A new NEC professional IPS? PA series

Serpico said:
I dunno, does NEC use TN panels? I'm pretty sure that even the EA series 23" display is an IPS.
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23" is IPS, many other NEC's inc. the other EA series at 22", 24" & 26" are all TN. The i suffix in the model code may be the clue when the new 27" EA is announced.

I'm guessing the PA will be: a) expensive (based on 24"-30" 90 series) b) prone to lag (3D LUT & colour correction)
 
Blazestorm said:
Considering the panels all come from relatively the same place, calling it "solid design" is pointless. Apple doesn't manufacture any of the components inside those machines, it's all done by other companies. Generic brands like Hynix for memory, Seagate for HDD's, whoever (NEC?) for displays, Foxconn for motherboards etc. etc. The same companies providing products for Dell, Sony, etc. a Seagate HDD is not going to magically work better in an Apple system than a PC... nor is the NEC display going to be any different. That was the point I was trying to make. People were trying to justify the iMac as a "good deal" because it comes with a decent display, but there are still a lot of problems associated with that. Some people even bought the iMac just for the display which is idiotic in my opinion.
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If you're talking fit & finish of the physical case, small footprint, lack of clutter, silent operation, and hardware/OS integration, there is absolutely a difference.

More importantly, no other company loads their all-in-ones with such high quality components. A Dell or HP AIO will have Intel integrated graphics and much slower CPUs. Before the last iMac refresh the Dell XPS One was both more expensive and slower than the competing iMacs, and it had a crummy MVA panel instead of an IPS. Now it isn't even a contest, a baseline $1200 iMac outclasses a baseline $1500 XPS One in every way. Display panel, hard drive storage space, CPU, GPU, it isn't even close, and this is before we get to the physical design.

It's still a 1yr warranty vs. 3yr, (Next day service, so if my 3007WFP DOES break, they send me a new one overnight, then I put my old one in the box and it goes back to them).
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A three year warranty is $170, I got mine for free from my dealer.

Not to mention glossy screens which are the worst possible thing to ever become popular with displays next to TN panels. Apple seems to love them though... I'm glad high-end displays aren't moving to glossy screens (atleast I haven't seen any). I'm pissed laptop makers are though, they don't even give you the option for a matte screen.
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A matte option would be nice, but that said if you have control over your environment then it isn't a problem. My prior 24" iMac was a dead ringer for my 2490WUXi, both with the same panel but one glossy and one matte. Sure I'd like it if it was also matte but in my case it made no difference, I have no windows or hot reflections facing my monitors. For notebooks I absolutely agree since you're using them in a variety of environments, but at least matte is an option with the 15" MBP again.
 
IanM said:
23" is IPS, many other NEC's inc. the other EA series at 22", 24" & 26" are all TN. The i suffix in the model code may be the clue when the new 27" EA is announced.
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Cool, I didn't know that.

I'm guessing the PA will be: a) expensive (based on 24"-30" 90 series) b) prone to lag (3D LUT & colour correction)
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Hopefully there is an overdrive mode to help take out whatever lag issues the other features would introduce.
 
Serpico said:
If you're talking fit & finish of the physical case, small footprint, lack of clutter, silent operation, and hardware/OS integration, there is absolutely a difference.
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I'm not denying that, but a lot of people were recommending the iMac just for the display part, and I disagree. If something dies on the display with my system, I can get the display replaced within a couple of days, even if I couldn't I can replace the display and still use my system. If the system dies I'm shit out of luck regardless, I gotta fix that.

But if anything on the all-in-one goes down, you're completely down... yea you can still use it with an external display (possibly, like you can do with laptops that have a bad display). But if you want to get that display fixed, you gotta send in the whole thing. If your display dies and you're out of warranty, there goes your entire system.

There's flaws with the whole concept, and that's why I don't like it. I'm not a fan of the all-in-one design period. I don't have a lack of desk space :p

To say it's the deal of the century is ridiculous in my mind, it is a deal for people who specifically want a good size/resolution display and a decent hardware setup attached to it... and who have about 2 grand... But if you don't care about it being all-in-one there are better options around...
 
