After 7 years, its time for a new rig...opinions wanted please

H

hyper.nova

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Dec 29, 2013
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Hello all,

I've been running a 2GHz Opteron 146 with a Geforce 7800GTX and 2GB of RAM for several years and I think it is finally time for an upgrade :)

I've decided to go for a Mini-ITX in a SFF because I want something sleeker looking with a minimal footprint. I'm just tired of looking at my standard mid-size case. I'd like some opinions on the parts I've got selected so far please. Here are the answers to the SFF build thread template

1. What will you be doing with this PC?

Ubuntu will be my OS (I'm running that on my current rig) - this is my personal rig so I will be doing some gaming (I prefer FPS games - Quake and CS, whatever I can get to run under Wine), web browsing, music, light Photoshop, also some light virtualization when I need to spin up a VM to test something out (one of the reasons I'm avoiding K procs).

2. Will you be overclocking? (If so, are you looking to watercool?)

No.

3. What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included in this budget? Is your budget flexible? Is cost a driving factor in component selection?

Budget is flexible, honestly I have already gone a little higher than I would have liked mainly because I have to include new monitor, speakers, keyboard, and mouse as well for this build.

4. Where do you live? Do you have any big B&M (brick and mortar) computer chains nearby (e.g. Microcenter, Fry's, etc)?

US, no brick and mortar stores nearby.

5. What exact parts do you need for that budget? CPU, RAM, case, etc. The word "Everything" is not a valid answer. Please list out all the parts you'll need (especially if you will need 3.5" hard drives or expansion cards as these may restrict case options).

Um..I do need everything except a HDD ;). Motherboard, CPU, RAM, case/PSU, video card, monitor, mouse, keyboard, optical drive.

6. If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Please be especially specific about the power supply. For reused parts, list brands, model #s, and, if applicable, firmware revisions.

I have a 3.5'' HDD I'll bring over from my current rig.

7. What specific features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Thunderbolt? Crossfire or SLI support? How many USB 3.0 and SATA 6Gb/s? etc. Which is more important, size of the system or having the particular feature? Make sure you indicate *required* vs. *wanted* for each feature you list.

Well, first priority was finding a board that will work with Linux OK. I originally looked at cheaper boards from Asrock with the B85 and H87 chipsets, but I read a lot of user reviews with people complaining about Linux compatibility, specifically the LAN chipset. The Asrock board I have spec'd out now seems to work OK because of the Intel LAN chip, the only issue I've heard of is the Broadcom mini PCI-e Wifi card doesn't seem to work under Linux. Thus, I've spec'd out a substitute Intel n-6235.

I've also looked at the Gigabyte GA-H87N-WIFI which is a little cheaper, but I haven't been able to find a whole lot of info about its compatibility under Linux. Also, the audio chipset is a little older, not really sure if that is a huge difference, I am not an audiophile by any means, but I will be listening to my music on this so open to opinions.

8. What resolution output do you need? 4k playback, 1080p playback, etc for HTPC or give a vertical/horizontal resolution for gaming SFF rigs. Do you need multiple monitor output?

I'm looking at the Asus VS24AH-P 24'' 1920 x 1200 monitor since it seems to be a decent all around IPS. I really will want two monitors at some point, but not for gaming just for multitasking.

9. Does this system need to fit into a particular space and do you need an optical drive? Think entertainment center shelves, closet space, rackmount, etc.

Not really particular space requirements. I was originally looking at the Coolermaster 130 or the SG-10, but I decided I wanted to go with something a little smaller and less deep. I am including a notebook Blu-ray player. I seemed to have a tough time finding slim drives with quality reviews. I'm open to alternatives to this.

10. How comfortable are you with custom case design/modification and electrical wiring? What tools do you have (Screwdrivers/Leatherman, Drill, Dremel, Metal snips, Soldering Iron, Bending Brake, CNC/Welding machines/Plasma cutter, etc...)?

I can barely operate a screwdriver ;)

11. How important is the noise/silence of this sytem? HTPCs typically want to be quiet while all-out SFF gaming rigs don't care

Hmmm..been thinking about this. I'm OK if it is not totally silent, but not a jet engine either. Somewhere in between I guess when being pushed.

12. How mobile does this system need to be? Need a carrying handle or carrying straps? Is weight important (carry-on bag, etc)? Water cooling quick disconnects, etc?

Doesn't need to be too mobile. The small size itself will make it easy to carry.

13. Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? If yes, what OS? Is it 32bit or 64bit? Remember that OEM copies of Win7 have issues with new motherboards

Using Ubuntu

14. When do you plan on building/buying the PC? Immediately, in a couple weeks, 3-5 years?

Next 1-3 months. I've heard the new Nvidia Maxwell cards may be coming earlier than expected, wondering if it may be worth waiting to see if it pushes the cost of existing cards down?

