. I've found it more effective to rush guys and beat the crap out of them over trying to shoot them. Its quicker and the AI doesn't know how to react to it.
 
AceCR42 said:
Yeah, there's a trainer that does just that in addition to making the aiming much like a standard third person shooter, so it's not determined by dice rolls.
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Gotta love PC gaming. Make a good game even better. It's rare when I play a game that isn't modded out. ..... I wonder what can be modded with this.... this is Unreal Engine, right?
 
Parmenides said:
Gotta love PC gaming. Make a good game even better. It's rare when I play a game that isn't modded out. ..... I wonder what can be modded with this.... this is Unreal Engine, right?
Click to expand...

Outside of UT3 no UE3 game has been modable.
 
eh, decent games would be able to use both stats and skills for shooting.
skill will specify being able to aim at a target quickly, preferably for a headshot
stats would be for other intangible things,
like crosshair float (breathing)
kick and recoil compensation
speed with which to zoom in or out
this other stuff just sounds off.
 
Derangel said:
Outside of UT3 no UE3 game has been modable.
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Not modding proper, but there's been all sorts of tricks that can be done with UE3.

jiminator said:
eh, decent games would be able to use both stats and skills for shooting.
skill will specify being able to aim at a target quickly, preferably for a headshot
stats would be for other intangible things,
like crosshair float (breathing)
kick and recoil compensation
speed with which to zoom in or out
this other stuff just sounds off.
Click to expand...

Much agreed.
 
jiminator said:
eh, decent games would be able to use both stats and skills for shooting.
skill will specify being able to aim at a target quickly, preferably for a headshot
stats would be for other intangible things,
like crosshair float (breathing)
kick and recoil compensation
speed with which to zoom in or out
this other stuff just sounds off.
Click to expand...

Well you still have to aim at the target and the longer you hold your aim the more accurate the shot gets (the recital gets smaller) and when it turns red it gives you critical damage. Not sure if there are specific hit boxes though or if damage is just damage regardless of where you hit. May have to equip a pistol at some point and find out.
 
I actually like the idea of the shooting mechanic being stats based. It's an RPG for crying out loud. You're supposed to earn this stuff through leveling up, and by selecting the appropriate skills at the level up screen.

Why provide weapon attributes for your character if they don't have any effect?
 
WabeWalker said:
I actually like the idea of the shooting mechanic being stats based. It's an RPG for crying out loud. You're supposed to earn this stuff through leveling up, and by selecting the appropriate skills at the level up screen.

Why provide weapon attributes for your character if they don't have any effect?
Click to expand...

The problem is the actual shooting part of the game sucks.
 
WabeWalker said:
I actually like the idea of the shooting mechanic being stats based. It's an RPG for crying out loud. You're supposed to earn this stuff through leveling up, and by selecting the appropriate skills at the level up screen.

Why provide weapon attributes for your character if they don't have any effect?
Click to expand...

I do like the concept in AP, where the longer you are aiming, the more focused your shots are. As already mentioned, I'd rather have wobbly aim control for novice skill. And maybe also have skill determine the speed by which I can "focus". Besides, a spy that's being sent into kill should already have an adequate training level in guns to begin with. No one sends in an agent that hasn't learned how to shoot. A game developer can be creative with developing mechanics for gun skill and make it be useful for all sorts of factors without randomizing your hit chance with a dice. But hey, Obsidian made a choice. Not the best choice to win popularity. I just hope they don't do the same for Fallout: New Vegas.
 
In Fallout New Vegas the gunplay is almost completely stats based - maybe in Alpha Protocol they should've stolen... not borrowed, but stolen... VATS.

Imagine sneaking around a corridor and taking out somebody as a spy by going into VATS. You could even have VATS make your character perform a weapons-free take down move. Maybe they missed an opportunity there?

Jesus, I'm doing exactly what I said people shouldn't do - I'm making stuff up rather than judging the game for what it is... still, VATS would've been cool. It almost seems tailor made for a game like this.
 
WabeWalker said:
I actually like the idea of the shooting mechanic being stats based. It's an RPG for crying out loud. You're supposed to earn this stuff through leveling up, and by selecting the appropriate skills at the level up screen.

Why provide weapon attributes for your character if they don't have any effect?
Click to expand...

Other RPGs that do this are not FPS, you just point to the enemy you want to attack and then the stats go into effect. A bit different from what is expected and implemented here.
 
WabeWalker said:
Jesus, I'm doing exactly what I said people shouldn't do - I'm making stuff up rather than judging the game for what it is... still, VATS would've been cool. It almost seems tailor made for a game like this.
Click to expand...

