A nice extended-atx case

C

cbh

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Sep 25, 2004
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Hi chaps,

I know that saying "I'm new here" is tantamount to wandering in with a "kick me" sign taped to one's back, especially when posting yet another "help me choose a case" thread but, er, I'm new here, and can you help me choose a new case? :D

The reason I've decided to risk incurring everyone's wrath is that I've spent ages searching forums, looking at retailers' sites, scrutinising manufacturers sites and then doing the whole thing again (and again) and have little to show for my efforts other than a headache. Where I'm coming from is someone who's decided to upgrade their ageing PIII duallie, which is currently living in a nice, big, roomy Supermicro SC830 cab; so I've finally settled on the motherboard I intend to build my new system around, which is again an EATX-sized model, in this case a Tyan S2882. Something I hadn't bothered to consider is that the power requirements might be different, and it doesn't agree with the power supply in the SC830; this is something that can't easily be changed as it's a dual-redundant supply with the motherboard-facing half apparently integrated into the cabinet. Perhaps this could be replaced, albeit expensively, but with mixed feelings I've decided to use it as an opportunity to replace Old Faithful with something smaller AND QUIETER!!

And this is where the problems start. My requirements are that the new case not only comfortably accomodates a 12x13" motherboard but also has space for a 4-slot SATA hot-swap thing (again Supermicro, sold as the Adaptec 2410SA enclosure) which takes three neighbouring 5¼" bays and is 9" long, as well as at least one other 5¼" slot for a DVD burner for backups; internal 3½" bays aren't essential at this stage but for future expansion, 4 of these would be handy. To compound my self-imposed difficulty, the case must be fairly quiet, less than 20" tall (I hate tower systems) and, whilst not necessarily over-modded from the factory, must at least incorporate a clear side-panel (my memory of sawing out a window in the Supermicro case 18 months ago, which blunted two tungsten carbide blades, took half an hour and deafened me for the following 24 hours still brings back a headache whenever I think about it. So I'm not doing that again in a hurry).

So where have my efforts got me so far? Well it looks like CoolerMaster has nothing which fits and Lian-Li only has the PC-V1200, which I can't find for sale in the UK and I'm not sure has the side-panel. In a moment of madness I opted for the Thermaltake Xaser V Damier in blue, which as far as I can tell is of fine build quality and nobody seems to have anything worrisome to say about that aspect, but the looks... well, when I'm in a good mood I think it looks fine, it's a nice departure from the boring AS400s, HPs and Mannesmann systems which are lined up in the computer centres of equally boring financial institutions which if I never see the like of again it'll be too soon... but when I'm not in a good mood it's just hideous, tacky and frankly vomit-inducing, and that's when I'm not curled up in a ball through sheer embarrassment. But maybe I'm being too picky; trying to be objective about looks, a purely subjective aspect, is fraught with error and it does accomodate the equipment I need admirably, and is apparently nicely made.

And that was enough to convince me to order it. But I still have time to see the error of my ways and return it if someone can point to something a bit classier without being completely boring that might satisfy my needs. Also bear in mind I'm in the UK, so US-only retail outlets aren't really applicable to me. If anyone can help, I'd be immensely grateful.

A word on future plans... maybe a second RAID-10 array might happen eventually, and though I concede that hot-swappability is unlikely in a reasonably small cab it'd still need the previously-mentioned 4 free 3½" slots, and if I really go nuts I might opt for water-cooling, just "because".

Chris.
 
Have you looked around for "pedistal cases"?
Addtronics, Chenbro, Supermicro, or any other major server manufacture makes them, which should all support eATx and possibly redundant power supplies.

None of them will have windows though, so you'll have to decide from there if it is worth it or not.
 
