A64 3000+ Venice Overclocking Help? (DFI Ultra-D)

Discussion in 'Overclocking & Cooling' started by Lukano, May 12, 2005.

  1. Lukano

    Lukano Limp Gawd

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    I'm pretty much a begginer when it comes to overclocking my cpu, and although I've made the attempt before with previous machines - I usually get frustrated and give up leaving it at stock.

    So I've now got my 3000+ Venice purchase specifically for it's overclockability, and the DFI LanParty Ultra-D motherboard - for the same reasons.

    I admit I cheaped out on the ram, going with Corsair ValueRam timed 2.5 3-3-8 on the recommendation of a Corsair employee from another forum - stating even if the SPD is set to 3-3-8, they're likely winbond chips under the re-silking that Corsair does that are easily capable of 3-3-7 or better.

    Now being as new to overclocking as I am, I am starting to think the DFI motherboard is a little over my head. Being the holy grail of overclocking boards, but lacking reasonable documentation on all the bazillion settings in the Genie Bios for CPU and DRAM settings - it's a little overwhelming.

    For the time being, I'm sticking with the stock cooling (and the questionable ram) and I will see what I can push it to.

    Attempt # 1 - Using the Nvidia nTune tool (as I said, I'm new to this so have no idea how useful this thing really is). Oh, I suppose it's relevant to mention I'm running a 6600GT PCI Express card.

    Stock 3dmark2005 (again, poor benchmark but all I had handy) was about 3400-3500 points. Whether this is standard or abysmally poor - you'll have to tell me.

    Ran nTune for about an hour, let it do it's thing and I managed to push my score up to about 3800. Now nTune for some reason still seems to show all the values (cpu, ram, fsb, gpu, gmem, etc) all at their stock values. So what did it change?

    I left the values as is, and instead went and pushed my FSB up. Managed to get it up to 215 (this seems too low for the theoretical threshold on these chips, no?) and my 3dmark score up to just a hair under 4000 (3998).

    Yet if I push my FSB any higher than 215, I get either a lack of booting into windows, or alternately an error about a missing something or other .sys file. Drop back to stock, can boot in fine. Leave it at 215, all works fine.

    So I followed the advice of the stickied thread in here, and pushed the DRAM voltage up to about 2.90 from 2.60 stock. No luck any higher than 215FSB still. Added a CPU voltage jump (that is if "VID" is for CPU voltage, and if not can anyone tell me what I bumped my voltage up on?) from 1.40 to 1.50... still no luck.

    I tried changing the TRAS on the ram to 7 from 8 - and the machine refuses to post. Thankfully DFI allows you to boot at stock when you hold insert, otherwise I'd be in there clearing the cmos every other boot. Also safe to mention that I may have changed something other than the TRAS by accident, as the DFI DRAM settings are poorly labelled and I again haven't a clue as to what values I'm changing without some hand-holding.

    Now I've been reading again - and keep seeing mention of the CPU:DRAM ratio. 5:4 is always mentioned in relation to the FSB getting up to or over 250 - yet would it be a safe assumption that it may help in my case with this "questionable" ram? Or is it my ram limiting me, or something altogether different?

    Temperatures have not hit over 33C at all - but I'm still currently stuck at 215FSB with the ram set at the SPD defined values.

    So what am I doing wrong?

    edit - just thought of a few things I neglected to mention. Running the latest "beta" bios for the DFI motherboard that I found... somewhere seemingly-semi-reputable. I just can't recall where. So I may take this ram and try it in another machine to double check that it really is 3-3-8 and not being misreported or not-quite-supported by the DFI motherboard.
     
  2. holycpu

    holycpu Limp Gawd

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  3. ashmedai

    ashmedai [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Memory speed doesn't mean much at all on A64 so you should be fine.

    nTune basically sucks.

    Try 3dMark01 instead, 05 is mostly GPU-centric. 01 basically any vid card at this point handles more or less equally well so the CPU matters most.

