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AIO questions

N

ng4ever

2[H]4U
Joined
Feb 18, 2016
Messages
3,628
How easy is installing a AIO for a beginner?

Which AIOs do you recommend please? I am overclocking a i7 7700k

Thanks!
 
Just added an H80 cooler to my setup. Very simple. It is probably the most effective 120mm you can get if you do not have a lot of case room. Temps are very low and the build quality is fantastic.
 
Nightfire said:
Just added an H80 cooler to my setup. Very simple. It is probably the most effective 120mm you can get if you do not have a lot of case room. Temps are very low and the build quality is fantastic.
Click to expand...

Thanks! What about a 3 fan AIO ?
 
You are running a 7700k. 3 fan systems, also known as 360mm, are typically reserved tor HEDT such as an i9 or a threadripper CPU. You need a giant case and will most likely be an overkill for your CPU, even overclocked.
 
Nightfire said:
You are running a 7700k. 3 fan systems, also known as 360mm, are typically reserved tor HEDT such as an i9 or a threadripper CPU. You need a giant case and will most likely be an overkill for your CPU, even overclocked.
Click to expand...

True. I have the room though.
 
Alot of 360mm really do not perform much better than the 240mm since they often use the same pumps and crap fans. I've heard good things about Thermaltake, but I suggests you do your own research based on what is available for your region.
 
Nightfire said:
Alot of 360mm really do not perform much better than the 240mm since they often use the same pumps and crap fans. I've heard good things about Thermaltake, but I suggests you do your own research based on what is available for your region.
Click to expand...

Ok thank you!
 
Honestly, if you want to go "bigger" than 240mm, and have the ability to mount them, just bump to a 280mm.
A little more surface area, and larger, quieter fans.

I have one of the Thermaltake Core X9 cases. So I have LOTS of options for CPU cooling. I just went with a 280mm (NZXT Kraken X61).
Had to replace the fans about 2 years in. But other than that, everything was hunky-dory.
 
Yep, alot of people get confused by this. A 280mm is closer to a 360mm than a 240mm:

240 x 120 = 28,800 mm^2
280 x 140 = 39,200 mm^2
360 x 120 = 43,200 mm^2

If you can fit it, go with the 280mm as they have quieter fans.
 
+1 for going 280 instead of 360. And honestly, for cooling a CPU alone I'd go with 280 or 240. Like it's been said above, not much performance difference between a 240 and 360 since the rest of the parts is usually identical.
 
Honestly, a good air cooler is easier to install then a CLC is.

CLCs are not made to be easy to install, they are made to sell cheap and make money. Problem is even a cheap CLC costs more than a top tier air cooler that will cool better at same noise levels. Sure, some CLCs out perform top tier air, but only my a few degrees and at the expense of much higher noise levels. Use similar high performance fans on air cooler and in case and air coolers are easily as good or better. Example is we tested Thermalright TRUE Spirit 140 Power and NH-D14 with high performance TY-143 fans moving 130cfm of air at 2500rpm. Resulting temps were 8.25c lower temps on NH-D14 and 9.3c lower on TRUE Spirit 140 Power than with stock fans. There was a video review done many years ago with Silver Arrow SB-E, Silver Arrow SB-E Extreme and H100. Silver Arrow SB-E was 1c warmer than H100 but 17dB(A) quieter .. Silver Arrow SB-E Extreme uses TY-143 2500rpm was 8c cooler and 2dB(A) quieter than H100. 2dB(A) isn't enough for most people to hear a differnce, but 17dB(A) difference sound 3 times as loud to our ears. ;)

H100 was 41c @ 55dB(A)
SA SB-E . 42c @ 38dB(A)
SA SB-E Extreme 34c @ 53dB(A)



Newer CLCs are a little quieter and a little better at cooling, but not much.
 
doyll said:
Honestly, a good air cooler is easier to install then a CLC is.

CLCs are not made to be easy to install, they are made to sell cheap and make money. Problem is even a cheap CLC costs more than a top tier air cooler that will cool better at same noise levels. Sure, some CLCs out perform top tier air, but only my a few degrees and at the expense of much higher noise levels. Use similar high performance fans on air cooler and in case and air coolers are easily as good or better. Example is we tested Thermalright TRUE Spirit 140 Power and NH-D14 with high performance TY-143 fans moving 130cfm of air at 2500rpm. Resulting temps were 8.25c lower temps on NH-D14 and 9.3c lower on TRUE Spirit 140 Power than with stock fans. There was a video review done many years ago with Silver Arrow SB-E, Silver Arrow SB-E Extreme and H100. Silver Arrow SB-E was 1c warmer than H100 but 17dB(A) quieter .. Silver Arrow SB-E Extreme uses TY-143 2500rpm was 8c cooler and 2dB(A) quieter than H100. 2dB(A) isn't enough for most people to hear a differnce, but 17dB(A) difference sound 3 times as loud to our ears. ;)

H100 was 41c @ 55dB(A)
SA SB-E . 42c @ 38dB(A)
SA SB-E Extreme 34c @ 53dB(A)



Newer CLCs are a little quieter and a little better at cooling, but not much.
Click to expand...