Thanks for the suggestion. I do quite like pedestal cases (in fact the SC830 is one), in a lot of ways a prefer the more cube-like shape to that of a midi, but I'm really after something a bit smaller this time around (and I'm not sure exactly what to do with the SC830; I certainly don't want to chuck it out, but it's a bit big to store indefinitely. Anyway, that's another issue entirely. :) )

Sigh. I wish I could make my mind up about the Xaser. There's nothing wrong with the case itself (the only criticisms I've seen are the lack of a motherboard tray, which I don't care for that much anyway, and the PCI-card clamps, but I'm not averse to using a screwdriver), just that the looks are definitely aimed at a "certain taste" which I'm not entirely sure about; but perhaps they aren't that bad. Even though the likes of the impossible-to-find Lian-Li PC-V1200 looks a lot classier. See what I mean? I've already changed my mind about three times in the course of one post. Maybe I should just accept it when it turns up, and if I really can't live with it I can get something else down the line, I mean a hundred quid isn't exactly the end of the world (I suggested palming it off on the missus if I didn't like it, which got me quite a dark look! Though she's been extremely diplomatic about it otherwise, saying it's not exactly to her taste but she's sure I've made a considered decision. Obviously has more faith in my choices than I do, then.)

Sorry for meandering, anyway, I'm sort of thinking out loud. Whether or not I decide to accept/keep the Xaser still remains to be seen, but either way I'm very interested in seeing more suggestions of workable alternatives.

Cheers,

Chris.
 
I'm not a fan of the Xaser either, and there is no point in settling for a case that you don't feel an entirely good feeling about.

Have you checked out Silverstone? They offer a nice selection of aluminum enclosure that accept extended ATx... well not a huge selection, but three is pretty good (especially when concidering the build quality of the three). Any of them should be a good canditate as compared with the Lian-Li and availability should be good as well.

http://www.silverstonetek.com/product-case.htm

The Temjin series cases are the ones I'm looking at, and the TJ03, TJ05, and the TJ06 all accept eATx.

I think I personally like the TJ05 the best, but I certainly wouldn't complain about owning any of them. They are nice, very well built, have plenty of space and options, and should meet your requirements.
 
I do like the look of those cases an awful lot. The TJ06 manages to still look good even though I'd expressed a dislike of tall enclosures; not sure which of the three I like the look of best, they all look really superb. The only thing for me is the lack of a window... that probably sounds like I'm being overly picky, but it's something I really want: I like to see the computer's innards! And the fact that they're made of nice-quality aluminium makes it harder to contemplate doing it myself for fear of really making a mess of it.

Of course if they (or someone else) do make a clear side-panel (nothing fussy, just a plain square window) I'll be onto it like a shot.

Whether or not I get one of these, you made an important point, which is that it really isn't worthwhile getting something I'm not entirely happy about. I do feel a bit bad about slagging off the looks of the Xaser as plenty of people no doubt think that they look great, but it's just not something that I personally can feel comfortable about, especially when I try to predict what I'll think of it in 6 months time.

I reckon that patience is probably a virtue, and I'm probably better off for the time being rigging up the motherboard and discs in some crappy old case I already have lying around so that at least I can use them, and spend more time looking for "the ideal" (if it exists at all). After all, I've only been seriously looking around for a week, which probably isn't long enough at all.

Thanks for another suggestion, but especially for making me consider things a bit more!

Chris.
 
After another day's headache-inducing searching I feel myself gravitating toward the Lian-Li PC75, as it does most of what I need, but I do still have a couple of fairly serious reservations: firstly (and probably trivially) it's tall enough to risk giving that nasty "full tower" effect (this is purely psychological, but I got to really dislike full towers after working on some particularly cheap, flimsy ugly examples filled with razor-sharp edges in the early '90s), but more importantly, it doesn't have a door to hide my raid box behind. Maybe that's also not a big deal, but I'm quite concerned that a fussy-looking beige & grey lump might seriously detract from the appearance of the cabinet.

To be honest, I still think it's a bit of a compromise as my choices seem to be very limited by my choice of motherboard (ultimately I don't believe in form over function, so I wouldn't consider getting a smaller motherboard just to get a better-looking case. But I still want it to look good!) and my insistence that it has a factory-fitted window, and the interior to go with it (which so far seems to rule out the Silverstones, which I'm really disappointed about as I love the way they look... unless anyone knows better, of course).

