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Ageia Physx a "mod" for UT3?

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category_five

Limp Gawd
Joined
Sep 10, 2004
Messages
193
From the ->Article<-(theinquirer.net)

Here's the worrying thing for PPU fans - Ageia is describing the footage as being of a "mod" for Unreal Tournament 3. "In-game footage of a Physx-powered mod" is the exact phrase. Now far be it from us to read too much into language, but doesn't that rather imply that the hardcore PhysX action is not going to be integrated into the core gameplay experience, but that a choose-to-install mod will be the focus of the action instead?
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Personally I'm disappointed. If Ageia faseplants (as it seems well on its way to) it will just make the other companies more hesitant to step up to the plate to spearhead physics that affect core game mechanics.
 
Whats new?

Epic gamers are online games and PPU targetmarket is so small
That puting all resources on PPU gameplay Physics would leave mainstream out.
And online Play would be undoable with the gameplay Phsycs net code utilisation.

It is expected that most games will use PPU and GPGPU as effectphysics accelerators if they going to support it.
The only realistic expectaion is something like Graw2 did. One or Few Physics heavy maps that requier a PPU. Wich is a large effort off the devs for a small target market and must be praised for doing so.
Just like Warmonger leaves the whole world out of play except the PPU owners.
Online and Phsyics Gameplay net load is a PPU gameplay Physics feature stopper.

I to like to see a Dev making a Unreal 3 engine based singleplayer game with great story using optional very heavy gameplay Physics. small team LAN Coop would the max of multiplayer what they could aim for. Or 2 to 4 player online.resitriction.

So I don't mind Heavy PPU using mods for Unreal 3 that will push PPU to and the more off them the better. It also means that Mod community can make it's own Physics PPU haevy mods.
Unreal 3 might not push PPU that hard but the mod communit could. if PPU use is reachable through the unreal3 Editor tools.
 
I care not, for the majority of the potential PhysX hardware for UT3 has lies in custom content created for the game. So MOD or not, plenty of people hanging round the community forums (level designers, programmers etc) will still be able to have plenty of fun with it, which is all the counts in my opinion :)

EDIT: But at any rate, the API/Software engine part of PhysX is still in full effect, and the amount of physics usable software side is still amazing on a quad or even dual core these days. So it's still fun times
 
SuperGee said:
Whats new?

Epic gamers are online games
Click to expand...

Not true, actually. While UT has had one of the strongest online communities in gaming, Epic themselves said they went back to up the SP and bots experience after they're research surprised them showing a large majority of UT players NEVRE play the game online.

That said, I'm no fan of a proprietary PhysX card. Build the tech into the game and video so additional single-source hardware is not required, IMO.
 
SuperGee said:
I to like to see a Dev making a Unreal 3 engine based singleplayer game with great story using optional very heavy gameplay Physics. small team LAN Coop would the max of multiplayer what they could aim for. Or 2 to 4 player online.resitriction.
Click to expand...

I agree and the game developers need to make is AVP3!

Maybe, if enough of us ask Ageia to help fund developement on AVP3 as a PPU only game, will we finally see the killer application.
It would need tough requirements like SLI or Cross-fire only and 3Ghz dual core CPUs and 2 gigs ram and 5.1 Open Audio. Why? It will force upgrades for the next 5 years like Quake3 did. Make the game 2-16 by lan and 2-4 online due to bandwidth. The real thing will always be singleplayer though, alone at night, with that scary ass Alien and the invisible Predator. AVP3 is the "Killer App" and the UT3 engine can take it there.
Scary games like AVP3 will do better than all the bread and butter combat sims out there.
 
If Unreal 3 don't add physx hardware effects to the game it'll be a major flop to ppu. But it's a little soon to speculate. Let's wait and see.
 
Hort said:
Not true, actually. While UT has had one of the strongest online communities in gaming, Epic themselves said they went back to up the SP and bots experience after they're research surprised them showing a large majority of UT players NEVRE play the game online.
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Still it's a online aimed game. bot is a welcome extra effort.
I played Specialops modded UT mostly with Bots.
Reminds me off Batfield 1942.
RTCW with 2 player without bots sucks.
Only game I played online was AA:SF from 1.2.1 to 2.8.1
And tryied BF2 for a short time.
A'm more a LAN CooP player Graw2. Hidden&dangerous.
And mostly single player games.