These are professional monitors with adjustable 3D LUTs and higher QA standards (in terms of out of the box colors, panel / backlight uniformity and non-stuck pixels) than consumer targeted monitors.

That means both higher prices and more of a focus on features required by design professionals in the print and digital spaces. While low input lag may or may not happen, that is probably not a major design goal, and neither is a low price.
 
Blazestorm said:
I'm not denying that, but a lot of people were recommending the iMac just for the display part, and I disagree. If something dies on the display with my system, I can get the display replaced within a couple of days, even if I couldn't I can replace the display and still use my system. If the system dies I'm shit out of luck regardless, I gotta fix that.

But if anything on the all-in-one goes down, you're completely down... yea you can still use it with an external display (possibly, like you can do with laptops that have a bad display). But if you want to get that display fixed, you gotta send in the whole thing. If your display dies and you're out of warranty, there goes your entire system.
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That's a lot of "ifs". I know quite a few people with iMacs and this new one is my second. Knock on wood, not one of them has had the display go down. If they did, I reckon a day in service is what it would take, maybe an afternoon. This is based on the turnaround time I know about with notebooks, and the fact that this is a potential issue with the iMacs. Obviously if the screen goes down it would be a problem. At worst you can still run the computer in Target Disk Mode and get your data off; holding down T when booting into OS X turns the Mac into a Firewire hard drive. Very handy in emergencies.

There's flaws with the whole concept, and that's why I don't like it. I'm not a fan of the all-in-one design period. I don't have a lack of desk space :p
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As I've said before, its not for everyone, and I've said many times that it would be nice if Apple sold a desktop with consumer level CPUs (not $1000+ Xeons) and PCI-E expansion. I think they're great, if I could get the power of my desktop PC (which sits inside a massive Corsair 800D case) into an all-in-one I would do it in a second. The GPU is really the only thing holding that back at this point. 5800 series cards are massive, the GTX cards are massive, and I don't expect Fermi to be small either.

To say it's the deal of the century is ridiculous in my mind, it is a deal for people who specifically want a good size/resolution display and a decent hardware setup attached to it... and who have about 2 grand... But if you don't care about it being all-in-one there are better options around...
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I agree with what you're saying. It isn't the deal of the century (no idea who said this here) but it is a tremendous deal for people who want power combined with an excellent display. Most people who post on [H] and consumers in general are perfectly happy with TN, MVA, or PVA displays. I'm not one of those people, not by a longshot, which is why I bothered looking in this thread in the first place. Again, that the 27" iMacs start at $1700 is pretty cool.

Keeping things on topic, I really want to see how the NEC PA series 27" and 30" displays compare in price. The 24" iMac was only a little more expensive than the 2490WUXi, except again they come with a computer built in. If the 27" or 30" models are somewhat reasonable I'd love to pick one up as the secondary display for my iMac and the primary display for my PC (that I'll need a video card to keep up with the pixel increase is going to suck).
 
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Serpico said:
The 24" iMac was only a little more expensive than the 2490WUXi, except again they come with a computer built in.
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Not so much. Apple no longer sells the 24" iMac, but it seems to be about $1300-1500 listed on other sites. The 2490WUXi2 is about $850 form B&H. That's not "a little" more expensive, that's near twice the price.

Also the NEC comes with a number of features the iMac doesn't:

1) 12-bit Hardware LUTs. Those are, of course, the biggies. You can directly calibrate the hardware which means it works with any source, and you don't lose colour detail. That is one of the big things that makes the NEC monitors so much more expensive than others with the same panel.

2) Colorcomp. That's NEC's system to make the panel more uniform. When you kick it on, it deals with backlight uniformity issues across the display. Works great.

3) Extensive on-display controls. You can control just about any aspect of the picture on the display itself, including a top notch hardware scaler. No matter what sort of adjustment you need, the display can probably handle it internally. It can be software controlled too (with Naviset), but doesn't have to be.