    DFI-Street.com (officaial DFI support forum) has tons of info including a couple first start config guides. Also check the various stickies here, especially including Eclipse's recent guide linked by Holy.

    Make sure you go over RGone's setup guide on DFI street, but a few quick settings...


    HTT clock 300
    LDT voltage 1.5
    CPU voltage 1.55
    CPU startup voltage 1.55
    HTT multi 3x
    CPU multi 9x

    Under memory submenu (think it's the first thing once you're in the Genie menu)

    DRAM drive strength 6
    Can probably leave most things on auto for now, tweak later after its running.
    Memory ratio 133 for now, once you get everything working you're going to want it at like 140 or 150. Doubt you'll get higher than that with the Corsair Value but then again it won't affect your performance significantly anyway.

    Absoposolutely hit DFI Street & use RGone's guide.
     
  4. Lukano

    Lukano Limp Gawd

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    You are both my heroes of the week. That's fantastic!

    I'll run through all of that and post back with some results later today or tomorrow.

    Thanks again! :)
     
  5. Lukano

    Lukano Limp Gawd

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    It still feels absolutely and utterly wrong to be setting my ram to 266mhz speed settings - but I'm doing it.

    Tried your default suggestions ashmedai, and most seem to be working fine. I can't seem to push my FSB (HTT) any higher than 260-270 right now for some reason, but I have clocked back HTT multi, cpu multi and the dram ratio... anything else I might be missing that's acting as a roadblock to the FSB (HTT)?

    edit - I've also seen my CPU temps get as high as about 42C with stock cooling - should I be concerned?
     
  6. ashmedai

    ashmedai [H]ardForum Junkie

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    A64 normally is about 30C, hits 40C after prolonged heavy load, and tends to go back to 30C very quickly.

    Slowing down your memory is just temporary while you overclock the CPU and only the CPU to see how high it goes, it's to make sure the memory isn't being pushed too far in the process and futzing up the results.

    Keep the CPU multiplier on 9x since that's the most you've on the 3000+. As you get higher you're going to need LDT voltage of 1.4 or 1.5, and the CPU voltage will have to go up eventually as its clock rises. 1.55V (Vcore AND Startup) seems to be enough for 2.7-2.8GHz on a Venice in most cases.

    Have some useful stuff linked in my sig, check those out.
     
  7. Lukano

    Lukano Limp Gawd

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    I'm actually walking through the step-by-step in the A64 OC Data thread as we speak. Up to 270 on the FSB (HTT) stepping with everything else lowered. So far so good, temps sitting aroun 38C.

    What's the absolute maximum I should see my CPU sitting at for sustained 100% load - just as a reference point.
     
  8. Russ

    Russ [H]ard|Gawd

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    50c is comfortable, 55c is pushing. These are load temps, keep your idle temps in the low 40s!
     
  9. ashmedai

    ashmedai [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Er, this is A64, not some Intel chip...if it ever clears the low 40s, something is fricking weird...the "danger" temp is like 65C or something, but regardless you need to give things a good examination if the normal temps aren't 30Cish or the load temps are much over 40C.
     
  10. Lukano

    Lukano Limp Gawd

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    Hmm... well in my playing here, I've come up with a combination of 270mhz FSB (HTT), 9x CPU Multi & 3x HTT Multi. 2430mhz @ what appears to be an idle temp (using nvidia ntune monitor to read temps) of ~44-45C. I do have the voltage right up at 1.55 which may be part of the problem.

    edit - 265mhz FSB (HTT), 9x CPU Multiplier, 3x HTT Multiplier for 2385MHz. DRAM Voltage @ 2.90, CPU Voltage at 1.50. Temps sitting around 40 idle to 45C max when running Prime95 small or large FTT (which I'm assuming is putting this thing under near full strain?). So far this is the higest and most stable I've gotten it. Ram is still 5:6 ratio @ 166mhz. Had to force tRAS to 10 though in order to get it stable. I had it as high as 270 but it was erroring or crashing on various things. I've edited these values twice now though - as what I thought was stable has proved to not be a few times already.

