AGP 7800GTX PETITION

Good luck with that. I don't agree with it, but good luck anyway.

Holding on to older technologies is exactly why we don't move forward faster. Its why we still have floppy drives and its why we are still using magnetic/mechanical hard drives. As well as CD-Roms instead of DVD's for installing games.

I applaud companies like Apple, ATi, Nvidia and Intel who say "F"&%*^ that. You can't have it. Time to upgrade bucko."

That's my $02. My guess is that Nvidia won't do it. Getting thousands of signatures won't even gaurantee that they will do it. Though enough signatures and it would show interest in the card which might pursuade them into doing it. Chances are though, if they haven't got an AGP variant planned yet, more than likely by the time a AGP variant was designed and validated, R520 or something else would literally be right on top of it.
 
I tend to think nVIDA won't do it either. But .... if ATI does an AGP R520 nVIDA will do it.
 
I'm sure a 7800 AGP will come in time, right now they hope by having the 7800 PCI-E only they can sell a few nForce4 chipsets by getting people to upgrade. Give them 6 months then they'll make an AGP version.
 
True, in another thread i also linked a few NF4 S754 PCIe boards, and i think a few more are on he way with other companies. Not many- but enough to allow someone with a 3000 to 3700+ to just get a $80.00 board and use a PCIe card until they decide to movve on to a 3800+-FX57 or X2 and S939....so i think it's going to be ok for AGP people no matter what for a while. They can go NF4 PCIe S754 or get a great price on an AGP 6800 Ultra (if that's enough for them once they fall in price).
 
Eh...The only reason I can see myself buying this card is for BF2, either that, or I can drop the resolution one step down and save $600. After BF2, PC gaming is going to be purty damn dead till Unreal 3.0, which will require me to upgrade AGAIN.

I think i'll wait.
 
Circuitbreaker8 said:
till Unreal 3.0, which will require me to upgrade AGAIN.
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The first Unreal 3 engine demos were on a 6800U, the Ut2K7 demo shown at the Nvidia lan
was shown at 12x10 on SLI GTX's (and looked damn smooth). So depending on your settings people with single GTX's
will run the game fine...and SLI setups will play even better.
 
Gaming will DEFINITLY not be dead till unreal tournament 2007, I mean thier Elderscrolls4:Oblivion, Age of Empires 3, Black & White 2, and fear and stalker, also more games then that are on they way, NO WAY IS IT DEAD.
 
I personally do not see this happening ... but if the demand from companies like Asus, XFX and BFG is big, nVidia will produce a AGP version of this.
 
sculelos said:
Gaming will DEFINITLY not be dead till unreal tournament 2007, I mean thier Elderscrolls4:Oblivion, Age of Empires 3, Black & White 2, and fear and stalker, also more games then that are on they way, NO WAY IS IT DEAD.
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Black and White 2? lol. If I want to pet and feed an animal I will go to the zoo.
 
If you have an AGP system you have absolutely no need to upgrade to a 7800. A 6800 GT will be fine. An x800xl will work too.
 
My open letter to AGP:

AGP,

Please die.

kthx,
Hornswoggler

Progress people, progress. Can we move forward with technology now? Or are you still busy clinging onto old stuff?

Why not bring back VESA Local Bus while we are at it???!!!??? :confused:
 
if any of u would read nvidias site they say the only way there gonna make the 7800 a agp card is with mass petitions they need a very large demand for it before there gonna make it
 
gosh! you guys just wait.. an agp version "SHOULD" be coming... like the 6600gt... was pci-express only..then 1-2 months later an agp version came out..just wait...
 
Online petitions are worth the paper they're printed on.

When AMD talks about 'demand', they're looking for people who are actually going to spend the money to buy one - an online petition like this is most likely going to 50% or more full of jobless 15yr-old !!!!!!s who are still running the GF4mx in their Dell.
 
i am waiting for a albatron then. lol Someone is bound to give us agp and if nvidia cards don't then ati will since they know where the money is.
 
aZn_plyR said:
gosh! you guys just wait.. an agp version "SHOULD" be coming... like the 6600gt... was pci-express only..then 1-2 months later an agp version came out..just wait...
Click to expand...

