A nice Win 7 -> Win8 why upgrade article

It's interesting how nobody even mentions all the horribly bad things about Win8 and I'm not talking about the UI now.

App store is a slap in the face to many content distributors such as Valve and EA. Win8 also introduces a whole new level of built in spyware, MS holds the right to monitor basically everything you have on the computer and even choose for you if you can run certain programs. MS can remove programs from your computer at will if it sees it necessary. Win8 introduces 'secure boot' which is nothing but an attempt to further lock down the hardware and OS from end users and restrict people from using open source alternatives.

With Win8 users have less control of their computer than ever before - and if this trend gets supported MS is going to lock down the whole OS so tight it's going to be nothing more than a gaming console with paid office (free versions will be banned due to no code signging) and a bunch of MS approved apps that have 30% inflated prices due to MS tax.
 
B00nie said:
It's interesting how nobody even mentions all the horribly bad things about Win8 and I'm not talking about the UI now.

App store is a slap in the face to many content distributors such as Valve and EA. Win8 also introduces a whole new level of built in spyware, MS holds the right to monitor basically everything you have on the computer and even choose for you if you can run certain programs. MS can remove programs from your computer at will if it sees it necessary. Win8 introduces 'secure boot' which is nothing but an attempt to further lock down the hardware and OS from end users and restrict people from using open source alternatives.

With Win8 users have less control of their computer than ever before - and if this trend gets supported MS is going to lock down the whole OS so tight it's going to be nothing more than a gaming console with paid office (free versions will be banned due to no code signging) and a bunch of MS approved apps that have 30% inflated prices due to MS tax.
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People mention it, but most of it is speculations of what "could happen". I am a strong supporter of open standards (to the point that when or if Ubuntu becomes a fully supported gaming system, I might use only that), but I still have the ability to see positive sides with new software. The article I posted shows some of the benifits you get from upgrading from windows 7 to windows 8.

Its not a matter of perspective, those benifits are there, every benifit listed in that article.

Steam, Origin, Blizzard and others are all promoting their own closed system, where they get percentage of each game they sell. That we now have a MS app store with a new OS that also is build for use on mobile systems shouldn't come as a shock to anyone.

Windows 8 is still a system where you can have several app stores. There is nothing I cannot do on Windows 8 that I couldn't do on Windows 7. Infact, I have more options with windows 8 then what I ever had with windows 7.

The start menu in windows 7 sucks bigtime and have always sucked bigtime. The tree structure is horrible to navigate, much of what is installed, gets installed after the manufacturers name and not the product name. So, if I install Dirt 2, I have to navigate through programs -> codemasters -> dirt 2. That sucks so much, that I had a lot of programs pinned on top of the start menu, just for quicker access instead of the painfull tree navigation. Some, I stuck on the taskbar for quicker access.

With windows 8, I can still have the grouping (under all apps) by name, but I have a much larger place to pin apps to for a quick winkey access. Since I have several screens, windows 8 have natively given me more realestate when it comes to pinning items on taskbar.

Its all OK for me that some misses the old start menu. I'm not the one to post in all threads telling them how much I disagree. I have problems though understanding what they really liked with the old tree navigation style menu of win 7 though.
 
B00nie said:
Heh, which do you think the hardware manufacturers are going to side on? Rebelious consumer or MS payolas? If this trend is allowed to continue without a total revolt, soon there will be a day where you can only buy totally locked down hardware.
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Did you even bother to read the article?
 
Tsumi said:
Did you even bother to read the article?
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Of course I read it. The thinking behind the article was very very narrow and optimistic. Money rules the hardware ecosystem, ideology such as depicted in the article will never prosper.
 
Tamlin_WSGF said:
People mention it, but most of it is speculations of what "could happen". I am a strong supporter of open standards (to the point that when or if Ubuntu becomes a fully supported gaming system, I might use only that), but I still have the ability to see positive sides with new software. The article I posted shows some of the benifits you get from upgrading from windows 7 to windows 8.

Its not a matter of perspective, those benifits are there, every benifit listed in that article.

