AGP to PCI-E

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bazookaworm

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jan 30, 2008
Messages
192
Hi everyone, I need some help. I want to switch from agp to pci-e because pci-e is more modern and I imagine that agp will soon be obsolete, pci-e cards are also cheaper :D

Anyway, I have currently have a Socket 478 p4 with 1gb ddr ram, 80gb ide hard drive and a x1650 pro agp. I'm not going to just throw away the parts though, if I find no use for the parts ill just put the gpu and ram into my older computer and ill probably sell the p4.

Im looking for the most cost-effective way to go from AGP to PCI-E. I don't really have a specific budget(I don't want to exceed $500 before video card though), I just want to get pci-e the easiest possible way without buying a crap cpu and a mobo that will die on me in a couple months. I want dual core, but have not decided on what type(pentium dual, c2d or athlon x2) Some games I play are Oblivion, hl2,css,tf2(basically all the valve games :cool:) But I want some room for upgrading in the future too. All opinions are appreciated and if you could suggest a video card to go along with it too please.

btw, I have a not so good monitor and play only at 1280 x 1024 / 1024 x 768 depending on the game. I am NOT looking for a new monitor though.

edit: heres what im going to order

Intel Pentium Dual-Core E2180 - $50 from friend
Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3L $85.73 before shipping open box
8800GT - Galaxy $202 shipped - thx farfromhome for finding the better galaxy card :p
Artic Cooler 7 Pro $33 shipped

total: $370.73 including video card.....not too bad :D

thanks for all the help and suggestions...finally no more AGP, I am now a happy camper.
 
I assume you don't want SLI or Crossfire, so P35 is the optimal chipset. Cost-effective means many things to many people, but at your resolution you don't need a super-high-end rig. 8800 GT would be my recommendation for video card, anything over that is overkill at your resolution, and anything under that isn't as good bang/buck except maybe the 3850 if you want to go really budget. Anyway, here are my suggestions at various price-points, using NewEgg for price-checks; you may be able to get some of the components cheaper somewhere else, but make sure it's a reputable (r)etailer:

Memory for all configurations:
Corsair XMS2 DDR2-800 2x1 GB($54 - $20 MIR = $34 after rebate)

$200-$300:
AMD Athlon 64 X2 5000+ Black Edition ($100)
Arctic Cooling Freezer 64 Pro ($20 + $5 S&H)
Biostar TA770 A2+ (AMD 770 chipset) ($82 + $6 S&H)
Total: $256 + $11 S&H - $20 MIR = $247

Pro: Upgradable to Phenom quad-cores, Black Edition means unlocked multiplier, cheap
Con: No high-end CPU's available on AMD platform at the moment

$300-$400:
Intel Core 2 Duo E6750 ($190)
Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3L (Intel P35 chipset) ($90 + $6 S&H)
Total: $334 + $6 S&H - $20 MIR = $320

Pro: Good, solid C2D setup, can easily overclock over 3 GHz
Con: Not too much connectivity or frills on the DS3L, or the similar abit IP35-E

$400-$500:
Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 ($278)
Gigabyte GA-EP35-DS3R (Intel P35 chipset) ($127 + $6 S&H)
Total: $459 + $6 S&H - $20 MIR = $445

Pro: No compromises, good upper-midrange system; EP35-series has energy-saving features
Con: Most expensive of the bunch

Note that there are lots of good P35 motherboards out there; some people swear by abit, others like ASUS, a few prefer MSI, but I'm going with Gigabyte here because that's what I myself have (and like). Check all the P35-chipset motherboards in the price-range you want from the reputable manufacturers and see which one has the features you like the best, as that's pretty much what the differences boil down to.
 
A $75 E2160 OCed to 3Ghz will be faster than a $100 A64 X2 5000+ Black Edition at 3Ghz. The C2Ds -- even the ones with small caches -- are faster clock for clock than the AMD chips. Zero reason to build AMD right now unless you're going ultra-low budget.

Also, add $50-70 to the above builds for some RAM. DDR2-800 is all you'll need. CAS 5 or lower.
 
Woah a E2160 can be overclocked to 3ghz??? :eek: what kind of psu/cooler would you need to accomplish that?

Im currently liking the C2D setup, im going to look at some reviews on the parts. Thanks for the suggestions :D Unfortunatly, since I live in Canada, there will be no newegg for me
:( So im thinking NCIX or Tigerdirect atm, unless I can find a better vendor.

thanks
 
farfromhome said:
Memory for all configurations:
Corsair XMS2 DDR2-800 2x1 GB ($54 - $20 MIR = $34 after rebate)
Click to expand...

silent-circuit said:
Also, add $50-70 to the above builds for some RAM. DDR2-800 is all you'll need. CAS 5 or lower.
Click to expand...

