A $5 Starfield mod to enable DLSS Frame Generation has been cracked to remove modder's DRM

I thought once you paid once on Patreon, his discord bot flagged you and you could download forever at that point even if you didn't leave it subscribed? Either way, I hope people buy it instead of pirating it. Especially since the lame pirates always say "like it, buy it" right? ;) He deserves compensation for his work just like anyone else does.
 
I thought once you paid once on Patreon, his discord bot flagged you and you could download forever at that point even if you didn't leave it subscribed? Either way, I hope people buy it instead of pirating it. Especially since the lame pirates always say "like it, buy it" right? ;) He deserves compensation for his work just like anyone else does.

If there is a free option, then people are going to take that path, simple fact games are expensive and paying for a Mod is not going to be a priority for people. BattleTech Advanced 3062 goes far beyond what this mod does and is completely free, otherwise they would get a Cease and Desist letter, I am surprised PureDark has not got that letter yet.
 
If there is a free option, then people are going to take that path,


Cease and Desist letter, I am surprised PureDark has not got that letter yet.
No, not all people are scum who steal because they feel like it. If $5 is too much for you, you probably shouldn't be buying $70 games and $2000 computer systems to play them on. Go without if you can't afford it, don't steal it.

Or use one of the free alternatives. Like Fsr the amd fans like you always extol the virtues of, or the ones on nexus mods.

As far as a c&d, PureDark is in China. Even if he cared about one he's unlikely to get it anyway because this only is benefiting Nvidia.
 
No, not all people are scum who steal because they feel like it. If $5 is too much for you, you probably shouldn't be buying $70 games and $2000 computer systems to play them on. Go without if you can't afford it, don't steal it.

Or use one of the free alternatives. Like Fsr the amd fans like you always extol the virtues of, or the ones on nexus mods.

As far as a c&d, PureDark is in China. Even if he cared about one he's unlikely to get it anyway because this only is benefiting Nvidia.
If all mods followed PureDarks example of charging say 5 bux.. You apply a couple hundred mods and now your paying 2000+ dollars for mods... No, that would be insane.
 
If all mods followed PureDarks example of charging say 5 bux.. You apply a couple hundred mods and now your paying 2000+ dollars for mods... No, that would be insane.
This isn't a typical mod though. It takes a lot more effort to make than an ini edit or a new face for a character. I think he's fine charging. Specialized skills usually get paid for, and this mod takes them to make.

If you don't want to pay for something, go without it. Pirating it is wrong and everyone knows it. If he opts to give it away, enjoy, but he hasn't. Many mod makers do, be thankful for them.

I'd say judging by his sales, he was right to charge for his time. I'm amazed so many never monetized their total conversions for example in the past and thought of it as somewhat foolish.
 
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This isn't a typical mod though. It takes a lot more effort to make than an ini edit or a new face for a character. I think he's fine charging.

If you don't want to pay for something, go without it. Pirating it is wrong and everyone knows it.

I'd say judging by his sales, he was right to charge for his time. I'm amazed so many never monetized their total conversions for example in the past and thought of it as somewhat foolish.
No one should pirate his work. The best way to combat paid mod is just making free versions like LukeFZ's.

And total conversions and mods don't ever charge for thier mods because it's illegal to do so without a dev or publisher's permission.
 
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No one should pirate his work. The best way to combat paid mod is just making free versions like LukeFZ's.

And total conversations and mods don't ever charge for this work because it's illegal to do so without a dev or publisher's permission.
Agreed. If you don't like something being paid, make your own or don't use it.

I've never heard of that law though. Got a citation? Some Eula's prohibit paid mods, but there is no law to my knowledge. If the Eula doesn't prohibit it, there's no copyright issue. I think you're mistaken :).
 
Agreed.

I've never heard of that law though. Got a citation? Some Eula's prohibit paid mods, but there is no law to my knowledge. If the Eula doesn't prohibit it, there's no copyright issue.
Its copyright crap. I shouldn't have said "illegal", they get into legal trouble. Usually just a C&D to make the modders back off trying to charge money or to kill a given mod entirely.
 
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It copyright crap. I shouldn't have said "illegal", they get into legal trouble. Usually just a C&D to make the modders back off trying to charge money or to kill a given mod entirely.
There's that and I imagine most people/groups that do large additions usually would just do their own project if they wanted to earn off of it, rather than confront a potential (even if not correct) cease and desist.

I don't begrudge those who want money for their work, and I'm grateful to mod makers that give us stuff for free too :D.
 
