A question about DVI cables

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rene mauricio

Gawd
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Jun 27, 2004
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I have myself a new TFT screen, actually my first since I have been using CRTs since the beginning, and I was wondering if there was any difference between this $13.00 cable and this $130.00 cable I purchased for my HTPC. Of course one of them is gold plated and blah blah blah... but in terms of image quality, will the cheaper $13.00 one be better than the current analog cable I am using. If it is then I will order it right away, if not then I guess I will stick to the cable I have and use it until I can scrounge up another $130.00 for another gold plated DVI cable.
 
$130!! Holy mother of god! When I paid $35 for a pretty good dual link DVI cable I thought I was getting ripped off, but jesus! I would say go a little higher on the DVI cable price, maybe over $20-30, and you won't see a shit bit of difference in the quality.
 
People have been arguing about cables forever. Many people think you get what you pay for, many others scoff (and use Monster Cables as their argument), I agree with both to an extent. Specifically with DVI cables, though, I think you're better off going with a brand you know. I wouldn't say this for almost any other cable but DVI cable quality does play a part in image quality especially over long distances. That isn't to say the $13 cable is bad, just that of all the cables you will buy in life (rgb, component, svid, speaker wire, interconnects, rca, coax digital, optical, etc...) DVI is probably one of the only ones where the build quality of the cable will really ever come into play. Will it make a difference over a 3-6 foot run? Probably not. Will it make a difference over 15-20+ feet? Probably.
 
JackieO said:
People have been arguing about cables forever. Many people think you get what you pay for, many others scoff (and use Monster Cables as their argument), I agree with both to an extent. Specifically with DVI cables, though, I think you're better off going with a brand you know. I wouldn't say this for almost any other cable but DVI cable quality does play a part in image quality especially over long distances. That isn't to say the $13 cable is bad, just that of all the cables you will buy in life (rgb, component, svid, speaker wire, interconnects, rca, coax digital, optical, etc...) DVI is probably one of the only ones where the build quality of the cable will really ever come into play. Will it make a difference over a 3-6 foot run? Probably not. Will it make a difference over 15-20+ feet? Probably.
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I don't see why this would be true as the DVI cable is carrying a digital signal. Either the monitor can read the 1 or 0 or it can't. I could have a $400 cable or a $4 cable but as long as the receiver can see the difference in voltage between on and off the image will look EXACTLY the same. That's one of the beautiful benefits when going digital. So I would say that when going DVI, the quality of the cable makes the least amount of difference. Analog is a different story, but $400 for a cable is ridiculous even for analog IMHO.
 
It has to do with the length of the cable and the amount of data it will be able to carry. It's usually more a concern when trying to carry a 1080i/p and audio signal (HDMI). For example, as far as I know it is currently not possible to carry an HDMI signal over 20 meters. Maybe they have increased that since I last checked but the point is as the length gets longer the data strength gets worse. For a computer monitor odds are that will never come into play - but since this question included a $130 cable for an HTPC I thought it might be relevant to note that length/quality can play a part in a DVI cables worth. Would I pay $130 for a DVI cable? Probably not - but I might if it was a 15m long custom made HDMI cable. Like I mentioned earlier, if you're only carrying video over 6 feets odds are the cable quality will never matter.
 
I bought a 1M Monster DVI cable for my 1860NX monitor, I could tell a difference in picture quality, colors seemed brighter, and lines sharper. Was it worth the $100? Not IMO.
 
Thank you everyone. Based on what you all said I decided to purchase that $13.00 cable. I sure hope it works (fits) because I am not 100% it will. I have a PowerColor X800 PRO VIVO and my monitor is a ViewSonic VX710., which says is uses a DVI-D connection (and of course I have no idea what the difference between DVI, DVI-D and DVI-I is/are)

I guess the only thing I can ask for is that it fits on both ends and that my text really does become noticeably sharper in the end.
 
rene mauricio said:
Thank you everyone. Based on what you all said I decided to purchase that $13.00 cable. I sure hope it works (fits) because I am not 100% it will. I have a PowerColor X800 PRO VIVO and my monitor is a ViewSonic VX710., which says is uses a DVI-D connection (and of course I have no idea what the difference between DVI, DVI-D and DVI-I is/are)

I guess the only thing I can ask for is that it fits on both ends and that my text really does become noticeably sharper in the end.
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Yeah, 130 is too much for a cable. I don't think you'll be able to tell all that much difference in everyday use anyways. You will hopefully have a better display going from VGA to DVI though. :)
 
hopefully this isn't stupid....but what's the difference between dual link and single link dvi cables?
 