Finally, I'm unsure about what to do for cooling. As you can see I spec'd out replacements for the stock Intel HSF and the stock 120mm fan. I'm wondering if this is wise though given I will not be overclocking. Do you think the stock fans will be fine? If not, how are the fans I've picked out?

Thanks for any feedback!

PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/2rVKz
Price breakdown by merchant: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/2rVKz/by_merchant/
Benchmarks: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/2rVKz/benchmarks/

CPU: Intel Core i5-4570 3.2GHz Quad-Core Processor ($199.99 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: Thermalright AXP-100 44.5 CFM Ball Bearing CPU Cooler ($69.90 @ Amazon)
Thermal Compound: Arctic Silver 5 High-Density Polysynthetic Silver 3.5g Thermal Paste ($8.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: ASRock Z87E-ITX Mini ITX LGA1150 Motherboard ($129.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: Mushkin Silverline 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($76.99 @ Newegg)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 760 2GB Video Card ($259.99 @ Newegg)
Wireless Network Adapter: Intel 6235AN.HMWWB 802.11a/b/g/n Half Mini-PCI-Express Wi-Fi Adapter ($23.82 @ Amazon)
Case: Silverstone SST-SG05BB-450-USB3.0 (Black) Mini ITX Desktop Case w/450W Power Supply ($114.98 @ Newegg)
Case Fan: Xigmatek XAF-F1256 75.3 CFM 120mm Fan ($15.99 @ Newegg)
Monitor: Asus VS24AH-P 24.0" Monitor ($241.99 @ Amazon)
Keyboard: Cooler Master CM Storm QuickFire XT Wired Slim Keyboard ($89.99 @ Amazon)
Mouse: Razer DeathAdder 2013 Wired Optical Mouse ($52.49 @ Amazon)
Speakers: M-Audio Studiophile AV40 40W 2ch Speakers ($119.99)
Other: LG Blu-ray Reader for Notebooks ($74.99)
Other: Silverstone CP10 Slim-SATA to SATA Adapter Cable ($8.99)
Total: $1489.08
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-12-29 18:59 EST-0500)
 
hyper.nova said:
...
8. What resolution output do you need? 4k playback, 1080p playback, etc for HTPC or give a vertical/horizontal resolution for gaming SFF rigs. Do you need multiple monitor output?

I'm looking at the Asus VS24AH-P 24'' 1920 x 1200 monitor since it seems to be a decent all around IPS. I really will want two monitors at some point, but not for gaming just for multitasking.
...
Click to expand...

My experience.. if you consider 2 screens at all, get 2 of the same together at the same time. These days, just 3-4 months later your particular model will be gone and you wind up with 2 different screens on your desk.

PS: you wont be disappointed. I bet, once you have 2 you wonder how you could get along with just one all the time.. ;)

PPS: I used 2x 19" LCDs (4:3) back in 1998 and since 2008 I'm using 2x 22" (16:9)..
 
I have the same chip/board combo on a Fedora-based workstation at home, it works well. I had some troubles booting with UEFI at first, but that has resolved itself.

I don't play games on my workstation but need to power 2 1440p monitors. I found an open-box GTX 630 w/2GB vmem and it works great, especially for the $60 it cost me. You may be able to save a bit on on the video card budget if you only need to power 1080p and tend to play older games. (i.e. no BF4,etc)

I have 2 VMs running constantly so I went for 16GB. For 8GB, you should be able to find a cheaper set, somewhere in the $55 range.

I know this isn't [H] but I would scale back on the cooler. You're budgeting almost $80 for HSF + paste, for $20 you can get a smaller aftermarket cooler that should work fine. I picked up an Artic Cooling Alpine 11 because it claims low noise. It does the trick but on that board will make contact with the memory modules so I wouldn't recommend. You should be able to find something smaller/cheaper that works well with lower noise levels.

I've had some success with the WiFi/BT card on the Z87E-ITX on Linux. With the beta build of F20 I was able to connect to my wireless network just fine. With the final build I don't see it any more, but haven't spent any time trying to figure out why since I'm wired. YMMV, but you might be able to save the cost of the wireless adapter.

