AIO Closed Loop vs Custom Open loop..

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Supreme [H]ardness
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Nov 17, 2000
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Don't really have an issue with heat at my current OC but would like to push further and also I am looking for a project. What I can't find is many comparisons that show AIO CLC benched against an open loop custom setup with the same radiator size. If I did a thick 280mm rad wtih a good pump/res as well as a good waterblock should I expect better temps than a Corsair H110i GT? I would love to see some benches between custom and AIO but keeping an apples to apples comparison. The benchmarks I do see comparing open loop custom setups they usually have an extra radiator etc.
 
If you want a higher quality cooler you could go with a predator 240 and still have the option to expand if you want or refill it when needed.
I know that isnt your question, but I wasnt sure if you had looked at it and thought it might be helpful
 
The thing is, with the sheer number of different radiators out there (and the variability of coolant volume), there's no good way to do apples to apples.

You can get an all-in-one with a relatively thin radiator like this:

H110-03b.jpg


Or do a custom loop with a big reservoir and a monstrously thick rad like this:

Alphacool-NexXxoS-Monsta-280mm-Radiator-35432-1.jpg


Both of those are 280mm rads.

BASICALLY, the size of the radiator (in all three dimensions) and the amount of coolant in the loop will determine how long, if ever, the system can run at any given level before the cooling system reaches thermal saturation.
 
For a single loop CPU only I see little advantage these days for a custom over an AIO. But add a GPU or even dual GPU's that's where a custom loop is going to shine.
 
Not worth switching to custom if you only plan on cooling the cpu.
 
Rad is mostly irrelevant. The issue is pumps are too slow on aio. Look at my review of the h100i gtx. If your not pushing more then 170 w tdp aio is perfect. If u break 200w tdp custom is needed

A good 240 rad with decent fan can cool 200 ws
 
The thing is, with the sheer number of different radiators out there (and the variability of coolant volume), there's no good way to do apples to apples.

You can get an all-in-one with a relatively thin radiator like this:

H110-03b.jpg


Or do a custom loop with a big reservoir and a monstrously thick rad like this:

Alphacool-NexXxoS-Monsta-280mm-Radiator-35432-1.jpg


Both of those are 280mm rads.

BASICALLY, the size of the radiator (in all three dimensions) and the amount of coolant in the loop will determine how long, if ever, the system can run at any given level before the cooling system reaches thermal saturation.

This is my point.. how much cooler would that rad in a custom setup be over the AIO? Honestly I don't think as much as we all believe.
 
Not worth switching to custom if you only plan on cooling the cpu.

Why?... Also I want to do the GPU but havent found a waterblock for the EVGA GTX 908 TI yet. But I am still curious why not if just cooling the CPU and trying to drive down temps?
 
Rad is mostly irrelevant. The issue is pumps are too slow on aio. Look at my review of the h100i gtx. If your not pushing more then 170 w tdp aio is perfect. If u break 200w tdp custom is needed

A good 240 rad with decent fan can cool 200 ws

That is a comparison I would love to see.. for some reason it's hard to find someone putting a NICE custom open loop against an AIO. I don't care about rad thickness what I care about is comparing them both with a 240 and seeing the results.. see how much of a difference a thicker rad, bigger hose , better pump and better block can really do.
 
I can tell you the difference going from an h100i to a 360 with a dual D5 bay res. I run 10C cooler during stress tests. For gaming, it's closer to 14C cooler on a custom loop in a P/P configuration. But the real story is in the noise. The Corsair unit needed the fans running at 1800RPM to keep my temps on the 3770K down to a max of 80C at 4.5GHZ. with my custom loop I can run the fans at 750RPM and only hit 70C on my hottest core running P95 on small.
 
I can tell you the difference going from an h100i to a 360 with a dual D5 bay res. I run 10C cooler during stress tests. For gaming, it's closer to 14C cooler on a custom loop in a P/P configuration. But the real story is in the noise. The Corsair unit needed the fans running at 1800RPM to keep my temps on the 3770K down to a max of 80C at 4.5GHZ. with my custom loop I can run the fans at 750RPM and only hit 70C on my hottest core running P95 on small.

its the pump in the corsair h100i GTX. I put better fans on it and my temps only marginally dropped. I used my IR temp gun and found that the water was nearly room temp by time it passed the whole rads surface. The rad is great on the H100i GTX but the pump is not good enough....if you want to push 170 plus w TDP. Only reason why you need bigger then a 240 rad is if you want a silent system or your going more then a single CPU.
 
I was using the older H100i non GTX. If you want an all in one with a pump that will rival a custom loop, look at the EK setup.