But see this is exactly it – you’re highlighting the fact that things would have worked beautifully had they gone for a non-real-time combat system.

In my opinion you go one of two ways:

1. Don't allow the user to pause the action and therefore tighten the real-time mechanics more similarly to those mentioned above by jiminator. In other words, use the stats a "modifiers" of the dozens of things you could include like recoil, fire rate, etc, but without entirely dropping the real-time element of play. Because the action is all played in real time, I think it's natural for someone to feel that the combat is extremely unsatisfying in Alpha Protocol

2. Allow the user to pause the game and make decisions a la KOTOR, Dragon Age, Fallout 3, or any of the other various systems out there. This allows you to make the effect of stats boosts more apparent to the player, and allows them to have satisfying, visceral combat.

Judging it for what it is makes most people unsatisfied with the combat. That's just a fact. I don't think that everyone is conspiring against the developer, just that it doesn't feel as tight as it should have.
 
WabeWalker said:
In Fallout New Vegas the gunplay is almost completely stats based - maybe in Alpha Protocol they should've stolen... not borrowed, but stolen... VATS.

Imagine sneaking around a corridor and taking out somebody as a spy by going into VATS. You could even have VATS make your character perform a weapons-free take down move. Maybe they missed an opportunity there?

Jesus, I'm doing exactly what I said people shouldn't do - I'm making stuff up rather than judging the game for what it is... still, VATS would've been cool. It almost seems tailor made for a game like this.
Click to expand...

VATS wouldn't have worked with the game, at all. A not shit combat system is what it needs. The rest of the issues with the game are mostly minor the combat is really the only huge issue that I've run across so far.
 
Evidently Obsidian has forgotten how to code for the PC. 1 FPS @ 2560x1600 on the setup in my sig (Fire). Puh-lez.

Crysis and Metro 2033 run at 30-40 fps, but this 1987 looking piece of crap runs at 1 fps. I cannot even lower the settings in the Menu because the fps IN MENU are so slow. Somebody needs kicked square in the nuts.
 
Frraksurred said:
Evidently Obsidian has forgotten how to code for the PC. 1 FPS @ 2560x1600 on the setup in my sig (Fire). Puh-lez.

Crysis and Metro 2033 run at 30-40 fps, but this 1987 looking piece of crap runs at 1 fps. I cannot even lower the settings in the Menu because the fps IN MENU are so slow. Somebody needs kicked square in the nuts.
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Could be a driver issue, try it on your other system. Game runs mostly fine for me. Gets struttery at times, but I haven't got around to playing with the settings yet.
 
Frraksurred said:
Evidently Obsidian has forgotten how to code for the PC. 1 FPS @ 2560x1600 on the setup in my sig (Fire). Puh-lez.

Crysis and Metro 2033 run at 30-40 fps, but this 1987 looking piece of crap runs at 1 fps. I cannot even lower the settings in the Menu because the fps IN MENU are so slow. Somebody needs kicked square in the nuts.
Click to expand...

I'm sure it's a bug, that wouldn't have anything to do with optimization.
 
Derangel said:
VATS wouldn't have worked with the game, at all. A not shit combat system is what it needs. The rest of the issues with the game are mostly minor the combat is really the only huge issue that I've run across so far.
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Are you aware that the whole point of VATS was to make it possible for RPG enthusiasts to play the game in a non-action oriented manner?

That was what VATS was all about. Bethesda wanted to make certain that Fallout 3 would be a game that was chiefly a role playing game, and not an FPS or an action game.

Alpha Protocol was meant to be a stats based role playing game - not an action game along the lines of a Mass Effect. VATS would've worked perfectly for this game. Perfectly. Like everyone else, you seem to want to remove all the role-playing aspects of this game, and turn it into some kind of Mass Effect-like shooter. Had Obsidian done that then Alpha Protocol would have ceased to be a role playing game, and would've been a shooter instead.

VATS would've solved this problem with the combat - absolutely it would have.
 
Ok, after a reboot I'm able to get 15-20 fps for a bout 3 minutes... then the game slows back down to its 1 fps crawl. Seems like a memory leak to me. It will not allow me to set the resolution to anything other than my native resolution, so I'm going hunting for a command line parameter.

Personally I think this game needed another 6 months of development, at least.
 
Frraksurred said:
Evidently Obsidian has forgotten how to code for the PC. 1 FPS @ 2560x1600 on the setup in my sig (Fire). Puh-lez.

