Advice Needed, Custom mITX WC Case build

[techboydino]

So it's been a few years since I built my mATX SFF system, and time for an upgrade. I was going to do a SG05 on water but do not like the configuration and would end up cutting it to pieces anyways. I have some ideas on what I need to use but been out for a while and just started trolling the forums to find out the latest and greatest. Here's my idea, ideas, rants, criticism is welcome. Thanks.

1. Machine is built for occasional gaming, and daily use internet, social media, etc..
2. Goal is as small and quiet as possible, ninja like if you will
3. No overclocking needed. I don't care all that much as long as I can play the games I want
4. Money is an object, but the fabrication stuff won't cost me anything really, mostly parts

Instead of cutting up a case I am making one. Using 1/16" thick aluminum angle for the chassis, then will have some sides/front/back cut as needed. probably get some waterjet done once i have the design, i do NOT have access to this and will have to pay for it.

Case chassis will be 8" x 8" x 10"

What's going inside:
-mobo: probably Asus or ASRock Z77 variant
-CPU: Intel i5-3550/3570 or if money allows a Xeon E3-1265L V2 (45W) <--doubtful though
-GPU: Nvidia GTX660
-Ram: 16GB
-HDD: 2 SSD's, 1 Sata (if possible)
-ODD: Slim BR (if possible)
-PSU: Silverstone SFX450 Gold (modular, tiny)

Cooling:
-Swiftech Apogee II (block/pump combo)
-Black Ice SR-1 140mm Rad
-Akasa Apache 140mm fan (push only)
-Technofront Nano Res
-GPU: factory air cool fan

So, with that said I know it's a lot to fit but I think it can be done. Been tossing some ideas around on sketchup...just not sure if the WC setup will fit the bill. Right now in my mATX I am running the closed loop corsair and have no issues on a hotter i5-750, so I was hoping the 140mm would be enough for the newer i5, maybe the NB, and even maybe the GPU? I've seen a thread where someone modded a corsair and is doing cpu/gpu/nb just from that little setup with decent temps...

I pieced this together based on reviews, articles, forums and martins liquid lab results. Happy to hear your thoughts on what will and won't work. Below is my very rough sketch of possible configuration..please go easy, it's been a while.thanks.

not sure why these pics won't embed on to the page

 

[lvyelion]

looks interesting. few questions:
1. why the huge space between CPU and radiator? it can be closer to CPU

2. no exaust for PSU, the position is not right. you might have a proble with all the power cables since there is a ODD between the PSU and the motherboard. And the size of PSU seems too small

 

[techboydino]

looks interesting. few questions:
1. why the huge space between CPU and radiator? it can be closer to CPU

2. no exaust for PSU, the position is not right. you might have a proble with all the power cables since there is a ODD between the PSU and the motherboard. And the size of PSU seems too small

thanks for the response

1. why the huge space between CPU and radiator? it can be closer to CPU

well, that model is a bit off. The fan will actually drop about another 1.25" below that. Not sure total height of apogee ii. I guess if could drop as low as possible since it won't matter if the rad is not directly flush with the top cover

2. no exaust for PSU, the position is not right. you might have a proble with all the power cables since there is a ODD between the PSU and the motherboard. And the size of PSU seems too small.

the pic is to spec size of the Silverstone. i am making a low profile angled psu cable, the vent would be out the top and fresh air intake is from the front. i wanted to keep all pressure inside the case going out through rad ran. this should pull in from front then out the top. space on top is for power cord clearance. do you see a better placement?

 

[xyexz]

Love the custom case idea, I will point to a build I just completed here:

Was able to fit a lot on a single radiator, granted it's a gigantic radiator, but it's only a 120mm.

I would recommend going for more of a postive air pressure type of idea, it works very well for SFF, essentially push more air into the case than it can hold so it's forced out the ventilation areas, keeps the heat moving out and is proven to be very effective by Lian Li and Silverstone.

I don't know about the GTX 660 but I know the GTX 670 was crucial for a build like this due to the very short PCB without the stock cooler on, you'll want to make sure you get a card that has the newer short PCB style.

Plus, just an idea, but I think you could further minimize the space required by using a device like http://silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=326&area=en. It has two different colored faceplates, or you could just cut a slit in the aluminum of your case and skip using their faceplate altogether.

In my build I used a 5.25 bay device to hold 4 2.5 drives, really a huge win for saving space in a SFF build with high performance components without much compromise.