Steam, Origin, Blizzard and others are all promoting their own closed system, where they get percentage of each game they sell. That we now have a MS app store with a new OS that also is build for use on mobile systems shouldn't come as a shock to anyone.

Windows 8 is still a system where you can have several app stores. There is nothing I cannot do on Windows 8 that I couldn't do on Windows 7. Infact, I have more options with windows 8 then what I ever had with windows 7.

The start menu in windows 7 sucks bigtime and have always sucked bigtime. The tree structure is horrible to navigate, much of what is installed, gets installed after the manufacturers name and not the product name. So, if I install Dirt 2, I have to navigate through programs -> codemasters -> dirt 2. That sucks so much, that I had a lot of programs pinned on top of the start menu, just for quicker access instead of the painfull tree navigation. Some, I stuck on the taskbar for quicker access.

With windows 8, I can still have the grouping (under all apps) by name, but I have a much larger place to pin apps to for a quick winkey access. Since I have several screens, windows 8 have natively given me more realestate when it comes to pinning items on taskbar.

Its all OK for me that some misses the old start menu. I'm not the one to post in all threads telling them how much I disagree. I have problems though understanding what they really liked with the old tree navigation style menu of win 7 though.
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I'd have to say that you suck at installing software....especially the part where you can choose the directory and folder names..... :p

Just installed Batman Arkham city and the folder path is c:\games\batman arkham city\ The folder on the start menu is all programs->games-Batman Arkham City and there is a shorcut the the executable......it's called chosing a custom install...
 
B00nie said:
Of course I read it. The thinking behind the article was very very narrow and optimistic. Money rules the hardware ecosystem, ideology such as depicted in the article will never prosper.
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It's not worth arguing with you, I get the feeling you simply joined up specifically to bash on Windows 8 and Microsoft, and nothing anyone says will waver you from your fantasy land. It's like arguing with conspiracy theorists.
 
YeuEmMaiMai said:
I'd have to say that you suck at installing software....especially the part where you can choose the directory and folder names..... :p

Just installed Batman Arkham city and the folder path is c:\games\batman arkham city\ The folder on the start menu is all programs->games-Batman Arkham City and there is a shorcut the the executable......it's called chosing a custom install...
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Did you give that directory appropriate permissions during install? You know, deny user write, allow user read, allow Admin read/write? Do you think everyone should do that every time they install for a bunch of custom directories? Do you think people have no need of the permissions in place on the default program files directory? Inquiring minds want to know. Also some apps don't respond well not being in their default directory, and you never know which ones until it breaks, so I generally would avoid that personally, got enough things keeping me busy.
 
devil22 said:
Did you give that directory appropriate permissions during install? You know, deny user write, allow user read, allow Admin read/write? Do you think everyone should do that every time they install for a bunch of custom directories? Do you think people have no need of the permissions in place on the default program files directory? Inquiring minds want to know. Also some apps don't respond well not being in their default directory, and you never know which ones until it breaks, so I generally would avoid that personally, got enough things keeping me busy.
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Why on earth would you deny user write permissions to a game folder? LOL!
 
B00nie said:
Why on earth would you deny user write permissions to a game folder? LOL!
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Same reason you deny to any program folder. One would be to keep other users from being able to purposefully or accidently tamper with the files. Another, to keep malware from a browser/download that's not sandboxed from being able to corrupt it. Just because your particular desires and needs don't encompass that, doesn't mean others' don't, especially given the context of that 'tip' is to tell others they should do it, without knowing their situation. There's probably other reasons, try looking up why \program files\ is not user-writeable, also this is not just for games that was just the example.
 
devil22 said:
Same reason you deny to any program folder. One would be to keep other users from being able to purposefully or accidently tamper with the files. Another, to keep malware from a browser/download that's not sandboxed from being able to corrupt it. Just because your particular desires and needs don't encompass that, doesn't mean others' don't, especially given the context of that 'tip' is to tell others they should do it, without knowing their situation. There's probably other reasons, try looking up why \program files\ is not user-writeable, also this is not just for games that was just the example.
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So let me get this right: You're going to deny write permissions to the game folder where the game is going to want to write ini changes, files, databases etc? Are you going to run your games as administrator then or what? :)

Or are you now referring to the root folder 'games'? If so, what imaginable benefit would you get from having admin only access to the root and yet have to open access to the subfolders? :D

What other users do you think will be on your desktop tampering with your games? And why do you think a malware would care for a second if user level access has been taken away since infection usually requires privilege escalation in the first place? Once you've been pwned you're pwned and folder permissions are a joke at that stage.
 
