A problem with birds, dust, and cooling.

[shanepez]

Update: I already have filters on all the fans. Dust from these suckers STILL manage to get in the case. I clean the filters regularly with a mini shopvac.

TL;DR at the end.

So, my fiancee has birds. They aren't going anywhere, and they are on the farthest possible part away from the bedroom, which happens to be the computer room. That isn't going to change, unfortunately. For those of you that don't know, birds are incredibly dusty creatures. It has to do with the way feathers pierce their skin.

Every 2-3 weeks, I take my computer outside and with an air compressor, dust it out. And every time, it's FULL of dust. It got to the point that it wasn't enough. My video card was STILL overheating. I took it apart completely, and with some rubbing alcohol and a toothbrush cleaned the living crap out of it. Seems to be stable for now.

I've never done water cooling but have starting doing some research, and I am a bit intrigued. Instead of having to clean out the entire system, I may just have to clean out the radiator, which would be a huge bonus, and hopefully increase the longevity of my PC parts.

I don't do any overclocking, but what entices me the most is not having any air travel through the inside of the system, and hopefully no dust. I have tried fan filters as well. I have a filter over each one of the fans, but it still gets very dusty.

TL;DR
I have to dust out my entire PC every 2-3 weeks because of bird dust.

My question is; would liquid cooling be worth it for me? If I have a liquid cooling setup to cool the CPU/GPU/Memory/SSD could I remove all the fans? Is it possible to take just the radiator part off to clean regularly? Can anyone think of any other options? Anyone have any suggestions on some setups for a water cooling n00b?

 

[Tsumi]

To have no fans, you need radiators designed for passive heat dissipation. Most, if not all, computer radiators are not designed for passive heat dissipation. The closest ones would be ones with very low FPI.

Yes, it would be possible to easily take it off if you have quick-disconnects. For your situation I would highly recommend an external radiator setup, with something like a MoRa Pro 3. However, you're talking about a huge expense. You will be looking at spending upwards of $700 on watercooling equipment. The only RAM that is easily watercooled are the Corsair Dominators, and those RAM are very expensive. Otherwise, you would have to get "naked" RAM (no heatspreaders). Your motherboard would also need cooling as well if there is no airflow in the case.

It will not be a small endeavor. You're talking about $700+ worth of parts, and several hours of labor/setup time. You will probably need to spend at least a weekend setting it up.

Phobya Xtreme XTREME Nova 1080 (9x120): $110, or upgrade to the SUPERNOVA 1260 (9x140): $220
2x Laing D5 (or similar): $60 each
Reservoir: $20-100
CPU waterblock: $60-80
GPU waterblock: $60-80 (for universal waterblocks)
GPU RAM/VRM heatsinks (necessary with universal waterblocks): $20
RAM waterblock: $50-80
Motherboard blocks: $50-100
Koolance 2.5" hdd waterblock: $80
Two pairs of quickdisconnects: $40-60
Misc items (tubings, fittings, etc): $40-80

 

[Erasmus354]

You should look at making sure your case has positive air pressure. To do this you want more fans sucking air into the case than there are fans pulling air out. This will force the air to leak out all of the little holes and seams in the case.

The next thing you want to do is install some air filters for all of your intake fans. Clean the filters regularly. This should significantly cut down on the amount of dust that makes it into your system.


Try those steps first before you even consider moving to water cooling would be my suggestion. Water cooling won't lessen the amount of cleaning you have to do because it still ultimately relies on using fans to dissipate the heat to the air, it just does that at the radiator instead of a heatsink strapped to the chip.

 

[Quix]

Fan filters are the only thing that will help you, given the requirements. Even liquid cooling ends up sucking air at the end. You'd just end up cleaning your rad every 2-3 weeks.

It's a shame those birds couldn't just live in another room, I thought cats were bad... but their fur is large enough that it just catches on the outside of the fan filters and you just clean them off.

 

[THUMPer]

Filters.

 

[dandragonrage]

put filters on all fans, including exhaust fans. Dust can still leak in through those if the PC is off or if the fans are running slowly (like if they are on dynamic mode and the PC is idling). If you keep your fans on full blast all the time and leave the PC on all the time, the exhaust fan filters might not be that beneficial, but why limit yourself to that rather than spending $5-10 more on getting filters for all fans?

As for water cooling, generally it still needs a fan. You need a relatively large radiator otherwise, and even then it would not work if clogged up with dust.