I'm not going to say the pump in the corsair unit is no good, it just does not rival a D5. I still haze an original H50 cooling my 980X. I think they are a good product for what they are.

I used to laugh at people wanting a silent system until I found that my setup worked for that. I walked up to my son's room that had my hand me 5870. I was amazed how annoying it is now compared too newer coolers. It made me appreciate having my near silent setup.
 
My stuff is in a basement so fan n9se is nearly irrelevant to a furnace lol.

The h100i gtx is great and compariable to ek and swift tek aio. Its also affordable. It is all 99% of the world needs unless ur extreme OC or 6+ core cpu with extreme OC

170 watt is huge and it can keep 50ish c iirc but above that temps sky rocket. I am impressed by how good it is for the prjce but it has limits
 
This is my point.. how much cooler would that rad in a custom setup be over the AIO? Honestly I don't think as much as we all believe.

Cooler? Probably not at all or not enough to justify the extra expenditure.

Now, are you overclocking and putting a higher heat load on the cooling system?

THAT is when you start seeing differences. When the cooling system is put under load.

With a highly overclocked CPU, you might run into limitations where an AIO hits thermal saturation (the general temperature of all coolant in the system increases over time because there's not enough surface area or coolant (or a combination of the two) to properly dissipate all heat being removed from the CPU.

It's at points like this that custom loops, using larger/deeper radiators and greater coolant volume will shine.
 
Cooler? Probably not at all or not enough to justify the extra expenditure.

Now, are you overclocking and putting a higher heat load on the cooling system?

THAT is when you start seeing differences. When the cooling system is put under load.

With a highly overclocked CPU, you might run into limitations where an AIO hits thermal saturation (the general temperature of all coolant in the system increases over time because there's not enough surface area or coolant (or a combination of the two) to properly dissipate all heat being removed from the CPU.

It's at points like this that custom loops, using larger/deeper radiators and greater coolant volume will shine.

The issue is liquid volume per min as i would out with the 100i gtx. Rad/fans is irrelevant at a cwrtqin point. Larg3r the rad means the less fans u need
 
Why?... Also I want to do the GPU but havent found a waterblock for the EVGA GTX 908 TI yet. But I am still curious why not if just cooling the CPU and trying to drive down temps?

Temp drops are not as massive as you will think.

It's only worth going custom if you plan on adding gpu's to the loop. That's where you'll see a massive difference, plus the fact that your pc will be much quieter on average.
 
I can vouche for the EK Predator systems. They have the quality and upgradability of their custom systems, but the simplicity and maintenance free operation of an AIO. They have a powerful pump, copper rad, large flow tubing, and awesome blocks. And if you spring for the 360 version with the QDC, adding one of their GPU blocks prefilled with a QDC is pretty easy to add to the loop.
 
Every review I have seen of the Predator doesn't have it doing any better than the Corsair H110i GT or the SWiftech 240x. I figured with the 360 having so much surface area it would be doing much better than it does.
 
I was using the older H100i non GTX. If you want an all in one with a pump that will rival a custom loop, look at the EK setup.

I'm not going to say the pump in the corsair unit is no good, it just does not rival a D5. I still haze an original H50 cooling my 980X. I think they are a good product for what they are.

I used to laugh at people wanting a silent system until I found that my setup worked for that. I walked up to my son's room that had my hand me 5870. I was amazed how annoying it is now compared too newer coolers. It made me appreciate having my near silent setup.

I can't imagine why you would laugh at someone wanting a silent system. You liked pc noise before?
 
Every review I have seen of the Predator doesn't have it doing any better than the Corsair H110i GT or the SWiftech 240x. I figured with the 360 having so much surface area it would be doing much better than it does.

as I pointed out earlier its the pump that matters. A good 240 rad will cool the water to near ambient temps with a decent fan. I showed nearly no benefit adding better fans to my H100i GTX. This is with it cooling 170-200W TDP already so it wasn't like a small load or anything. 360 is only needed if you got a 8 core CPU OC or CPU and GPU. Unless you want to go silent then you obviously need more and bigger rads.

I can't imagine why you would laugh at someone wanting a silent system. You liked pc noise before?

its more so you get so used to it, it simply doesn't matter but once you go silent you can't go back. Its like going from TN to IPS....once you go IPS you can't go back.
 
Rad size seems to make a difference between the AIO kits.. the swiftechs 140x, 220X and 240x all cool differently yet use the same pump. Also the Predator 360 has a good pump and larger radiator yet only cools as well as the much cheaper H110i GT. So is it safe to say the Corsair AIO has a good pump?