    I'll leave it running all day and if anyone wants to give me suggestions on some changes / alterations with the info above and in my original post - please feel free. I'd like to see if I can push it over 2500 - or even 2600 with stock cooling.

    also thanks a bunch to everyone - I've learned a lot in the past 48hrs! :)
     
  11. Russ

    Russ [H]ard|Gawd

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    he is overclocking. if any overclock didnt clear the low 40s i really would be impressed -_-

    your temps sound pretty nice for stock. I would go by the idle temp more than load because it can go up in varying amounts. I'd say don't go above 45c ANY TIME for idle temps, not going above 42c or so would be about your oc temp limit imho.

    if your ram is at 5:6 @ 265 mhz that is 220 mhz. Maybe look at dropping a divider level to make sure your ram isnt holding you back. with a DRAM of 2.9 i doubt you'll go higher w/o a DFI board. I didn't see you mention what mobo you have, maybe you're hitting a wall there?
     
  12. Tunabow

    Tunabow [H]ard|Gawd

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    yeah u gotta go for more, i get 2.4 out of my winny no sweat.
     
  13. Lukano

    Lukano Limp Gawd

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    It is a DFI Ultra-d. I had mentioned it in the title but may have neglected to reiterate in the post itself.

    That makes sense that the ram is now 220mhz and perhaps that's what's causing my 265-270 ceiling. When I get home tonight I'll try dropping it another notch and see if I can push as high as 280-300.
     
  14. ashmedai

    ashmedai [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Funny enough, my computer just finished a batch list of XviD encoding that I set it on last night...

    A64 Venice 3000+ @ 2.7GHz. Temp never went above 38C. It's on air cooling, and quiet air cooling at that. Except for the damn graphics card that I haven't gotten around to fixing yet.

    If your temps go higher than that, it's not really going to hurt anything as it's still a long ways short of dangerous levels, but I'd definately reexamine everything to make sure there's nothing wrong. Misapplied thermal paste, for one, can have a large effect on your temps.
     
  15. Lukano

    Lukano Limp Gawd

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    This is where I admit that I did not use anything but the stock thermal compound on the heatsink. I don't have any thermal paste (Arctic silver - nor even silicon paste) handy and was assuming I'd get to that later. Could that account for the (perhaps large, perhaps minimal) discrepancy in temps?
     
  16. ashmedai

    ashmedai [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Maybe but I wouldn't have thought so...it's supposed to be Shin-Etsu or whatever and is pretty decent. Mine's just running an XP-90 with the random goop Thermalright put in the package. Ambient's like 65F possibly higher (no thermostat so I'm guessing) and there's a rear exaust fan.

    Thermal paste instead of the pad might give you a couple degrees, but per my earlier conjecture make sure you apply it correctly or it'll do more damage than good.

    Go into CPU-Z or Smartguardian or something and see what CPU voltage is being reported...mine's 1.55V which should probably be enough for most Venice overclocks. If your voltage is much higher than that it'll make your chip heat up significantly more.

    We have the same CPU plus in your first post you still had idle temps in the low 30s. So we know relatively well that yours can probably be lowered back to that level. Just have to hunt down what's causing the rise.
     
  17. Lukano

    Lukano Limp Gawd

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    I'll come back with precise data once I can get to my machine (might be tomorrow morning) but the "low 30" temps were top of the head figures - whereas the 40-45 temps were what I was seeing in cpu-z while typing up the post. I swear I did see the cpu running 27-28 degrees idle before I started overclocking though.

    I do have my voltage at 1.50 right now, was as high as 1.55 at one point. I recall seeing cpu-z reporting values around 1.47-1.49 when set at 1.50 (VID and startup) so I assume that's correct.