You may be able to save some $$ by going MicroATX instead. I've had nothing but problems with the slimline BD/DVD readers and have vowed to never buy another one. Maybe I'm just unlucky. Good luck with the build!
 
hyper.nova said:
CPU: Intel Core i5-4570 3.2GHz Quad-Core Processor ($199.99 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: Thermalright AXP-100 44.5 CFM Ball Bearing CPU Cooler ($69.90 @ Amazon)
Thermal Compound: Arctic Silver 5 High-Density Polysynthetic Silver 3.5g Thermal Paste ($8.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: ASRock Z87E-ITX Mini ITX LGA1150 Motherboard ($129.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: Mushkin Silverline 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($76.99 @ Newegg)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 760 2GB Video Card ($259.99 @ Newegg)
Wireless Network Adapter: Intel 6235AN.HMWWB 802.11a/b/g/n Half Mini-PCI-Express Wi-Fi Adapter ($23.82 @ Amazon)
Case: Silverstone SST-SG05BB-450-USB3.0 (Black) Mini ITX Desktop Case w/450W Power Supply ($114.98 @ Newegg)
Case Fan: Xigmatek XAF-F1256 75.3 CFM 120mm Fan ($15.99 @ Newegg)
Monitor: Asus VS24AH-P 24.0" Monitor ($241.99 @ Amazon)
Keyboard: Cooler Master CM Storm QuickFire XT Wired Slim Keyboard ($89.99 @ Amazon)
Mouse: Razer DeathAdder 2013 Wired Optical Mouse ($52.49 @ Amazon)
Speakers: M-Audio Studiophile AV40 40W 2ch Speakers ($119.99)
Other: LG Blu-ray Reader for Notebooks ($74.99)
Other: Silverstone CP10 Slim-SATA to SATA Adapter Cable ($8.99)
Total: $1489.08
Click to expand...

Stock cooler will be fine for stock speeds. Just enable a fan profile in BIOS, and of course install it properly.

No need for Arctic Silver 5. Use the stock pre-applied stuff on the stock cooler.

Don't get "married" to any particular RAM brand/model. At a particular specification, one brand performs like another. Just go for the cheapest. This goes for SSDs as well, if you go that route.

Do you actually use WiFi? I'm wondering if the reason Linux isn't supported is because the chipset is really new. It is the latest supporting 802.11ac. Maybe see if you can find out which chipset it uses and find support info based on that, instead of a generic "I couldn't get Linux to use this WiFi" based on the board model.

The stock fan that comes with the SG05 should be fine to use. Silverstone includes one of their "golf blade" fans. SPCR reviewed it. It runs at 1100RPM at full 12v, so it should be really quiet for most people. That 1500RPM Xigmatek would be a lot noisier, albeit with more airflow.

Have you decided on which Cherry MX switch to get for your keyboard? All will be noisier than a normal cheap keyboard, but some (like the MX Blue and Green) will be even noisier. You can do an "o-ring mod" to make mechanical keyboards quieter (except for the MX Blue and Green).

For speakers, have you considered a receiver (or small amp) and bookshelf speakers? You can pick up used receivers for really cheap - I once got an old stereo receiver for around $20. People will upgrade to the latest/greatest surround sound model, or even stop using them and switch to the ever popular speaker bars. Alternately you can pick up desktop amps for pretty cheap. Then you can use any bookshelf speaker pair.
 
Thank you all for the input. I'll try to reply to each point as they were brought up:

1. I had the same fear about getting one monitor now and one later. I'll have to really think about this some more. Build price just seems to keep going up ;)

2. Is it me or does RAM seem to be pricier these days? Cheapest 2x4GB set I could find on newegg was $59 by Team. I'm not too familiar with this manufacturer TBH, but if they get a decent recommendation here, I wouldn't mind swapping them out to save a few dollars.

3. Cooling...I think I will take the advice and scale back and keep the stock fans. That saves a few more $$$. Like I said I won't be overclocking, so as long as the stock fans keep things healthy and not overheating that's fine with me.

4. Thought about an mATX build when I first started, but I really like the footprint of the SG05 case.

5. Keyboard is MX Red. My limited research seemed to indicate this would be good for gaming, no?

6. Had not considered that for the speakers. Do you have an example setup I may be able to look at? I'm looking at the M-audios because they seem to have decent reviews for the price and I figure they'd be an upgrade over the no name cheapy pair I currently have on my desk.

Thanks again for the feed back. Anything else to consider?
 
2) Historically RAM prices have fluctuated both up and down. This past year has been up significantly over the previous year.

5) Yes. MX Red is often preferred for gaming. I was using Reds until I switched to MX Brown. I had mentioned it would be noisier than cheap keyboards. The reason is due to the key bottoming out when you use it. You can put little rubber o-rings under each key to reduce the noise.