Crysis and Metro 2033 run at 30-40 fps, but this 1987 looking piece of crap runs at 1 fps. I cannot even lower the settings in the Menu because the fps IN MENU are so slow. Somebody needs kicked square in the nuts.
Click to expand...

I think you have some other issues. I'm playing at 1920x1080 and its smooth as silk... If I had a monitor with 2560x1600 I would test it for you but I doubt it would drop down to 1 FPS.
 
WabeWalker said:
Are you aware that the whole point of VATS was to make it possible for RPG enthusiasts to play the game in a non-action oriented manner?

That was what VATS was all about. Bethesda wanted to make certain that Fallout 3 would be a game that was chiefly a role playing game, and not an FPS or an action game.

Alpha Protocol was meant to be a stats based role playing game - not an action game along the lines of a Mass Effect. VATS would've worked perfectly for this game. Perfectly. Like everyone else, you seem to want to remove all the role-playing aspects of this game, and turn it into some kind of Mass Effect-like shooter. Had Obsidian done that then Alpha Protocol would have ceased to be a role playing game, and would've been a shooter instead.

VATS would've solved this problem with the combat - absolutely it would have.
Click to expand...

Dude, I've been playing the game. You don't even have it yet. Don't try to tell me what would and wouldn't work in a game you haven't even played a single second of. I found VATS to be utterly broken and just another part of Fallout 3's dog shit quality combat system. A poorly designed system wouldn't help Alpha Protocol. You preach about looking at a game by how the developers wanted it to be and then completely ignore that point. Obsidian didn't design AP to be pause and play/ If they wanted it to be pause and play they would have designed the entire game to be that way.
 
Judging from their forums PC users are experiencing a wide variety of issues, including the 1 fps problems I'm having. I also have the "disappearing choices" problem where none of the print in the dialogue selection window shows up, so you have no idea what you are choosing.
 
I personally loved VATS ( even with the system slow down it caused).



I want to play this game before I buy it because the reviews are crazy mixed. It seems like most people who don't like the game don't like it because its not COD4. Is there a way to get a demo of this game?
 
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stevedave said:
I personally loved VATS ( even with the system slow down it caused).



I want to play this game before I buy it because the reviews are crazy mixed. It seems like most people who don't like the game don't like it because its not COD4. Is there a way to get a demo or this game?
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If this game was COD4 I would have utterly despised it. But my feelings are if you're going to put guns in a game, don't make the actual firing of them feel like ass. Older CRPGs had some really terrible combat mechanics, but they backed it up with complexity and games that required skill and some level of planning and controlling the pace of a battle. AP has the same level of terrible combat without the complexity and challenge to back it up. Its just left with a very poorly designed combat system while the rest of the game around it is either good or slightly above average.

No demo for the game has been announced and I doubt they'll do one. Wait for the game to hit bargain bin prices, shouldn't take that long.
 
Derangel said:
If this game was COD4 I would have utterly despised it. But my feelings are if you're going to put guns in a game, don't make the actual firing of them feel like ass. Older CRPGs had some really terrible combat mechanics, but they backed it up with complexity and games that required skill and some level of planning and controlling the pace of a battle. AP has the same level of terrible combat without the complexity and challenge to back it up. Its just left with a very poorly designed combat system while the rest of the game around it is either good or slightly above average.

No demo for the game has been announced and I doubt they'll do one. Wait for the game to hit bargain bin prices, shouldn't take that long.
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I don't buy games without playing them first, even at bargain prices, no demo means I'll have to play it by other means or not buy it.
 
VATS was indeed shit. Beat the game without using it once. You could end battles in 1/10th the time without it.

If this game was COD4 I would have utterly despised it. But my feelings are if you're going to put guns in a game, don't make the actual firing of them feel like ass. Older CRPGs had some really terrible combat mechanics, but they backed it up with complexity and games that required skill and some level of planning and controlling the pace of a battle. AP has the same level of terrible combat without the complexity and challenge to back it up. Its just left with a very poorly designed combat system while the rest of the game around it is either good or slightly above average.
Click to expand...

I agree. I'd like to point out Vampire: Bloodlines, another CRPG with stat-based shooting mechanics released in 2004. And guess what? It was equally panned for having shit combat (note: before Mass Effect ever existed). No one likes aiming directly at a target, shooting, and having it miss because you rolled a 4 instead of a 5. What's the point of mouse-look aiming if it's gonna be like that?

But the rest of the game was awesome so it wasn't a big issue. Can't say the same for Alpha Protocol.
 
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