A Nice Long and Hard Post

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Mar 5, 2008
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43
Hey Folks,

Just to start off, a bit about myself. I currently work at X store at which I'm working with computer components every minute. I am also studying network security so the need to go into details about what x and y components do will be probably be unnecessary but explaining as to why x has z advantage over y would be really helpful. The computer I'm putting together for myself will need to run Warhammer Online at it's finest as well as any other game I throw at it. I have not begun to get the components for it just yet, but have built the PC on paper. I am really excited to build my PC as this is the first time in 8 years I've put one together. Being a college student and having to support myself while living with my girlfriend has been a bit of a challenge to keep money in my pocket. My budget is about $1500CAN. That being said, let's begin :)

I want to see this computer breathe when I turn it on. :p If you want to skip the second half of my post and go right to the point. I want a future proof computer for the next year or two before the new socket becomes the norm as well as having the best-bang-for-my-buck components.

In all seriousness. Would it be better to buy all my components at once or in increments? My main issue currently is, having memories of Oblivion and UT3 and a few other games before my motherboard when kaput, so I'm a bit anxious to splurge on my new rig. The problem is, I'm on the fence on what's worth waiting for.

Motherboards. What would you guys recommend? I'm looking at the EVGA nforce 780i vA1 (The one with 2-Way SLi) I don't really see a need for 3-Way SLI at this moment in time. I may or may not pop in two cards--it all depends on which GPU I choose.

CPU. As Quad vs. C2D has a nearly an unnoticeable difference in terms of FPS in games, I'm wondering if it's even worth to pick up a quad core considering Intel's new socket coming up in the next several months to a year. Would it be a better idea to go with an C2D E8500 or a Q6600? I probably won't be OCing seeing as I don't have the money to replace components.

RAM. I will most likely pick up a 64-Bit version of Vista so I'm considering 4GB of RAM. Any brand in particular that you guys would recommend?

GPU. This is where it gets sort of messy. Doesn't matter whether it's Nvidia or ATI, I just want to avoid the craptastic 3rd party manufacturers. My only concern is if it's ATI then I would be looking at a cross-fire (or both) ready motherboard rather than the one I'm considering. I know the scoop on the 200 series from nVidia so it's nothing new :p Chances are the 280 will be going for about $499USD so it's a bit out of my price range. That being said, I really do need something that will be able to handle current games and the ones coming out in the next 5 months to be running on the highest settings and no frame issues. I can't stand buying a new computer and having to turn down settings on games--it just makes me feel like I've wasted my money.

Anyways, if you guys could give me any advice as to what I should be looking for and whether or not it matters for certain components to be waited on before purchasing then I would really appreciate it.

These are all the components I've looked at for my new rig so far:

EVGA nforce 780i SLI Motherboard
Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 Processor (OEM)
XFX GeForce 8800 GT
Corsair XMS2 DHX 4096MB Dual Channel PC6400 DDR2 800MHz Memory
Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 320GB Hard Drive
LG L226WTY-BF 22" Widescreen LCD Monitor
Logitech VX Revolution Cordless Laser Notebook Mouse

Cheers,
Maplewalnut
 
Motherboards. What would you guys recommend? I'm looking at the EVGA nforce 780i vA1 (The one with 2-Way SLi) I don't really see a need for 3-Way SLI at this moment in time. I may or may not pop in two cards--it all depends on which GPU I choose.

Since you don't need 3-way SLI, then I suggest the eVGA 750i FTW motherboard. It gets great reviews and is easy to overclock, so you don't have to worry about frying anything :) For a CrossFire board, the Gigabyte GA-EX38-DS4 is good.

... I'm wondering if it's even worth to pick up a quad core considering Intel's new socket coming up in the next several months to a year. Would it be a better idea to go with an C2D E8500 or a Q6600? I probably won't be OCing seeing as I don't have the money to replace components.

If you plan on using this computer for more than two years, then I suggest a quad-core. One of the reviews for the eVGA 750i FTW had a Q6600 overclocked up to 3.6GHz with 10 seconds worth of BIOS adjustments.

RAM. I will most likely pick up a 64-Bit version of Vista so I'm considering 4GB of RAM. Any brand in particular that you guys would recommend?

G.Skill 800MHz will get a Q6600 overclocked to 3.6GHz.

GPU. This is where it gets sort of messy. Doesn't matter whether it's Nvidia or ATI, I just want to avoid the craptastic 3rd party manufacturers.