B00nie said:
So let me get this right: You're going to deny write permissions to the game folder where the game is going to want to write ini changes, files, databases etc? Are you going to run your games as administrator then or what? :)

Or are you now referring to the root folder 'games'? If so, what imaginable benefit would you get from having admin only access to the root and yet have to open access to the subfolders? :D

What other users do you think will be on your desktop tampering with your games? And why do you think a malware would care for a second if user level access has been taken away since infection usually requires privilege escalation in the first place? Once you've been pwned you're pwned and folder permissions are a joke at that stage.
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First of all, for the second time, that game is an example, how does it help to install only one thing or one type or thing to custom directories. Second, it is not about who is going to tamper with my games on my desktop, because nobody else uses my computer, it's about everybody and who uses their computers. Hint, if you're a dad or a mom, you don't want to install programs to user write-able directories, then let your kid play on your computer (ostensibly to learn), for *example*. Third, programs that install by default to "\program files" do not store settings in .ini's in their program directory, because they aren't allowed to by default permissions. Fourthly, an infection does not require admin, probably not even usually (what is usually anyway, >50%? Then do you have a source that says that >50% of malware does so? Hardly makes a difference when 49% will clean your clock.) Cliff notes: This is not a universal solution, regardless of whether you care about just games, on just your system.
 
devil22 said:
First of all, for the second time, that game is an example, how does it help to install only one thing or one type or thing to custom directories.
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It was you who brought it up on this example though. Now you fail to find any reasoning behind your text when you think about it more. In reality the user who uses the app will need modify permissions - those permissions can be denied at will from a childs profile if necessary. You can not globally deny user write on perhaps 90% of application folders without crutches such as UAC.

Second, it is not about who is going to tamper with my games on my desktop, because nobody else uses my computer, it's about everybody and who uses their computers. Hint, if you're a dad or a mom, you don't want to install programs to user write-able directories, then let your kid play on your computer (ostensibly to learn), for *example*.
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So you have no concept on having user profiles and *user* permissions? I'm sorry but it really sounds like you're talking about stuff you have no idea about here.

Third, programs that install by default to "\program files" do not store settings in .ini's in their program directory, because they aren't allowed to by default permissions.
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Oh yes, most legacy apps will do just that. UAC will just virtualize everything to the user profile creating a virtual (pun intended) nightmare for any tech support (break app updates doing that in many cases but that's another rant) :)

Fourthly, an infection does not require admin, probably not even usually (what is usually anyway, >50%? Then do you have a source that says that >50% of malware does so? Hardly makes a difference when 49% will clean your clock.) Cliff notes: This is not a universal solution, regardless of whether you care about just games, on just your system.
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If an infection doesn't require admin privileges then what use is it to play with permissions in the first place? Are you saying it's ok that your infected machine deletes your profile data, sends your private information and spams your friends with e-mail full of porn attachments picked from your *ahem* personal folders on your computer just because the damage is restricted to your user account and not, say, the unused guest account too? :)

If you get pwned on user level, protecting the system level (or program files pfft) is futile at that point. The only scenario where restricting things to user land could be beneficial is multiuser machines (which PCs very rarely are in reality especially in business).
 
This is not a specific example, the issue started because someone said they install things and they end up in folders that are painful to navigate, because they are embedded, he gave an example of dirt 2, but this applies to any app. You say the permissions to write can be denied to other users, but that is more painful than the original problem it solved, when Windows 8 provides a better solution of just letting you have 2 click access to the main game without obfuscated and multilevel directory names, which at times has annoyed me as well. And you of course jump to your definitive conclusion mode that I have no idea about profiles and user permissions, but if you make a directory in c:\ called games, or apps, or whatever, it will be by default writeable for ALL users (specifically the "Authenticad users" security principal.) Now of course you can change the permissions, but that is obviously not a less painful process than just having the game's main icon on your start screen. I haven't seen many apps store .ini's in years, but of course I don't use the same apps as you or your users. Even in my virtualization folder, and in the virtualized column in task manager, almost nothing shows up, for years now. Usually it is just apps that aren't stored in "\program files" any way, because they are portable apps I keep in another directory, that windows thinks need file virtualization for whatever reason.