The difference is bandwidth. Single link = 165 million pixels per second, dual link = 330 million. At this time there are almost no displays or devices which require dual link (since single link can easily do 1920x1080x60Hz), in the future there might be a need for dual link (20xx X 16xx resolutions).

Oh, and this is a good time to mention that I bought one of those $13 DVI cables (6 foot) and it did not work. I am sure it was just a funny coincidence, but still. :)
 
Monster cables are inanely priced IMO. Good quality but about 5 times more than you need to spend.
 
Ah, the cable debate, again. I have over 30 years in the AV as well as the Computer business, if fact they are combined. The lack of knowledge about cables and what is good and not so good still astounds me. People will pay over a thousand dollars for a decent monitor and balk at a hook up cable. Makes no sense.

The first argument is “Monster Cable”, “Way too expensive”. Go cable shopping, Monster at it’s best is pretty good mid priced cable. Just pretty good, nowhere near the best. (good speaker cable can START at $400.00 a foot)

When I hooked up the HI DEF TV my wife watches (after 34 years of marriage most of you will find you and your spouse will probably be watching different TVs, but that’s another subject). I was in a hurry and used the DVI cable from my Samsung 213T until I had more time to finish the setup. She was quite happy. Last week I replaced that cable with a Monster DVI to HDMI cable and said nothing. It took and hour and she came into my office to ask what I had changed, she noticed her picture was much better.

I go to each customer’s house to set up what ever I sell him or her. Once everything is placed I do a basic hook up, make sure it’s set up the way the customer wants, then I start swapping cables, audio and video. The average is 8 out of 10 people buy the better cables only after a demonstration. As a rule 10 of 10 can see and or hear a difference but some won’t spend the money, of course it’s their choice, but I do give them that choice.

25 years ago Stereo Review almost went out of business because they published an article stating that “No one could hear the difference between the then new Monster Cable and 18ga lamp cord” The following month the magazine was 21 pages instead of the usual 80 to 100 pages. There were less then 10 ads in that issue. Every major manufacture had pulled their advertising because even though cable technology was new at the time they all knew you could hear the difference. The New York Audio Society had done the testing Stereo Review published. What came out was Stereo Review had blatantly lied about that review. The actual outcome of that review ended up in several other magazines. Ownership of Stereo Review changed hands shortly thereafter.

If you don’t want to spend money for cable fine, but please don’t tell people there is no difference just because you can’t justify it in your own mind and or wallet.

A guick link to the real world of AV cable:

http://www.goodwinshighend.com/cable.htm
 
Thanks for the history lesson Bill, I know my punk ass could use more of it...

As for the Monster Cable comment, well, it's basically what I already believed; there are better calbes out there, and there are cheaper cables out there, but for the price and the fact that you can find it anywhere, Monster Cable DOES just f*cking work. I'll pay a price to have something just work; many people will; this is where they have succeeded.
 
BigDH01 said:
I don't see why this would be true as the DVI cable is carrying a digital signal. Either the monitor can read the 1 or 0 or it can't. I could have a $400 cable or a $4 cable but as long as the receiver can see the difference in voltage between on and off the image will look EXACTLY the same. That's one of the beautiful benefits when going digital. So I would say that when going DVI, the quality of the cable makes the least amount of difference. Analog is a different story, but $400 for a cable is ridiculous even for analog IMHO.
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So what about this? If it works, how could you expect it to work any better (better cables) when we are talking one's and zeros?
 
delbert said:
So what about this? If it works, how could you expect it to work any better (better cables) when we are talking one's and zeros?
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Bigger one's and zero's?