I only got about 5c temp difference on my True Spirit Power with the ty-143 fan at full blast
 
Speedeu4ia said:
I only got about 5c temp difference on my True Spirit Power with the ty-143 fan at full blast
Click to expand...
Most likey because your case airflow was only able to supply about half as much airflow as TY-143 fan needs. Case not supply ai within 2-4c of room ambient is very common. In many cases with CP at 100% the cooler intake air is 7-15c warmer than room ambient .. and if GPU is also working hard cooler intake temps can be 10-25c warmer than room.

A simple low cost way to monitor cooler intake air temps is like this:

How to monitor air temperature different places inside of case:
  • A cheap indoor/outdoor thermometer with a piece of insulated wire and a plastic clothspin works great.
  • Made up with floral wire and tape. We don't want anything to short out with metal. ;)
    LL


  • Clip and position sensor where I want to check the temp. Make it easy to see what the air temp going into components actually is relative to room temp. ;)
  • Optimum cooling is when air temps going into coolers only being 2-3c warmer than room.. 5c or less is good.
 
doyll said:
Most likey because your case airflow was only able to supply about half as much airflow as TY-143 fan needs. Case not supply ai within 2-4c of room ambient is very common. In many cases with CP at 100% the cooler intake air is 7-15c warmer than room ambient .. and if GPU is also working hard cooler intake temps can be 10-25c warmer than room.

A simple low cost way to monitor cooler intake air temps is like this:
Click to expand...

I had one like that for an aquarium, but its long gone now

I'm doubting the case flow, 2x 140mm front and 1x140mm and 1x120mm rear. Its also vented mesh directly above the heatsink. I did notice when I unplugged the rear fan, the CPU fan has enough air to spin it, lol.. But if I can find a temp probe I'll do some testing

I assume intake is needed more than exhaust

case is rosewill neutron BTW
 
Speedeu4ia said:
I had one like that for an aquarium, but its long gone now

I'm doubting the case flow, 2x 140mm front and 1x140mm and 1x120mm rear. Its also vented mesh directly above the heatsink. I did notice when I unplugged the rear fan, the CPU fan has enough air to spin it, lol.. But if I can find a temp probe I'll do some testing

I assume intake is needed more than exhaust

case is rosewill neutron BTW
Click to expand...
All of my cooler testing involves monitoring airflow temp into cooler / radiator in real time same as CPU temp. With air coolers cooler intake air temp change to CPU / GPU temp is basically 1:1 ratio, so if air is 5c warmer CPU / GPU will be 5c hotter. ;)
 
doyll said:
All of my cooler testing involves monitoring airflow temp into cooler / radiator in real time same as CPU temp. With air coolers cooler intake air temp change to CPU / GPU temp is basically 1:1 ratio, so if air is 5c warmer CPU / GPU will be 5c hotter. ;)
Click to expand...
My case isnt 5c hotter when the cpu is 5c cooler tho.

I guess what I'm saying is how could my intake temp be hotter when the CPU is cooler? If everything remains the same

My cooler is vertical also

I'll just figure its best case scenario with open case that you will see 9c temp drop from the ty-143 fan vs ty-147 fan(real world only 5-6c).
 
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doyll said:
Honestly, a good air cooler is easier to install then a CLC is.

CLCs are not made to be easy to install, they are made to sell cheap and make money. Problem is even a cheap CLC costs more than a top tier air cooler that will cool better at same noise levels. Sure, some CLCs out perform top tier air, but only my a few degrees and at the expense of much higher noise levels. Use similar high performance fans on air cooler and in case and air coolers are easily as good or better. Example is we tested Thermalright TRUE Spirit 140 Power and NH-D14 with high performance TY-143 fans moving 130cfm of air at 2500rpm. Resulting temps were 8.25c lower temps on NH-D14 and 9.3c lower on TRUE Spirit 140 Power than with stock fans. There was a video review done many years ago with Silver Arrow SB-E, Silver Arrow SB-E Extreme and H100. Silver Arrow SB-E was 1c warmer than H100 but 17dB(A) quieter .. Silver Arrow SB-E Extreme uses TY-143 2500rpm was 8c cooler and 2dB(A) quieter than H100. 2dB(A) isn't enough for most people to hear a differnce, but 17dB(A) difference sound 3 times as loud to our ears. ;)

H100 was 41c @ 55dB(A)
SA SB-E . 42c @ 38dB(A)
SA SB-E Extreme 34c @ 53dB(A)



Newer CLCs are a little quieter and a little better at cooling, but not much.
Click to expand...

Is this also the case with SFF builds?
 
I don't recommend them. They are junk. Get a Noctua NH-D15 instead. :cool: It'll run cooler & wont leave your computer smelling like a fishtank.
 