Best manufacturers for nVidia are BFG Tech, eVGA or XFX. Best manufacturers for ATI, I'm not sure, although I know HIS is good, and I also like VisionTek.

Anyway, we have to wait until the new video cards are released in two weeks to get actual benchmarks, to be able to make recommendations.

Anyways, if you guys could give me any advice as to what I should be looking for and whether or not it matters for certain components to be waited on before purchasing then I would really appreciate it.

Can you wait two weeks for the new video cards to be released and reviewed? It's tough recommending a definite motherboard if we don't know if you'll need CrossFire.

These are all the components I've looked at for my new rig so far:

* XFX GeForce 8800 GT
Wait for the new cards if you can. If not, then look at the 9600 GT, an 8800 GT 512MB with a non-reference cooler, or an 8800 GTS 512MB. If you buy from eVGA or BFG Tech, you can use their Step-Up programs to only pay the difference in price for one of the new video cards being released in a few weeks.

* Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 320GB Hard Drive
I suggest the new Western Digital 320GB HDD instead, since it only has one 320GB platter, and performs as fast as a Raptor. Actually, mwave has the 640GB versions on sale for only $97 right now.
 
Awesome. Thanks for the response :)

You're welcome :) You could actually start buying parts now, for the stuff that is on sale. Probably save some money in the long run, by doing that. For example, the WD 640GB for $97 is a great deal. The only thing you /really/ have to wait for is a video card, if you want to get one of the next generation ones in a few weeks. Or get an eVGA or BFG Tech card now and use their Step-Up. Of course, Step-Up won't help if you get a new ATI card, hehe.

I just realized you didn't mention a few things, like a case and power supply. Do you already have these? If not, I would recommend one of the Corsair PSUs, either the Corsair CMPSU-620HX or the Corsair CMPSU-750TX. And for the case, I really like the Antec Performance One P182. It's the case I'm getting in my new computer :) You can get some 120mm Yate Loon D12SL-12 Case Fans for low noise, to replace the Antec fans. If the Antec P182 case is over your budget, then the Coolermaster RC-590 or RC-690 are also good cases.
 
I'm with AndonSage on pretty much everything here.

There's one /very/ important question that has yet to be asked though: what size and resolution display will you be playing on?

1680x1050, 1600x1200, 1920x1200, higher?

1920x1200 and higher SLI / CrossfireX become viable options... below that, forget about multi-GPU setups. They simply do not offer much return on investment. A single card will always be fast enough, far less expensive, draw less power, and generally prove less troublesome.

SLI / CrossfireX as an upgrade path is an even poorer plan; there will almost always be a newer, faster single card solution by the time your original card starts feeling slow to you, and you can sell your current card to offset the cost of the upgrade.
 
Ah, yes. I apologize, I forgot to mention the case and fan situation. I was looking at one of the Cooler Master Centurians and picking up a thermaltake PSU (all depends on what monitor I'll be choosing--unsure if I'll be running any BDs) And the CPU heatsink/fan I was thinking maybe along the lines of the Thermaltake Orbs. I'm all up for suggestions, though. :)

For resolutions, I'm slightly unsure as to what the norm is now a days for gaming. 1920x1200 is a bit much since the monitor will be a 22" and with the money I have to spend on my rig I can't see myself running any 1080p BDs.

EDIT: What components should I avoid picking up right now? You mentioned to wait for the next line of video cards coming up, is that all?
 
There's one /very/ important question that has yet to be asked though: what size and resolution display will you be playing on? 1680x1050, 1600x1200, 1920x1200, higher?

He said he was looking at this LG L226WTY-BF 22" Widescreen LCD Monitor. It's 1680 x 1050.

Dang, I should have remembered about not needing SLI/CrossFire for that resolution :(
 
Forget the 750i FTW, then. A single card will be plenty for 1680x1050, which is generally the max for a 22", though Lenovo does offer a 1920x1200 22" LCD... only one I know of, and ~$800.

A quality P35, or, by the time you build if there is some delay, a P45 base board will be a better choice over all.
 
Ah, yes. I apologize, I forgot to mention the case and fan situation. I was looking at one of the Cooler Master Centurians and picking up a thermaltake PSU (all depends on what monitor I'll be choosing--unsure if I'll be running any BDs)

The Cooler Master Centurion 532 and 534 are on the list of recommended cases, so that's fine. The only recommended Thermaltake PSU's are the ToughPower models. I still recommend a Corsair. Whatever you do, you want to make sure you have a good power supply.

