A64 3000+ Venice Overclocking Help? (DFI Ultra-D)

ashmedai

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I have some odd number by Zalman or Enermax or something on mine, and Panaflos are always good.
 

Lukano

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I've been talking to cornelious0_0 on MSN and he's also recommending the Panaflo's. Leaning towards panaflo + xp90 right now.
 

Lukano

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Looks like this ram really is pretty poor. The response I got from my inside contact with Corsair;

This is an AN-DATA IC on a 6 layer PCB.

The way to decode the dates is thus:

The first two digits are the year produced (05 = 2005, 04 = 2004, etc)

The next two are the week (17 is week 17, which would be late april or early may) produced. The last three are the lot number of the day, which means that yours are fairly recently produced modules.

Unfortunately they're not BH5 or CH5 from Winbond, which is kinda surprising seeing as how inexpensive those are. I suppose on the day that those modules you have were made, those ICs were whatever was available or whatever was least expensive. Value Memory is a tough business and most of the time they use whatever ICs they can get in quantity for a low price. I'd be surprised to see the modules do over 220 at any CAS latency, which isn't really shocking considering it's value memory and not overclocking memory.
So that being said - NOW should I at least look at exchanging it for the following (with little to no extra cost to me, at most $10-15).

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=12104&vpn=OCZ4001024PDC-K&manufacture=OCZ Technology&promoid=1047
 

Herulach

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i really dont think youll notice much of a difference going to the mushkin, it will bench better but thats about it. If youcan get the faster OCZ for similar money then do it (Have to ask why you didnt do it in the first place). Youll find that being able to bring your mem speeds higher wont help anything other than synthetic benchmarks really, well, not enough to notice anyway.
 

Lukano

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At the time the OCZ was $45 more - but it's on sale and the ram I bought last week hasn't dropped (thankfully).

I also stumbled across; http://www4.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=8243&vpn=CMX512-3200C2 &manufacture=CORSAIR

But I guess I need a final expert opinion of sorts;

With my current set-up in my sig - issues getting over 265-280 HTT - will change from the Corsair value to the OCZ Premier and/or the Corsair super dee duper stuff listed above - really help my break that threshold at all? I know I've asked this before, but if I finalize this order now - that's it for the next few months. So the sooner I decide, the better :)

If you say no, I'm just going to stay with the Corsair Value.
 

Lukano

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Ah screw it - keeping the Corsair valueram, buying the new powersupply and a new hs/f.

If it still gives me headaches in a week, I'll return the ram then once I can sell my current stuff (anyone want 2xPC2700 512mb Shikatronics branded Samsung chipped generic?) :)
 

Herulach

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To be perfectly honest i think youre doing the right thing, by all means rma that ram, if youve got something to keep your rig up and running it might be worthwhile incase you pull 2 better sticks next time. As far as getting over you 280 HT threshold, the only thing i can suggest is more voltage, that board should eaasily be capable of it, you have to bear in mind though that with a 3000 youre already looking at a 30% increase in clock speed, which is nothing to be sniffed at, and puts you up there in 3700 territory.
You really need eclipse or ashmedai, or one of the others with experience with DFI boards to jump in again.
 

Lukano

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Well I''ve ordered the new power supply and that gadgety hs/f listed on page 2. If I still have ram issues then, I should still be within my 15 days from NCIX (and I do have a stick of pc2700, or even 2100 - that I can sneak into this machine to tide me over for the rma).

If not - then I'll just sell this stuff and upgrade in a few weeks/months time if I need to
 

(cf)Eclipse

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Lukano said:
Well I''ve ordered the new power supply and that gadgety hs/f listed on page 2. If I still have ram issues then, I should still be within my 15 days from NCIX (and I do have a stick of pc2700, or even 2100 - that I can sneak into this machine to tide me over for the rma).
did you ever decide what to do about the ram? you don't really need ram that can do much, aside from the greater flexibility it allows. 90% of any performance increase is gonna come from a faster cpu, not faster ram :D

however.. flexibility can be a good thing. a very good thing. i think ram purchases should be based off how fast the cpu can do. what's the max of your cpu (unless i'm missing somethign and you don't have it yet) when you drop the ram divider to 133mhz or something? :cool:
 

Lukano

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(cf)Eclipse said:
did you ever decide what to do about the ram? you don't really need ram that can do much, aside from the greater flexibility it allows. 90% of any performance increase is gonna come from a faster cpu, not faster ram :D

however.. flexibility can be a good thing. a very good thing. i think ram purchases should be based off how fast the cpu can do. what's the max of your cpu (unless i'm missing somethign and you don't have it yet) when you drop the ram divider to 133mhz or something? :cool:
Well I do and I don't. I'm waiting for the new power supply before I run through all of the tests again. I got semi-mismatched results last time (I swear to god I got 330 HTT, but only 2.5ghz and change for CPU) which I'm thinking may be part of the other underlying issues.

