Alibaba’s Jack Ma Says Fakes Are Better Than Originals

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Unless we are talking about boobs, I can't really think of a product where fakes are better than the original. It sounds like this guy is just trying to justify knock offs.

“The problem is the fake products today are of better quality and better price than the real names,” he said during a speech on Tuesday at Alibaba’s headquarters in Hangzhou. “They are exactly the [same] factories, exactly the same raw materials but they do not use the names.” The remarks were an apparent riposte to longstanding criticism that Alibaba has tolerated the sale of counterfeit goods on platforms such as Taobao.
 
I can't read the article because it's behind a paywall. But as long as the production is the same, he's absolutely right. I remember being told about three perfumes that were exactly the same but just had different packaging and names for three different price segments.

Of course a brand name has that brand name to maintain so will be better at replacing defective goods and the like.
 
I think the site is terrible you can buy fake anything on that site who know if the stuff is safe. They use shortcuts to make a profit off of established brands.
 
Quartz-1 said:
I can't read the article because it's behind a paywall. But as long as the production is the same, he's absolutely right. I remember being told about three perfumes that were exactly the same but just had different packaging and names for three different price segments.

Of course a brand name has that brand name to maintain so will be better at replacing defective goods and the like.
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The markup on perfumes are an absolute joke.
 
Comixbooks said:
I think the site is terrible you can buy fake anything on that site who know if the stuff is safe. They use shortcuts to make a profit off of established brands.
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You don't need to make shortcuts to get a 200% markup when the real brand sells for 400% markup. Don't delude your self into the illusion Brand markers want you to believe.
off cause ts different when they markup is low and you can't just drop the price 50% easily. Then shortcuts "needs "to happen. avoid those areas of products
But stupid brand loyalty is the reason they get away with these huge profit margens
 
I'm just saying if they made Headphones made of Faux leather where the real ones are leather who knows what is touching your skin. Could be any chemical...
 
I can see it.

BUT - When you buy a name brand, you're buying that trust that comes with it. You KNOW the product is good and that they will stand behind it if it breaks.

If you buy something from the same factory and get a pair of Breasts by Bre, you have nothing to go on. It may be the same exact pair of whatevers, but without that reputation or the support that comes with it, how do you know? You're buying the name and the reputation that comes with it.

I know if I buy an iPhone, it'll be a great device. If I buy an iTone, I have no idea. Will it?
 
If you're talking brand name vs. generic then yes many are the same but were not strictly talking about food....so no.
 
I actually have bought a few knockoff things that have been better than the real thing. One that stands out particularly is a knockoff PS2 Slim stand I bought after having problems with and returning a real one because it kept falling over. The fake one was identical to the real one but substantially heavier owing to it containing a lot more steel. When it comes to knock-offs I won't buy any knock-off electronics, but if it's substantially cheaper and a physical device I can evaluate the quality of myself I'll consider it.

Weirdly, I've also ended up getting legitimate replacement parts for mice, fans, etc off Aliexpress that were marked as compatible. Quite often the same factory that makes the parts for brand A also sells them on Aliexpress. For example when I ordered a replacement cord for my Logitech G500 mouse, because my cat bit through the original. I don't think my cat is PC compatible, maybe he's a Mac cat.
 
NickJames said:
I remember reading a review that said fake Beats by Dre headphones were actually equal if not better than the real thing.
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That's not hard to do, just make them look the same but don't tune the things for farty bloated bass.
 
Merc1138 said:
That's not hard to do, just make them look the same but don't tune the things for farty bloated bass.
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There's no argument beats are overpriced shit but I just found it funny that some $20 Chinese made fakes were better than the $200 genuine. You're literally paying for the label and nothing more.
 
He seems to mean "grey shift items" rather than fake, and in that case he is absolutely correct. How do you tell if something is the same in every way but the price?
 
Armenius said:
It's not hard to find a set of cans that are better than Beats, though. The bar is already set extremely low.
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How true. I would never buy/use a pair of those pieces of trash.. But if I got a pair for extremely cheap or free, I would turn around and sell them as quick as I could.

Speaking of not hard to beat, I got a pair of 1970's Pioneer SE-505 cans for a whopping $1.99 at a thrift store the other day. I will probably end up tuning them for a bit more bass, but they are pretty nice as-is and very well made. I would take those over a set of Beats any day.

And my Creative headset I use for gaming I got for about $30 and it would easily beat the snot out of any pair of Beats without even trying.

britjh22 said:
He seems to mean "grey shift items" rather than fake, and in that case he is absolutely correct. How do you tell if something is the same in every way but the price?
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Yep, I got some replacement PS3 controller casings for really cheap. I was not sure if they would be of the same quality, but for the price I didn't much care. They arrived and look to be the same exact thing, just without the Sony logo and sticker.
 
When the knockoffs and the "real thing" are all produced in the same Chinese factory by the same exploited laborers, what's the difference anyway. The guy is right.
 
