No, I would say that ppl don't hate the idea, they're just too goddamned cheap to spend some money for a better game experience. PC buyers/gamers have gotten used to getting something for nothing for so long (like freeware, downloading free music & vids, cheap blowout prices on last gen hardware, etc.) that they expect it now.
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Ageia Physx a "mod" for UT3?
- Thread starter category_five
- Start date
No, I would say that ppl don't hate the idea, they're just too goddamned cheap to spend some money for a better game experience. PC buyers/gamers have gotten used to getting something for nothing for so long (like freeware, downloading free music & vids, cheap blowout prices on last gen hardware, etc.) that they expect it now.
I call BS on this.
I've plunked for 8800 sli and all liquid cooling. The asked $145 for this product isn't expensive at all compared to the rest of my system.
I don't want this in Unreal though. I wouldn't want physx gameplay in a fast run and gun game and I'm very pleased it won't be in there. I'd even plunk for the card and integrated game play in another game, but not Unreal. Even if I had one I'd stick to levels that didn't use it at all.
On every unreal forum I've seen nobody wants what this offers in the game, required of the card or not. The only people slightly interested in it are those who already bought it and were hoping U3 would help save it.
The reactions to the Tornado mod level were entertaining to say the least.
Kudos to Epic for listening.
you're entitled to your opinion as always, but may I venture to ask WHY you don't want it in unreal? as far as I can see, it would offer a great many more options for the combat and how to interact with the environment. I'm talking about effects like more particulate explosions that can kill opponents with the shrapnel. shooting stacks of blocks, etc. and tumbling them onto enemies for the kill.
of course, I can't come up with every possible idea for interacting with phsyics in the game but I can see that it has some pretty big potential for gameplay-altering effects. that's why I'm interested in your statement that you'd be okay with it in any other game than Unreal.
Because I do not want any of that in a true DM/CTF game, I also wouldn't tolerate them in Quake or any other fast paced DM game. It would ruin it completely and remove the entire great game logic they have been built on.
If it's in another slow paced game, I'm fine with it. If it's in a single player game I'm fine with it. But never in a fast paced online DM/CTF style game. I'd rather them not release the game at all then release it with that sort of game ruining junk.
I remember when the entire specter of phsyx started looming, fact is the vast majority of unreal fans never wanted it to start with. The people that do are only the ones that already invested in it and have been praying that Unreal forcing it would prevent the product from sinking. Don't ruin a great game to bail out a product.
Looks like Epic listed to it's fan base and decided not to go with it, best decision they ever made.
thanks for the response but you still haven't actually addressed the WHY question? What do you think it would do? How do you fear/think it would alter gameplay?
Gorankar
[H]F Junkie
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svetam, I can't speak for him.. But, I am currently against it in online games: because of network limitations and the fact that unless we are talking "ppu only" for the game, (which would be idiotic at this point in time), we would be left with just effects physics anyway and not game play physics.. Because the majority of players do not have a ppu, and prolly are not interested in getting one.. Effects physics is already being done without the ppu.. Let's get the ppu properly integrated into the single player world b4 trying to get into the mp world..
It is good that they at least got a mod so that the ppu gamers can have some extra effects and such..
Edit: and messing around too much with a mega fan base game like UT will really piss off a lot of people... Pissed off people have a tendency to spend their money else ware.. Epic does not want that...
It is good that they at least got a mod so that the ppu gamers can have some extra effects and such..
Edit: and messing around too much with a mega fan base game like UT will really piss off a lot of people... Pissed off people have a tendency to spend their money else ware.. Epic does not want that...
We almost didn't play UT online. First a MOD on we liked. But in LAN or mostly with Bot's in LAN.
So for me they can push the Gameplay PhysX to the MaX.
Also They have this time singleplayer part in it. In that mode Put PhysX gameplay to the max is no problem. A PhysX extreem setting.
And the PPU isn't specific for gameplay PhysX i can also do EffectPhysics. The difference is there is no interaction so it doesn't push the netload through the ceiling.
Coop with 4 player. LAN or heavy online connection could do. Does it get's Coop for the single player?
Don't Like DM, CTF isn't my favorite but play that in LAN.
My FPS preference is more slow pace Tactical realism shooter.
It's more the total conversions I'am interested in.
So for me they can push the Gameplay PhysX to the MaX.
Also They have this time singleplayer part in it. In that mode Put PhysX gameplay to the max is no problem. A PhysX extreem setting.
And the PPU isn't specific for gameplay PhysX i can also do EffectPhysics. The difference is there is no interaction so it doesn't push the netload through the ceiling.
Coop with 4 player. LAN or heavy online connection could do. Does it get's Coop for the single player?
Don't Like DM, CTF isn't my favorite but play that in LAN.