Find it very disturbing that Dev's try enforce PPU on Online games and run into trouble, then merge it with a focused single player experience where you have the freedom of to stress the PPU to it's full potentional. With full gameplay PhysX
That said, I'm no fan of a proprietary PhysX card.
Click to expand...
That choice. Your choice only.
I prefere the choice you get.
You don't need PPU for games you can use it optional. Choice.
If you don't want to pay for it, you take the default Phsyics as max Physics level what CPU can handle that your choice.

While other want to push it higher and are willing to pay for it.
that free dom of choice.

Build the tech into the game and video so additional single-source hardware is not required, IMO.
Click to expand...
It already is. Sm3.0 or SM4,0 shader can do it and will.

But shader utilized for Phsyics arent use for rendering and most games will be overly GPU dependent and thus your FPS will suffice a performance hit.

You cant put a 8800GTS640+PPU agianst a 8800GTS640 with quantum
ass it performace like a 8800GTS640 with a shader handicap due less shaders. As they are bussy with Phsyics.

So the 8800GTS640 is cheaper but offer less performance So more or less Equal in Price performance.
A 8800GT6400 with 8600GTS would compete more directly.

but not benchable als that requiers a GPGPU/HavokFX and PhysX supporting game.
 
did anyone here actually read the article or the source that the inquirer had? if you had you'd realize that they are NOT saying the PhysX support is a post-release mod.

Instead, the DEMO they are showing is the MOD. PhysX support is still a native part of UE3 (read the AGEIA and UE3 dev support pages on this topic), but the demo level that AGEIA has been showing is a mod level that utilizes the PhysX support more than most of the other levels in order to show off the power of the PPU.
 
I wonder is there any Unreal3 engine game out wich have the Unreal3Ed public in it?
Till now only the Reality engine: Reality builder is aviable true Cellfactor.
I guess the U3ED is a bit bulkier with features.
 
Paulo Narciso said:
If Unreal 3 don't add physx hardware effects to the game it'll be a major flop to ppu. But it's a little soon to speculate. Let's wait and see.
Click to expand...

UT3 WILL support PhysX. I will be buying a PPU card when UT3 hits, and no, I won't "wait for more games to support it".
 
I think there could be some amazing physx mods that could come out of this when UT3 hits. Anyone brainstorming any ideas for a potential mod utilizing the physx hardware?
 
Roboblitz comes with UnrealED 4.0, yeah. It's a tad cut down I believe, but fun can be had :)
 
Stick a fork in it, its done.

Its too bad. This idea was ok, but I think that Intel has their sights on total domination, and they're not going to ask Ageia for permission.

I'm still irked that when I buy GRAW/GRAW2 I'm forced to install and then uninstall the Ageia software.
 
Verge said:
says quad/oct core processors

and intel buying havoc
Click to expand...
As I have said in other threads, install base must reach a certain point before multi core processors can be utilised for game play.

Seeing how dual core is only just reaching a point were games are risking making it the minimum (Alan Wake) I'm with the above guy, don't hold your breath for quad and octo core physics in games (with or without the existence of the PPU).
 
aztec61 said:
ORLY? Says who?
Click to expand...

How many Ageia PPUs have been sold????
What triple A game has made it a "must have" item???

To the best of my knowlege BFG is the only vendor, correct.

I'm not trying to flame anyone or be a jerk.....but I cant see this as a viable product, maybe I'm wrong, who knows.:eek:
 
Only time will tell, folks. Who knows, it may stay a niche market for the foreseeable future until everyone has a gazillion core processor and ray-tracing gpus with DX25 (hyperbole intended). I for one hope hardware-accelerated physics becomes mainstream to help facilitate more innovative game design because gaming has gotten pretty stale and regurgitated for some time now IMO, and I've been gaming for over 2 decades. Not to say that there aren't any innovative titles on the market, but compared overall to the rest of the games out, there are only a very small percentage of titles. Sequelitis and Rehashes on old tried and true ideas with nice fancy graphics FTW! Time for some change, methinks. So unless the big boys come out with a better solution right now for gameplay physics, I'm gonna ride it out with Ageia into the fiery abyss of doom if that's what it takes, lol. My point in this little rant? Only time will tell, folks...
 
kumquatsrus said:
Only time will tell, folks. Who knows, it may stay a niche market for the foreseeable future until everyone has a gazillion core processor and ray-tracing gpus with DX25 (hyperbole intended). I for one hope hardware-accelerated physics becomes mainstream to help facilitate more innovative game design because gaming has gotten pretty stale and regurgitated for some time now IMO, and I've been gaming for over 2 decades. Not to say that there aren't any innovative titles on the market, but compared overall to the rest of the games out, there are only a very small percentage of titles. Sequelitis and Rehashes on old tried and true ideas with nice fancy graphics FTW! Time for some change, methinks. So unless the big boys come out with a better solution right now for gameplay physics, I'm gonna ride it out with Ageia into the fiery abyss of doom if that's what it takes, lol. My point in this little rant? Only time will tell, folks...
Click to expand...