Already factored in. ;)

silent-circuit said:
A $75 E2160 OCed to 3Ghz will be faster than a $100 A64 X2 5000+ Black Edition at 3Ghz. The C2Ds -- even the ones with small caches -- are faster clock for clock than the AMD chips. Zero reason to build AMD right now unless you're going ultra-low budget.
Click to expand...

That's true, though not sure if FSB-OC'ing a Pentium Dual-Core would be as easy as adjusting a multiplier for a novice OC'er (like me; got the E6850 so I wouldn't feel bad if I didn't OC, though now I sometimes wish I'd gone for a Q6600, not that I'd have much use for the extra cores yet).

Anyway, the Pentium Dual-Core route would be (with the same memory as above):

$200-$300 (alternate):
Intel Pentium Dual-Core E2160 ($79)
Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro ($27 + $5 S&H)
Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3L (Intel P35 chipset) ($90 + $6 S&H)
Total: $250 + $11 S&H - $20 MIR = $241

Not sure if the Freezer 7 Pro would be enough to get it to 3 GHz, but I figure it's better than the stock cooler.
 
bazookaworm said:
Im currently liking the C2D setup, im going to look at some reviews on the parts. Thanks for the suggestions :D Unfortunatly, since I live in Canada, there will be no newegg for me
:( So im thinking NCIX or Tigerdirect atm, unless I can find a better vendor.
Click to expand...

Glad to help. :) I've heard good things about NCIX; almost ordered a non-reference 8800 GT from them before I settled on a 8800 GTS 512MB instead. :) Not sure how good TigerDirect is in Canada, but they're generally one to avoid in the US, at least as far as rebates are concerned.
 
Using NCIX and pricematch to Direct Canada (or Canada Direct?) is the way to go as I understand.

Yep, E2xxx chips will hit 3Ghz without trouble on aftermarket cooling. Some even higher. An E4500 should hit 3.2-3.6Ghz without trouble for ~$120, has a larger cache than the E2xxxs, and will beat the AMD that much worse. I'd recommend a Scythe Ninja or Zerotherm Nirvana NV120 ($40 and $50 shipped respectively, though I'd go with the Zerotherm as it's a better HSF and you may be able to find a MIR on it)
 
bazookaworm said:
Woah a E2160 can be overclocked to 3ghz??? :eek: what kind of psu/cooler would you need to accomplish that?
Click to expand...

Stock? lol. Most stock coolers should be fine between 2.8-3Ghz (unless you get one of the tiny half-height ones) -- just keep your load temps under 60Cº. The AC Freezer 7 Pro listed by farfromhome would be enough, and its only around $20USD. A good alternative to that is the Cooler Master TX-2, which can sometimes be found for $1USD after rebate.

bazookaworm said:
Unfortunatly, since I live in Canada, there will be no newegg for me :( So im thinking NCIX or Tigerdirect atm, unless I can find a better vendor.
Click to expand...

Canadacomputers.com is also a good vendor.
 
The E2xxx chips are shipping with the stupid tiny coolers now, unfortunately, so OCing with the stock cooler isn't really an option.
 
silent-circuit said:
The E2xxx chips are shipping with the stupid tiny coolers now, unfortunately, so OCing with the stock cooler isn't really an option.
Click to expand...

Really? There goes plan A for a cheap OC'd PC for my friend.

Hmm I still have the stock Intel HSF from my E6400. Wonder if that'll be enough?

Anyway, whats your budget for this new PC?
 
Danny Bui said:
Really? There goes plan A for a cheap OC'd PC for my friend.

Hmm I still have the stock Intel HSF from my E6400. Wonder if that'll be enough?
Click to expand...

Yep. Got an E2200 or 2180 (can't remember which) for a friend about 3 weeks ago and the HSF was tiny. Gave him one of my spares.

The one from the E6400 might be enough, but I think you'd be a lot better off finding something with a big MIR on it instead. The stock HSFs really aren't that great, and if nothing else, they're /loud/.
 
silent-circuit said:
Yep. Got an E2200 or 2180 (can't remember which) for a friend about 3 weeks ago and the HSF was tiny. Gave him one of my spares.

The one from the E6400 might be enough, but I think you'd be a lot better off finding something with a big MIR on it instead. The stock HSFs really aren't that great, and if nothing else, they're /loud/.
Click to expand...

Well the stock Intel HSF I have is pretty quiet. Then again, my definition of "quiet" may be your version of "loud".:)
 
Danny Bui said:
Well the stock Intel HSF I have is pretty quiet. Then again, my definition of "quiet" may be your version of "loud".:)
Click to expand...

Ditto here, assuming it's the same one that comes with the E6850. From what I've read, the AC Freezer 7 is supposed to be not all that much more quiet than the (old-style) stock cooler, but it cools the processor much better (even than the beefier one).
 
I have the AC7 Pro. It's louder than the stock Intel HSF I got. But it does cool better than the stock HSF on the E6400. Dropped my temps about 7 to 8 degrees. The AC7 Pro keeps my E6400 OC'd @ 3.2Ghz 42C Idle and 56C under load. Though in the summer time, those temps shoot up pretty high.
 