My FPS preference is more slow pace Tactical realism shooter.
It's more the total conversions I'am interested in.
Where are you getting this bit of noise from? AFAIK, UT3 WILL have PhysX enabled and will be able to take advantage of a PPU card, though it may be in only a few maps to start.
BTW - I go to the forums at unrealtournament3.com regularly. There are several peeps there (including myself) that would like to see PhysX in UT3, and they're not just current owners of a PPU.
So the question is: why are you spewing so much BS about this?
It has nothing to do with being cheap. It has to do with the PhysX card being a poor value. It offers virtually nothing for today's games and doesn't seem to have much going for it tomorrow either.
I disagree. I think additional physics processing above and beyond the norm can have a place in any game as long as it doesn't detract from the rest of the experience. I'm interested in it for UT3, but I doubt it will give us anything beyond what it does for GRAW1&2 which is of little interest to me.
First off I only plan online TDM/1v1/CTF.
In all of those the entire game depends on keeping the map completely static to work. This is why they work well and hold well.
Having destructible environments kills this. I would never play a fast paced shooter like this.
At high level play, or even slightly above average play, having a static map and your ability to control is it what defines current twitch shooters. Remove that and you might as well remove all skill from it and call it something else.
I don't have anything against it in single player only games, or slow realism shooters though.
IE the worst forums possible for the game. Epics own forums have always been over moderated and full of the lowest caliber scrubs of the game, and then uses their power to enforce certain views. If you even mention cheat protection there the thread goes bye-bye and then probably ban you.
Go to prounreal, beyondunreal, unrealnorth, or any of the sites driven by people that actually play the games constantly for the game play and watch the stance there.
If it's heavily integrated into the game, expect those maps to be quickly removed from private servers (the majority) and removed from all online leagues/ladders/groups really fast.
Epic isn't that stupid.
Again, I'd want it in single player, or slow realism shooters. But I'd rather not play a fast DM style shooter at all then play one with physX.
Just because you can add something into a game and change up the gameplay doesn't mean you should.
I think Destructiveness doesn't have so large impact on fast action gameplay.
Destruction only give you other means to Kill and Path through the gamefield.
It will stil be very fast action gameplay.
The difference between Fast and slow pace is.
1 ) Fast respawn vs Dead till the end of the round.
2 ) High speed movement vs Realistic movement
3 ) Move like a fly vs Stamina and anti jump bunnyhop restrictions
Destructive enviorments have no influence on this. The differnece for destructiveness and static is this.
1 ) Pathing is dynamic vs static
2 ) bot need to be a lot smatter for Pathing.
3 ) Indirect PhysX kills.
The large influence on gameplay is the Pathing. A Map must be balance differently.
But it can be still very fast action gameplay.
Then Destructiveness can be implementen in gradations.
Like all objects in the map can be destroyed. But there is a core static map in it.
So you still have static pathing but much more interaction in a map with objects in the enviorment.
So your inability to adopt to dynamic pathing is your problem.
It's just another flavor of DM CTF gameplay. It's more dynamical. The core gameplay stay's the same.
I prefere those
So it common practise to remove static cTF/ TDM maps you don't like. But others might do. Gamers are not alike and the amount of maps are there to offer somthing for a broad audience. that means for the average game would like 65 to 85% of the maps. Where games like a different set of games.
Stupid it's stupid that Epic make a game special for just one kind of gamer wich would ristrict sales to only that group. to offer a wider range of type of maps they reach a large part of the market. And you just Play the maps you like.
It more sound like a I want all maps to be made for my preference and screw all other players. No maps for them.
Other people would
I think EPIC mostly adds effect PhysX with PPU. So your preference is saved. Only a few or one map might be PPU enhanced Gameplay Physics. That doesn't mean it would be a Full Destructable map. that a choice dev's have to use what Physics Feature mix they want. And at what level or scale and Phsyics resolution. Destructive ness is just one. And also can be done restricted to objects and soft structures.
No I can adapt, I just think it would ruin it.
IE 2d vs 3d fighters. Both have their own points, no need to ruin one to make the other. Let true DM games stay DM, let realism become more real.
Unreal isn't a realism game, make it so and you crank out a pile of crap that the community didn't want.
And the core gameplay does not stay the same at all, to say so is silly. The core of Unreal and Quake revolves around static maps and static items, with static respawn times. Remove that and you might as well make everything random, just click in and win or lose, yes non static gameplay at it's finest.
The non static maps will be removed. I was a reff for a large cash gaming league for a season of unreal and played for one of the better teams, helped run the one of the sites UTcomp was distributed from and ran several events. They will be removed, this isn't a question of if, just if they make it past the demo.
That one kind of gamer you mention are the few PPU fans that prayed this game would save it, the game didn't, it listened to the masses, it's done.