I lived in Hong Kong and he is right about the grey market stuff. Some is made off-shift at same factories, but a LOT aren't. They are total bullshit fakes. Some go to tremendous efforts too. They used to take cheap RAM and erase/reprint the silkscreen info.

There are essentially 5 levels of black market stuff over there.

Outright shoddy fakes.

Partial fakes using bits and pieces of real items (Rolex watches used to be a big thing with that).

Factory seconds with real labels defaced

Stolen goods

Off shift work (basically stolen)
 
Quartz-1 said:
I can't read the article because it's behind a paywall. But as long as the production is the same, he's absolutely right. I remember being told about three perfumes that were exactly the same but just had different packaging and names for three different price segments.

Of course a brand name has that brand name to maintain so will be better at replacing defective goods and the like.
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No, even if it is produced at the same facility, the product isn't necessarily the same, especially with stuff more tangible than a particular scent or perfume. One of the major factors to something of chinese manufacture being a piece of shit, or high quality, is who/how QC is done and how the manufacturing facility is held to their initial obligations. Even if the same facility, the tendency for items manufactured outside of those controls is for them to be not as good.

Case in point, I have a "counterfeit/knockoff" tripod. It costs about 1/3 what the real brand costs. It is made in the same facility. This knockoff brand Y offering is really just the brand X product that didn't meet cosmetic QC. It's just as functional, but doesn't look as pretty and doesn't come with the nice packaging or some of the packaged accessories. But if you need it to hold the weight it is specified to hold, and tolerances on standard plates and adapters to be held, it works. Then there is brand Z. It's from the same factory. It is stuff that didn't pass QC for other than cosmetic reasons. It is about 10% of brand X, and you are rolling the dice on how much it conforms to specs and for how long it functions, but a lot of it was not right at the end of the assembly line, essentally chucked, and remanufactured using whatever parts were handy.

Another case in point. There are good flashlights from brand X and brand Y. Both are produced at chinese facilities that make a buttload of brands of flashlights that are designed in the US and made in china. These same facilities also make steaming piles of shit for a fraction of the price because someone will buy it. Many of those steaming piles "accidentally" look exactly like brand X, Y and other reputable brands made in the same place. Some retailers "accidentally" sell those steaming piles that look remarkably like the real thing as the real thing. This is why flashlight aficionados have likely a more fervent opinion of the retailers and their supply chains than they do about the particular makes and models of flashlights. The knockoffs are REALLY bad. THE knockoff batteries are really bad and DANGEROUS.

Then I'll put forward apple. They are pretty much the best in the world about controlling the QC of their supply chain. The very same facilities that make their stuff make a bunch of other stuff that is simply not as well made despite the facility being fully capable of it.
 
His argument is that the knockoff gucci bag is made by the same OEM that makes the Gucci bag. Is he telling the truth? I have no idea, but if it is true, then that's a problem for Gucci, but since nobody here believes that IP theft matters (see incessant rants against any Studio or Label attempting to protect their content).
 
nilepez said:
His argument is that the knockoff gucci bag is made by the same OEM that makes the Gucci bag. Is he telling the truth? I have no idea, but if it is true, then that's a problem for Gucci, but since nobody here believes that IP theft matters (see incessant rants against any Studio or Label attempting to protect their content).
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It's pretty common for CN manufacturers to basically stop production for one company and start production for another using the same tools, materials, etc. There's some really good CMs in China, sometimes they use their powers for good, sometimes for evil.
 
Can't read the article, but I've bought lots of stuff from China and Hong Kong over the years. It's a pretty big range, what it comes down to is that if you're ordering online, you have no idea what you're going to receive. I mean they counterfeit soy sauce and milk in China. On the other hand, you can get some really good knockoff designer glasses that are as good as the real thing,and decent clothes that fall apart in year but they're so cheap you don't care. You can also get some really nice custom made stuff that would be outrageously expensive if done in a 1st world country (tailoring, etc.). Hand tools and electronic parts are pretty decent, and lots of everyday things usually made of plastic can be sometimes purchased in aluminum which is often better in my book. In general, it's ok if you can see products in person, but ordering online especially from overseas is a license to be victimized if you're buying premium stuff.
 
aeliusg said:
When the knockoffs and the "real thing" are all produced in the same Chinese factory by the same exploited laborers, what's the difference anyway. The guy is right.
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Not all the time though. Sometimes just the pieces are made in the same factory, using the same process, but then the assembly is different. I'm thinking along the lines of aftermarket car parts. Where they get all the parts and ship them to the US where the shop will hand assemble them. They sand down any rough casting marks, test them, etc.

While the cheaper knockoff will use the same parts, but they just slap them together. Leaving to excessive wear, failures, etc because they didn't check the construction of each part, fixing what needed fixing, then assembling.

I got a knockoff MS Sidewinder mouse like 2 years ago. No box, no extra feet, no weights, no cord holder, etc. Just bare mouse in a bag. It's no different than the legit MS Sidewinder I bought like 9 years ago. Same internals and everything. Just I could actually buy the knockoff that long after legit was introduced. The legit one was discontinued like a year after it was released.