I hear ya on the noise.. as far as TN to IPS.. I have never noticed that much difference but then again all my monitors get calibrated with my Spyder. I would love to try the newer faster IPS panels tho! :)



I guess my main point is the Predator has all the potential of being the best AIO cooler out there but the results are not showing that at all.. I am curious what went wrong.
 
Rad size seems to make a difference between the AIO kits.. the swiftechs 140x, 220X and 240x all cool differently yet use the same pump. Also the Predator 360 has a good pump and larger radiator yet only cools as well as the much cheaper H110i GT. So is it safe to say the Corsair AIO has a good pump?

I hear ya on the noise.. as far as TN to IPS.. I have never noticed that much difference but then again all my monitors get calibrated with my Spyder. I would love to try the newer faster IPS panels tho! :)



I guess my main point is the Predator has all the potential of being the best AIO cooler out there but the results are not showing that at all.. I am curious what went wrong.

140 can cool as well as others but would require a massive fan but thats not really a fair comparison.

If rad size matters on those swifttecs then 2 things are happening.
1. they have a better pump then corsair
or
2. they have a crappy rad or crappy fans.

I found using the enermax fan at 2500 RPM would cool the coolant to ambient temps and that was only 2-3C cooler then it running at 1500 RPMs would IIRC was only a little better than the corsair fans. Once the coolant is at ambient temps better fans or larger rads or completely meaningless so it comes down to the pump/block.
 
140 can cool as well as others but would require a massive fan but thats not really a fair comparison.

If rad size matters on those swifttecs then 2 things are happening.
1. they have a better pump then corsair
or
2. they have a crappy rad or crappy fans.

I found using the enermax fan at 2500 RPM would cool the coolant to ambient temps and that was only 2-3C cooler then it running at 1500 RPMs would IIRC was only a little better than the corsair fans. Once the coolant is at ambient temps better fans or larger rads or completely meaningless so it comes down to the pump/block.

Have you read up on the swiftech units? They are pretty good.. better than the Predator units as far as cooling goes.
 
Have you read up on the swiftech units? They are pretty good.. better than the Predator units as far as cooling goes.

yes and all the review places place the swift tek next to the h100i GTX in performance give or take a few degrees. Each review place has them neck and neck with some variances.
 
After reading this and many other reviews I don't have much faith in the Predator setup being any better than the corsair units.

http://www.legitreviews.com/ekwb-predator-240-aio-liquid-cpu-cooler-review_171968/6

That's a 240, not a 360. :rolleyes:

Every review I have seen of the Predator doesn't have it doing any better than the Corsair H110i GT or the SWiftech 240x. I figured with the 360 having so much surface area it would be doing much better than it does.

Let's be realistic. I've owned a Corsair. It did fine, but the 360 meets or beats any other AIO in temps and noise levels, and to add insult to everything else, it can do it with a GPU added in with medical grade QDCs and overall better quality parts, not to mention it can be fully upgraded/drained, unlike everything els, and it manages to do this with just the MX block, not the EVO, and PE rad, not the XE. I only mentioned it because the OP was open to GPU cooling. I could throw up links too, but I'll just leave with this last note from Guru3d with it's latest review following the release of the GPU prefilled units:

"As far as I am concerned the EK-Predator 360 is the king in AIO cooling performance and low noise levels. "
 
That's a 240, not a 360. :rolleyes:



Let's be realistic. I've owned a Corsair. It did fine, but the 360 meets or beats any other AIO in temps and noise levels, and to add insult to everything else, it can do it with a GPU added in with medical grade QDCs and overall better quality parts, not to mention it can be fully upgraded/drained, unlike everything els, and it manages to do this with just the MX block, not the EVO, and PE rad, not the XE. I only mentioned it because the OP was open to GPU cooling. I could throw up links too, but I'll just leave with this last note from Guru3d with it's latest review following the release of the GPU prefilled units:

"As far as I am concerned the EK-Predator 360 is the king in AIO cooling performance and low noise levels. "

Also cost 2.5 times more then the h100i GTX and gives you a GIANT 2 degree C less temp!!! WHA HOOOO!!!

So why would I buy that verse a custom loop? A custom loop would make a tangible difference so why? Also 2 C??? That is well within margin of error. I have 1 word for that...roflcopter

You must be a salesman...

Oh wait just noticed the Corsair beating it using the review place you just quoted....so yea. I would still say those temps are so close that they are all within margin of error especially considering the differences between various review places.

index.php
 
What do you do with he Corsair when you also want to cool the GPU? What do you do with the corsair when too much coolant has evaporated? What do you do with the Corsair fi the pump fails, want to add an reservoir or do anything at all to it?

