ACLU: Cops Stealing Drivers' Phone Data

Man, this is not good under any circumstance short of misdemeanor/felony class police action as a function of a traffic stop.
 
One less reason to ever travel to Michigan. And they wonder why the population there is on the decline. I guess next they will make it illegal to move out of the state.
 
Definitely not legal, but under the pretense of exigency, they can get it from you without repercussion no? If they suspect you of breaking the law.

Not that I support it for this case, aren't they happy enough with a speeding ticket? this is just them being jack asses.
 
Azhar said:
What the hell is up with state GOP governors making sensationalist changes to laws? Wisconsin for the union thing, Maine for wanting to amend the child labor law, and now Michigan for 4th amendment violation. Are they that desperate for attention?
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Because Dem governors have never been known to do anything like that?:rolleyes:

PopeKevinI said:
My phone won't turn on without the battery in it, I've tried.
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that's when the cop looks up the battery model for your phone, goes to his trunk and pulls out the appropriate battery for you phone and inserts it into your now powered up phone.
 
If I get caught talking or texting while I'm driving fine, use my own phone records to hang me, but for anything else it's none of your dam business.
 
This should be as legal as shooting a Michigan State Police officer. Balls in your court Michigan.
 
When the officer asks you for your your cell phone, give him/her your prepaid cell phone. You do keep it in the car (glove department) for emergencies, don't you?
 
Policemen are allowed to violate the constitution in the U.S. pretty much at will and without repercussion.

They especially have a disdain for people who know their constitutional rights. A refusal to waive your constitutional rights might even result in an arrest and an accusation of a felony.
 
Fake Phone in car at all times

Derogatory references to police all through it and nothing else
 
Darth Millennial said:
Everything you've said they need from the phone could be verified with the records from the service provided with a valid judicially verified warrant. No reason to need the phone.
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Bingo.

If you fight a texting-while-driving ticket, they will have to do it the proper way. By getting a warrant and getting your information from your cellphone company.
 
All you do is have an old old phone in the car with you and hand it to them if they ask for i.
 
If I expect to get pulled over, I'm going to snap a nice photo of my ass and use that as the wallpaper.

Failing that, I hope this does happen to me so I can tell my pals I used the phrase "piss off" to the cops. Seeing as I don't carry incriminating things in a device I take everywhere, if they want to throw a pissyfit after that, let them soil themselves in frustration.
 
eon said:
keep your phone out of view, say you dont have one with you. Problem solved. If there's not a dead body in your backseat or your car doesnt smell like weed, they cant search you.
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Getting nailed for lying to a police officer is way worse than a ticket for using your phone while driving. Not worth the risk.

Just don't say anything, and don't give him the phone. You aren't lying, and chances are he has no legal right to touch your phone so you aren't disobeying a lawful order either.
 
PopeKevinI said:
Individual officers, yet. Departments, not so much. For the most part, cops are decent guys trying to do the right thing. 1 out of 10 of them might be power-tripping abusers, but even those guys mostly know better than to try to sell stolen trade secrets to a company's competitors. I'm not in any business where trade secrets exist and I know that there's a good chance of being turned in if you approached a large company with their competitors' trade secrets. It's rarely ever worth the risk for them to enter into a deal like that...even if you take ethics out of the equation, the potential profit doesn't justify the potential fines, jail time, and stock price dip if they are caught out.
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So, I heard you're not from Chicago....
 
WBurchnall said:
If they pull you over in your car for a violation like 'speeding', 'drunk driving', etc aren't they able to within reason search your car? I often find shows like Cops, they pull someone over, you can clearly see they are under the influence of something, search the car and ohh look 'cocaine in the glove compartment'.

Isn't searching areas/things like bags inside your car not that different from searching your phone in a manner of speaking? If you think of a bag/glove compartment as a storage-medium similar to a phone/usb thumb drive/etc? One's virtual storage and the other actual storage. If someone had a list of all the numbers they'd recently called written down on a peice of paper in the glove compartment, would you consider it wrong for them to read it while searching a car?

This one seems a bit ....odd. If they had cause for pulling you over and deem something arrest worthy, they have cause to search your vehicle and what's inside it including your phone. The people saying they'll sue for consitutional right violations blah blah blah.... good luck!

To an extent, this seems slightly useful data though. If an officer sees a teenager texting and pulls the teenager over for texting, it seems easily contestable in court. Teenager deleted the texts/phone call records during the time she was driving and says 'you can look at my phone' in court and subsequently the 'modified' phone shows no texts/phone calls. Granted, phone records could be subponea'd but that would take a lot of police resources/time/effort and possibly a 2nd court hearing.