The use of setting your apps to non-user writeable permissions is to keep them from getting corrupted, or retaining a user mode infection. No I did not say it's OK to let your machine get infected, not in any way, don't even have a clue why you would think I did, but containing the damage is very important to a lot of people in varying situations that are not just lone gamers like you seem to imagine everyone is. And that last sentence is kind of my point, there are situations where this does not work to make things less painful, that's all I'm saying. Really you are turning this into way too much because you feel if we discuss this for the next 10 pages that I will make some minor technical mistake you beat me over the head with, the issue is plain and obvious, it is not a universal solution to install apps to non-default directories, if the goal is to be as simple or simpler than Windows 8 makes it. Again, you may not have security concerns with that scenario, others do. You can do what you want with your system, run as Admin and taskkill your firewall process for all I care, but it wouldn't be a good solution for the general population.
 
YeuEmMaiMai said:
I'd have to say that you suck at installing software....especially the part where you can choose the directory and folder names..... :p

Just installed Batman Arkham city and the folder path is c:\games\batman arkham city\ The folder on the start menu is all programs->games-Batman Arkham City and there is a shorcut the the executable......it's called chosing a custom install...
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Not really. I'm speaking of the default, not custom installing. Even by custom installing directories, you still have that horrible tree structure. Each folder have several icons and in most cases, I only need the launch icon. Doing a custom install, still means I have to move the launch icon and navigate the awful tree structure, so a custom install only means more work.

This is why I need to move the launch icon and pin it to the start menu. For games, I had my own folder pinned on the start menu containing only game launch icons.

Win 8 is so much better in this regard. Folders can be dragged into the explorer icon on the task bar, which is ready and accesable with a right click. Icons that I normally would have pinned to the task bar, can quickly be brought up with the windows key and I now get a lot of surface.

If I want to access other files created by the installer, I have the all apps option or a simple ctrl+f for quick search.

The Win 7 start menu is primitive in comparison. My largest complaint with the Win 8 start menu, is that its not as customizable as I would wish, but I assume thats a work in progress for M$. After getting used to the new start menu, I prefer it.
 
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Virtually everyone loves Windows 8.

It's only a small selection of miffed teens who think they're enthusiasts which bleat about such nonsense.

Rest assured all us adults are having a great time playing with the new UI ;)
 
THOMO said:
Virtually everyone loves Windows 8.

It's only a small selection of miffed teens who think they're enthusiasts which bleat about such nonsense.

Rest assured all us adults are having a great time playing with the new UI ;)
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I think most people, even those that complain about win 8 like it.

The majority of complaints is either about the start menu (which is a matter of preferences, even though I personally thinks the old win 7 tree structure menu always have been awful)

or

its about being able to run apps on Win 8. Which basically is an option, not a requirement. I only use metro as a launch menu and search menu, but its nice to have an option to use metro apps on my desktop if I get a Win 8 mobile or laptop later.

The article I linked in the OP, shows indisputable upgrades under the hood for Windows 8 vs. Windows 7. Nobody has complained or disputed those advantages, only that they were positive about Windows 8, which some obviously didn't like. ;P

Steam is my preferred source for games, but I still find it funny that some complain that M$ would take a money cut from developers for sales through their app store. Valve takes 30% from developers for games sold on Steam. EA wanted their share and started Origin, which I find less polished then Steam. EA also removed a lot of their titles from Steam as result.

Still, its a funny how some rage over the fact that M$ also wants their share for game sales through an app store, pointing how bad this is for Steam...
 
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Tamlin_WSGF said:
I think most people, even those that complain about win 8 like it.