I would also think about cable management, as well as hoses, need to think about ways to make cable tie points in the case etc for proper airflow.

Looks cool so far!

 

[techboydino]

Love the custom case idea, I will point to a build I just completed here

Was able to fit a lot on a single radiator, granted it's a gigantic radiator, but it's only a 120mm.

That is really promising

I would recommend going for more of a postive air pressure type of idea, it works very well for SFF, essentially push more air into the case than it can hold so it's forced out the ventilation areas, keeps the heat moving out and is proven to be very effective by Lian Li and Silverstone.

Good info, I was using a different approach and figured the massive 140 would pull whatever air it needed. I'll see if I can incorporate that theory. I may try and put the rad/fan up front and take up the whole front panel and move the rest around since I don't need much clearance over the cpu

I don't know about the GTX 660 but I know the GTX 670 was crucial for a build like this due to the very short PCB without the stock cooler on, you'll want to make sure you get a card that has the newer short PCB style.

Yes, reference design would be around 10" or so max

Plus, just an idea, but I think you could further minimize the space required by using a device like http://silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=326&area=en. It has two different colored faceplates, or you could just cut a slit in the aluminum of your case and skip using their faceplate altogether.

In my build I used a 5.25 bay device to hold 4 2.5 drives, really a huge win for saving space in a SFF build with high performance components without much compromise.

I found a Startech similar to that with 2 SDD backplane and an optical, but cant figure out where to have a 6" caddy sit.

I would also think about cable management, as well as hoses, need to think about ways to make cable tie points in the case etc for proper airflow.

yeah, i was actually going to use the chassis supports and extend all cables for management, plus I know some will say otherwise but was going to use a combo of hard and soft lines for cooling. Again this is design phase and I am open to all suggestions. Thanks for all the input, very much appreciated. Your project looks great.

Looks cool so far

 

[thiesggb]

Just to give you some more ideas --> http://www.mijnalbum.nl/Album=KHLM7YG6

(foto's in link aren't uptodate i see now, mainboard has been recently switched for a P8Z77-I DELUXE with also the chipset watercooled, will ad those foto's to link when i have time)

 

[Quartz-1]

Have you considered raising the motherboard a little and putting the DVRRW underneath? You might also consider turning the PSU 90 degrees so the power switch is on the outside. You could combine the two and then haver the PSU at the back, with the radiator forward.

Mind you, I'd just get a Shuttle SFF and add an Asetek cooler.

 

[techboydino]

Have you considered raising the motherboard a little and putting the DVRRW underneath? You might also consider turning the PSU 90 degrees so the power switch is on the outside. You could combine the two and then haver the PSU at the back, with the radiator forward.

Mind you, I'd just get a Shuttle SFF and add an Asetek cooler.

Excellent idea, I can add all the drives to a lower shelf, that should free up some room.

I was looking at the Shuttle and highly considered it. Still am for complete simplicity. A few things I don't like and some so so reviews but still pretty much what I am after. Not as fun as building yourself but fun after when the build is done in a day.

 

[techboydino]

made some changes in this possible design

• dropped down to a 120mm x 60mm Coolgate Radiator
• will need a new fan, either 25,32 or 38mm should fit
• was able to add the ODD/SATA dock
• have room for single 2.5" HD in as storage

I know a 120mm will cool off a cpu without issue, since this is 60mm and better matched, do you think the GPU can be handled as well through a single 120mm rad? that would totally cut down noise and probably hit my goal. This would use the earlier suggestion about forcing positive pressure into the case, vents and the PSU fan would pull it out.

Thanks for all the ideas so far. I think I'll be able to manage the 8" x 8" x 10" goal on the chassis and possibly drop down to 7 or 7.5" on the height if this version works out.

 

[xyexz]

made some changes in this possible design

• dropped down to a 120mm x 60mm Coolgate Radiator
• will need a new fan, either 25,32 or 38mm should fit
• was able to add the ODD/SATA dock
• have room for single 2.5" HD in as storage

I know a 120mm will cool off a cpu without issue, since this is 60mm and better matched, do you think the GPU can be handled as well through a single 120mm rad? that would totally cut down noise and probably hit my goal. This would use the earlier suggestion about forcing positive pressure into the case, vents and the PSU fan would pull it out.

Thanks for all the ideas so far. I think I'll be able to manage the 8" x 8" x 10" goal on the chassis and possibly drop down to 7 or 7.5" on the height if this version works out.

Looks like the build is coming along, I have more comments though (definitely not bashing though or anything, I think what you are doing is awesome).