4) Fully adjustable stand. Height, pivot, tilt, etc. You can adjust the display to the position most ergonomic for you, which is important for least strain using a computer. You can also easily readjust it, for example the height adjustment is counter-weighted against the monitor, so you just grab the sides and move it to the level you want and it stays there. You can thus move it as you change posture. The iMac only tilts, so if it is too high or low, you can't adjust it.

5) Inputs. Yes, I'm aware the 27" iMac has an input, the 24" doesn't. Also it is miniDP only, which many cards don't support at this point (DVI is still the most common).

6) Top quality matte finish.

Trying to sell the iMac as a good choice for a display is kind stupid. No, the iMac is a good choice if you want an iMac. It is not a good choice or a good price if you want a monitor.

Yes, NEC monitors cost a lot, because they pack high end features. The panel is only part of what makes a monitor's price. The support hardware and construction plays in to it as well. NEC's 90 series offers real pro features for those that want it. No surprise, they cost the part because of it.
 
Sycraft said:
Not so much. Apple no longer sells the 24" iMac, but it seems to be about $1300-1500 listed on other sites. The 2490WUXi2 is about $850 form B&H. That's not "a little" more expensive, that's near twice the price.
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2490wuxi2 != 2490wuxi ... the wuxi sell for about $1100 (if you can even find one). 24" iMac is going for about $1300.
 
Blazestorm said:
Considering the panels all come from relatively the same place, calling it "solid design" is pointless.
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Did you read my post? Did you note where I said: "You won't find IPS screens in an all-in-one from dell."

Yes the components are all made in the far east now, but iMac IPS screens vs TN screens in a Dell all in one is one heck of a step up in choice of those components.

On top of that they lead in fit and finish, packaging, design elegance. These are the main engineering elements in complete products these days.

Further to that Apple leads on embracing new technologies, this has been happening from at least the beginning of the Mac, where they were the first to using micro-floppy in plastic cases(everyone else was using 5&1/4 floppies), and they were also the first to abandon the floppy. They were also first to embrace USB and helped popularize it. AFAIK they were also first embracing DVI, and they also had the first 2560x1600 consumer monitor.

Leading edge packaging/fit/finish/elegance. Leading on new technology. Only a blind hater can't see Apples design/engineering leadership in the PC market.

If I wanted an All in one, I would get an iMac. But I prefer mid towers and installing upgrades. This is the only knock I have against their product. That will probably change for me in a computer or two from now as I am playing less games and finding less need to upgrade anything anymore.
 
Sycraft said:
Not so much. Apple no longer sells the 24" iMac, but it seems to be about $1300-1500 listed on other sites. The 2490WUXi2 is about $850 form B&H. That's not "a little" more expensive, that's near twice the price.
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No, but the price is still pretty fresh in everyone's heads, starting at $1500.

As its also been pointed out, the 2490WUXi2 is not the 2490WUXi, it is a "light" cheaper version of the original which is still on sale.

Also the NEC comes with a number of features the iMac doesn't:

/snip
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Yes and no. If you want a computer with a great display built in, you want an iMac. If you want a professional monitor that is highly adjustable, you will want the NEC, no question.

That said, I color matched my 2490WUXi and my old 24" iMac and they were dead ringers for each other. I could barely tell the difference, and it wasn't that far from the out-of-the-box settings for either of them (the 24" iMac came up slightly warner, while the 27" comes up a lot cooler). I should also say that reflections aren't an issue in my home office, if windows or lights were a problem then it would obviously be a different story with the glossy screen. I still stand by what I say in that the 24" iMac is an excellent value given the display that they're using.

Trying to sell the iMac as a good choice for a display is kind stupid. No, the iMac is a good choice if you want an iMac. It is not a good choice or a good price if you want a monitor.
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I never once tried to sell the iMac as something to buy as just a monitor for an external computer. I think that's a waste since there is already a whole computer built in there. I'm talking about the value of the iMacs due to the quality of the display inside them, big difference.