Anyway, I'm still trying not to act too impulsively; I suppose just because it's the only one which currently (almost) fits the bill doesn't mean I have to stop looking and rush out and get it, I suppose, which is the mistake I made with the Xaser.
 
Silverstone TJ-03.

I love mine. I'm unfortunately selling it though since I'm making the move to an SFF system.

I don't want to thread crap, but if you'd be interested in it, feel free to contact me. And, you mentioned about wanting a window, I could easily put one in for you.
 
Well if you are interested in having a window put in, there are plenty of mod companies that would do it for you.
 
insaneman37 said:
Silverstone TJ-03.

I love mine. I'm unfortunately selling it though since I'm making the move to an SFF system.

I don't want to thread crap, but if you'd be interested in it, feel free to contact me. And, you mentioned about wanting a window, I could easily put one in for you.
Click to expand...

I might've taken you up on the offer, but I suspect that the cost of getting it over here (with the additional "breaking it into small pieces" surcharge which seems compulsory with most carriers) might be as much as a new case! Great looking box, though.

I can see the attraction of SFF (I also have one) but I see a bigger attraction in having several systems. Maybe I'm just an irredeemable nerd.


UnknownSouljer said:
Well if you are interested in having a window put in, there are plenty of mod companies that would do it for you.
Click to expand...

I did wonder about that, or even if my local ironmongers might cut a nice hole in it for me; but having given it a bit of consideration, I may as well go with the spirit of the forum and buy myself a new blade and a file and do it myself. I didn't do too bad a job last time and that was with stainless steel (or whatever it is Supermicro makes cases from) so hopefully aluminium should be a bit easier. It's all very well restricting myself by my choice of motherboard, but it's looking like additionally restricting myself to only cases with a pre-installed window is just making life unnecessarily difficult.

I think that my more considered decision is to follow the advice given to a lot of people asking "what case should I get?", that one of the Silverstone cases (sorry insaneman37) looks like my best bet, although I think I'll contemplate it a bit longer this time. Now all I need to do is go through the same amount of agonising over whether to go for "natural" or "black anodised". :rolleyes:

Chris.
 
Heh, well color is important too, and it is pretty hard to not match silver or black (as they go with most any home electronics).

But cutting the Silverstone case should be much easier as it has aluminum sidepanals... this is a blessing and a curse. Easier to cut, but therefore easier to make a mistake on. But it shouldn't kill your hand this time around.
 
FYI, I've got experience installing Tyan boards into Thermaltake cases. The Damier will be really tight. I used the Damier with an S2885 (K8W) and it basically maxed out the motherboard "tray" (there's no removable tray, but i'm using this to refer to the general area). I had to remove the green mounting bracket (used for oversized PCI cards) from the front side of the case just to get the damn board in. Trust me, it may ACCEPT eATX, but it doesn't make it comfortable.

cheers,

dave
 
UnknownSouljer said:
Heh, well color is important too, and it is pretty hard to not match silver or black (as they go with most any home electronics).

But cutting the Silverstone case should be much easier as it has aluminum sidepanals... this is a blessing and a curse. Easier to cut, but therefore easier to make a mistake on. But it shouldn't kill your hand this time around.
Click to expand...

My main gripe was the noise: I think I'll do it outside next time! And thanks for reminding me of the vibrations, I don't think my hand stopped shaking for a week. My most likely mistake will probably be scratches, so I think I'll follow the advice to cover the entire thing in masking tape and not just the bits that I'm cutting.


dave_graham said:
FYI, I've got experience installing Tyan boards into Thermaltake cases. The Damier will be really tight. I used the Damier with an S2885 (K8W) and it basically maxed out the motherboard "tray" (there's no removable tray, but i'm using this to refer to the general area). I had to remove the green mounting bracket (used for oversized PCI cards) from the front side of the case just to get the damn board in. Trust me, it may ACCEPT eATX, but it doesn't make it comfortable.
Click to expand...