6) Examples... On my own desk is a pair of Polk Audio R15 bookshelf speakers, powered by a surplus Onkyo receiver. The receiver can even take SPDIF inputs, which would make for perfect sound quality. It also has a subwoofer pre-amp output, for future bass upgrades. I purchased the speakers on some sale. Don't remember exactly how much, but it wasn't much. Maybe $60 for the pair brand new? My wife uses some BIC America DV52 speakers (same model number, but looks totally different than what is currently available - go figure) from 20 years ago, hooked up to a surplus Sony receiver. She even has a 12" powered sub hooked up. Setup sounds great for music. You can pick up speakers used, or wait for a deal. For instance these JBL Loft 40 speakers were $57 for a pair. Alternately you can buy some cheap Dayton speakers for $40/pair which aren't too bad. I think last week Best Buy had Polk T15 bookshelf speakers for $50/pair. Just keep an eye out for deals.

For powering the speakers, I see old receivers for $50 or less on Craigslist. I have an old Yamaha that I picked up for $20. Probably 30 years old, but sounds just as good as brand new ones. It was cheap because it was only stereo. No surround sound, sub output or anything else fancy like that. You can buy new stereo receivers for $100 or go with a basic desktop amp for $28.
 
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Zap said:
2) Historically RAM prices have fluctuated both up and down. This past year has been up significantly over the previous year.

5) Yes. MX Red is often preferred for gaming. I was using Reds until I switched to MX Brown. I had mentioned it would be noisier than cheap keyboards. The reason is due to the key bottoming out when you use it. You can put little rubber o-rings under each key to reduce the noise.

6) Examples... On my own desk is a pair of Polk Audio R15 bookshelf speakers, powered by a surplus Onkyo receiver. The receiver can even take SPDIF inputs, which would make for perfect sound quality. It also has a subwoofer pre-amp output, for future bass upgrades. I purchased the speakers on some sale. Don't remember exactly how much, but it wasn't much. Maybe $60 for the pair brand new? My wife uses some BIC America DV52 speakers (same model number, but looks totally different than what is currently available - go figure) from 20 years ago, hooked up to a surplus Sony receiver. She even has a 12" powered sub hooked up. Setup sounds great for music. You can pick up speakers used, or wait for a deal. For instance these JBL Loft 40 speakers were $57 for a pair. Alternately you can buy some cheap Dayton speakers for $40/pair which aren't too bad. I think last week Best Buy had Polk T15 bookshelf speakers for $50/pair. Just keep an eye out for deals.

For powering the speakers, I see old receivers for $50 or less on Craigslist. I have an old Yamaha that I picked up for $20. Probably 30 years old, but sounds just as good as brand new ones. It was cheap because it was only stereo. No surround sound, sub output or anything else fancy like that. You can buy new stereo receivers for $100 or go with a basic desktop amp for $28.
Click to expand...

Cool, thanks for the help. I'm going to have to do a little more research for the audio options then, in all honesty I've only ever used native computer speakers before.
 
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For speakers, have you considered a receiver (or small amp) and bookshelf speakers? You can pick up used receivers for really cheap - I once got an old stereo receiver for around $20. People will upgrade to the latest/greatest surround sound model, or even stop using them and switch to the ever popular speaker bars. Alternately you can pick up desktop amps for pretty cheap. Then you can use any bookshelf speaker pair.
Click to expand...

Well after a little more research I think I will pick up a pair of Micca MB42xs and power them with a Lepai 2020a+

From some of the user reviews I have read, this makes for an OK desktop setup and saves me around $40 and some space on my desk.
 
hyper.nova said:
Cheapest 2x4GB set I could find on newegg was $59 by Team. I'm not too familiar with this manufacturer TBH, but if they get a decent recommendation here, I wouldn't mind swapping them out to save a few dollars.
Click to expand...
Generally not a brand I would recommend. Price is good but the brand is a bit of an unknown. Up to you if you want to take the risk. Though the cheapest RAM that I would personally get (and did actually) would be this Crucial RAM:
$70 - Crucial Ballistix BLS8G3D1609ES2LX0 8GB DDR3 1600 RAM

hyper.nova said:
Thanks again for the feed back. Anything else to consider?
Click to expand...
With the money saved on the RAM and not upgrading the stock fans, I would recommend getting this case + PSU setup instead:
$44 - SilverStone Sugo Series SG05BB-LITE mITX Case
$101 - SilverStone ST45SF-G 450W SFX Modular PSU
----
Total: $145 shipped

It does cost $30 more but you're still getting the same case with a significantly better quality power supply. IMO, that higher quality is well worth the extra $30.

As for the HSF, I actually would recommend getting a 3rd party cooler since the stock HSF isn't that good IMO at keeping a heavy system cool. However, the HSF you chose is a bit overpriced and overkill IMO. I recommend this cheaper Zalman HSF instead:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835118127
 
Forgot to mention this earlier - you won't be able to use both the WiFi card and card as the Z87E-ITX has a single PCI-e slot...
 
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