Other times, you get the super bad knockoffs, like wheels. Might look the same, might even use the exact same materials. Just that how the item was formed is completely different. Like gravity cast, forging, etc. Drastically changes the weight and strength of a wheel.

It's always a spin of the dice when buying knockoffs.
 
I personally wouldnt purchase anything from them that was rather complex (ie electronics, etc) but some for some of the more simplistic things i say why not. just look up "gaming chair" you can find ones that appear to be the same quality of chair found around major retailers for half the price. i understand that companies need to make a profit but some of the markup is a little too greedy imho
 
bigboymuscles678 said:
I personally wouldnt purchase anything from them that was rather complex (ie electronics, etc) but some for some of the more simplistic things i say why not. just look up "gaming chair" you can find ones that appear to be the same quality of chair found around major retailers for half the price. i understand that companies need to make a profit but some of the markup is a little too greedy imho
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Bearings, hydraulics, springs, etc are in a gaming chair also though. Not that it matters to much. I have an el cheapo $150 chair, that probably uses the same crap but isn't designed to look like a bucket seat from a car. Still works fine after 2 years.
 
Monkey God said:
Fake boobs look great but feel like shit. Just sayin'
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Good fake boobs done right, you won't be able to tell unless you can find the scars where they did the surgery. That's why you think all fake boobs suck; you can only spot the bad ones. Besides, I don't turn down any woman just because her boobs aren't perfect. I appreciate the effort of any woman who's doing her best to look nicer for me.

NickJames said:
I remember reading a review that said fake Beats by Dre headphones were actually equal if not better than the real thing.
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Another example of a celebrity being offered money to use his name on an already designed product. Of course he said he designed it himself. Betcha he has zero engineering knowledge, and can't tell you what's in 'his' product.

Ur_Mom said:
BUT - When you buy a name brand, you're buying that trust that comes with it. You KNOW the product is good and that they will stand behind it if it breaks.
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That's just it. lots of companies will do anything they can to avoid replacing a defective product. There are a few good ones out there, but in general, it's still buyer beware. And really, when you have to be an expert to be able to distinguish the real mccoy from the replica, how much better is that original, anyway? They're not 50x or 100x better, that's for sure, but that's the price difference you often see. Genuine watches and jewelry can go for 200x the price of replica stuff that looks identical; there's no way you can convince me that's a reasonable price to pay for a name brand.

There's a wide range of quality out there. Some expensive things are worth paying for, some are not. Diamonds and cubic zircons are indistinguishable to the naked eye; the resale value of a used diamond doesn't come close to what the fancy jewelry store charges; you may as well buy the CZ and bank the rest. I wouldn't buy a knock off parachute. But I'd buy a cheap anchor. I won't buy discount jack stands because I'm going to be under that car, but I will buy a discount lug wrench. Anyone willing to buy a knock off fire extinguisher? I saw a bunch marked 'Kiddy' at a flea market, and some 'Sherman Williams' paint going for $5 a gallon.
 
People make fakes to make a quick buck rather than develop their own 'brand'. When the originals no longer exist, the fakes become shit because that becomes the way to make a quick buck.
 
NickJames said:
I remember reading a review that said fake Beats by Dre headphones were actually equal if not better than the real thing.
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Given that the originals are highly overrated, I'm not totally shocked by this claim.
 
NickJames said:
There's no argument beats are overpriced shit but I just found it funny that some $20 Chinese made fakes were better than the $200 genuine. You're literally paying for the label and nothing more.
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Some reviews are suspect. After having someone try to sell me some "parking lot white van speakers" (he refused to give them to me for $20), I looked them up and a few people were saying they sound pretty good. This is in spite of the speakers being constructed of the very cheapest and thinnest of materials.
 
Steve said:
“The problem is the fake products today are of better quality and better price than the real names,” he said during a speech on Tuesday at Alibaba’s headquarters in Hangzhou. “They are exactly the [same] factories, exactly the same raw materials but they do not use the names.” The remarks were an apparent riposte to longstanding criticism that Alibaba has tolerated the sale of counterfeit goods on platforms such as Taobao.
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I can understand the same factories (this is a real thing, after shifts are over another shift comes in to make the Samsong TVs and phones), but if they are "exactly the same factories" how can they be better quality?
 
As someone who grew up in a place full of knockoff... everything, yeah sometimes the knockoffs can be better. Local companies loved to cut corners and eventually their products became total garbage, so I just went to my friendly neighborhood import shop to get the stuff at a lower price.

There are lots of knockoff things I wouldn't buy though - like batteries. I've seen these shops sell blister packs of alkaline knockoffs that look pretty close to bursting. And I definitely would not give a knockoff toy to my nephew, who knows what the heck is in those plastics. But for simple video and audio cables, and some stationary, the knockoffs work just fine.
 
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