I'd sooner put the PC in the bedroom if the birds can't be moved. Seems like an unreasonable requirement.

 

[shanepez]

You should look at making sure your case has positive air pressure...

So I did a quick count, 5 fans intake, 2 out. All the intake fans have filters on them. And again, I'd rather clean 1 external radiator than all the internal components.

Fan filters are the only thing that will help you, given the requirements...

I DO have fan filters! On ALL the fans! It definitely helps, but doesn't seem to help all that much. One thing I didn't mention is that bird dust is very sticky, and doesn't like to come off easily, hence the alcohol and toothbrush. And I'd much rather clean the radiator every 2-3 weeks than EVERY part of in my PC every 2-3 weeks.

To have no fans, you need radiators designed for passive heat dissipation...

Thanks for the reply! Sorry, I meant no internal fans. If I have an external radiator, it can have as many fans as needed. I didn't realize it would be such a huge expense. Would most of these parts be reusable for future PC systems? If so, I might do it and just reuse it.

 

[shanepez]

Filters.

Yes, I has all the filters already.

put filters on all fans, including exhaust fans. ...

I'd sooner put the PC in the bedroom if the birds can't be moved. Seems like an unreasonable requirement.

I have filters on all the intake fans. I don't have them on the exhaust fans. I can look into that.

No computers in the bedroom. The whole point is to keep the sleeping space separate from the computer space. We both sleep much better that way. Like I said, the birds aren't going anywhere and this is the only practical room for the computers.

 

[dandragonrage]

I DO have fan filters! On ALL the fans! It definitely helps, but doesn't seem to help all that much. One thing I didn't mention is that bird dust is very sticky, and doesn't like to come off easily, hence the alcohol and toothbrush. And I'd much rather clean the radiator every 2-3 weeks than EVERY part of in my PC every 2-3 weeks.

Sounds like your only remaining option is getting an air purifier. And you should probably get a GOOD air purifier like IQAir (the best I know of but VERY expensive both initially and for filters - $600-1000 up front and something like $200-300 a year for filters I think but these are basically hospital grade), Alen (still a good few hundred up front and around $75-150/yr for filters), Austin Air, Blueair, etc.

I'd avoid the cheap Honeywells and such though they should still help some.

No computers in the bedroom. The whole point is to keep the sleeping space separate from the computer space

??? Can't you just... sleep while not using the computer? I mean, it is your decision and all, but you're shooting down every reasonable suggestion and seem to have no decent reason for doing so. Is your computer really loud and you want to run it 24/7 or something? Maybe you could consider compromise by shutting the PC down at night?

 

[Tsumi]

If you go with universal GPU blocks, yes, everything would be reusable besides the motherboard blocks. Universal motherboard blocks are not 100% universal. Specifically for the VRM section.

 

[shanepez]

Sounds like your only remaining option is getting an air purifier...


??? Can't you just... sleep while not using the computer?...

I actually just bought an air purifier, because my fiancee just tested positive for a slight allergy to bird dander. This is the one I got:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00KXV8KIK

So, the computer in the bedroom discussion: this gets a bit into my personal life, but I will digress. Having electronics, tvs, laptops, computers, and other things that create light in the bedroom impacts sleep negatively. There are a number of articles, studies, and other writings about this topic.

http://sleepfoundation.org/ask-the-expert/electronics-the-bedroom
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/01/06/children-electronics-sleep_n_6422162.html
http://www.webmd.com/sleep-disorders/features/power-down-better-sleep
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/10/really-using-a-computer-before-bed-can-disrupt-sleep/?_r=0

About two years ago my fiancee and I decided to try it out. We took out everything in the bedroom that had a light, I installed phone chargers into the drawer of our bedside tables, so they would be hidden, and I put tape over all the little red lights around the bedroom. After a few weeks, I felt much better rested, got to sleep faster, and slept longer. So, now we keep a minimal amount of electronics in the bedroom. Meaning no PCs, TVs, laptops, tablets, etc. All of that happens outside of the bedroom.

 

[dandragonrage]

I haven't used Winix air purifiers but I have read that they work well for the money. I would also highly consider them if I were buying one now (but I have a couple of Alens so I have no need to try out a Winix right now). Should have included them in my list above but I forgot.

As for the sleep thing, I understand that many people find it easier to sleep with less light and noise, but you could just turn it off. I guess you've confirmed what I thought before - that you're the type that prefers not to turn off the PC - but that might be a potential compromise? Unless you're running some sort of server that you need on overnight...