The difference is in the market the 6600GT was meant for. Mid range cards have a larger market. Very few 6800GT's or Ultra's are sold compared to the mid and low end cards.

AGP makes up a small portion of high end users. Many of the types of people who buy really high end upgrade fairly often. Or will simply wait until their next build and do a completely new system.

Nvidia probably figures that since many 6800GT/Ultra owners probably have gone S939 and PCI-Express by now, and if not they will do so very soon. PCI-E has been around for well over a year overall and has been adopted by OEM's and even in the DIY market pretty fast. I don't think they envision to many people purchasing AGP 7800GTX's.
 
Sir-Fragalot said:
The difference is in the market the 6600GT was meant for. Mid range cards have a larger market. Very few 6800GT's or Ultra's are sold compared to the mid and low end cards.

AGP makes up a small portion of high end users. Many of the types of people who buy really high end upgrade fairly often. Or will simply wait until their next build and do a completely new system.

Nvidia probably figures that since many 6800GT/Ultra owners probably have gone S939 and PCI-Express by now, and if not they will do so very soon. PCI-E has been around for well over a year overall and has been adopted by OEM's and even in the DIY market pretty fast. I don't think they envision to many people purchasing AGP 7800GTX's.
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ok makes sense....dont really care if it goes agp or not now..since my next upgrade would be pci-express anyways...hehehee
 
Hornswoggler said:
My open letter to AGP:

AGP,

Please die.

kthx,
Hornswoggler

Progress people, progress. Can we move forward with technology now? Or are you still busy clinging onto old stuff?

Why not bring back VESA Local Bus while we are at it???!!!??? :confused:
Click to expand...

Dear Mr Hornswoggler,

There is a reason to switch to PCIE sir, as there are still 32 busses on the ports to be used. There isnt a signeifent increse in AGP 8x to PCIE, or SLI, because unlike you maybe, some of us are poor. Keep that in mind.

sinserly,
AGP~



soulsaver_8229
 
Since they build the highest model first then model keeps going down (ex. 7600, 7500, blah)
There would likely be an AGP version of it. AGP will die in the 8000 series though, probably. By then, there will be a AGP-X. yess..
 
Here is a better reply from me:

Hornswoggler said:
AGP will be around for quite a while for BUDGET SYSTEMS.

Right now, AGP still resides in mainstream and mid-range enthusiast systems. When these companies come out with their neutered versions, I bet AGP will be supported. Heck, I'm sure there are still some counter-strike players using PCI graphics cards. haha.

The 7800 is NOT A BUDGET OR MAINSTREAM PART. Cards like the 7800GTX are aimed strictly at the HIGH END, where it will be combined with some of the fastest CPU's.

Chances are, if your system still have AGP, a couple of conditions will be true:
a) you don't have the budget to buy a $600 video card, hence this market segment should be of no interest to you.
b) your CPU will probably be the bottleneck anyways.

Some reasons nvidia (and probably ATI) want to move things towards PCI express:
- if they are manufacturing both AGP and pci express parts, they almost double the number of models they produce.
- SLI


So for those of you petitioning for an AGP version of the 7800GTX, I have to ask:
If you cannot afford a new motherboard, can you really afford a $600 video card???
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hornsbooger...look man, stop acting like u invented the technology. It's all good and most of us are moving to it sooner or later. But money isn't made on moving fast like you think technology should move.

Believe me, this is a strategy based decision on Nvidia with the bottom line intent on producing an AGP card for the masses.
 
soulsaver_8229 said:
Dear Mr Hornswoggler,

There is a reason to switch to PCIE sir, as there are still 32 busses on the ports to be used. There isnt a signeifent increse in AGP 8x to PCIE, or SLI, because unlike you maybe, some of us are poor. Keep that in mind.

sinserly,
AGP~



soulsaver_8229
Click to expand...