You buy a new one. The EK unit can be fixed and or expanded.



The Predator can be modified to your liking and is made of better parts. You get what you pay for.

I find it very hard to believe that the H110i GT cools as well, but I am not going to argue with the review. The main point is going to be the ability to repair and or upgrade, if you dont care about that then I guess buy whatever is cheaper.
 
What do you do with he Corsair when you also want to cool the GPU? What do you do with the corsair when too much coolant has evaporated? What do you do with the Corsair fi the pump fails, want to add an reservoir or do anything at all to it?

You buy a new one. The EK unit can be fixed and or expanded.



The Predator can be modified to your liking and is made of better parts. You get what you pay for.

I find it very hard to believe that the H110i GT cools as well, but I am not going to argue with the review. The main point is going to be the ability to repair and or upgrade, if you dont care about that then I guess buy whatever is cheaper.

again if it has 5 years warranty I bet better AIOs will exist in 5-10 years. And again if I am paying 250 for an AIO...wtf am I doing? You might as well go full custom when your already in 1/4 of a grand! Thats the whole point...why AIO at that price when custom isn't even that much work?
 
again if it has 5 years warranty I bet better AIOs will exist in 5-10 years. And again if I am paying 250 for an AIO...wtf am I doing? You might as well go full custom when your already in 1/4 of a grand! Thats the whole point...why AIO at that price when custom isn't even that much work?

That is valid, It really isn't an AIO, but it isn't exactly a custom loop either so I do agree I would be more likely to build custom if nothing else because it is more fun.
 
That is valid, It really isn't an AIO, but it isn't exactly a custom loop either so I do agree I would be more likely to build custom if nothing else because it is more fun.

and better....I would love to see that EK compared to a custom loop with 200 W TDP. I doubt it could handle it. Seeing that it is increasing in temp with TDP very similar to the H100i GTX.
 
and better....I would love to see that EK compared to a custom loop with 200 W TDP. I doubt it could handle it. Seeing that it is increasing in temp with TDP very similar to the H100i GTX.

there is a lot I would like to see as far as variations. For example what if you added a reservoir to the Predator would the increased volume of coolant change its performance?
 
there is a lot I would like to see as far as variations. For example what if you added a reservoir to the Predator would the increased volume of coolant change its performance?

no. The rad is already cooling to room temp or so close 2 C difference wouldn't really matter so there will be little benefit.
 
I can't imagine why you would laugh at someone wanting a silent system. You liked pc noise before?

When I first started building, the more noise ment more air moving. I just cranked up the volume on my cans or speakers not thinking twice about it. When air cooling, sound was a trade off for cooler temps. Granted fan tec has improvedI lot over using tri color generic fans or industrial delta fans back in the day. But after going custom, I doubt I will ever go back to air cooling because of the noise. It's nice after playing BF4 for several hours, my phone on vibrate it's louder than my PC.
 
again if it has 5 years warranty I bet better AIOs will exist in 5-10 years. And again if I am paying 250 for an AIO...wtf am I doing? You might as well go full custom when your already in 1/4 of a grand! Thats the whole point...why AIO at that price when custom isn't even that much work?

Anything you buy today is irrelevant 5 years from now - poor argument. A comparative EK custom CPU only loop would run around $250 - same price. The XP version with an EVO and XE would be $390 - maybe a couple degrees difference. I did custom before the first AIOs came out and I've been building computers for over 20 years. Why the fuck would I go through the hassle of assembling a custom loop for just a CPU? And then add on the hassle of draining and refilling such custom loop twice a year? I haven't decided to add a GPU block with QDC because I always get the top flagship GPU every year or so and buying a block for each one would be nonsensical. The only reason for me to go full custom again would be if I had an SLI setup or if I was 20 again and wanted pretty colors :rolleyes:

Also cost 2.5 times more then the h100i GTX and gives you a GIANT 2 degree C less temp!!! WHA HOOOO!!!

So why would I buy that verse a custom loop? A custom loop would make a tangible difference so why? Also 2 C??? That is well within margin of error. I have 1 word for that...roflcopter

You must be a salesman...

Oh wait just noticed the Corsair beating it using the review place you just quoted....so yea. I would still say those temps are so close that they are all within margin of error especially considering the differences between various review places.

index.php

I seriously doubt that Corsair would be anywhere near my EK at 1.375v at 4.8GHz. FWIW, I top out at 60 deg. load - umm yeah, 5 deg. cooler than a 1.3v OC.