I guess it's more difficult to envision what signal loss means when it comes to digital compared to analog. Maybe Bill can help us out here again :D
 
The same question was asked earlier in the thread:

BigDH01 said:
I don't see why this would be true as the DVI cable is carrying a digital signal. Either the monitor can read the 1 or 0 or it can't. I could have a $400 cable or a $4 cable but as long as the receiver can see the difference in voltage between on and off the image will look EXACTLY the same. That's one of the beautiful benefits when going digital. So I would say that when going DVI, the quality of the cable makes the least amount of difference. Analog is a different story, but $400 for a cable is ridiculous even for analog IMHO.
Click to expand...

And answered.

JackieO said:
It has to do with the length of the cable and the amount of data it will be able to carry. It's usually more a concern when trying to carry a 1080i/p and audio signal (HDMI). For example, as far as I know it is currently not possible to carry an HDMI signal over 20 meters. Maybe they have increased that since I last checked but the point is as the length gets longer the data strength gets worse. For a computer monitor odds are that will never come into play - but since this question included a $130 cable for an HTPC I thought it might be relevant to note that length/quality can play a part in a DVI cables worth. Would I pay $130 for a DVI cable? Probably not - but I might if it was a 15m long custom made HDMI cable. Like I mentioned earlier, if you're only carrying video over 6 feets odds are the cable quality will never matter.
Click to expand...

For computer monitors it will almost never matter. When DVI quality matters is when you're making HDMI runs of 15+ feet. Signal loss means the 1's and 0's don't get to where they are going, and you get quality loss or no picture/sound at all. Keep in mind a custom made 15 foot HDMI cable will set you back about $200 at the *lowest*, and the powered repeaters go for $300-$1000 a pop (every 15 feet). There are a couple reasons they are so expensive, one of them is quality.
 
BillR said:
25 years ago Stereo Review almost went out of business because they published an article stating that “No one could hear the difference between the then new Monster Cable and 18ga lamp cord” The following month the magazine was 21 pages instead of the usual 80 to 100 pages. There were less then 10 ads in that issue. Every major manufacture had pulled their advertising because even though cable technology was new at the time they all knew you could hear the difference. The New York Audio Society had done the testing Stereo Review published. What came out was Stereo Review had blatantly lied about that review. The actual outcome of that review ended up in several other magazines. Ownership of Stereo Review changed hands shortly thereafter.
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I've trouble finding how this is related. That's got nothing to do with the fact that cable quality matters and everything to do with the fact that marketing interests are strong and you don't want to piss off your advertisers, whether you were telling the truth or not. Same happens in photography magazines, I can barely even think of a worthwhile one being published in the US anymore.

The whole cable thing is a big debate and likely will forever be. Particularly now that digital is in the mix. The quality of the cable matters to the extent that you need to know if the signal can travel from point A to point B with digital. Analog is much more sensitive to it along a continuous scale, small minor degredations can occur along the entire path. If you've got degredation with digital it's going to become apparent very quickly in many cases.

You cannot exactly equate the cable debate and concerns of degredation in digital signals to analog signals.
 
JackieO said:
There are a couple reasons they are so expensive, one of them is quality.
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And a bigger reason is market demand. The vast majority of people do not need, or do not care if they actually do need that kind of equipment. It's expensive to make it in the smaller numbers, and of course there's also appropriate markup so people know they're getting something better. :rolleyes: it's business
 
Yes, that is why I said there are a couple reasons they are so expensive. It's definitely a niche market.
 
delbert said:
So what about this? If it works, how could you expect it to work any better (better cables) when we are talking one's and zeros?
Click to expand...

I knew when I wrote the original post there would be answers like this and I though “Why bother”. I was probably right. No reason Sony spends over $1000.00 a meter for digital cables, it’s only ones and zeros. Things like “Time Domain” and all that other technical stuff don’t mean anything. Impedance of cable means nothing either, especially for those ones and zeros, that’s why the cable company went to so much trouble to re-teach their techs not to make right angle bends in your TV cable, it tends to change the internal impedance of the cable thus changing how those pesky ones and zeros get to your digital/Hidef cable box, not to mention your cable modem.

Oh, lest we forget, digital signals don’t all travel at the same frequency at the same time (that time domain thing again) so what could it matter if different information got to the end of the wire at the different times? Oh yeah, I forgot, “error correction” fixes that. But wait, if you have to use error correction what happened to the purity of your wonderful ones and zeros?