I'm sticking with this valueselect corsair for at least another week, see if the new cooler and new psu fix the matter (with some more burn in and testing time). Failing that, if I can't get it to sit 300fsb stable by day 13-14 after I purchased this ram, I'll RMA cross-ship it for something new. As to what.. I haven't a clue yet.
 
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ashmedai said:
With that 3000+ you're probably going to have to do LDT 1.5V Chipset 1.8V Startup 1.55V Vcore 1.55V HTT Multi 3x Mem Ratio 133 (improve later)...er I think that's most of it, should get you to 300HT. Just get a proper 24 pin power supply for now, that should help the whole system out and possibly solve all your problems.
well i was reading through this thread since im currently ocing the same processor on the same board. (currently @ 285HTT, btw) well i was wondering, isnt 1.5 LDT kinda high considering its at like 1.2 now? The chipset too as i remember default as 1.5 but im not sure.

Lukano, if you want to OC higher maybe you should try a burn-in? im currently in the process of burning in myself. So far ive been able to get the vcore down to voltages that i couldnt boot at all. (1.664 to 1.552, actual vcore being reported by cpu-z and smartguardian) I havent tested for stability yet but considering that i had to run 1.664 to boot before without crashing, and now it 1.552 and its not crashing, id say its an improvement. If you'd like, ill pm you the guide or post the link here so all can see...
 

Lukano

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Burn In you say?

As I said in the beginning, I'm really absolutely new to this. So I need hand-holding the whole way through :)

So yes, please post the link. It very well might be something needing burn-in, and if that's the case I'll try it 10 ways from sunday :)

On that note, just found sticks of 512mb PC3200 Corsair something or other (oem from a previous employer) that does CAS 2-3-3-6 for $80 per stick and I know I can keep swapping to find a good pair.

So considering it's like $30 all-told more than what I paid, I might just see if NCIX will refund some/all of my money and I'll buy those instead. That is, if I can't get my current ones working.
 

ashmedai

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LDT 1.4V is recommended for overclocking already if you check RGone's guide for the DFI nF4 UT. 1.5V helps a bit with higher HTTs.

Burn-in is more or less a myth.
 

Lukano

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ashmedai said:
LDT 1.4V is recommended for overclocking already if you check RGone's guide for the DFI nF4 UT. 1.5V helps a bit with higher HTTs.

Burn-in is more or less a myth.
Just got shipping confirmation on the new power supply. It'll be shipped overnight, arrive while I'm at work, and I'll throw it in the machine Wednesday morning. Will post results / updates as of then.
 
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ashmedai said:
LDT 1.4V is recommended for overclocking already if you check RGone's guide for the DFI nF4 UT. 1.5V helps a bit with higher HTTs.

Burn-in is more or less a myth.
thats what i thought at first but then i tried it and i was able to lower my voltage so far and thats always good but of course YMMV.

doesnt hurt to try now, can it?

http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=382751

use CPU burn-in to get it to 100% load.

okay i just saw that post on dfi-street so i will try with those settings after i do so more burn-in...
 

Lukano

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What's the absolute maximum I should/could bump my DRAM voltage up to? I've noticed (again, power supply still not upgraded) that it's easier to get a stable boot at 3.0 than 2.9. I'm scared to go higher though.

Can I go up to 3.1 or 3.2 without worry about frying my ram?
 

Lukano

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Well this is starting to look more and more like power (at least to my now only semi-untrained eyes).

If I get really injudicious and apply 1.55 + 110% to the Vcore and ramp the DRAM voltage up to 3.2 - I can actually ALMOST get into windows. I can see the desktop and everything before I get a BSOD (varying messages, usually memory related).

I'm going to get back to that and see if I can whittle the ram timings down to help. It's at least something to play with until the new power supply shows up.