Yes, NEC monitors cost a lot, because they pack high end features. The panel is only part of what makes a monitor's price. The support hardware and construction plays in to it as well. NEC's 90 series offers real pro features for those that want it. No surprise, they cost the part because of it.
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I'm not arguing against the price of the NECs at all. I own one and I'd gladly buy another one. Hell, a 27" or 30" PA series model is probably in my future now that this 27" iMac has completely spoiled my 2490WUXi for me.
 
..Guys, wouldn't like to interrupt your interesting conversation, but I feel this thread is going Off Topic for some while, turning into a MAC vs PC monitor debate.
It might be more effective to keep posts just on facts related to the new NEC PA series, its features, availability etc, or this thread will eventually bloat ( as many others have) forcing people to hunt down through pages and pages for a drop of useful info, asking the same questions over and over.
Just my $0.2.
tnks
 
Anyone have an idea when these displays will come out?
Also will they all be wide gamut?
How does the 2490wuix2 compare?

I am looking for a monitor now, but I could wait..
 
It looks like these monitors are an improvement over the 90 series, but I wish there was something new going on in terms of the LCD panel itself. For example, it seems that the PA301W uses the same LG LM300WQ5 panel which is used in the LCD3090WQXi. The LM300WQ5 has been around for two and a half years already... I wish there was a new panel - say, with an LED backlight or some other imrpovements. As it is, I'm not sure the upgrade from the LCD3090WQXi is worth it unless you really need that "3D LUT"...
 
I've had 2 20WMGX2's now with the staining issue across the top of the screen and am really looking forward to this new series so I can kick the 20WMGX2 to the curb.
 
it's been rather quiet in here ;)

Can't wait till they release this new series. the 24"er looks very interesting.

Anyone found any more information or updates?
 
I don't think CES is really the venue for these, I guess they might be shown but it's a consumer electronics show. Graphics/Medical/Industry trade fairs are the more likely place to see the NEC pro displays.
 
I found this page.
http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/20100113_341989.html
Google translation: http://translate.google.com/transla...=s&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&hs=HGz&sa=G

Perhaps someone who knows Japanese could do a better translation? Or at least some of the info on the images.

Couple interesting things on there.

PA241w 24.1"
p-IPS (H-IPS)?
16ms (8ms g2g)
1000:1
360 cd/m2
NTSC of 102%
aRGB of 98.1%
Mention of a 14bit LUT and 10bit IPS. Could use some translation here. It's on one of the images.

Oh also on the top it mentions Feb 22 as a release date? That's probably for Japan though.
 
Okay that PA241W looks unforgivingly awesome. You can even type in the chromaticity and white point coordinates in the new Spectraview.

p-IPS... I wish LG would clarify on these new terms.
 
The 10bit input through the display port when combined with a display adapter that has 10 bit output capability, is quite useful for photo editing using Pro Photo mode in photoshop.
PIP is nice especially with the different profile setting for immediate comparison, but more practical in the higher density 27' and 30' models. And the USB hub is handy as well.
Lets see apart from these enhancements, how pure image quality scores against the original models.
 
There was a post today on dpreview from a NEC rep that we should expect the PA series in stores by the end of March.
 
ChickenLover said:
There was a post today on dpreview from a NEC rep that we should expect the PA series in stores by the end of March.
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Link? I did a search there + google and didn't find any release date.

As a previous, burned owner of the now infamous NEC EA231WMi, I'm curious as to how this new PA series (as well as the new HP IPS LCD's) fares in comparison.
 
I also heard March from a NEC distributor yesterday as well.

Also, the 30-inch might not be available in all countries.
 
Yikes, saw that this AM on Engadget.

A 24" for $1079? Lets see, a 24" 1920x1200 PA241W or a 27" 2560x1440 Dell U2711 for $30 LESS?

For get. I'd buy for $599 or less but nothing more than that. Should be priced to compete with the U2410...
 
shawnoen said:
For get. I'd buy for $599 or less but nothing more than that. Should be priced to compete with the U2410...
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The U2410 does not compete with the PA241W for the customers that the PA series targets. In order understand why, you should read more about what these models and their predecessors are capable of.
 
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