Lucas, Sony etc all have engineering white papers on all this. I didn’t make it up to sell you anything. I only thought perhaps a few of you might have open enough minds to want to learn.
 
BillR said:
I knew when I wrote the original post there would be answers like this and I though “Why bother”. I was probably right. No reason Sony spends over $1000.00 a meter for digital cables, it’s only ones and zeros. Things like “Time Domain” and all that other technical stuff don’t mean anything. Impedance of cable means nothing either, especially for those ones and zeros, that’s why the cable company went to so much trouble to re-teach their techs not to make right angle bends in your TV cable, it tends to change the internal impedance of the cable thus changing how those pesky ones and zeros get to your digital/Hidef cable box, not to mention your cable modem.

Oh, lest we forget, digital signals don’t all travel at the same frequency at the same time (that time domain thing again) so what could it matter if different information got to the end of the wire at the different times? Oh yeah, I forgot, “error correction” fixes that. But wait, if you have to use error correction what happened to the purity of your wonderful ones and zeros?

Lucas, Sony etc all have engineering white papers on all this. I didn’t make it up to sell you anything. I only thought perhaps a few of you might have open enough minds to want to learn.
Click to expand...

Shut up, sitting in the corner, and learning. Lol.
 
Ahh, but bill in a general sense it isn't of concern to many people, and won't affect them in a visible way. People know not to bend their cables, but other than that most of that's just extra fluff.
 
Yes, well I do feel ignorant for not being able to understand. It’s been my understanding that ones and zeros were just that. Is it error correction, or error checking? I thought if the data stream was not pure, the whole lot of ones and zeros were discarded and wait for the next packet hoping they all arrive intact. If my LCD looked blurry or had a lot of noise I sure wouldn’t think my DVI cables were to blame. If they didn’t work at all I probably would question them.
I’m sure others here picked up what you were saying Bill. I just take awhile to come around sometimes.
 
delbert said:
Yes, well I do feel ignorant for not being able to understand. It’s been my understanding that ones and zeros were just that. Is it error correction, or error checking? I thought if the data stream was not pure, the whole lot of ones and zeros were discarded and wait for the next packet hoping they all arrive intact. If my LCD looked blurry or had a lot of noise I sure wouldn’t think my DVI cables were to blame. If they didn’t work at all I probably would question them.
I’m sure others here picked up what you were saying Bill. I just take awhile to come around sometimes.
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Well in a sense you're correct. Damaged cables/etc can result in much higher latencies and slower data transmission because it keeps getting lost along the way, in a very basic sense. So jump up and down on your cat 5 a few times or chew on the cable line coming in to your house and you'll see what I mean.

Digital signals can degrade, but in a visual sense with video, the effect is very different.
 
delbert said:
Yes, well I do feel ignorant for not being able to understand. It’s been my understanding that ones and zeros were just that. Is it error correction, or error checking? I thought if the data stream was not pure, the whole lot of ones and zeros were discarded and wait for the next packet hoping they all arrive intact. If my LCD looked blurry or had a lot of noise I sure wouldn’t think my DVI cables were to blame. If they didn’t work at all I probably would question them.
I’m sure others here picked up what you were saying Bill. I just take awhile to come around sometimes.
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Lol, I never used the word “Ignorant”, it just doesn’t fit here. There are many things in the world I will never understand.

You’re right on both counts about error checking and error correction. You really can’t have one without the other they go hand in hand. Digital is a funny thing, it’s supposed to be a “pure form” but nothing is perfect, so it needs checked. If there is an error then it needs to be corrected.

Think for a moment of an audio CD. They get scratched, dirty etc. If the laser “saw” a scratch as real information it could well send a pulse to your speakers leaving your woofers laying on the floor or your tweeter smoking. Error correction sort of “fixes” this and prevents damage. The bigger problem is the minor bits of dirt and marks, in this case error checking “sees” a problem so it re-reads the disk several times. This is good except for one thing, the error correction circuits have no idea what your might be listening to. It might be a Steinway grand piano or it might be a child’s toy piano both of which sound very different. This is where the error correction circuits come into play but they have limitations. Someone had to write a mathematical algorithm to “take a best guess” at what you were supposed to hear. The better the math, the more accurate the sound. The more you pay for the CD player. The same holds true for the Digital to Analog converters in the CD player, you get what you pay for.