That's interesting to know. Whatever I may have ended up feeling about its looks, whether good or bad, wouldn't have mattered if I couldn't've shoehorned everything into it; and from what you say, it sounds like there's no way I could get both the motherboard and the hot-swap disc box to fit in it. And even if I did, there'd be no latitude for future water-cooling.

Well, thanks a lot for your comments, guys, you've been incredibly helpful. I think I know what I'm aiming for now, and whilst not definite, I've got a much better idea of what I want (and need, for that matter!)

Cheers!

Chris.
 
Well, try to help anyway I can.

Good luck with your new case purchase... hopefully I'll be getting something new to for the eATx persuassion... but my case will be much more massive... heh.
 
You can always just get a dremel and some cutting discs for it to put that window in. The dremel makes quick work out of aluminum, and its useful for all kinds of stuff besides case modding. I just recently put a blowhole on my case and I'd never cut anything with the dremel before then, only used it for sanding and polishing. It turned out better than I expected. Make sure you do it were you don't mind fine grain aluminum everywhere, and wear eye protection or you'll look like this guy -> ;)
 
The Enermax CS-800TA "Voltron" claims to support EATX board, but I have not been able to confirm this. Has anyone been able to put an eatx board in one of these
 
I think considering all your requirements the Silverstone TJ-06 would be the best bet... It's not quite as tall as a full tower (it's only 1 bay taller than a regular mid-tower and you seem to need the four or five external 5.25 bays it has), it's one of the quieter cases out there if you equip it properly, and it looks really nice.

No door or side window but that's nothing a Dremel and some spray paint (for yer rack) can't fix. :p I think LianLi makes one of their towers with a large door that covers most of the front too, not sure what other cases would fit ya better... The Temjin 06 does have like five internal 3.5 bays and a pretty innovative cooling setup tho, might wanna check out Anandtech's review of it.
 
I've given myself a couple of days to think about it, and I've decided that the TJ03 is definitely the one for me. It even has the missus' approval, so it must look good. :D Took a while for me to decide between black and silver as they both look so good, but I chose silver in the end. I did wonder about the TJ06, and I really like that grille that it has, but I want something with a door to hide the ugliness of the disc unit (they look like this:

images


which is why, although doors are quite a contentious subject, I'm so keen to hide it!) I think that the Enermax is probably out of the running as, in common with a lot of cases which support EATX, I don't think they've allowed enough space for 5¼" drives: even fairly standard CD drives can stick out the back of the cradle by a fair amount (I can't really blame them too much for this, as the case does get incredibly long if allowances are made for everything).

Regarding dremels, I did wonder about one of those, but given my "expertise" at DIY where I can't even put a shelf up straight, I'm not convinced that I need more power-tools to play with! I think I'll stick with the jigsaw. I suppose doing it myself means that at least I can use something nice and scratch resistant instead of some of the easily-disfigured materials some companies seem to use.


UnknownSouljer said:
hopefully I'll be getting something new to for the eATx persuassion... but my case will be much more massive... heh.
Click to expand...

I wonder if anyone's modded anything really big, like a VAX 8600 or something (I remember seeing a site about some guy who turned one into a drinks cabinet, although that's not quite the same). That led me to thinking, I wonder if a mini-ITX card is small enough to fit in an IBM System/370 TCM? Probably pointless, but having a PC in one of those water-cooled billets would look quite cool. I think I should stop rambling now. :)

Chris.
 