No, not all people are scum who steal because they feel like it. If $5 is too much for you, you probably shouldn't be buying $70 games and $2000 computer systems to play them on. Go without if you can't afford it, don't steal it.

Or use one of the free alternatives. Like Fsr the amd fans like you always extol the virtues of, or the ones on nexus mods.

As far as a c&d, PureDark is in China. Even if he cared about one he's unlikely to get it anyway because this only is benefiting Nvidia.
Everybody listen to mom here. She might wag her finger at you over the internet if you don't listen!

The value of a nation's currency entirely depends on that government's ability to enforce and protect it (e.g. USD is backed by the US military and police). Realistically speaking you could make the same argument for computer software. If you can't protect your software, well...
 
Its copyright crap. I shouldn't have said "illegal", they get into legal trouble. Usually just a C&D to make the modders back off trying to charge money or to kill a given mod entirely.
Copyright law is still law so it's fine to say something that violates it is illegal. The real distinction is that it's civil law rather than criminal law which is an important distinction for many reasons but it is law so it is a question of legality.

Many mods already straddle a fine line in regards to copyright and charging for them creates a situation where the game companies almost have to respond even if they like the project or risk weakening their IP rights. I'm not sure that this is one of those situations though because it builds more off of Nvidia's tech which might give them legal standing but they have no reason to stop it unless it's a poor implementation that makes their tech look bad(which it doesn't sound like it is).

I like that things have loosened up enough that donations for mods are fine but I wish there was a better system for it than patreon which is more geared towards subscriptions or going through nexus. DRM for mods is just adding another layer of possible failures so that's a no go for me though even if it was something I wanted.
 
I feel a steam (or other market) platform to sales mod and give a portion to the game owner that made the mod business possible would be the logical option to go, I imagine it already exist (steam workshop).
https://steamcommunity.com/workshop/aboutpaidcontent

For game that want to create a nice incentive to creator to boost the value of their game, but keep some control to avoid content that would diminish it.


The legality will be a par country and copyrights rules of the creator:

https://bethesda.net/en/article/27gkMO8RS6PPItVrenpbuC/bethesda-softworks-community-standards
  • No Crowdfunding or Monetization mod projects is allowed. – This is outlined in Section 1 of the EULA that states “No Fees of Use”.
Seem pretty clear that it break their eula:
https://eulas.bethesda.net/en/Starfield

But not everything a company put an EULA will be enforceable, but something like you cannot use our IP to make mod that charge fee to use should be I would imagine.
 
No, not all people are scum who steal because they feel like it. If $5 is too much for you, you probably shouldn't be buying $70 games and $2000 computer systems to play them on. Go without if you can't afford it, don't steal it.
Even if it wasn't against EULA paid mods set a bad precedent. It will be the death of modding if everyone starts charging for mods. There is zero QA with mods, you need to try them before you know if they are worth anything. most mods I download end up being trash or not working as advertised.

The only viable route is tips, or donations. Like how patreon works, but not paywalling the mod, maybe put a reminder in it. Of course most people won't pay for it, but those who can't afford it or determined not to pay for it, you won't be able to convert to paying customers using DRM either.
 
Even if it wasn't against EULA paid mods set a bad precedent. It will be the death of modding if everyone starts charging for mods. There is zero QA with mods, you need to try them before you know if they are worth anything. most mods I download end up being trash or not working as advertised.
I feel this does not take market force into account, for one you could have a reimbursement window like on steam, for paid mod it is 24 hours I think currently, people would rate and review mod like they do for games, the best would rise, modder would offer free demo-incomplete version of their mod or free before gaining a reputation over time. Market force would find ways to make it work.
 
No, not all people are scum who steal because they feel like it. If $5 is too much for you, you probably shouldn't be buying $70 games and $2000 computer systems to play them on. Go without if you can't afford it, don't steal it.
I don't like this method of thinking because this is the Corvette Tax, but in game form. If you can afford this, then you can afford that. This is a slippery slope that can snowball way out of control. Mods are generally free because for the most part, they are community backed. The only reason there's a price tag on this DLSS mod is because they know some people will pay due to FOMO.
Or use one of the free alternatives. Like Fsr the amd fans like you always extol the virtues of, or the ones on nexus mods.
If you guys didn't make FSR sound like the worst thing on the planet earth, you wouldn't have this problem to begin with.
 
No, not all people are scum who steal because they feel like it. If $5 is too much for you, you probably shouldn't be buying $70 games and $2000 computer systems to play them on. Go without if you can't afford it, don't steal it.