QFT! I recall looking back at my game playing youth (the late 80s) and I recall that all of my favorite games were games of science (specifically physics) puzzles. It shouldn't be so hard to take some of these same principles and incorporate them into top-tier gameplay in titles like Half-Life, Quake, Doom, et al.
 
kumquatsrus said:
I for one hope hardware-accelerated physics becomes mainstream to help facilitate more innovative game design because gaming has gotten pretty stale and regurgitated for some time now ...
Click to expand...

I have to agree with that.
 
griff30 said:
I agree and the game developers need to make is AVP3!

Maybe, if enough of us ask Ageia to help fund developement on AVP3 as a PPU only game, will we finally see the killer application.
Click to expand...

Were you being sarcastic? If not then:
Why would Ageia throw money away making a ppu only AAA game?? It costs a lot of money to make a AAA title.. Money they would not be able to recoup from sales to such a teeny tiny market.. I would love to play a new AVP game, but not if I had to buy a ppu... I would wager that I am not alone in that.. If they ever did that I would be surprised if they could find a pub for a ppu only title at this point in time..

I'm glad they are at least making it as a mod for UT3.. So the ppu owners are not getting totally left without a use for their cards..
 
magoo said:
Forgot about ASUS. Never heard of Elsie or her sister.
Still wondering how many have been sold to anybody besides Alienware.

No triple A titles.
Click to expand...

You haven't heard of Elsa? How did you become 2[H]4U if you don't recall how much they dominated the video card market in the late 90s and early 2000s?
 
“Still wondering how many have been sold to anybody besides Alienware.”
HP and Dell sell them inside prebuilt systems among other companies. Overclockers also have there own branded Ageia PPU for sale.

Triple AAA just means the best of the best. There are still good games that support the PPU. Sims is triple AAA doesnt mean you want to play it. Fallout isnt as a triple aaa game buts lots of people think it's great.
 
You can bash me all you want.......I'm still not impressed.
I realize Dell also tries to peddle the uberLeet physics card......still like to see how many have been sold.
Sorry about Elsa......cant read Japanese, dont really care to.

Physics will become the realm of Intel-Havok, if they demand a separate card to run their solution, I'll get on board. Until then,meh.
 
svet-am said:
You haven't heard of Elsa? How did you become 2[H]4U if you don't recall how much they dominated the video card market in the late 90s and early 2000s?
Click to expand...

Name one card they made that was better than the 9800 Pro or the Ti 4 series from Nvidia.
 
svet-am said:
You haven't heard of Elsa? How did you become 2[H]4U if you don't recall how much they dominated the video card market in the late 90s and early 2000s?
Click to expand...

I was working. Sorry I missed those Elsie "hay days".:D
 
magoo said:
Physics will become the realm of Intel-Havok, if they demand a separate card to run their solution, I'll get on board. Until then,meh.
Click to expand...

You should be selling your crystal ball predictions to the rest of the industry - I'm sure they'd all like to avoid costly mistakes.

Didn't know you were holding one of the Palantir's over there. :rolleyes:
 
Name one card they made that was better than the 9800 Pro or the Ti 4 series from Nvidia.
Click to expand...
ELSA FALCOX&#8482; X190 CF
ELSA FALCOX&#8482; X190 XTX
ELSA FALCOX&#8482; X160 XT
ELSA FALCOX&#8482; X160 PRO
ELSA FALCOX&#8482; X80 PRO ViVo
ELSA FALCOX&#8482; X80 XT
ELSA GLADIAC&#8482; 760GS V2 DDR3
ELSA GLADIAC&#8482; 660GT

ELSA is just a hardware manufacturer just like ASUS or MSI, they had a strong European division, had tremendous capital problems late 90's-2000's, they changed their market target from high end cards to budget and mid videocards, seems the asian counterpart of the company is still selling high-end cards though, someone could provide more info to this, thank you.