First off, I would go with a 140mm rad if you're planning on using 60mm thick rad and running cpu and gpu.

Seconding I had a question regarding the unknown block that's in front of the front fan?

Third, seems like there is a lot of space under the graphics card, maybe get creative with trying to put the PSU and your ODD/HDD box under the mobo.

Fourth, what pump are you using, you going Apogee Drive 2?

 

[CrimandEvil]

Yeah, if your going to put the ODD and HDDs under the mobo then why not try putting the PSU under there too? As it is that's a lot of wasted space down there. That or maybe move the ODD/HDDs to the front off center but in line with the PSU? Move the Rad down a little and mount it so that the barbs are on the side.

I would also suggest going with the Apogee Drive 2; I have the first one and thought it was great. It'll save some space for you too.

 

[ekuest]

i dont think theres room to put the drives AND the psu under the mobo. i definitely like the new placement of the psu over the mobo instead of in front as i built a rig with the psu in the front and had major cooling issues. you really want that thing to exhaust straight out the case, not to mention running the power cable through the case is messy and annoying.

are you trying to make this case smaller or do you want it where it is and just optimize placement in it? if i were you i would move the optical drive to the front so you can load discs from the front instead of the side but leave the hdds under the mobo. you can rotate the radiator 90 degrees and lower it right down on top of the ODD. then you can move the mobo down a little bit (using double mobo standoffs is a good way to get a bit more height underneath without having ti make a whole bracket/support structure) and then lower the psu and pump so the tops are even with the top of the video card. you should still have plenty of room for your cpu waterblock. just a suggestion.

sorry for jumping in with a bunch of opinions, ive spent literally dozens of hours moving parts around in solidworks designing different cases. its fun right!? definitely following your build.

 

[Quartz-1]

Actually, I was thinking of a slimline DVDRW - laptop style - but loading from the front. That way you can put 2x 2.5" HDDs behind it.

 

[techboydino]

Thanks for all the ideas guys, keep em coming.

Looks like the build is coming along, I have more comments though (definitely not bashing though or anything, I think what you are doing is awesome).

First off, I would go with a 140mm rad if you're planning on using 60mm thick rad and running cpu and gpu.

If I can fit it, that's the plan. Right now it's not looking good.

Seconding I had a question regarding the unknown block that's in front of the front fan?

sorry, that's a crude radiator. I will fix but did a quick mockup of overall dimensions

Third, seems like there is a lot of space under the graphics card, maybe get creative with trying to put the PSU and your ODD/HDD box under the mobo.

Yeah, I was going to use that area for cable maneagement and a full size 3.5" storage drive

Fourth, what pump are you using, you going Apogee Drive 2?

Apogee Drive 2 is the plan.

Yeah, if your going to put the ODD and HDDs under the mobo then why not try putting the PSU under there too? As it is that's a lot of wasted space down there. That or maybe move the ODD/HDDs to the front off center but in line with the PSU? Move the Rad down a little and mount it so that the barbs are on the side.

The rad hits the video card if I go sideways..so I have to sacrofice length of the case for fitment.

I would also suggest going with the Apogee Drive 2; I have the first one and thought it was great. It'll save some space for you too.

+1

i dont think theres room to put the drives AND the psu under the mobo. i definitely like the new placement of the psu over the mobo instead of in front as i built a rig with the psu in the front and had major cooling issues. you really want that thing to exhaust straight out the case, not to mention running the power cable through the case is messy and annoying.

exactly, not enough real estate below if I want to run the backplane setup, which I do

are you trying to make this case smaller or do you want it where it is and just optimize placement in it? if i were you i would move the optical drive to the front so you can load discs from the front instead of the side but leave the hdds under the mobo. you can rotate the radiator 90 degrees and lower it right down on top of the ODD. then you can move the mobo down a little bit (using double mobo standoffs is a good way to get a bit more height underneath without having ti make a whole bracket/support structure) and then lower the psu and pump so the tops are even with the top of the video card. you should still have plenty of room for your cpu waterblock. just a suggestion.

I'll look into it, the slim ODD is very long, and it limits what I can do if it's facing forward, but might be an option.

sorry for jumping in with a bunch of opinions, ive spent literally dozens of hours moving parts around in solidworks designing different cases. its fun right!? definitely following your build.

It's a blast actually. I'm using sketchup since I lack the proper skills but am getting by. I appreciate all comments and suggestions and welcome any feedback.