That all said, I'd love to see it done in a single player game and I'd love to have a reason to buy one. But this game is a reason not to buy one at all.
IE 2d vs 3d fighters. Both have their own points, no need to ruin one to make the other. Let true DM games stay DM, let realism become more real.
Unreal isn't a realism game, make it so and you crank out a pile of crap that the community didn't want.
And the core gameplay does not stay the same at all, to say so is silly. The core of Unreal and Quake revolves around static maps and static items, with static respawn times. Remove that and you might as well make everything random, just click in and win or lose, yes non static gameplay at it's finest.
The non static maps will be removed. I was a reff for a large cash gaming league for a season of unreal and played for one of the better teams, helped run the one of the sites UTcomp was distributed from and ran several events. They will be removed, this isn't a question of if, just if they make it past the demo.
That one kind of gamer you mention are the few PPU fans that prayed this game would save it, the game didn't, it listened to the masses, it's done.
That all said, I'd love to see it done in a single player game and I'd love to have a reason to buy one. But this game is a reason not to buy one at all.
[21CW]killerofall
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If you don't like the maps that have physx enabled then just don't play them. Gaming leagues' wants and rules won't have any affect on what maps there are in UT3 and I would put money on that fact. The leagues can just make their own versions of the maps if they so desire.
Alot of old schoolers fear change. I'm actually the opposite, I encourage and eagerly await change. It just doesn't happen fast enough for me.
[21CW]killerofall;1031472768 said:
Never said they would affect what's in the game as shipped.
But the vast majority of servers aren't run by epic, they are run by clans or fans. When maps are removed from leagues and ladders, that trickles down and blamo servers reflect that. Hence why all the active servers in UT or Quake are nearly carbon copies of what the leagues run.
Leagues even rip out extra details and graphics, servers run that also.
It's just the way it works.
I'll go one further and help bury this issue. The most popular epic servers are demo only, ie the map that runs the best stock, kiss PPU goodbye (and this won't change since demo is demo and needs to get people). Past that, not a damn server they've ever run uses a mod, the mod servers are comp mods (kiss PPU goodbye again). So you're talking having those maps on those freak crazy mod servers nobody in their right mind plays.
Let's also not forget how comp servers tend to take over with comp mods and comp maps.
It has little to do with "old school"ness, more to do with not screwing things up.
UT and Quake are like paintball or other non real items. Fast paced yet static, anything else sucks and screws it up.
I want physX in single player, or realism games. I really see the future here, and those games are based off war and should be like it.
But paintball where you could destroy things, or soccer where you could blow up the goal, that's idiotic, ditto for physX in DM/CTF.
In the end, it will be dead in the water for UT3, and driven further into the ground as soon as the game gets on GGL/CPL/WCG and ladders form up.
I can't agree with you at all. No matter how many points you make, I can visualize how it could add to gameplay rather than detract from it. It's up to the game developers to use physics processing correctly for each mode of gameplay in the game. Let's not forget that right now it's usually just use to make extra chunkies come out of explosions and it performs very little else in the way of functions. (Going by GRAW 1 & 2) and I don't think it will effect gameplay in any significant way just as it has failed to do so in any other games to date.
There is no sense worrying about it because it won't be an earth shattering improvement or hinderance.
I agree that worrying is silly, because I think physX is dead in the water and there isn't a chance in hell of that changing.
However that Tornado level has to be the most craptastic gaming level I've ever seen in my life for a DM/CTF style game.
As per GRAW1/2 and just enhanced visual physX, that's also stupid. Most mid level or above players run 800x600 and remove all visual detail in DM/CTF (hell even in some realism shooters) because it gives you a good advantage over some poor sap trying to make things look pretty. Unreal is famous for people tweaking their configs to the point the game looks no better then Quake2.
Tossing in more visual clutter only gives the above average an even greater advantage since they won't deal with it to begin with, tossing in gameplay physX makes sure those levels die off fast.
And this brings up another issue. Anybody using physX for extra chunkies is either playing to lose and look at pretty stuff, or doesn't know his ass from his elbow in DM.
I realize that trying to argue gameplay on a hardware forum is rather silly and futile to start with, but facts are facts. DM and CTF at above scrub level are played where every power up (or gun in the case of DM) is timed to the second, and static levels are the key to fast movement and unit cohesion (TDM and CTF), remove that and it's scrub fest don't even bother to get skills and just fire off randomly, spray and pray.
Unreal houses another idiotic problem, the hit scan weapons are extremely over powered. Hence why you're an idiot if you allow any visual clutter in it. If you allow people to blast down walls and destroy things this problem gets worse.
This is a single player only item, or a multiplayer where the goal isn't to win or skill but just to recreate something, ie realism.