Okay, the case has arrived! In the end I chose the silver-coloured one. In some ways I prefer the black one, but that amount of black, even nice anodised aluminium, is just too much for the average room IMHO. I'll post a full review* once I've got the insides tidied up, as at the moment the state of the wiring should be a hanging offence, so it might take me a while. But my first impressions are:

Good
* Looks fantastic
* Really lightweight
* Nicely made, external finish to a very high degree and the inside isn't far behind
* Has lots of space for a fairly modest-sized case: everything fits, even my oversized stuff!
* Easy to work on

Bad
* Price: it cost me around 230 quid (about $400). Ouch.
* What seems to be a bit of a major design gaffe is that there's no provision for ventilation to the upper 5.25" bays when the door's shut. So far my front-vented disc pack (I think that the Coolermaster unit works in the same way) hasn't overheated but I think I may need to replace one of the blanking plates with a grille (or just remove it altogether) so it can draw cool air from the bottom of the case and up through the vent formed between the door and the front of the 5.25" bays. Even if it doesn't overheat (since the case is effectively a huge heat-sink, I suppose) it can't be doing the fan any favours.

Er, that's about it for now. It'll take me at least a couple of weeks to sort the wiring out, and that's probably being overly optimistic. :(



* actually, no I won't, because I'm rubbish at doing reviews, but I will post a picture or two when I tidy it up.
 
Told you it was a great case. ;)

If you have a basic system, with not too much, getting the wiring pretty clean is fairly easy. But, I suppose for you, it'll be a bit harder. Either way, I'm sure you'll be creative and figure something out. Things like behing the motherboard tray, the space above the PSU, etc.

As for your ventilation to the front of the drives issue, take a look at how the ventilation is on the bottom door for the fan. Perhaps you can get out the tools and mod the top door to have similar ventilation. (And that way, you maintain the look of the front of the case.)
 
Time for an update, I think! Of course things have taken quite a bit longer than I expected, but I'm not really disheartened as my understanding is that case-modding is one of those things that's never quite finished. :D I'm ashamed to say that in the end I wimped out of windowing the side-panel myself when I discovered that pre-made ones could be ordered from Silverstone; that said, they do quite a nice job of it. It looks like about the only "real" modding I'll be doing is creating a ventilated 5¼" blanking-plate somehow.


insaneman37 said:
Told you it was a great case. ;)
Click to expand...

It is indeed. I'm very impressed with it. For a while I was a bit unsure about whether or not I'd actually gone for the right colour, but now that I have a window with illuminated gubbins I think that silver was definitely the better choice. They really do some stunning cases, though: I've completely fallen in love with the black LC03 which is top of the list next time I build a desktop system.


If you have a basic system, with not too much, getting the wiring pretty clean is fairly easy. But, I suppose for you, it'll be a bit harder. Either way, I'm sure you'll be creative and figure something out. Things like behing the motherboard tray, the space above the PSU, etc.
Click to expand...

The "hiding the wires behind the motherboard" tip is definitely one of the best I've seen (at least for my complete newbie status) and has really worked wonders. Unfortunately I failed to get a "before" picture but I guarantee that it was pretty hideous. A couple of "half way there" pictures follow (hopefully):

teapot_lside.jpg


I know that the colour scheme might not be to everyone's taste, but I wanted the "blue everything with green CPUs" from the outset. It's a lot more effective IRL. For the pedants, you're correct in noticing that only one CPU has any memory; that's because I can't afford the 2nd CPU just yet. :) Still a bit of tidying to do, in particular that hideous SCSI-1 ribbon cable needs replacing.

teapot_rside.jpg


... and that's where all the power cables are hiding. I'm still moving things around at the moment so they're all held in place with Sellotape (mmm, heat resistance!) but I'll either use a more durable tape or get myself a glue gun once I'm more confident about how they should be routed. I also need to stick them to a separate plate as I'm not happy about them being attached to the motherboard tray.


As for your ventilation to the front of the drives issue, take a look at how the ventilation is on the bottom door for the fan. Perhaps you can get out the tools and mod the top door to have similar ventilation. (And that way, you maintain the look of the front of the case.)
Click to expand...