 

[shanepez]

I haven't used Winix air purifiers but I have read that they work well for the money. I would also highly consider them if I were buying one now (but I have a couple of Alens so I have no need to try out a Winix right now). Should have included them in my list above but I forgot.

As for the sleep thing, I understand that many people find it easier to sleep with less light and noise, but you could just turn it off. I guess you've confirmed what I thought before - that you're the type that prefers not to turn off the PC - but that might be a potential compromise? Unless you're running some sort of server that you need on overnight...

I did some research online, and Winix scored well for the money. The replacement filters are like $100, and they last a year, and they are cleanable within that range. I have it going right now in between the birds and my computers. I spot checked it a couple of times and it's already pretty dusty.

I actually do turn the PC off at night, but that's not really the point. I usually stay up later than my fiancee, especially on the weekends. We recently did a kitchen remodel, and I had my computer in the bedroom for that entire time. It was constant fighting about turning the sound down / turning computer off / going to sleep. We are both much happier keeping the PCs out of the bedroom. That's, unfortunately, one thing that I won't compromise on. I appreciate the sentiment. I will do a bit more research on the water coolers, but for now I hope that the air filter will help!

 

[Erasmus354]

Sounds like you need to get better filters for your fans maybe?

 

[Nobu]

You people who keep suggesting (better) filters are being ridiculous. Animal (pet) dander can be (and I suspect with birds it usually is) very small--smaller than 1 micron. Any filter capable of keeping that out of a case would significantly reduce airflow, be too bulky, or would be prohibitively expensive, and you'd likely have to clean it (at least) weekly.

I think the solution for this is probably going to have to be either an air purifier or external water cooling, or move the computer/bird (but that doesn't appear to be an option). Water cooling would be the better long term solution (don't have to spend as much on up-keep), assuming non-reusable filters and ability to reuse components on future upgrades. But if the allergies were severe, I'd opt for the air purifier.

 

[Tsumi]

External radiator, quick disconnects, and a datavac, and you can clean it out in a matter of minutes.

 

[shanepez]

You people who keep suggesting (better) filters are being ridiculous. Animal (pet) dander can be (and I suspect with birds it usually is) very small--smaller than 1 micron. Any filter capable of keeping that out of a case would significantly reduce airflow, be too bulky, or would be prohibitively expensive, and you'd likely have to clean it (at least) weekly.

I think the solution for this is probably going to have to be either an air purifier or external water cooling, or move the computer/bird (but that doesn't appear to be an option). Water cooling would be the better long term solution (don't have to spend as much on up-keep), assuming non-reusable filters and ability to reuse components on future upgrades. But if the allergies were severe, I'd opt for the air purifier.

I don't know exactly how small bird dander is, but it's definitely getting past the filters. These are the filters that I am currently using:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811988015
I had to use a plastic trimmer and trim the edges a little bit to fit two of them next to each other. I clean them whenever I do a full PC clean, but little micro dust is still getting in. I could probably get better filters.

Like I mentioned above, I just bought a new air purifier, so the coming weeks will tell if it helps.

 

[shanepez]

External radiator, quick disconnects, and a datavac, and you can clean it out in a matter of minutes.

Yes, this is exactly what I am thinking about. Still looking for the specific pieces. Thank you for your suggestion above. I've been reading some guides, and the picture is becoming clearer.

 

[t1337Dude]

Datavac is the way to go. You're not going to eliminate the dust with any solution. Air purifiers and air filters are just going to be another thing you have to clean often. You want good, easy to remove and easy to clean filters over all your fans, and the diligence to clean them every couple weeks. That's all it takes, really.

 

[Gookitron]

Aside from the great recommendations listed (some of which I need to incorporate into my cleaning routine), have you also considered vacuuming the living space of your computer room? A weekly vacuum noticeably reduces the amount of dust particulates that settles on my electronic gizmos.

In essence it would be tackling the dust/dander both in the air and on the ground. And preferentially before it reaches the internals of the computer case.

 

[THUMPer]

Make sure you are replacing the Furnace/AC filter on a more than regular basis. IDK where you live so you may not have those even running now. But that is something to consider.

I actually just bought an air purifier, because my fiancee just tested positive for a slight allergy to bird dander.

Now I'm a little confused. What kind of birds are these?

 

[sonsonate]

Lol, my girlfriend's sister had a few big cockatoos and between the noise and the dust, I just couldn't understand why she bothered to have these large, dusty, noisy animals that belong in the wild in her room.