    I am running an older powersupply - 350w enermax. I can't see this being a big issue as I've got nothing excessive drawing power. Nor can I see it affecting heat.

    Might be an airflow issue too (have a Coolermaster Aero casefan exhausting out the back, plus the enermax has an internal intake right above, two front mount instakes) but as that arrangement worked fine on previous machines I assume it's not.
     
  18. Lukano

    Lukano Limp Gawd

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    So in dropping my ram divider to 5:6 or even 3:4 in order to be able to bump my FSB up - am I adversely affecting my ram performance in such a way that I may as well not be overclocking? It's disheartening to see my bios think I'm running 266mhz or slower ram - and it has me concerned.
     
  19. Lukano

    Lukano Limp Gawd

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    Okay, so I tried dropping my ram divider as low as it would go, and although I can successfully boot into windows I still lock up on Prime95 or any stress at all.

    I'm wondering if I'll need to start looking at bumping my LDT voltage (or any other voltage settings) up a bit. Secondarily, I'm wondering if my power supply is cutting it - is there some way I can test it or post some results using a tool of some sort and have someone critique it?

    Leaving CPU voltage @ 1.55 and DRAM voltage at 2.90 - I know it's high, but at least I know it's not voltage limiting me (I hope).

    I just can't get it to go any higher than 265 24/7 stable, 270-275 moderately idle stable.
     
  20. Lukano

    Lukano Limp Gawd

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    I was re-reading this thread here; http://www.hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1026972298&postcount=10

    And the impression I get is that you need to find a combination of ram multi / htt / divider that results in 200mhz for the PC3200 ram. If this is the case, then I assume my 265 HTT x 9x cpu multi x 5:6 ram is resulting in 220mhz - which is an incorrect ratio of sorts? So would this (other than the fact that the ram's running higher than it should be) be causing part of my problem? Will I then need to work out an equation that results in the ram being 200mhz or as close to - dead on?
     
  21. Russ

    Russ [H]ard|Gawd

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    you should slowly increase your voltages. Bumping it up a lot can produce instability.
     
  22. Lukano

    Lukano Limp Gawd

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    I've tried incremental steps in voltage on LDT, Chipset, CPU and DRAM now. End result is that I need to push each one to their maximum (and CPU needs to be 1.55 + 10%) in order to get 280 HTT stable(ish). When doing so, I'm able to run my ram @ CAS 2.5-3-3-10 with no errors in memtest - and run Prime95 for about an hour without errors on any test.

    BUT - it results in a 51C peak temperature under load, compared to a 38C idle/stock-settings temp. I know both are high, and it may be an airflow issue due to the location of my case, and the airflow in/out of the case. I will work with this a little more, but even then 51C is not dangerously high (as far as I've been told anyways) so therefore I'm starting to think it's not the cause of instability over 280 HTT.

    I've also come to the conclusion that it may not entirely be my ram causing this, and wonder if it might be my power supply. I don't know how to test it to see if it is the powersupply - or if not, how to diagnose what else it may be causing this 280 FSB ceiling. Is it even possible that my power supply is the culprit, causing me to have to set higher voltages on the above mentioned settings - in order to get a stable OC?

    3x HTT, 9x CPU when hitting that 280 HTT ceiling as well. Ram divider seems to only like 133 (I think it was 3:4, maybe 2:3?) That results in a 180mhz speed on the ram, which is obviously a little low. Any higher, and it starts to error or fail to boot into windows (always posts).

    So what do you think is causing it? I would hope/think my CPU is as broken in as it's going to get, 2 weeks alternating between OC'd values and stock.

    edit - Oh! I just realized something else. My 350w enermax only has a 20pin ATX connector. What are the chances that the additional power/rails with a proper 24pin connector/supply would help?
     
  23. ashmedai

    ashmedai [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Fair to good.

    Note, adapters don't always work any better than the original 20-pin supply did.
     