For resolutions, I'm slightly unsure as to what the norm is now a days for gaming. I understand it all depends on your hardware, but what gives you the best picture? 1920x1200 is a bit much since the monitor will be a 22" and with the money I have to spend on my rig I can't see myself running any 1080p BDs.

What resolution you game at is a matter of personal preference and what you can afford. There's certainly nothing wrong with a 22" 1680 x 1050 monitor! For that resolution, the most you really need is an 8800 GTS 512MB video card. Get an eVGA, BFG Tech, or XFX, whatever you can find on sale.

The eVGA 750i FTW is still a stable motherboard and great for overclocking, even if you don't use it for SLI. However, it runs around $200 I think. P35 boards are mostly cheaper.

Here is the list of recommended P35 motherboards:
--------------------------------
Originally Posted by Danny Bui

Gigabyte GA-EP35-DS3L Intel P35 Motherboard - $90
MSI P35 Neo2-FR Intel P35 Motherboard - $110
DFI BloodIron P35-T2RL Intel P35 Motherboard - $110
Gigabyte GA-EP35-DS3R Intel P35 Motherboard - $130
DFI LanParty DK P35-T2RS Intel P35 Motherboard - $140
Gigabyte GA-EP35-DS3P Intel P35 Motherboard - $148
Abit IP35 Pro Intel P35 Motherboard - $170
Gigabyte GA-EP35-DS4 Intel P35 Motherboard - $170

Just to help you out: If you don't need RAID, more than 4 SATA ports, check out the DS3L. If you need 5 SATA ports, 2 eSATA ports, and a second PCI-E x16 port, then get the Neo2-Fr. If you want heavy overclocking abilities and six SATA ports, check out the Blood Iron. If you like the BloodIron but want significantly better overclock stability, go for the LanParty. If you want 8 SATA ports, RAID, and legacy ports and high overclocks, than the DS3R is a good choice. If you want the DS3R but need Firewire and a second PCI-E x16 port, then go for the DS3P. If you want something that can overclock pretty damn high along with, RAID, eSATA ports and firewire connections, than the IP35 Pro. If you like the DS3P but want better cooling for overclocking, then go for the DS4.
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The Cooler Master Centurion 532 and 534 are on the list of recommended cases, so that's fine. The only recommended Thermaltake PSU's are the ToughPower models. I still recommend a Corsair. Whatever you do, you want to make sure you have a good power supply.

What resolution you game at is a matter of personal preference and what you can afford. There's certainly nothing wrong with a 22" 1680 x 1050 monitor! For that resolution, the most you really need is an 8800 GTS 512MB video card. Get an eVGA, BFG Tech, or XFX, whatever you can find on sale.

The eVGA 750i FTW is still a stable motherboard and great for overclocking, even if you don't use it for SLI. However, it runs around $200 I think. P35 boards are mostly cheaper.

Here is the list of recommended P35 motherboards:
--------------------------------
Originally Posted by Danny Bui

Gigabyte GA-EP35-DS3L Intel P35 Motherboard - $90
MSI P35 Neo2-FR Intel P35 Motherboard - $110
DFI BloodIron P35-T2RL Intel P35 Motherboard - $110
Gigabyte GA-EP35-DS3R Intel P35 Motherboard - $130
DFI LanParty DK P35-T2RS Intel P35 Motherboard - $140
Gigabyte GA-EP35-DS3P Intel P35 Motherboard - $148
Abit IP35 Pro Intel P35 Motherboard - $170
Gigabyte GA-EP35-DS4 Intel P35 Motherboard - $170

Just to help you out: If you don't need RAID, more than 4 SATA ports, check out the DS3L. If you need 5 SATA ports, 2 eSATA ports, and a second PCI-E x16 port, then get the Neo2-Fr. If you want heavy overclocking abilities and six SATA ports, check out the Blood Iron. If you like the BloodIron but want significantly better overclock stability, go for the LanParty. If you want 8 SATA ports, RAID, and legacy ports and high overclocks, than the DS3R is a good choice. If you want the DS3R but need Firewire and a second PCI-E x16 port, then go for the DS3P. If you want something that can overclock pretty damn high along with, RAID, eSATA ports and firewire connections, than the IP35 Pro. If you like the DS3P but want better cooling for overclocking, then go for the DS4.
--------------------------------

When you say the 8800 GTS 512MB will be the most I'll ever need, does that mean it's more than enough or that it meets par? :cool:

For RAID, I don't think I'll need it. The eSATA may come in handy since my External 500GB PATA enclosure is falling to pieces and the drive is almost full. Besides, I'll probably save money up and wait to pick up the Data Robotics Drobo (Cackles).