I can testify to the fact that you can't keep that dust out of your PC with a filter.

If you can't move it to another part of the house, the water cooling setup with external rad(s) would be your best bet.

 

[shanepez]

Datavac is the way to go. You're not going to eliminate the dust with any solution. Air purifiers and air filters are just going to be another thing you have to clean often. You want good, easy to remove and easy to clean filters over all your fans, and the diligence to clean them every couple weeks. That's all it takes, really.

I can probably get my fiancee to clean the air purifier. That's the difference.

Aside from the great recommendations listed (some of which I need to incorporate into my cleaning routine), have you also considered vacuuming the living space of your computer room? A weekly vacuum noticeably reduces the amount of dust particulates that settles on my electronic gizmos.

In essence it would be tackling the dust/dander both in the air and on the ground. And preferentially before it reaches the internals of the computer case.

We vacuum quite often. Birds are dusty machines.

Make sure you are replacing the Furnace/AC filter on a more than regular basis. IDK where you live so you may not have those even running now. But that is something to consider.



Now I'm a little confused. What kind of birds are these?

I replace the filter every 3-4 months while in use. We have cockatiels. 7 of them. 7 little dust factories.

Lol, my girlfriend's sister had a few big cockatoos and between the noise and the dust, I just couldn't understand why she bothered to have these large, dusty, noisy animals that belong in the wild in her room.

I can testify to the fact that you can't keep that dust out of your PC with a filter.

If you can't move it to another part of the house, the water cooling setup with external rad(s) would be your best bet.

I've been thinking about moving the birds, but fiancee won't let me put them downstairs. It's unheated, and they might freeze. Plus we never go down there, so we would never see them. The plus side with them being here is that we interact with them a lot and they are super sweet.

 

[babelmh13]

Update: I already have filters on all the fans. Dust from these suckers STILL manage to get in the case. I clean the filters regularly with a mini shopvac.

TL;DR at the end.

So, my fiancee has birds. They aren't going anywhere, and they are on the farthest possible part away from the bedroom, which happens to be the computer room. That isn't going to change, unfortunately. For those of you that don't know, birds are incredibly dusty creatures. It has to do with the way feathers pierce their skin.

Every 2-3 weeks, I take my computer outside and with an air compressor, dust it out. And every time, it's FULL of dust. It got to the point that it wasn't enough. My video card was STILL overheating. I took it apart completely, and with some rubbing alcohol and a toothbrush cleaned the living crap out of it. Seems to be stable for now.

I've never done water cooling but have starting doing some research, and I am a bit intrigued. Instead of having to clean out the entire system, I may just have to clean out the radiator, which would be a huge bonus, and hopefully increase the longevity of my PC parts.

I don't do any overclocking, but what entices me the most is not having any air travel through the inside of the system, and hopefully no dust. I have tried fan filters as well. I have a filter over each one of the fans, but it still gets very dusty.

TL;DR
I have to dust out my entire PC every 2-3 weeks because of bird dust.

My question is; would liquid cooling be worth it for me? If I have a liquid cooling setup to cool the CPU/GPU/Memory/SSD could I remove all the fans? Is it possible to take just the radiator part off to clean regularly? Can anyone think of any other options? Anyone have any suggestions on some setups for a water cooling n00b?

cheaper solution would be to free the birds. they sound like annoying pets anyway. OR turn your case into a birdcage. ive seen fish tank cases before. you could be an innovator.

 

[Reality]

you need positive pressure, it will force all the intake air to be filtered (since you said you have filters)

and all the other holes/seams in the case will be forced to push air out, not draw air in due to there being positive pressure

TL;DR

more intake fans than exhaust fans, and make sure your intakes are all filtered

problem solved

 

[jiminator]

get the computer off the ground, put it as high up as you can. There will be a massive difference from dust near the ground to dust on a desk

 

[Highwind]

Maybe a little extreme, but is it at all feasible to place the computer in the never-visited and always-cold lower floor while routing/extending cables to the bird room? Of course it'd be a hassle, the extensions would cost money, and there would be a limit on the extension length before it becomes unreliable.

Maybe a long shot but it's something...

 

[Nobu]

@Highwind: That's actually not a bad solution, especially if the OP is willing/able. Distance barriers can be overcome with active extenders, or you can just enable VNC or some other remote protocol and connect to the computer from a smaller passively cooled computer/thin-client.

 

[Tsumi]

It would probably be easier to route an external radiator out of the room (i.e. outside the window).