In the meantime, my question still stands. How much voltage is absolutely too much voltage? CPU? DRAM?

edit - hmm, it almost looks like I as giving the CPU too much voltage. Dropped from 1.55 + 110% down to 1.475 + 126% and it's becoming a wee bit easier to narrow things down and boot into windows.
 

Lukano

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Well I got into windows, stable on desktop - error on small ftt in prime @ 290 HTT.

Here's a screeny, just because I need to use my webhosting for something this month.

Highest So Far
 

fenderltd

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damn even to get 2808 on my venice 3000 I didnt give it 3.2 (ram) lol I say new ram and new PSU maybe then you will be rockin.
 

Lukano

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fenderltd said:
damn even to get 2808 on my venice 3000 I didnt give it 3.2 (ram) lol I say new ram and new PSU maybe then you will be rockin.
I may have spoken too soon. I've just dropped mem down to 3.0 on the nose with +.3v enabled - and it's getting further into the Prim ftt test than the previous settings.

I have my vcore set to 1.50 + 113% and yet cpu-z is still showing 1.450. Wonder what it's really running at.
 
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go with what cpu-z reports. i personally wouldnt go higher than 3.0 on value ram (thats what u got right?)

if your on stock hsf, dont go higher than 1.7. and if u do, monitor your temps at all times.
 

fenderltd

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for cpu 1.75 I am water cooled and it will heat up on ya. stock voltage is 1.40 or 1.45 I forget lol!
 

Lukano

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fenderltd said:
for cpu 1.75 I am water cooled and it will heat up on ya. stock voltage is 1.40 or 1.45 I forget lol!
The board itself doesn't allow higher than 1.55 straight out of the gate, then +% overtop. I had it at 1.55 + 123% and saw it hit 1.8v and freaked out.

Now it's set at 1.50 +113% yet cpu-z and the nvidia monitor is still only showing 1.45. Forgot to check the bios (I think it said 1.51) and take a picture before I left for work.

Either way, power supply and new cooler (and arctic silver 5) showed up today - and they'll be going in tomorrow morning.
 

Lukano

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Neato Bandito - I just found a voltage table for the DFI boards when using the VID Special Control setting. Holy cow that allows for a lot of fine tuning (Although why they didn't just allow for finer increments, I don't know).

When using VID Special - does that mean the processor can then use any amount of voltage it needs from the preset to the +XXX% - or does it automatically draw preset +XXX%?

Anyways, here's the table and I've added it to my sig for any others. (ps - is there a size limit on sigs? I recall there being one in the past, but I can't see it in the rules and up until last week I hadn't visited [H] forums very often since I re-registered in 2003).

(edit - cornelius informs me it's 10 lines max in a sig)
 
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ok for some reason, that doesnt really work. theoretically, your SUPPOSE to have very fine tuning capability but it real life (at least for me) it is not so.

for example, theoretically, your suppose to have a few voltage settings/combinations that will allow the actually voltage to fall in between 1.504 and 1.520, right? well in reality, this doesnt not happen for me. with all the combinations there, CPU-Z keeps reporting my voltage as either 1.504 or 1.520. either cpu-z is wrong or the motherboard doesn some rounding.

reason is, i cant stay in windows for long time at 1.504 but i can at 1.520 so i want to lower it down to do some burn-in at that voltage...
 

Lukano

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peterhoang2002 said:
ok for some reason, that doesnt really work. theoretically, your SUPPOSE to have very fine tuning capability but it real life (at least for me) it is not so.

for example, theoretically, your suppose to have a few voltage settings/combinations that will allow the actually voltage to fall in between 1.504 and 1.520, right? well in reality, this doesnt not happen for me. with all the combinations there, CPU-Z keeps reporting my voltage as either 1.504 or 1.520. either cpu-z is wrong or the motherboard doesn some rounding.

reason is, i cant stay in windows for long time at 1.504 but i can at 1.520 so i want to lower it down to do some burn-in at that voltage...
I've had the same issue. Preset VID & Startup both at 1.50 even - tack on VID Special control at 113% and CPU-Z as well as any other monitor tool will show me at 1.45. I think it's a reporting issue with the bios - but I may be wrong.
 

Herulach

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Have you got a multi meter? Sounds to me like your 12V rail is probably drooping a lot, since the way power supplies work is all relative, even a small (11.5V) change in 12V rail can result in something like that happening to your cpu voltage.

Whens the new psu arriving? I personnally think youll see your voltage problems dissapear when you get that in.
 

