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A build for number crunching

C

CoW]8(0)

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jul 25, 2005
Messages
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I'm looking into a build for mostly running simulations and tests. The simulations will likely be both CPU and CUDA based.

I'm wondering when if Sandy Bridge is the right CPU or does Intel have something more suited to my needs coming in the near horizon (in 2011).

One of the key features of the build would be upgrade-ability. I would like to have the option to upgrade the CPU 2-3 years down the line. I will occasionally game, but 99% of the time I'll be running sims and tests.
 
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What do you consider the near horizon?

Intel has other options coming out in the 4th quarter that will have hex core choices
 
Oh, sorry I wasn't clear. I mean within this year 2011. Will the Socket for this Hex Core work with boards which support Sandy Bridge? I've been considering LGA 1155 socket because I've heard good reviews of the i5-2500K, but I'm worried about the socket lifetime (though I don't know how long LGA 1355 will last either).
 
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the lifetimes of intel sockets seem to be decreasing since 775. will there be parts available that fit it in 2-3 years? almost certainly. how much of an upgrade they'd be, and whether they're worth the price, is another matter. if you want heavy crunching, I'd wait and see what comes out in q4 - sandy bridge EX is due out then, and number crunching is a chunk of its target market.
 
I think there was some speculation that the new chips later this year may fit the current sockets, but no way to know for sure.
 
What kind of number crunching will you be running? If the crunching can be done mostly within the GPU, then the future viability of the socket platform might not really matter.

I just wish ATI graphics cards would work with MATLAB...
 
What are the ram requirements of your simulations?
What is your budget?
How well do your simulations use up multiple cores? can they use all the cores all the time? can they use all the cores for some of the time but only one for other parts of the time (HFSS does this)? can they only use one core period?

This information will guide what platform is most appropriate for you.

If you want to build right now you have the following choices.

1: LGA1155: supports 32GB of ram but only with 8GB unbuffered modules which are like hens teeth at the moment ( http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1603757 ). Being sandy bridge it has the fastest individual core performance of anything on the market at the moment but it only has four cores.
2: single socket LGA1366: supports 24GB of ram (may in theory support 48GB but I haven't seen any MB vendors saying so as of yet). 6-core processors available which in highly multithreaded tasks generally seem to beat the LGA1155 quads but in tasks with four or less threads will be slower than the LGA1155 quads.
3: dual socket LGA1366: supports 192GB of ram. Dual 6-core processors will provide by far the highest performance for highly multithreaded tasks but the price is very high. Again being older generation performance in tasks with four or less threads will be slower than the LGA1155 quads.

LGA1366 is highly unlikely to see any significant new processors. LGA1155 is supposed to be getting ivy bridge processors early next year and they will hopefully be compatible with existing boards. The LGA1155 ivy bridge processors will likely be a bit faster than the sandy bridge ones but are still likely to be quad core chips.

Late this year a new socket is going to be appearing called LGA2011. This socket will be used for the high end sandy bridge chips and is likely to also be used for high end ivy bridge chips at some point. There are likely to be 4,6 and 8 core chips for this platform. Exact memory support is unknown but with four channels I would expect support for at least 64GB on single socket LGA2011 and more on dual socket LGA2011.
 
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16GB of RAM would likely be enough.
Budget is around $700 (for board+RAM+CPU). But this number is flexible depending on the configuration. For example, I wouldn't mind spending $100 more if the system was fairly upgradeable.

The multiple cores is mainly for multiple simulations as I tend to run multiple configurations of the same simulation to tune parameters and test ideas. Normally, I would have one simulation on each core and leave one core free for normal desktop usage.
 
i know this might be a bit out of sorts in the intel cpu forum, but the BD 900 series platform might have a better upgrade path. also BD will have 8 cores when released next month. course this all depends on the performance of amd's new chip.

in any case, whether you buy intel or amd, probably best wait till BD is released. at the very least it should shake up cpu/mb pricing a bit.
 
I suspect LGA2011 will be out of your price range which means that unless AMD pulls a rabbit out of their hat with bulldozer is no real reason not to go with LGA1155 now.

Something like

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131714&Tpk=p8p67 ws revoloution $255 (if you don't want support for lots of GPUs you can use a cheaper board)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...9115072&cm_re=i5-2500k-_-19-115-072-_-Product $225 (you could go up to the 2600K which adds hyperthreading but I'm doubtful as to it being worth it for your usecase)
2x http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231422 2x$80=$160 (you could spend more to get lower latencies but the general consensus seems to be it's not worth it)

total $640

Hopefully your rig will be upgradable when ivy bridge comes out though there is never any gaurantee of a particular board supporting new CPUs even if the chipset is supposed to support it.
 
How is the hyperthreading on the Sandy Bridge? Would it make it possible for me to run sims on all 4 cores (using 4 threads) and use the free threads for normal desktop things like web browsing, hulu, etc?
 
plugwash said:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131714&Tpk=p8p67 ws revoloution $255 (if you don't want support for lots of GPUs you can use a cheaper board)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...9115072&cm_re=i5-2500k-_-19-115-072-_-Product $225 (you could go up to the 2600K which adds hyperthreading but I'm doubtful as to it being worth it for your usecase)
2x http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231422 2x$80=$160 (you could spend more to get lower latencies but the general consensus seems to be it's not worth it)
total $640
Click to expand...