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silk186 said:
Is this also the case with SFF builds?
Click to expand...
Depends, but the AIO prob preforms better in that case but may be harder to install

I personally know the limitations and build accordingly (avoiding aio).

The 2 itx builds I have currently are a huge itx case rosewill neutron with 7700k and huge air cooler.

The other is an office PC with a 4460 in a small Lian Li pc-q07b
 
The ease of installing an AiO is more to do with your case than the AiO.

They're all built to take about as much effort to put in as an air cooler + a couple case fans.

The question is if your case makes it easy to get at everything to install.
 
The main reason I went with AIO coolers back when the original H100 was released wasn't OOOHHH performance. It was the fact that it would eliminate the problem with bent motherboards while giving performance in the same ballpark as the top tier of air coolers. I have replaced enough broken motherboards, where the only visible damage is a seriously bent area around the CPU socket due to a overweight air cooler, to make this a priority for me.

Add the fact that you can move the heat to the exhaust area of your case with an AIO and it was a no-brainer to me.

But I am well aware of the good performance a big air cooler gives, I've had good times with large offerings from Noctua, Cooler Master, Thermalright, Zalman, Scythe, and so on.

And if you change your hardware every 6-12 months, who cares if the motherboard would bend over time anyway.
 
silk186 said:
Is this also the case with SFF builds?
Click to expand...
I think you are not understanding what I said, so how about I tell you if air temp going into cooler goes up when CPU is working hard so does CPU temp. ;)
 
doyll said:
Honestly, a good air cooler is easier to install then a CLC is.
Click to expand...

I am guessing CLC is the same as AIO. Honestly, my H80i was much easier to install than some of the big air coolers I have had in the past. They have been hard to lock down when room is tight.

Another advantage of the AIO coolers is that they blow all of the hot air directly out of the case. So, even though the air coolers might perform slightly better, you may end up with higher vrm and gpu temps since the inside of the case is warmer.

https://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/7...formance-liquid-cpu-cooler-review/index7.html

The H80i v2 is a monster and quiet too.
 
Nightfire said:
I am guessing CLC is the same as AIO. Honestly, my H80i was much easier to install than some of the big air coolers I have had in the past. They have been hard to lock down when room is tight.

Another advantage of the AIO coolers is that they blow all of the hot air directly out of the case. So, even though the air coolers might perform slightly better, you may end up with higher vrm and gpu temps since the inside of the case is warmer.

https://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/7...formance-liquid-cpu-cooler-review/index7.html

The H80i v2 is a monster and quiet too.
Click to expand...
Good guess.
CLC (Closed Loop Cooling) is a sub-group of AIO coolers. CLCs are factory sealed aluminum radiator low coolant flowrate pump systems originally called LCLC (Low Cost Liquid Cooler) by Asetek who holds USA patent on the concept of pump and waterblock being one unit.
AIO (All In One) are a pre-assembled and filled systems of which CLCs are a subgroup. But not all AIO's are CLC. Some like Swiftech H series, Fractal Design Kelvin series, be quiet! Silent Loop series, Alphacool Eisbaer series are not CLC. All are build with reusable components .. having featrues like a fill plug for servicing (adding coolant, or changing coolant), have 50% to 1000% higher coolant flowrates, have copper radiators, have proper threaded fittiings and lines that can be changed / cut to custom length. While these AIOs are much better than CLCS, they are still much lower quality than all but the lower quality custom system components.

Many people consider the above AIOs that are not CLCs to be AIOs that are componet pieces .. and CLCs to be a completely different group rather than a sub-group of AIO.


As for AIOs blowing all their hot air out of case, it depends on if they are mounted as intake or exhaust. Like you, I consider it a no brainer that they would be exhaust. ;)

How well a AIO / CLC works (as exhaust) versus an air cooler depends a lot on how well setup the case airflow is. If set up properly the inside of case will be less then 3-5c warmer than room .. except for the airflow channels the heated exhaust airflow from CPU / GPU cooler to exhaust venting.

It is not hard to get good cool system airflow with tower CPU coolers.
But it is much harder to get good cool system airflow with GPU coolers.
This is because tower coolers generally are setup to flow air front to back of case .. the same as most tower case airflow works.
But GPU coolers dump heated exhaust in all directions (like downflow/pancake CPU coolers) .. meaning it is hard to keep that heated air from mixing with the cool airflow being supplied to component coolers .. but it can be done and done very well with a little work. I do it all the time, and have guides / tutorials explaining what tools are needed and how to do it.

AIO/CLC vs air cooler installation ease is no inherently easier to install for one than the other. If all things are equal an air cooler is easier to install becaue there is only the mount to CPU and fan to plug in .. while with a AIO/CLC the radiator also has to be mounted .. with it's fans.
Ease or lack of ease when installing cooler or CLC/AIO is dependent on individual cooler mounting system as well as case design.
 
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The ease (or lack) of installation is completely cooler dependant. There really is no one is easier than another.
 
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