The majority of complaints is either about the start menu (which is a matter of preferences, even though I personally thinks the old win 7 tree structure menu always have been awful)

or

its about being able to run apps on Win 8. Which basically is an option, not a requirement. I only use metro as a launch menu and search menu, but its nice to have an option to use metro apps on my desktop if I get a Win 8 mobile or laptop later.

The article I linked in the OP, shows indisputable upgrades under the hood for Windows 8 vs. Windows 7. Nobody has complained or disputed those advantages, only that they were positive about Windows 8, which some obviously didn't like. ;P

Steam is my preferred source for games, but I still find it funny that some complain that M$ would take a money cut from developers for sales through their app store. Valve takes 30% from developers for games sold on Steam. EA wanted their share and started Origin, which I find less polished then Steam. EA also removed a lot of their titles from Steam as result.

Still, its a funny how some rage over the fact that M$ also wants their share for game sales through an app store, pointing how bad this is for Steam...
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Yet Valve and other distributors have bashed Win8 like no tomorrow even to the extent that Newell started a linux migration.

I couldn't care less if Steam takes 30% cut when I can get 80% discount deals on it that I can't find on any retailer - and the system works. On MS app store it's going to be a different story alltogether. For some reason the same developers who are happy to use Steam are refusing to even consider the app store :)
 
B00nie said:
Yet Valve and other distributors have bashed Win8 like no tomorrow even to the extent that Newell started a linux migration.

I couldn't care less if Steam takes 30% cut when I can get 80% discount deals on it that I can't find on any retailer - and the system works. On MS app store it's going to be a different story alltogether. For some reason the same developers who are happy to use Steam are refusing to even consider the app store :)
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Of course they have. Steam is Valves bread and butter. I love the fact that Win 8 pushed Steam to support Linux, since I am a big fan of Ubuntu (and also Unity, since I never liked a tree structured start menu). Steam moving to Linux is one of the best things that's happened this year, since gaming is the primary reason I haven't moved to Ubuntu fully already.

You think MS app store is going to be a different story, but I can tell you its going to be the same story: Steam sells games, Steam takes a cut of the sales from the developers. M$ sells games, M$ is going to take a cut of the sales from the developers.

All the electronic retailers have sales and deals, including M$'s Games for Windows. Did you think Steam was exclusive on that?
 
Tamlin_WSGF said:
Of course they have. Steam is Valves bread and butter. I love the fact that Win 8 pushed Steam to support Linux, since I am a big fan of Ubuntu (and also Unity, since I never liked a tree structured start menu). Steam moving to Linux is one of the best things that's happened this year, since gaming is the primary reason I haven't moved to Ubuntu fully already.

You think MS app store is going to be a different story, but I can tell you its going to be the same story: Steam sells games, Steam takes a cut of the sales from the developers. M$ sells games, M$ is going to take a cut of the sales from the developers.

All the electronic retailers have sales and deals, including M$'s Games for Windows. Did you think Steam was exclusive on that?
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I have serious issues to believe MS is going to have 'weekend deals' like Steam. When was the last time you saw Office or Windows for 80% off? Never. Nah, not gonna happen.
 
B00nie said:
I have serious issues to believe MS is going to have 'weekend deals' like Steam. When was the last time you saw Office or Windows for 80% off? Never. Nah, not gonna happen.
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Though I prefer Steam, I've bought several games on sale through games for windows. Sometimes ordinary titles are cheaper through windows marketplace too.

Windows 8 doesn't remove any option to use Origin, Blizzard, Steam or any other place to buy the games, so its not an issue really.

Seems you are making issues that are not there. Why? Is windows 8 so great that you have to invent issues?

What Valve most likely fears, is that M$ should create a better solution for gamers through Metro. Say following:

They offer a better interface for your game collection.
They offer Smart Glass for the games you buy and run on windows 8, showing maps and other features on your portable devices. Which they offer already on Xbox games today.

They offer portability for your games throughout your windows 8 accounts, so if you have windows 8 apps and games, you buy once and can use them accross your windows devices. Much like is offered on Apples app store with their "buy once" feature.