You haven't heard of Elsa? How did you become 2[H]4U if you don't recall how much they dominated the video card market in the late 90s and early 2000s?
Click to expand...

I dunno guys but Magoo had no clue that Havok and Havok FX were two different products http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1223763 , didn't know the card was manufactured by at least 3 differents companies, and offerred by over 20 system builders and manufacturers...

-Acer (Europe)
Aspire E
-Alienware
Aurora&#8482; 7500
ALX&#8482;
Area-51®
-Biohazard
Annihilation
Abyss
Frostbyte
Nuclear Winter
-CyberPower Inc.
-Dell
XPS&#8482; 410
XPS 720
XPS 720 H2C
XPS 1730 (Mobile)
-Falcon Northwest
Mach V
Talon
-Fragbox
-HP
Blackbird 002
-Hypersonic PC
Sonic Boom
-Cyclone OCX h
-iBUYPOWER
-Maingear
-Medion
-Milwaukee PC
-Monarch Computer Systems
-NeXgamerz
-Polywell Computers
-Systemax
Wildcat
-Vadim
Fusion Intel
-Velocity Micro
-Vicious Gaming PC
Shadow
Commando
Paladin
Assassin
Extreme
-Voodoo PC
-Watford Electronics Ltd.
-XtremeGear
 
Ok, so if each one of those companies sold 1 PPU; that makes 20 or so, not counting yours I guess. Let's see you can use it with about.......three games???? Or did you buy it from that famous Japanese manufacturer ELSA??

I have never found this little corner of the forum very hospitable, let alone one with a sense of humor......good night,Lucy.:D

Yes, Havok physics and Havok FX are two different things.......the latter being designed for the GPU that hasnt materialized yet, either. (I have no allegence to either side.)(Havok,havok FX:tomato,tomatoe; sticks and stones boy, sticks and stones.)

But if I'm not mistaken, this card has been around for, I dont know, roughly two years and has a fan base that could fill half a junior high auditorium.......

and to the guy above me......besides stoning me......you have too much time on your hands........nice list.

It's not that I didn't know(there are lots of things I dont know) it's that I don't care to. This is technology looking for something to do, and about as fascinating as knowing about Japanese low-end video card manufacturers.
 
aztec61 said:
You should be selling your crystal ball predictions to the rest of the industry - I'm sure they'd all like to avoid costly mistakes.

Didn't know you were holding one of the Palantir's over there. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

What crystal ball.......lets see,largest CPU company in the world buys most common physics software developer.......not rocket science to figure out they will steam-roller this PPU deal.
Ageia hasn't even gotten off the ground.

Go to your BestBuy and ask the average customer: heard of Ageia or Intel......guess what the answer would be.......or does that take a crystal ball????
 
magoo said:
What crystal ball.......lets see,largest CPU company in the world buys most common physics software developer.......not rocket science to figure out they will steam-roller this PPU deal.
Ageia hasn't even gotten off the ground.
Click to expand...

Much can happen between now and whatever this turns out to be. CPU's don't do physics nearly as well as does a PPU, so Intel would have to do some amazing tricks to make that happen. Maybe they could put a PPU (or 2 PPU's) on-die and call it a "3+1" or "2+2" quad core. I dunno but I don't see that happening really.

It could be that they bought Havok to try and squelch further physics dev at all, so to keep their Q cores dominant. Who knows? But I've found trying to predict this crap is about as useful as trying to piss up a rope.
 
magoo said:
What crystal ball.......lets see,largest CPU company in the world buys most common physics software developer.......not rocket science to figure out they will steam-roller this PPU deal.
Ageia hasn't even gotten off the ground.

Go to your BestBuy and ask the average customer: heard of Ageia or Intel......guess what the answer would be.......or does that take a crystal ball????
Click to expand...
Intel is both the largest CPU and largest GPU company in terms of market share and how many they ship/sell.
 
This is great news for the majority of people that want to play Unreal.

Having a hardware requirement for a lot of the game will only hurt it. People won't buy the hardware but the levels that require it simply will not be played. Unreal servers typically only stock the best maps, ie the ones used in competition or the ones that everybody gets great frame rates on.

Going one further unreal is the type of game people want hectic type action, most people throttle down the GFX and don't want to much detail in it. Check unreal fan forums and you'll find most of them could care less about physx, or flat out hate the entire idea.

it would have been an idiotic decision on epics part to really push the chip, and they aren't that stupid.
 
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