The reasons to switch to PCI-E are numerous. Although I have no idea what you are talking about. Your statement makes little sense to me anyway.

PCI-E is about more than bandwidth. Its about flexability, and I/O performance. Not just speed, but efficiency. It requires less trace paths than AGP/PCI systems require, so electrically its simplified. Additionally it uses a serialized protocol and can transmit data in both directions simultaneously, something PCI/AGP systems can not do. CPU utilization is also lowered with PCI-Express. PCI-Express also replaces both PCI and AGP specifications which are woefully outdated. RAID controllers, Gigabit Ethernet adapters and of course video cards can be castrated by the current standards. Or in the case of AGP, in a couple of generations it would be.

Lets not forget about PEG specifications either. Not only is it faster and more flexible than AGP, but it provides much more power than current AGP slots can. Up to 75watts of energy can be provided through the slot. Eliminating the need for dedicated power from the power supply to be connected to mid range and low end video cards. PCI-Express also allows for things like the Turbo Cache 6200 which offers very solid performance for a $50 video card. This type of caching isn't possible on PCI or AGP cards. Of course I shouldn't need to explain the bennefits of multiple video cards for professionals and gamers.

Clowning said:
Since they build the highest model first then model keeps going down (ex. 7600, 7500, blah)
There would likely be an AGP version of it. AGP will die in the 8000 series though, probably. By then, there will be a AGP-X. yess..
Click to expand...

None of us can know the future. NVidia hasn't announced an AGP version of the card at this time. Until they do it doesn't exist. No one knows of any concrete plans to make one. If we did, this thread wouldn't have started. Or it would have died shortly after being posted.
 
PCI-E is about more than bandwidth. Its about flexability, and I/O performance. Not just speed, but efficiency. It requires less trace paths than AGP/PCI systems require, so electrically its simplified. Additionally it uses a serialized protocol and can transmit data in both directions simultaneously, something PCI/AGP systems can not do. CPU utilization is also lowered with PCI-Express. PCI-Express also replaces both PCI and AGP specifications which are woefully outdated. RAID controllers, Gigabit Ethernet adapters and of course video cards can be castrated by the current standards
Click to expand...

are we there yet? :D
 
Uh nvidia only makes chips, not cards. Some manufacturer will probably make token mainstream cards. It makes no sense to split a relatively low volume product like the 7800GTX into 2 SKUs.
 
I can't believe some of the posts I'm seeing.

I guarantee you my skt 754 3700+ could make REALLY good use out of an AGP 7800. I can imagine anyone who invested early with skt 754 and has at least a 3200+ being pissed as hell about this. If you own one of these you already know that benchmarks for skt 939/PCI-e and skt 939/agp (how pissed are these people) are marginally better if at all. The people who are cheering for forced upgrades are morons. To all of the technical "guru's" spouting about bus widths and power requirements. (and sounding ignorant) There is no argument you could make about pci-e versus agp bus that would be relevant to power/bandwidth requirements of 7800 and the performance that could be achieved by current agp users.
 
wrangler said:
I can't believe some of the posts I'm seeing.

I guarantee you my skt 754 3700+ could make REALLY good use out of an AGP 7800. I can imagine anyone who invested early with skt 754 and has at least a 3200+ being pissed as hell about this. If you own one of these you already know that benchmarks for skt 939/PCI-e and skt 939/agp (how pissed are these people) are marginally better if at all. The people who are cheering for forced upgrades are morons. To all of the technical "guru's" spouting about bus widths and power requirements. (and sounding ignorant) There is no argument you could make about pci-e versus agp bus that would be relevant to power/bandwidth requirements of 7800 and the performance that could be achieved by current agp users.
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Yes your system is good enough for it, but NVidia doesn't believe there are enough people in your situation that would be willing to buy the card. The uber high end card market is small. Face it most of those people are willing to upgrade even if you aren't. You'll need alot more than 1000 people to get nVidia to publicly endorse an AGP version of the card.