Microsoft can add features which makes their game store more attractive for consumers. Thats something Valve should fear. I doubt that M$ would ever block Steam, Origin and others from doing what they already do today on Windows 8. People would still be able to play their Steam games on Windows 8 in the future. M$ might get more of Gabe's cake if they make a better solution then Steam though.
 
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Tamlin_WSGF said:
Though I prefer Steam, I've bought several games on sale through games for windows. Sometimes ordinary titles are cheaper through windows marketplace too.

Windows 8 doesn't remove any option to use Origin, Blizzard, Steam or any other place to buy the games, so its not an issue really.

Seems you are making issues that are not there. Why? Is windows 8 so great that you have to invent issues?
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Quite the contrary. The distributors are the ones making the issues and for a very good reason. You see they can see the big picture. Win8, code signing, app market... they're all baby steps into a locked down windows ecosystem where apps like steam will work after jailbreaking the secure booted OS :)

It's heading there folks, and as MS has predicted the consumers are too ignorant to realize it before its too late. Doesn't matter to me. I'm as happy as you IF linux will gain foothold as a gaming platform. Unfortunately Steam and 1 source engine gameplatform makes not.
 
B00nie said:
Quite the contrary. The distributors are the ones making the issues and for a very good reason. You see they can see the big picture. Win8, code signing, app market... they're all baby steps into a locked down windows ecosystem where apps like steam will work after jailbreaking the secure booted OS :)

It's heading there folks, and as MS has predicted the consumers are too ignorant to realize it before its too late. Doesn't matter to me. I'm as happy as you IF linux will gain foothold as a gaming platform. Unfortunately Steam and 1 source engine gameplatform makes not.
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You are forgetting the most basic thing: M$ is not going to close Steam on Windows 8, they are not going to close Origin on Windows 8, they are not going to close Blizzard on Windows 8 and as you can see, you can run Steam games on Windows 8 just as you can with Windows 7. Windows 8 is giving you more options when it comes to buying games, not less. Thats what Valve and the others fear. M$ creating a better alternative, not that they are going to close Steam as we see it today.

Its good that you find Windows 8 so great you have to invent issues that are not there to make a point. :p
 
Tamlin_WSGF said:
You are forgetting the most basic thing: M$ is not going to close Steam on Windows 8, they are not going to close Origin on Windows 8, they are not going to close Blizzard on Windows 8 and as you can see, you can run Steam games on Windows 8 just as you can with Windows 7. Windows 8 is giving you more options when it comes to buying games, not less. Thats what Valve and the others fear. M$ creating a better alternative, not that they are going to close Steam as we see it today.

Its good that you find Windows 8 so great you have to invent issues that are not there to make a point. :p
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Are you blind or what? Haven't you read any of the articles released on why the distributors are bashing W8? They're not disabled, yet. Emphasis on the yet part.

MS is probing the ice to see if it can pull off making windows an iOS like closed platform. The distributors are totally panicing over it because it will mean the end to their business model. They seem to take it seriously enough, even if you won't!
 
B00nie said:
Are you blind or what? Haven't you read any of the articles released on why the distributors are bashing W8? They're not disabled, yet. Emphasis on the yet part.

MS is probing the ice to see if it can pull off making windows an iOS like closed platform. The distributors are totally panicing over it because it will mean the end to their business model. They seem to take it seriously enough, even if you won't!
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I've a lot of the articles. They are bitching about their access to M$'s store, not that M$ is going to close Steam, Origin, Blizzard etc and block them from Windows 8. Not even Macs OSX have closed off Steam from their systems.

Steam and other providers will still have access to Win 8 desktop, just as they had to Win 7 desktop. Its Metro thats providing M$ with their own closed solution, just as Steam provides Valve with their own closed solution.

Its good that you find Windows 8 so great you have to invent issues that are not there to make a point. :p
 
Tamlin_WSGF said:
I've a lot of the articles. They are bitching about their access to M$'s store, not that M$ is going to close Steam, Origin, Blizzard etc and block them from Windows 8. Not even Macs OSX have closed off Steam from their systems.

Steam and other providers will still have access to Win 8 desktop, just as they had to Win 7 desktop. Its Metro thats providing M$ with their own closed solution, just as Steam provides Valve with their own closed solution.