  24. Lukano

    Lukano Limp Gawd

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    That was my understanding too, so I'm looking at getting a Fortron / Sparkle AX500. Any thoughts?

    Also talking to NCIX about returning / RMA'ing my ram and stepping up to new ram. Can I get someone to critique that too before I jump in head first (as I did last time)? :)

    Power Supply - http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=14069&vpn=AX500-A&manufacture=FSP GROUP USA
    RAM OCZ Premier - http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=12104&vpn=OCZ4001024PDC-K&manufacture=OCZ Technology&promoid=1047
     
  25. ashmedai

    ashmedai [H]ardForum Junkie

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    If I'm not getting my names mixed up, that's supposed to be a nice one.

    The memory...well it doesn't look substantially different from what you've got now. Plus it's $185 even if that is in CAD. I know NCIX doesn't have the greatest selection, plus there's the whole RMA exchange thing acting to limit you to them if you do anything. But I'd stick with changing one thing at a time if possible instead of a lot of things at once.
     
  26. Lukano

    Lukano Limp Gawd

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    I'm still waiting on word back from a Corsair employee from another forum as to exactly what chips are on that Corsair valueram - AND I 've got a promo ticket that'll drop the price of the OCZ down to $139 (as opposed to the $127 I paid for the corsair value, and the $121 minus restock fee if applicable). So it's really only $20-30 more than what I had paid.

    Failing that - can anyone with a little NCIX digging find some ram that I should be looking at instead? I really haven't a clue what I'm looking at.
     
  27. ashmedai

    ashmedai [H]ardForum Junkie

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    No TwinMOS at all much less SP, which'd be my first choice for the board. However they do appear to carry quite a few choices by Crucial...Micron -5b chips are almost as good as CH-5 as far as overclockability and latencies go, with a lower voltage requirement (that part not being something you have to care about, you DFI owner). The fun part - Crucial = Micron. So even their cheap stuff has some of the same properties.

    Also, anything reputable you can pick up with a Ras to Cas & Ras Precharge of 2 is nice. Anything cheap, anyway.
     
  28. fenderltd

    fenderltd [H]ard|DCer of the Month - July 2007

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    You running ram @ 1T or 2T? even though 1T is 10% better in latency, I had a hard time in the start of running ram @1T vs 2T. Whats your volts on your rails? Perhaps that 350 isnt enough/esp. with it being 20pin.
     
  29. Herulach

    Herulach Gawd

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    Isn't Samsung OEM ram all TCCD? (I've read your sig) but given that they only carry ballistix, and not crucial value then it looks about the only other half decent choice for similar money.
    [​IMG]
     
  30. Lukano

    Lukano Limp Gawd

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    Just got the okay for the return (looks like no restock fee either, fantastic). Just need to decide on the new ram.

    I'l seriously ram illterate - so if someone wants to or would be so kind as to link directly to a recommendation on NCIX.com - I'd be ever so grateful.

    edit - how safe would I be buying 2x of single sticks (samsung or something) for them to work dual channel - or do I need to buy these 2x512 kits?
     
  31. Lukano

    Lukano Limp Gawd

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  32. ashmedai

    ashmedai [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I'd stick to much closer to $100 plus or minus. I'm used to thinking in USD of course but you get the idea. Most DDR should be about $50ish give or take per 512MB module. If possible get X-3-3-X or X-2-2-X timings - the first and last number aren't as important. Although sometimes the big one that's usually last will be in the middle...

    Also NCIX's pricing sucks. I'm pretty sure ZipZoomFly ships to Canada, and they're pretty good, if a less selection than Newegg. A lot of places do RMA Refund + Rebuy instead of a pure exchange...don't suppose that's an option?

    Dual channel kits are just a marketing ploy, same as heatspreaders. Lets 'em tend to sell more than they might otherwise, plus they can pretend it's added value and price it up a little. Sometimes the kit is cheaper than seperate, in which case have fun. But don't go out of your way for it.
     