Lukano

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Herulach said:
Have you got a multi meter? Sounds to me like your 12V rail is probably drooping a lot, since the way power supplies work is all relative, even a small (11.5V) change in 12V rail can result in something like that happening to your cpu voltage.

Whens the new psu arriving? I personnally think youll see your voltage problems dissapear when you get that in.
New power supply arrived yesterday, and will be installed within the next 20 mins (as soon as I get enough coffee in me). I'll be back with updates shortly.

edit - grr, I'm not the biggest fan of DFI's zif sockets right now. Removed the stock AMD hs/f and had it take the bloody chip with it. Good thing I didn't get too rough with it.
 

ashmedai

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Zif sockets?

That happens sometimes, with the sticking. It's frequently caused by using too much thermal compound because it increases the thickness + surface area of goop, thus making it cling more than it should. Might have just been random but make sure you follow instructions for correct application this time. Among other things it should have a moderate impact on your temperatures (depending on how bad vs how good an application the change is between the two).

3.2V is usually quite a lot to be running through memory...CH-5 is an exception to the usual limits just because it acts differently from most. Usually 2.9ish is about the most you need for a typical overclock.
 

Lukano

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zif socket's an old terminology from my long begon tech days - and one that I'm not entirely sure is a real word and not totally made up by co-workers.

It was the stock hs/f and stock AMD thermal compound that caused that bond - which I guess theoretically could be considered a good thing.

So I've put in both the new cooler and the new power supply - and now my temps are down around 27C stock idle according the bios, 34C in windows according to Nvidia monitor. They were 38C stock idle - so that's one hell of a difference. I also re-routed my airflow in the case and fixed a few cable blockages.

I'm just going to finish up reworking the case, then I'll start with the overclocking again and be back with results in a bit.
 

ashmedai

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Also happens more often if it's cool when you do it as opposed to warm from having been on recently.

Good show on the temps, hopefully it'll reflect in your results. ^_^
 

cornelious0_0

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Nice stuff bro, my Ultra-D and 3000+ should be here in a half hour or so if Canadapost is ontime through my area...I'll be back to let you guys know what stepping i get on my chip, and then I'll be "away" for a bit while I get 'er up and running.

So excited!!! :D
 

Lukano

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Grrr... preliminary results not so hot. I've been playing with everything from 280 HTT through 310 HTT. Had it in windows but relatively unstable (and for the life of me I can't recall the settings now) at 300 for a while.

I have tried ram voltages anywhere from 2.40 up to 3.4 (short time only) and every randomized vcore variety I can think of.

RAM timings have been everwhere from CAS 3 with as low as they'll go - even as high as me trying to force CAS 2.

I'm absolutely frigging stumped, and about ready to give up for the morning. I'll keep you updated over the next day or two as I try other options - but with the current ram I don't think I'll see higher than 280 HTT stable.
 

Herulach

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Lukano said:
Grrr... preliminary results not so hot. I've been playing with everything from 280 HTT through 310 HTT. Had it in windows but relatively unstable (and for the life of me I can't recall the settings now) at 300 for a while.

I have tried ram voltages anywhere from 2.40 up to 3.4 (short time only) and every randomized vcore variety I can think of.

RAM timings have been everwhere from CAS 3 with as low as they'll go - even as high as me trying to force CAS 2.

I'm absolutely frigging stumped, and about ready to give up for the morning. I'll keep you updated over the next day or two as I try other options - but with the current ram I don't think I'll see higher than 280 HTT stable.
You arent mad, it is a ZIF socket, stands for Zero Insertion Force.

280HT is nothing to sniff at. You do have your HTT multi down at like 3 dont you? Try swapping it around, i know some boards have bugs at certain HTT multis. But 280 HT at 9x corresponds to similar to what people are using to get to 2.7ish on 3200s. How warm is your chipset getting? That could be the route of your stability issues. Are you using teh locked sata ports (if any) Have you got the PCI lock turned on (don't know if needed on DFI Boards.
 

ashmedai

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Herulach said:
Zero Insertion Force.
Ooooh yeah. Marketing lingo sticks in my head as little as I can manage. I was trying to figure out WTF processor went in a Socket ZIF.

Well you're in the neighborhood, now just for the stability tweaking. Run over RGone's guide again if you haven't, also LDT 1.5V helped me a bit with the higher HT clocks. Chipset...dunno, mine's usually around 40C when I look. Don't think what memory you have matters that much as long as it's half decent and you set the ratio appropriately.
 
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