Now think in terms of your video games and how complex they have become and apply that to my simple example above. It does get complicated for sure.

The whole idea of the process, audio, video and any data is to get a perfect transfer from point “A” to point “B”. Everything between point “A” and “B” is “In the way”. Including something as simple as a piece of wire.

Make sense? ;)
 
BillR said:
Lol, I never used the word “Ignorant”, it just doesn’t fit here. There are many things in the world I will never understand.

You’re right on both counts about error checking and error correction. You really can’t have one without the other they go hand in hand. Digital is a funny thing, it’s supposed to be a “pure form” but nothing is perfect, so it needs checked. If there is an error then it needs to be corrected.

Think for a moment of an audio CD. They get scratched, dirty etc. If the laser “saw” a scratch as real information it could well send a pulse to your speakers leaving your woofers laying on the floor or your tweeter smoking. Error correction sort of “fixes” this and prevents damage. The bigger problem is the minor bits of dirt and marks, in this case error checking “sees” a problem so it re-reads the disk several times. This is good except for one thing, the error correction circuits have no idea what your might be listening to. It might be a Steinway grand piano or it might be a child’s toy piano both of which sound very different. This is where the error correction circuits come into play but they have limitations. Someone had to write a mathematical algorithm to “take a best guess” at what you were supposed to hear. The better the math, the more accurate the sound. The more you pay for the CD player. The same holds true for the Digital to Analog converters in the CD player, you get what you pay for.

Now think in terms of your video games and how complex they have become and apply that to my simple example above. It does get complicated for sure.

The whole idea of the process, audio, video and any data is to get a perfect transfer from point “A” to point “B”. Everything between point “A” and “B” is “In the way”. Including something as simple as a piece of wire.

Make sense? ;)
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Yep. I'm just reading along.
 
BillR said:
Lucas, Sony etc all have engineering white papers on all this. I didn’t make it up to sell you anything. I only thought perhaps a few of you might have open enough minds to want to learn.
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Bill, cut to the chase, for Dual Link DVI cables, support min. 2560x1600, who's the best?
 
Happy Hopping said:
Bill, cut to the chase, for Dual Link DVI cables, support min. 2560x1600, who's the best?
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How much are you willing to spend? The cheapest I've seen at a store is about $35 for a so-so brand.
 
JackieO said:
At this time there are almost no displays or devices which require dual link (since single link can easily do 1920x1080x60Hz), in the future there might be a need for dual link (20xx X 16xx resolutions).
Click to expand...


Actually, Apple's 30" Cinema Display uses Dual Link DVI. They even ship some of the Powermacs with a Geforce 6800 of some sort that has dual dual link. Yup, two ports.
 
I know something that will really drive you guys crazy! :D

Think about this....

Your LCD monitor is most likely plugged directly into the wall for AC power, or maybe you have a power strip, or better yet maybe you have a surge supressor/power strip combo.

Think of all the dirty power coming into your LCD from EMI, RF, etc. from the AC lines and your other electronics gear that shares your outlet???? Do a little research, and you will see that dirty power has a HUGE effect on audio/video quality.

Now lets take another look at that dirty power...

Do you think you are always getting exactly 120 volts AC??? Isnt that what your PC is designed for?? Ever been reading by a lamp and noticed the lamp dim or surge extra bright while reading? Oh yeah...voltage fluctuation will effect your audio/video quality too.

So now you need a high-end DVI cable (among other audio/video cables) AND high-end AC cables, a voltage stabilizer, and a line conditioner if you really want the best quality! :p


Prepare to spend thousands on this gear alone!
 
ehZn said:
How much are you willing to spend? The cheapest I've seen at a store is about $35 for a so-so brand.
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With a $1200 to $1400 video card, a $3300 monitor, I can afford a few hundred bucks on the cable. And I agree w/ the above, definitely a UPS w/ 1400VA to top it all off.
 
Happy Hopping said:
With a $1200 to $1400 video card, a $3300 monitor, I can afford a few hundred bucks on the cable. And I agree w/ the above, definitely a UPS w/ 1400VA to top it all off.
Click to expand...

You could also spare a few hundred bucks to send my way :D
 
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