Would it be preferable just to have this situation, teenager pulled over for texting...
Teenager: "no, i wasn't texting officer!!!"
Office: "Can I see your phone? Gee, a text from 1 minute ago, 2 minutes ago, 4 minutes ago, 6 minutes ago. Oh and 12 minutes ago you started a 5 minute long phone call and have no hands-free device in your car."
Officer downloads copy of phone log/texts for use in court.
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Short answer no, criminals are stupid and ALLOW officers to search their car. Locked trunks, locked glove compartments and anything NOT accessible from the driver seat is EXEMPT from immediate search, either consent or a warrant is the only way they can get in there.
 
PopeKevinI said:
Individual officers, yet. Departments, not so much. For the most part, cops are decent guys trying to do the right thing. 1 out of 10 of them might be power-tripping abusers, but even those guys mostly know better than to try to sell stolen trade secrets to a company's competitors. I'm not in any business where trade secrets exist and I know that there's a good chance of being turned in if you approached a large company with their competitors' trade secrets. It's rarely ever worth the risk for them to enter into a deal like that...even if you take ethics out of the equation, the potential profit doesn't justify the potential fines, jail time, and stock price dip if they are caught out.
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Yeah you had the right statistic though it was out of order, 1 out of 10 of them ARE power-tripping abusers
 
Makeroflostsouls said:
The hell if im handing over my phone just because they want it. They cant take my laptop out of my car and download it why the fuck am I going to give up my smart phone.
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they can now if your crossing international borders...

First words are do you have a warrant to search my phone if no then volunteer your call log to prove it was not in use while driving. Which is probably the main reason for the searches... after that comes are you arresting me? then if yes then i want a lawyer.
 
So what happens if someone is pulled over and tells the cop they don't have a phone? How does the cop determine if that person is lying or not? If he wants to search them and the vehicle to find out if they're telling the truth, does that not require a warrant? If he searches without a warrant and tries to throw the "probable cause" card and it turns out the person indeed doesn't have a phone, can't he get in serious trouble for a 4th Amendment violation?
 
topcat989 said:
that's when the cop looks up the battery model for your phone, goes to his trunk and pulls out the appropriate battery for you phone and inserts it into your now powered up phone.
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A trunk full of hundreds of batteries? I don't see that happening.
 
There is so much legalism brought up in this forum, I think Kyle needs to hire a in house lawyer. I'm sure everyone who visits here can cough up a buck. It sure would save a lot of hypothetical situations being tossed around.:)
 
well let me tell you what you need to do forum dwellers. Your car is an extension of your home and as such a warrant is needed to search it. First don't text and drive in states with laws against it(obviously). Second when pulled over for a traffic offense if you exit your car close the door behind you. A warrant is needed to search the car unless you give permission.

Third leave you phone in one of those car pockets or cubby holes inside your car. If asked for it say you don't have it on you and if they say they need to see it tell them nope you need a warrant to search for it. If you don't want it searched keep it in your car and not on your person. Once again close your door as they can look inside but a reach for something is a illegal search(within reach doesn't fly when the car door is close even with the windows down).

If you are being pulled over for a speeding violation keep up with the time. If the cop stops writing the ticket and pressing to search your vehicle you need to start saying "officer I don't consent to your search." After that you will get the old...what do you have to hide. Repeat the same refusal.

Then comes another reply I have personally heard from an officer that stopped me is "I might need to call the K-9 unit to sniff around the car." You need to reply with "am I being detained or am I free to go". You should already be pass the how fast you were going, where you going, who's car, whose with you questions by then. Any other questions about searching your car should be meet by I do not consent a search or Officer am I free to go from there on out.

You might get arrested, but I was stone cold calm and it gave the officer an uneasy feeling that this won't go well with this one. HE wrote ticket and my last words was Officer am I free to go and he said yes.....I immediately left. Don't stick around reading ticket you hop in and jet. Staying around makes it legal to search folks. Don't wait to be dismissed, you ask if you are free to go constantly.

ANd folks give direct to the point answers to questions, don't volunteer information(don't go on a constitutional rant). Yes some of this will piss a officer off but be calm and you will see it pisses them off because they have to work then. Another trick is they will ask the passenger for permission to search, if it's your car butt back in with a big no and tell them a non owner can't give consent with the owner present.

Lastly don't ever be fooled with the patriot act rant from a local police ro state trooper. It has zero impact for none federal officers. Patriot act is to make the FBI, CIA, DEA, C&B lives easier not local or state police. I tell my passengers all the time if we are stopped invoke you right remain silent and only identify yourself...provide a license. Other than that refer the officer to me the driver if they have questions.

Doing this may get you arrested by a cop wanting to beat their chest so it's up to you to decide. All you are need to supply is personal identity information other than that you can refuse to answer. My funniest encounter was being asked where you going? I answered. What you going there for? my reply was Officer, am i free to go. Officer am I free to go powerful set of words as it gets under there skin if repeated. Calm and cool folks calm and cool throughout the encounter.