  33. ashmedai

    ashmedai [H]ardForum Junkie

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    BTW what's the USD ~ CAD conversion rate? Isn't it about $1 to $1.20?
     
  34. Lukano

    Lukano Limp Gawd

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    $1 USD = $1.27 according to www.xe.com

    So to simplify this (if I'm asking too much, just say so) would you or anyone else be able to take a quick snoop through http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?majorcatid=101&minorcatid=105 and let me know what you would recommend?

    Or should I really really be sticking with my Corsair Valueram 2.5-3-3-8 stuff? Is it really not as bad as I'm making it out to be? If it's not - then I'm back to the drawing board on what is causing the problem / 265 HTT ceiling at reasonable voltages.

    Also - I haven't asked about refund but I would assume I would be paying a restock if I went (and they offered/allowed) a refund. If I can get it from NCIX and take advantage of what I know to be fast shipping and reliable RMA - I'd rather as opposed to dealing with someone new.
     
  35. ashmedai

    ashmedai [H]ardForum Junkie

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    ZZF's one of the best. And they actually package hard drives well, for a rarity.

    I'd just keep the Corsair Value, it's good enough. Of course if you have a defective stick or something, RMA it for a new one. But that's that and this is this.

    With that 3000+ you're probably going to have to do LDT 1.5V Chipset 1.8V Startup 1.55V Vcore 1.55V HTT Multi 3x Mem Ratio 133 (improve later)...er I think that's most of it, should get you to 300HT. Just get a proper 24 pin power supply for now, that should help the whole system out and possibly solve all your problems.
     
  36. Lukano

    Lukano Limp Gawd

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    Oh... ok then. Well I noticed in your rundown that you have 1.8V startup which I currently keep matched to Vcore. I'll try jumping that up.

    So you really think the ram's not that bad eh? Well if that's the case, maybe I can use the money I'd be saving not upgrading the ram, and get a better hs/f and put the difference into the power supply.

    So now for the next question of the day (I apologize for how quickly I'm jumping topics, I just want to narrow down if I'm keeping or losing the ram before NCIX drops my current RMA).

    http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=13794&vpn=FREEZER 64&manufacture=Arctic Cooling)http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=13794&vpn=FREEZER 64&manufacture=Arctic Cooling

    vs ?

    http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=12760&vpn=XP-90&manufacture=THERMALRIGHT

    or?

    http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=12441&vpn=XP-120&manufacture=THERMALRIGHT
     
  37. ashmedai

    ashmedai [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Chipset 1.8V. Sorry for not using commas or anything. ^_^

    I have an XP-90 myself. The XP-120 is kinda huge without really helping much over the XP-90. The other one...looks okay if you like it, never tried it though.
     
  38. Lukano

    Lukano Limp Gawd

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    Whoops - my fault. I guess I'm dyslexic today.

    I've heard good things about the xp-90 and/or 120's (space permitting). The other contraption was at the recommendation of a buddy of mind who's building a similar rig. I haven't a clue how it compare's to the XP's (I'll have to ask him).

    So if I want to test my ram to see if one stick might be the culprit here - how would you suggest I do it? That way I can perhaps eliminate them from the equation for the time being.
     
  39. ashmedai

    ashmedai [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Memtest followed by Prime95 (although that's more CPU but everything overall has to be stable for it to work for long).

    I'm not too fond of heatsinks with integral fans. The XP-90 is one of the best around. Don't know if SVC.com ships to Canada but if they do they have good prices on the XP-90 fairly often.
     
  40. Lukano

    Lukano Limp Gawd

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    Well all told I'm not discouraged by the price on the xp-90 even from NCIX. That plus a decent fan isn't half bad. Should be more than $60 CDN I would figure.

    Any fan recommendations? :p I was just reading that the "contraption" (Freezer 64 or whatever it's called) is very quiet - one of the major bonuses.