Additionally there are some PCI-E S754 board comming out or are out already. As others have pointed out, if you want bleeding edge performance and you can't afford a $100 motherboard, you shouldn't worry about $600 video cards.
 
I signed it :D

I'll upgrade my processor to an Athlon X2 befor I dump this motherboard with AGP.
Allthough, when Socket M2 is out I'll most likely end up with PCI-E :p
 
I signed for the fun of it. I see there are now 731 signatures. I will post this on off-topic.net

\EDIT: I posted a link on off-topic, crap, practically ignored. But I also posted it on the Unreal Tournament 2004 forum. :D
 
Sir-Fragalot said:
Yes your system is good enough for it, but NVidia doesn't believe there are enough people in your situation that would be willing to buy the card. The uber high end card market is small. Face it most of those people are willing to upgrade even if you aren't. You'll need alot more than 1000 people to get nVidia to publicly endorse an AGP version of the card.

Additionally there are some PCI-E S754 board comming out or are out already. As others have pointed out, if you want bleeding edge performance and you can't afford a $100 motherboard, you shouldn't worry about $600 video cards.
Click to expand...


I have to agree here. I believe AGP is dead regarding the high end. Ohterwise the board makers would not be making pci-e/754 boards
 
Hornswoggler said:
S754 should die too! :p
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I read AMD's roadmap and they only plan a single core Sempron 3800+ for the socket M2. That will be the only Sempron then a bunch of Athlons. They plan however to release a Sempron 3700+. Since they already announced 64 bit Semprons are coming out, it will probably be 64 bit as well.

I think that will probably be the most powerful cheap computer EVER! Of course, it's going to come out at the same time as dual cores will be getting cheaper. However, I want to see how UT2007 does on single core benchmarks before I even consider a dual core. After all, you can get Win98SE compatible motherboards like the Abit KV8 Pro. :D
That might allow me to run a triple boot computer (Win98SE, WinXP Pro, Longhorn).
Too sweet. :cool:

\EDIT: And by that time, you might be able to get a 6800 GT real cheap as well.
 
Just for the record, I don't care :)...BUT...I think it is funny how the AGP crowd is lining up to spend money for a $600 vid card, but whines about spending an additional $80-120 for a new mobo. If you can explain to me why you want to keep your AGP mobo without some reference to price for a new one, maybe I'll listen, but until then just use your 6800GT and be happy.

Or maybe I'll sign the petition "Mike Hunt" and see how seriously they take it ;).
 
The new mobo idea right now is a little odd. They're going to come out with socket M2. And besides, I read on theinquirer.net that Nvidia has made a formal request to the agency that regulates the standards for PCI-E to raise the amount of power fed to the video card. If it does get approved, I could see that only be adopted when socket M2 comes out. Of course, this is all pure speculation. :p
 
My guess would be thay NVIDA will put out a very limited number of chips to a few manufacturers to produce the AGP 7800GTX. Probably MSI or XFX will sell some. It won't be the S754 guys that will be so pissed that there would not be one as much the pissed S939 PCIe doofuses right here in this thread mad about AGP still hanging around that will be pissed if anyone does make an AGP 7800GTX. There will be so many S939 people that are running ower end S939 processors because they have a great overclocking motherboard. Likewise, there are S754 boards that can keep up with the S939 boards tit for tat. The DFI Lan Party NF3 250GB will keep up with an S939 board until you start to get into 57 and X2 territory. 7800GTX AGP would sell just about as well with AGP as with PCIe.Who cares if it needs two power connectors for AGP. Plenty of us S754 people have PSU's that will handle it. But if more S754 PCIe motherboards come out i think it won't matter anyway - plenty of S754 people will just get a 'stop gap' cheaper PCie S754 NF4 mobo just to run the 7800GTX itself. Worry about another mainboard when X2 or FX57 are more mainstream and more affordable.
 
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