Disclaimer

Your mileage may vary and if black like me you might get arrested, tased and or beaten.
 
Just keep a crappy old nokia dumbphone with you and hand that one over.
 
arentol said:
Getting nailed for lying to a police officer is way worse than a ticket for using your phone while driving. Not worth the risk.

Just don't say anything, and don't give him the phone. You aren't lying, and chances are he has no legal right to touch your phone so you aren't disobeying a lawful order either.
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This is very simple, if you get pulled over, be polite give drivers license, registration, insurnace when asked to. If the officer asks you for your phone to download data, politely decline, if he asks you why, tell him that your phone is not subject to search or seizure without probable cause beyond the initial stop, which was for some traffic violation. If he asks to search your vehicle, tell him no that you will not submit to a search of your vehicle or of your phone. He will politely ask you to get out of your car, either handcuff you and stuff you in the back of the cruiser. Most likely he will search the vehicle anyway and most likely download the content of your phone.

Now, if he finds a misdemeanor/felony class offense in your car, you have a problem. If he finds nothing, during the search and downloads the contents of your phone anyway, then everything is inadmissible in a court of law since you declined being searched without due process of the probable cause to begin with under the 4th amendment. This does get tricky because traffic violations are treated the same way as misdemeanors/felonies, but if he proceeds to arrest you for anything beyond that and you've done nothing wrong then get a lawyer and fight back.

This law will be challenged and hopefully struck down. By the way I'm not a lawyer, I just know a whole bunch of them.
 
Phoenix333 said:
So what happens if someone is pulled over and tells the cop they don't have a phone? How does the cop determine if that person is lying or not? If he wants to search them and the vehicle to find out if they're telling the truth, does that not require a warrant? If he searches without a warrant and tries to throw the "probable cause" card and it turns out the person indeed doesn't have a phone, can't he get in serious trouble for a 4th Amendment violation?
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It all depends. The law is not a linear function of causation of actions and reactions. It's a fluid, wispy, interpretive devil. In this case, it's your word against his and his word holds much more weight and merit. Unless you have proof of wrongdoing or can show a circumstance (dash cam/microphone or recorded conversation of the stop and reaction) then you will have an uphill battle.
 
OK

How about somebody write a virus you can host on your phone to where when they plug their extraction device in the virus executes and infects their device.
 
jojo69 said:
OK

How about somebody write a virus you can host on your phone to where when they plug their extraction device in the virus executes and infects their device.
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What would be even better is to download all the extraction device data onto the phone (or upload it to a public domain if it's too large). Then we can all see how well the extraction device protects everyone's private information.
 
-PK- said:
What would be even better is to download all the extraction device data onto the phone (or upload it to a public domain if it's too large). Then we can all see how well the extraction device protects everyone's private information.
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would be better to have your phone encrypt call logs and mms and not log your location by turning off that feature.... but i do agree knowing the code a device uses to copy the contents of your phone would be wonderfully useful :rolleyes: as it protects out information about as well as it does handing the officers a virtual clone of your phone...
 
Jesus idiots, reread the article. In its original form it was inaccurate, sensationalist bullshit that has since been corrected. You will not be suing the police for "constitutional violations" because the extractors are only used with consent or with a warrant. If you are dumb enough to consent to a search, the courts will not step in later to remedy your stupidity. It's always hilarious to watch non-lawyers post about "the law" though. You all sound like Charlie from Always Sunny in Philadelphia.
 
Methadras said:
No, I meant that the data capture device could be designed to power up a device without a battery in place.
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Unless it can match my phone's battery contacts and provide it with the right kind of power, it won't work. The Droid pulls its power from the battery. It can take 2-3 minutes before I can even turn it on if it's been sitting drained for more than a week.
 
PopeKevinI said:
Unless it can match my phone's battery contacts and provide it with the right kind of power, it won't work. The Droid pulls its power from the battery. It can take 2-3 minutes before I can even turn it on if it's been sitting drained for more than a week.
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You know the little port where you plug your charger in? Your phone draws power from there as well.
 
Azhar said:
You know the little port where you plug your charger in? Your phone draws power from there as well.
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It *will not* turn on with just that plugged in. I've tried it. What, did you think I was just making stuff up?

Some phones are designed in such a way that they can't operate directly from the charger. It would make sense: chargers don't always deliver reliable voltages. That's fine when you're charging a battery and a drop in voltage means the battery doesn't charge for a few seconds. It's not so easy when you're trying to run a smartphone's processor. At best you could have a phone that reboots for no apparent reason when something puts extra draw on your car's electrical. At worst you could be talking real damage to the phone.
 
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