 

[techboydino]

Frameless for now. Totally minimal. PSU would move down and back a bit to make room for cables on ODD dock. Wire management would be above video card. most open space over mobo for straight forced air pushing out PSU. This would put the chassis at 7" Wide, 8" Tall, and 10.5-11.5" deep. This allows for ODD/SSD dock in front and room for hoses in the middle (1/4 or 3/8 max). I think this is the smallest yet usable design I have still being able to keep the odd/ssd backplane. I just got the materials for the chassis and will begin this weekend. We'll see how 1/16" holds up once tig'ed together. I have plenty of angle so I may do a few designs. Ordered PSU and ODD dock so I can use it for mock up. I have spares of everything else.

Overall goal is as quiet and small as possible, not really needing to overclock. Was toying with a pci-x ribbon riser and moving the video card under the mobo or further out but really saw no benefit.

 

[ekuest]

nice. make sure you leave room for hoses too. cables can take up more room, but because theyre wider and less flexible, hoses are the killer when trying to get everything to fit in an ITX box. you will probably need some right angle fittings instead of taking up tons of room trying to make those bends. i would also suggest sliding the ODD to the other side, over the GPU. that way you have the space up front above the GPU to curl up your unwanted cables, but you also have some open wiring space on the other side. youre gonna want some more space on the other side for your 24-pin and your hoses.

 

[leeleatherwood]

What 3D Program is this?

Are you modeling the components yourself or are you downloading them from somewhere?
If you are downloading them, where from?
If you are modeling them yourself, good job, would you mind sharing them for others to use?

Also, I really like the design you have going, I feel the PSU could move down more but its not the limiting factor in size anyways so its a moot point.

 

[techboydino]

Easy to do yourself.

What 3D Program is this?
This is Google Sketchup. It's free and easy.


Are you modeling the components yourself or are you downloading them from somewhere?
The models are from various places, I wish I had the time/talent to make them myself

If you are downloading them, where from?
Get them here, all credit to the respected artists

If you are modeling them yourself, good job, would you mind sharing them for others to use?
I've made some good ones in the past, but not since last build. I can try to dig them out but there are better ones in the galleries.

Also, I really like the design you have going, I feel the PSU could move down more but its not the limiting factor in size anyways so its a moot point.
Thanks, hopefully turns out like my vision.

 

[leeleatherwood]

Easy to do yourself.

Thanks!

 

[techboydino]

Sweet, the Zotac 660TI is only 7.5" long, that makes for much more room up front. I think I found a winner.

 

[ekuest]

why arent you sticking with the 670? its even shorter and more powerful. cost?

 

[techboydino]

why arent you sticking with the 670? its even shorter and more powerful. cost?

Cost is a factor, but I did not know that a 670 was shorter than 7.5"..do you have a link?

 

[ekuest]

Cost is a factor, but I did not know that a 670 was shorter than 7.5"..do you have a link?

sorry it took so long, been doing some stress testing! here is anands review. its right there in the second paragraph. the pcb is very short, but the cooler on the card sticks out pretty far so the card is listed as longer. as long as you're water cooling, then the card can be a very short 6.75". there are water blocks available already as well as the kuhler/hydro bracket from dwood over at overclock.net. there are also some non-reference PCBs which are more like 9 or 9.5 inches i think, so you'd just have to avoid those.

The complete card is 9.5” long, however the actual PCB is far shorter at only 6.75” long, 3.25” shorter than the GTX 680’s PCB.

 

[signalpuke]

Cool project, I am really liking this. I am currently waiting for parts for my build, similar goals as yours. I am taking the easy way though, and using a shuttle lol.

The more energy efficient, the less power used, and the less heat that is generated. Less heat means less cooling needed, allowing for a smaller form factor. The 660 seems to be the coolest running of the new series, and it doesn't use much power either.

My recommendation is to look at some existing builds you like, try to mimic them, and then tweak them for your own parts list.

Example: I love my ASRock CoreHT-252B layout due to it's small size. The only dimensions of the case I would want to change, are for accommodating a graphics card.
If I could expand on that platform, and make case larger to my specs, I would keep the external power supply for simplicity (and cooling) and utilize an Xbox external power supply for the video card.
The video card would push the back of the case out another inch, and raise it about two inches. This would expand the case design from 195mm(W)x70mm(H)x186mm(L) to 195mm(W)x130mm(H)x210mm(L) (guesstimate) and allow me to house 4-6 2.5" drives.
I would omit the BR drive, and just use a USB optical drive when needed (I have used my optical drive once in the last year).