Yup, got a tiny one with my E2200, too -- thats too bad. I guess I could play with it and see how well it can OC, lol. The old, bigger ones were ok usually up to 2.8-3Ghz, depending on your chip.

farfromhome said:
Ditto here, assuming it's the same one that comes with the E6850. From what I've read, the AC Freezer 7 is supposed to be not all that much more quiet than the (old-style) stock cooler, but it cools the processor much better (even than the beefier one).
Click to expand...

It cools better because of the heatpipes. Now, only if they added more heatpipes... oh wait, then it'd be exactly like the Thermalright Ultima90. ;)
 
Thanks for all the replies. I think im going to go with the E2180(ive always liked intel more than amd anyway) Will I need the scythe or zerothern or will the artic cooler that farfromhome mentioned suffice?

p.s. i never knew ncix price matched
 
For around a 3Ghz OC, the AC Freezer 7Pro should suffice. Its keeping my E2200 at a cool 46°C during full load (27°C idle) @ 3.2Ghz (4x800) w/ 1.35v (VID: 1.2625v) -- 22°C ambient.
 
I'd still pick up the ZeroTherm as it'll be good even on a Quad should you ever swap out the E2180 for something else, plus it'll keep the chip cooler and potentially allow a higher OC for now.
 
Yah, if you plan on upgrading the CPU to a chip that can reach much higher than 3Ghz or any quad, you should get a better HSF than the AC F7Pro, unless you'd rather just buy it later on, along with the new CPU.
 
Well...I could always buy a new cooler later. But if the artic cooler works then ill probably go with it. Im just afraid it may not be good enough. Does it just barely keep it in good temperature or does it do a pretty good job? I don't know anything about coolers and have always used stock.

thanks
 
Our point is that air coolers aren't making any big "jumps" in tech in the foreseeable future, so you're better off spending $40 now than $20 now and $40 later.
 
After doing some research on the artic cooling freezer 7 pro I think i'll go with that. The zerotherm looks very nice but the artic cooler is cheaper and still does the job fine, and I don't plan on upgrading anytime soon after this.
thanks
 
If you're going for a Core 2 Duo or Pentium Dual-Core don't get the Freezer 64 Pro! It only works on Socket 939/AM2 AMD motherboards. What you want is the Freezer 7 Pro; it is made for Socket 775 and uses the same mounting mechanism as the stock Intel cooler.
 
Ohh ok thanks for clearing that up. I thought they were both the same thing :p

Just a few questions stop me from buying the parts right now....

1) I was thinking a gigabyte or galaxy 8800gt(listed both on first post) which one should I get? Should I get a different brand? I was thinking galaxy because of the good rebates/discounts and gigabyte because of the new gigabyte architecture thing I read about in the video card forum.

2) Is PCI-E 2.0 needed for anything? Will I be upgrading to it anytime soon? Other then that the Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3L looks like a nice mobo
 
bazookaworm said:
1) I was thinking a gigabyte or galaxy 8800gt(listed both on first post) which one should I get? Should I get a different brand? I was thinking galaxy because of the good rebates/discounts and gigabyte because of the new gigabyte architecture thing I read about in the video card forum.
Click to expand...

Gigabyte and Galaxy are both good because they have non-reference cooling; the reference cooler on the 8800 GT is very loud and not all that great with cooling. On the other hand, EVGA/BFG/XFX are better for warranty and customer service should you need it (though not sure how good they are to Canadians). So it comes down to whether a better card (Gigabyte/Galaxy) or better service (EVGA/BFG/XFX) is more important to you.

bazookaworm said:
2) Is PCI-E 2.0 needed for anything? Will I be upgrading to it anytime soon? Other then that the Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3L looks like a nice mobo
Click to expand...

No, unless you want to get a 3870 X2 dual-GPU graphics card (and even there it's questionable), PCI-E 2.0 isn't needed and won't be for at least a couple more years. PCI-E 2.0 graphics cards work just fine in PCI-E 1.x slots and with no performance penalty (like my 8800 GTS 512MB on my P35C-DS3R). You generally need more expensive motherboards with more expensive chipsets to get PCI-E 2.0 right now anyway; no P35 board will have it.
 
Alright I think im going to go with the Galaxy card. The 512mb is a plus too :) going to order the parts now.(or once i find the best vendors for each)

thanks for all the help and suggestions...it feels good to be almost out of agp now :D

edit: After asking a friend of mine about the build it looks like he has a E2180, hes had it for a month and never oc'd it and is offering to sell it to me for $50 ...bargain!
 
Glad to help. :) One more thing: the Galaxy version you linked to does have the reference cooler after all. I'd get this one instead. $10 CAD cheaper even. :) If you're going to go with Galaxy, might as well get the better one.
 
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