Its good that you find Windows 8 so great you have to invent issues that are not there to make a point. :p
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Another odd thing is that some people have frequently in the past claimed that "Windows sucks" because there is no safe distribution of apps like Linux repositories and Apple's app store, and these made those platforms better because of security for noobs. Ah well, some things never change do they?
 
Tamlin_WSGF said:
I've a lot of the articles. They are bitching about their access to M$'s store, not that M$ is going to close Steam, Origin, Blizzard etc and block them from Windows 8. Not even Macs OSX have closed off Steam from their systems.

Steam and other providers will still have access to Win 8 desktop, just as they had to Win 7 desktop. Its Metro thats providing M$ with their own closed solution, just as Steam provides Valve with their own closed solution.

Its good that you find Windows 8 so great you have to invent issues that are not there to make a point. :p
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Oh right, that must be the reason why one dist. moves to linux and the other makes statements like 'prefer not to sell if it means staying out of W8' :)

It's good that you find your rose colored MS glasses so thick that you must invent totally bogus anecdotes like that. No wait. It's not good.
 
B00nie said:
Oh right, that must be the reason why one dist. moves to linux and the other makes statements like 'prefer not to sell if it means staying out of W8' :)

It's good that you find your rose colored MS glasses so thick that you must invent totally bogus anecdotes like that. No wait. It's not good.
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Because, Gabe Newell is the unassailable authority on all. Couldn't be an emotional reaction designed to attract attention.. /s your desperation to justify your hatred of Windows 8 is good. No wait. It's not good.
 
B00nie said:
Oh right, that must be the reason why one dist. moves to linux and the other makes statements like 'prefer not to sell if it means staying out of W8' :)

It's good that you find your rose colored MS glasses so thick that you must invent totally bogus anecdotes like that. No wait. It's not good.
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Windows 8 had nothing to do with Valve doing Steam for Linux, they want to build a console. Even if there is a Steam client for Linux, how many games will be there? Nothing compared to Windows, there's just not enough Linux machines.

Now a dedicated console might build some interest from game developers, but still an uphill for Steam with so many consoles in the market. But sure Windows 8 has another app distribution model, and cry doom about Microsoft closing down other app distribution methods on Windows 8, not going to happen, there's really nothing in it for Microsoft except a lot of law suits. Indeed the point of Windows 8 is to have it all, a tablet model and desktop model in one OS.

Gabe just doesn't want more competition.
 
THOMO said:
Rest assured all us adults are having a great time playing with the new UI ;)
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If there's one thing Windows 8 proponents excel at, it's condescension.

I've not yet seen them excel at anything else in particular.
 
B00nie said:
Oh right, that must be the reason why one dist. moves to linux and the other makes statements like 'prefer not to sell if it means staying out of W8' :)

It's good that you find your rose colored MS glasses so thick that you must invent totally bogus anecdotes like that. No wait. It's not good.
Click to expand...

Its no rose colored glasses. On the contrary. The reason why Gabe and Valve complain, is all about the money. Thats the same reason why M$ have their own store and thats the reason why game developers doesn't make all their games open source. Even the sales are there to make $$$. They don't have sales for charity.

Steam is not moving to Linux. They are opening for distribution on Linux in addition to Windows 7 and windows 8 desktop.

You must be pretty paranoid if you believe that M$ is going to block Steam from Windows 8 desktop. As heatlesssun pointed out, all M$ would gain in such a move, would be loads of lawsuits. There is no reason for M$ to do that.

What Steam fears, is the competition M$ can bring with their own store.

Consumers would still be able to buy their games off Steam, but they might get a better, more streamlined and can even get a more feature rich game store if they support the smart glass feature through their games.

Windows 8 won't bring less options to buy games, but more. Whether or not Windows 9 would be more closed, depends on the market. But, complaining about windows 8, because windows 9 might be more closed, would be stupid.

Windows 8 might block Steam if hell freezes over and all lawyers die from frost, not before. Until then, stop talking as if M$ have blocked Steam already. It ain't going to happen on Windows 8.