So let's simplify this more for you. The Predator is basically a custom loop already filled, assembled, and upgradable. If I want to add a GPU block with a QDC, I don't have to drain my system to do it. I could drain, refill, add a new block, change the tubing, res, etc. Can't do that with a Corsair. The extra $100 or so you pay for the EK is for the QDC ($30+), better quality parts, 360 vs 240/280 with a 3rd Varder fan (one of the best hsp fans), and upgradability.
 
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The one they have on it is more like a $15 QDC set ($7.50 for each side). These are $30 QDCs ($15 for each side).
 
Anything you buy today is irrelevant 5 years from now - poor argument. A comparative EK custom CPU only loop would run around $250 - same price. The XP version with an EVO and XE would be $390 - maybe a couple degrees difference. I did custom before the first AIOs came out and I've been building computers for over 20 years. Why the fuck would I go through the hassle of assembling a custom loop for just a CPU? And then add on the hassle of draining and refilling such custom loop twice a year? I haven't decided to add a GPU block with QDC because I always get the top flagship GPU every year or so and buying a block for each one would be nonsensical. The only reason for me to go full custom again would be if I had an SLI setup or if I was 20 again and wanted pretty colors :rolleyes:



I seriously doubt that Corsair would be anywhere near my EK at 1.375v at 4.8GHz. FWIW, I top out at 60 deg. load - umm yeah, 5 deg. cooler than a 1.3v OC.

So let's simplify this more for you. The Predator is basically a custom loop already filled, assembled, and upgradable. If I want to add a GPU block with a QDC, I don't have to drain my system to do it. I could drain, refill, add a new block, change the tubing, res, etc. Can't do that with a Corsair. The extra $100 or so you pay for the EK is for the QDC ($30+), better quality parts, 360 vs 240/280 with a 3rd Varder fan (one of the best hsp fans), and upgradability.

again I was referring to custom loop for 200 W+ TDP. If your not pushing 170 W TDP or more; a $100 dollar AIO is just as good as a $250 EK.

All those test prove that. Get off your high horse and just except that EK is completely over priced for the performance. If your telling me that EK can be as good as a custom system show me it handling 200-220 W TDP (preferably 220W TDP or more). I have the h100i GTX and it hits extreme temps at that range because the pump is lacking and yet that EK is in the same region at lower TDPs and is scaling to higher temps at the same pace so by all the evidence that EK in those charts probably can't handle 220 W TDP.

So please prove me wrong. Push 220 W TDP through the EK and show me the results. Can it keep sub 70 C? From what I read custom loops can keep sub 70 C with 220W plus TDP. The H100i GTX was hitting IIRC 90s at 220W TDP (see my review). How does that EK scale? What is the input water temp and output water temp? Show me some god damn results. Otherwise give it a rest. Hell, send me your EK and I'll test it for you at 220W TDP and see what happens and I'll report back and mail it back to you.

As far as all reviews and test go that EK performs exactly the same as the Corsair but 2.5x the money. Prove it can handle 220 W TDP like a champ. I would love to see it. If it can I'll buy that over custom but otherwise it has no real purpose.

I got all the data in the world on the H100i GTX in regards to how it handles a CPU with TDPs as high as 220W TDP. Where is your data proving the EK can have sub 90s or sub 80s or sub 70s C for 220 W TDP?

PROVE IT!!!
I seriously doubt that Corsair would be anywhere near my EK at 1.375v at 4.8GHz. FWIW, I top out at 60 deg. load - umm yeah, 5 deg. cooler than a 1.3v OC.

I got all the data of a Corsair H100i GTX on a 4.5 GHz Xeon 1650v3 at 1.4V running at 170-220W TDP. Show me your EK at 170-220W TDP
i_want_you.png
 
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The one they have on it is more like a $15 QDC set ($7.50 for each side). These are $30 QDCs ($15 for each side).

Wrong. Don't take my word for it.

https://youtu.be/SnMeoV95TM0?t=171

http://www.cpcworldwide.com/productlist.aspx?Series=23


You're still missing the point. I merely suggested to the OP this product, given he might want to add a GPU loop. Let me simplify it more for you.

The extra $100 or so you pay for the EK is for the QDC ($30+), better quality parts, 360 vs 240/280 with a 3rd Varder fan (one of the best hsp fans), and upgradability.

As an engineer, I don't have to explain to you that a 360 rad (38mm) is going to dissipate more heat than a 240 (30mm), especially when yours is made from aluminum rather than copper. So without wasting my time on this thread more than I should have with numbers, read and learn that copper + bigger rad + larger tubing + faster flow rate is going to dissipate more heat for higher TDPs. I have 60C on full load. At 5.0GHz, 1.42v, I was around 66C. Eat it and enjoy. I'm done with this thread.
 
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