I've already admitted I'm a wimp, and my days of doing metalwork at school may be a LONG time ago (is it really over 20 years?! :eek: ) but I still recall my ability to inadvertendly damage things, and this "thing" is too expensive! Hence the blanking plate idea, where it can draw air from inside the case and use that, and hopefully the way the air circulates won't cause too much of an issue with the ventilation of the other components.

Well, it may be quite conservative on the "actually doing some modding" front, but I'm quite happy with the way things are progressing. More when I'm a bit closer to the finishing line!
 
I envy you and your computer case, for I am stuck with the supermicro SC801 server case.

As much as I would like to mod it, I am not spending the time to do so. The only mod I have done to it was to get the wiring of the 4 hd led lights cut and soldered to make one mb header. The plug it in, and to make it look like I have four hd working at the same time. In fact I have 5 hd's, which I shelled out more just to purchase the antec hd coolers for the five hd's.

I would have an suggestion on making the extended-atx mb fit in your sc803, without having to find another redundant powersupply to make it work. Or worse try to find a powersupply for it.

I took my redundant powersupply pulled both modules out, unscrewed the back plate for the powersupply cabinet. Take out the innards of the redundant powersupply, place one of the modules back in. I purchased an antec 430 truepower to place in the empty side where I pulled out the second power module. I snaked the power cables through the back of the power assembly cabinet, then hooked up the cables to drives and mb.

I hope you know where I am going with this, because till this when I did that, I leave one powermodule in as a dummy unit and on the other side is my antec 430w powersupply.
 
well just to make you feel better i bought my x dreamer like 3 years ago at cyberpower before i knew what modding was. now im working my a$$ off to get my MONSTER computer going. so basically im stuck with a premodded computer. it kicks but it doesnt feel right.
 
Several hours of work (spread over the last few days) and a large headache later, time for another quick update. Okay, it's nothing interesting to veteran modders, but it gives me a chance to moan!

I feel like I've been thrown in at the deep end when it comes to cable sleeving. When it works, I love the results, they look so much better. But when it doesn't... the frayed ends and non-expanding bits are doing my head in, and I really need to find a better way of heating the heat-shrink than the missus' hairdryer (when she pontificated about its heat-shield being made of asbestos she didn't help my mental state much! Turns out it's probably mica, though). And I need more cable sleeving stuff, I seem to have run out of the useful bits.

The floppy cable is a pain in the arse as, even though I have a nice long one, the motherboard designer decided to put it at the bottom left of the motherboard, probably assuming it wouldn't be used. Since I'm a compulsive installer of interesting-looking operating systems I need my floppy to be connected. Grr. Maybe I should do as I've ended up doing with my 8-bit SCSI cable [not shown yet] and roll my own.

And trying to force all the cables into the vertical reinforcing strut has given mixed results: it's a nice way of tidying them, but there's only about a 1½mm gap between its lip and the side-panel so it's 50/50 as to whether or not it's more trouble than it's worth. I could try to cut some slots in it, but since it's probably made of stainless steel I'm not terribly enthusiastic about that idea, or I could just bypass it altogether and move the ugly cabling to the side of the 5¼" bays, finding something that sticks it down a bit more successfully than electricians' tape while I'm at it. Talking of ugly cabling, I need to figure out a way of taming that unruly quad SATA bundle as well.

As you can tell, I've been having such a frustrating time of it that I'm getting well and truly fed up. So fed up, in fact, that I'm thinking of doing the missus' case as well, especially as she's forbidden me to do anything with it. :D Now all I need to do is decide what to rehouse her dual 350MHz PII in: currently it's a really rather ugly '98-vintage full-tower in all its beige glory, I think it needs to be rehoused in a Lian-Li PC65 or a Silverstone LC03. How's that for completely veering off-topic in my own thread? :)
 
When I hide cables behind bays I usually use zip ties (if there's a free hole on the bays, which there usually is unless they're all full o' drives), holds tha cables nicely and doesn't turn into gunk like electrical tape. Slim velcro ties work well too and are easier to latch/unlatch, just need a short slit with which to slip them thru.
 
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