Its good that you find Windows 8 so great you have to invent issues that are not there to make a point. :p
 
wonderfield said:
If there's one thing Windows 8 proponents excel at, it's condescension.

I've not yet seen them excel at anything else in particular.
Click to expand...

And Windows 8 opponents calling the new UI only for kids and n00bs and not for productive , experienced adult Windows users isn't condescension? LOL!;)
 
B00nie said:
It's interesting how nobody even mentions all the horribly bad things about Win8 and I'm not talking about the UI now.

App store is a slap in the face to many content distributors such as Valve and EA. Win8 also introduces a whole new level of built in spyware, MS holds the right to monitor basically everything you have on the computer and even choose for you if you can run certain programs. MS can remove programs from your computer at will if it sees it necessary. Win8 introduces 'secure boot' which is nothing but an attempt to further lock down the hardware and OS from end users and restrict people from using open source alternatives.

With Win8 users have less control of their computer than ever before - and if this trend gets supported MS is going to lock down the whole OS so tight it's going to be nothing more than a gaming console with paid office (free versions will be banned due to no code signging) and a bunch of MS approved apps that have 30% inflated prices due to MS tax.
Click to expand...

Bullshit, please go learn how to use computers and then come back when you have. :rolleyes: Facts are facts and yours are not.
 
Tamlin_WSGF said:
I think most people, even those that complain about win 8 like it.

The majority of complaints is either about the start menu (which is a matter of preferences, even though I personally thinks the old win 7 tree structure menu always have been awful)

or

its about being able to run apps on Win 8. Which basically is an option, not a requirement. I only use metro as a launch menu and search menu, but its nice to have an option to use metro apps on my desktop if I get a Win 8 mobile or laptop later.
Click to expand...

I have to agree. They like Win8, but the new Modern UI is it's crutch. Those that go with Start8 or ClassicStart or StartIsBack, etc., seem to really like it again. I've gotten to the point to where I can use the start screen faster than the Start menu. Doesn't take long, but it is a change that you have to get used to.
 
ManofGod said:
Bullshit, please go learn how to use computers and then come back when you have. :rolleyes: Facts are facts and yours are not.
Click to expand...

Oh, after such a remark I must surrender my case immediately. I completely didn't think about the case according to your witty remarks. No wait, you didn't say anything yet!

How about providing facts yourself and counterarguing instead of a sloppy ad hominem.
 
Tamlin_WSGF said:
Its no rose colored glasses. On the contrary. The reason why Gabe and Valve complain, is all about the money. Thats the same reason why M$ have their own store and thats the reason why game developers doesn't make all their games open source. Even the sales are there to make $$$. They don't have sales for charity.

Steam is not moving to Linux. They are opening for distribution on Linux in addition to Windows 7 and windows 8 desktop.

You must be pretty paranoid if you believe that M$ is going to block Steam from Windows 8 desktop. As heatlesssun pointed out, all M$ would gain in such a move, would be loads of lawsuits. There is no reason for M$ to do that.

What Steam fears, is the competition M$ can bring with their own store.

Consumers would still be able to buy their games off Steam, but they might get a better, more streamlined and can even get a more feature rich game store if they support the smart glass feature through their games.

Windows 8 won't bring less options to buy games, but more. Whether or not Windows 9 would be more closed, depends on the market. But, complaining about windows 8, because windows 9 might be more closed, would be stupid.

Windows 8 might block Steam if hell freezes over and all lawyers die from frost, not before. Until then, stop talking as if M$ have blocked Steam already. It ain't going to happen on Windows 8.

Its good that you find Windows 8 so great you have to invent issues that are not there to make a point. :p
Click to expand...

Hahaha consumers like you are exactly the reason why the windows platform is going to be ruined. MS has seen Apples success and they're playing catch up. Very soon everything you do will be tightly controlled - and for many consumers that might actually be a good thing. But for anyone who pictures their computer as 'theirs' and want to do whatever they want with it, the future looks darker.

The fact that you seem completely oblivious to it doesn't surprise me. You're just a typical fanboi who bends over eagerly, waiting for the surprise.
 
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