Apologies for rambling! Looking forward to this build of yours

 

[techboydino]

as long as you're water cooling, then the card can be a very short 6.75". there are water blocks available already as well as the kuhler/hydro bracket from dwood over at overclock.net. there are also some non-reference PCBs which are more like 9 or 9.5 inches i think, so you'd just have to avoid those.

thanks for the info, I will look into that...depends on thermals, power, and price on what card I choose. I don't yet know if water cooling will work with CPU and GPU on a such a small system, but I can always add it later if choose not to do so right away.

 

[techboydino]

I hate when there are new choices...probably going to pick up the ASRock this weekend and the CPU, which are on rediculous sale at MicroCenter. Just got this email today, EVGA is probably too late for me...

Z77 Stinger

 

[techboydino]

Cool project, I am really liking this. I am currently waiting for parts for my build, similar goals as yours. I am taking the easy way though, and using a shuttle lol.

I thought about the Shuttle as well. Sooo much easier and probably way more cost efficient. Still have it on the back burner, depending on how this skeleton goes together. Hopefully I can do my ground up custom build, most of the case parts are ordered, depends on time, money, frustration levels. Either way I think I'm down to 8" wide, 7" tall, and 10" deep which fits the bill, now to see how cool and quiet it will be..

 

[ekuest]

I hate when there are new choices...probably going to pick up the ASRock this weekend and the CPU, which are on rediculous sale at MicroCenter. Just got this email today, EVGA is probably too late for me...

Z77 Stinger

omg. the socket... isnt... pressed right up against the pci slot in the worst location possible. there might actually be room to work with this board. glad to see evga enter the ITX race. i will probably be waiting a generation or 2 until i upgrade so it wont be this board, but i will definitely be taking a look at the evga ITX boards in the future.

 

[techboydino]

anyone know of a good site online to get 3mm/4mm or 1/16" aluminum? Also needing a new place to waterjet cut panels. The place I used to deal with went sky high with prices. Hard to find places to get one off work without breaking the bank.

 

[ekuest]

anyone know of a good site online to get 3mm/4mm or 1/16" aluminum? Also needing a new place to waterjet cut panels. The place I used to deal with went sky high with prices. Hard to find places to get one off work without breaking the bank.

PM this guy over at OCN. he's made a business of cutting/sand blasting/painting things for modders after his adapters to mount all-in-one cpu coolers on video cards took off. he's going to be cutting my case panels which i just finalized last night as soon as he's back from vacation. just send him your drawings and he will print them up for you. he will sandblast for free i think, and he will rattle can spray paint for a small fee. if you want it to last i would suggest you paint it yourself. the price he quoted me was VERY reasonable, much less than i expected. he also said it would be less if i sent him drawing files all ready to print instead of him having to draw it up, though he will design and model parts for you if you want. his responses are short and sweet cuz he's a busy guy, but he's incredibly nice and has fast turn around and the best prices.

also, he has metal available, but he may not have the exact same thickness as what you used in your model, so you may have to compensate for like .05" different thickness or something in your drawings if he doesnt have exactly the same.

 

[xyexz]

His name on ocn is Dwood, he's pretty popular for making the custom water cooling brackets for GPUs, I bought one from him for my old GTX 570, very nice over pm and professional, also very fast - can't go wrong with that guy.

 

[techboydino]

PM this guy over at OCN. he's made a business of cutting/sand blasting/painting things for modders after his adapters to mount all-in-one cpu coolers on video cards took off. he's going to be cutting my case panels which i just finalized last night as soon as he's back from vacation. just send him your drawings and he will print them up for you. he will sandblast for free i think, and he will rattle can spray paint for a small fee. if you want it to last i would suggest you paint it yourself. the price he quoted me was VERY reasonable, much less than i expected. he also said it would be less if i sent him drawing files all ready to print instead of him having to draw it up, though he will design and model parts for you if you want. his responses are short and sweet cuz he's a busy guy, but he's incredibly nice and has fast turn around and the best prices.

also, he has metal available, but he may not have the exact same thickness as what you used in your model, so you may have to compensate for like .05" different thickness or something in your drawings if he doesnt have exactly the same.

His name on ocn is Dwood, he's pretty popular for making the custom water cooling brackets for GPUs, I bought one from him for my old GTX 570, very nice over pm and professional, also very fast - can't go wrong with that guy.

thanks guys, I'll be hitting him up. appreciate the quick responses.