Legacy ports aren't really a necessity seeing as it's a whole new computer, and it's been a while since I've bought computer components so I don't really have much older items still lurking around--maybe a PATA drive.

I am looking for something that I can easily upgrade as well. Lot's of SATA ports are handy since I'll be probably popping in some removable drive bays for school (Linux of course).

Thanks for the help :)
 
When you say the 8800 GTS 512MB will be the most I'll ever need, does that mean it's more than enough or that it meets par? :cool:

It means that even at 1920 x 1200 it's still a great card, but at 1680 x 1050 it rocks :) Personally, I got a BFG Tech 8800 GTS OC 512MB for my 24" 1920 x 1200 monitor, although it's likely I'll be upgrading to a next generation video card after they come out.

Thanks for the tips, I'm taking it there are no benchmarks with the new P45 chipset?

I'm not aware of any P45 motherboards that are out yet. I know some were previewed in May, but I don't know the exact date they will be released. Last I read, Intel is expected to unveil the P45 Express chipset officially at Computex this week.
 
Great, thanks :)

That's what I got in store for myself now. Since I'm in Canada, I gotta order the G.Skill from NCIX. Everything else I managed to find at Tiger Direct :)--Which I can get an employee discount :cool:

EVGA nForce 750i SLI FTW Motherboard
Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 Processor
BFG GeForce 8800 GTS OC
Corsair XMS2 DHX 4096MB Dual Channel PC6400 DDR2 800MHz Memory
OR
G.SKILL F2-6400CL5D-4GBPQ PC2-6400 4GB
Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 320GB Hard Drive (What was the WD drive you mentioned?)
Sceptre x24wg-Naga 24" Widescreen LCD Monitor
Cooler Master Centurion 534 Black ATX Mid-Tower Case
Corsair TX750W 750-Watt Power Supply
 
That build is almost identical to what I think I'm getting.
I really like the 750i myself, and [H] gave it a Gold Award.
My only concern is that even at 1920x1080 [42'' HDTV] I don't think I'd see the benefit of SLI.
One thing to add, I believe eVga Mobo's are lifetime warrantied as well.

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=26456&vpn=F2-8000CL5D-4GBPQ&manufacture=G.SKILL

That's the ram I think I settled on. Decent price [$99] and I believe Q9xxx series C2Q's and perhaps the QX6850 can benefit from the 1000Mhz.

Just out of curiosity, what are you getting the 750i FTW for? I think NCIX has it for $199, and DirectCanada @ $188.

The only other comment I have is check your shipping costs for RMA's.

I believe Western Digital is the only company that has any proper method for RMA'ing to Canada.
Also I believe eVga cleaned up their methods as well.

Get NCIX to PriceMatch and get this... http://www.infonec.com/site/main.php?module=detail&id=353679

That's all for now.

Time to resurrect my thread and finish this build.
 
Is it a good idea to build now? I mean...in two weeks, the next generation video cards (GTX 280 and HD4870) will be released. Also within this month, Intel's new mainstream chipset (P45) should be available.
 
Well, chances are the GTX 280 and the HD4870 will cost roughly around $499USD. Considering I'm Canadian, It's about 50 bucks more for me. I don't really have the money to dish out for the highest and greatest things. As well as the fact that you aren't able to use DDR2 with the new intel chipset I can't see a rig like that being less than $2000 easily.
 
As well as the fact that you aren't able to use DDR2 with the new intel chipset I can't see a rig like that being less than $2000 easily.

Actually the P45 chipset does support DDR2 RAM. Though the only major difference between the P45 chipset and P35 chipset is that the P45 chipset has support for PCI-E 2.0, a more energy efficient RAID chip and slightly better support for Crossfire. Not really worth waiting for if you have to buy now. Especially since we don't know what will be the launch prices for these mobos.
 
Well, chances are the GTX 280 and the HD4870 will cost roughly around $499USD. Considering I'm Canadian, It's about 50 bucks more for me. I don't really have the money to dish out for the highest and greatest things. As well as the fact that you aren't able to use DDR2 with the new intel chipset I can't see a rig like that being less than $2000 easily.

The 9800GT will also be released.
 
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