He said math based sims etc...
The above isn't a very good build, best place to ask is probably mersenneforums.

The issue is really the software...

The 2600K is certainly worth the extra money depending on the program your running.

Also there is no need for that high end board get something with 2 pci-e 16X slots to run gpus if your doing any line sieve etc... take that extra 100 bucks and put it into a video card.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150523 has Double-precision FP for about 200 bucks

And memory timings and speed are very important for matrix solves etc, you'll need at least 16Gb start with 8GB and see if anything swaps, it's the easiest upgrade anyways.
 
Lots of bad info here.
1. Socket 1366 and 1155 are both dead sockets. They will not be seeing cpu's from new architectures.
2. Ivy Bridge will NOT be coming to 1155.
3. From the sound of it, you'll get a lot more out of 1366 because of the additional memory bandwidth, cores, and PCIE lanes.
 
1. Socket 1366 and 1155 are both dead sockets. They will not be seeing cpu's from new architectures.
2. Ivy Bridge will NOT be coming to 1155.
Click to expand...

I think you mean 1156 not 1155.
 
tlc4tvm said:
He said math based sims etc...
The above isn't a very good build, best place to ask is probably mersenneforums.

The issue is really the software...

The 2600K is certainly worth the extra money depending on the program your running.

Also there is no need for that high end board get something with 2 pci-e 16X slots to run gpus if your doing any line sieve etc... take that extra 100 bucks and put it into a video card.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150523 has Double-precision FP for about 200 bucks

And memory timings and speed are very important for matrix solves etc, you'll need at least 16Gb start with 8GB and see if anything swaps, it's the easiest upgrade anyways.
Click to expand...

What does '16Gb start with 8GB' mean? Does that mean I should buy 2x8GB RAM sticks for now or is there something new about RAM I've missed since the C2D days?
 
Intel's official stance right now is that cougar point is not compatible with ivy bridge. it may work unofficially, but real ivy bridge is quad channel ddr3, and 1155 won't allow that. It's like saying the socket 1156's are real i7's... lol...
 
Zoson said:
Intel's official stance right now is that cougar point is not compatible with ivy bridge. it may work unofficially, but real ivy bridge is quad channel ddr3, and 1155 won't allow that. It's like saying the socket 1156's are real i7's... lol...
Click to expand...


sorry dude but you are totally confusing mainstream versus enthusiast platforms

socket 1155 is the sequel to socket 1156
socket 2011 is the sequel to socket 1366
both sockets will co-exist to serve different market segments for at least a couple years

SB for socket 1155 came out january 2011. IB for 1155 (which still will run dual channel ram) will come out probably january 2012

SB for socket 2011 is due out Q3/Q4 2011 (this is the one that has quad channel ram and increased pcie lanes, also is still built on 32nm tech). IB 22nm die shrink for socket 2011 will probably come out a year after the SB socket 2011 variant.

Socket 2011 is NOT panther point. Panther point is socket 1155 IB chipset. All signs point to compatibility of shared features between cougar point and panther point via bios updates from motherboard manufacturers. (non-shared features obviously won't work).

Socket 2011 is patsburg.



Seriously man, spend some time looking up what is actually happening before spreading tons of misinformation.
 
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So the big difference for Socket 2011 is the 4 memory channels vs the 2 in LGA 1155?

How will that impact performance? And will performance gains only be seen if I'm using 4 sticks of RAM as opposed to 2?
 
CoW]8(0);1037217315 said:
So the big difference for Socket 2011 is the 4 memory channels vs the 2 in LGA 1155?

How will that impact performance? And will performance gains only be seen if I'm using 4 sticks of RAM as opposed to 2?
Click to expand...


With quad channel you need to use 4 sticks of ram

Quad channel memory will probably have negligible effects for most people. It looks like socket 2011 will debut with quad and 6 core processors with higher cache levels compared to the socket 1155 processors. Socket 2011 will also greatly increase the number of pcie lanes which will be beneficial to people who want to run tri/quad sli/xfire setups.

You mentioned that some of what you do uses CUDA but I have no idea how / if that scales to multi-gpus.

As far as being able to upgrade your cpu again in 2-3 years, I personally wouldn't get too caught up on that because no one knows how possible that will be. 3 years from now socket 1155 and 2011 could be dead/dying, or one or both of them could be going strong. It's impossible to know how long the sockets will last. Even if they still are around, who knows what kind of success people will have plugging a cpu 3 years from now into a p67 board. For example, even though socket 775 lasted a long time, it's not like you could just pop a core 2 quad into an old build you had that was a p4 and expect it to work like butter.

I would just say figure out what your budget is and see what the best you can get for your budget and go for it. If money isn't an issue and you care a lot about more threads and/or 3-4 gpu's then I'd say wait for socket 2011. If money doesn't grow on trees and/or you only see yourself ending up with 1-2 gpu's then go for a socket 1155 system whether it's now for SB or in january for IB.
 
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