Or use one of the free alternatives. Like Fsr the amd fans like you always extol the virtues of, or the ones on nexus mods.

As far as a c&d, PureDark is in China. Even if he cared about one he's unlikely to get it anyway because this only is benefiting Nvidia.

Show one post of mine extoling the virtues of FSR or DLSS, I think they both suck unless your desperate for the frame rate. I also said nothing about pirating it, just not going to spend money on a mod when there are free alternatives out there, like most people.

China you say, even more reasons to distrust this mod and there is no benefit to Nvidia as they are stuck with dealing with any issues it can cause a user. Nvidia is more then capable of adding it to the game if they wish to work with the publisher if they desired it.
 
I feel this does not take market force into account, for one you could have a reimbursement window like on steam, for paid mod it is 24 hours I think currently, people would rate and review mod like they do for games, the best would rise, modder would offer free demo-incomplete version of their mod or free before gaining a reputation over time. Market force would find ways to make it work.
Any time limited demo implementation would require extensive and intrusive DRM. Which is antithetical to the whole idea of modding, we need more freedom, not less.

The mod community is building on each other. There are always mods of mods that improve on the original or take the idea further. This would be impossible with paid mods.
 
So how did a modder make dlss work? I thought it was super proprietary AI super computer b.s.that Nvidia had to run for a game in advance to get the necessary rendering data etc....
 
So how did a modder make dlss work? I thought it was super proprietary AI super computer b.s.that Nvidia had to run for a game in advance to get the necessary rendering data etc....
That was DLSS 1.0, DLSS 2.0 launched 2020 changed that for generic training of very high quality 16k resolution rendering, no training for the specific game needed and rely less on it now that it use the current game temporal data and motion vector

https://www.anandtech.com/show/15648/nvidia-intros-dlss-20-adds-motion-vectors
 
So how did a modder make dlss work? I thought it was super proprietary AI super computer b.s.that Nvidia had to run for a game in advance to get the necessary rendering data etc....
Not since DLSS 1.0.
The mod outputs the game to a virtual display then routes that virtual display through the DLSS plugin to your physical display.
The modern iterations of Super Resolution run completely inside the display buffer.
So it essentially uses that virtual monitor as the display buffer, it’s a messy way of doing it but it works.
 
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So how did a modder make dlss work? I thought it was super proprietary AI super computer b.s.that Nvidia had to run for a game in advance to get the necessary rendering data etc....

The mods work by translating the XeSS, FSR2 or DLSS 2 calls into the other API calls. This started I think with Potato of Doom's CyberFSR (Which became DLSS2FSR) and then shortly later Puredark started doing similar for other games and charging for his work. (worth noting the PureDark has also made other mods that do things like implement DLSS,FSR2 and XeSS into games that never had it to start with)

The reason this is doable is because while DLSS 2/3 is closed source, implementation is well documented. And Potato of Doom kinda proved the method, so reversing that was of course going to be possible.
 
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The only viable route is tips, or donations.
A guildmate of mine made what was considered an essential add on for elder scrolls online when it launched. It got over 2 million downloads in a month and got a whopping single $5 tip. I disagree tips are a viable option therefore. Sometimes the freeloaders need to be made to pay up if your goal is making money. Just an example.
 
Everybody listen to mom here. She might wag her finger at you over the internet if you don't listen!

The value of a nation's currency entirely depends on that government's ability to enforce and protect it (e.g. USD is backed by the US military and police). Realistically speaking you could make the same argument for computer software. If you can't protect your software, well...
Oh, so your pirate habits will land us with Denuvo on every game if that's what you're after ;). Thanks for being a leech, have a nice day.
 
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Oh, so your pirate habits will land us with Denuvo on every game if that's what you're after ;). Thanks for being a leech, have a nice day.

As a counterpoint though - if you're pirating games Denuvo isn't a concern of yours - it's other people's problem
 
As a counterpoint though - if you're pirating games Denuvo isn't a concern of yours - it's other people's problem
Except when it isn't cracked for months or years. But yes, that is another way the pirates hurt legitimate customers :).
 
On a side not, Jedi Survivor just got Patch 7 which guess what... dnt dnt daaa... adds DLSS! Maybe Starfield will add it and fix the fkn HDR, not holding my breath.
I would say 4 months + a few days for DLSS, HDR 6+ months.
 
I like PureDark’s approach. Yes, he’s charging $5/month, and the DRM is a one time check, so if you decide to unsubscribe you won’t lose access to that version of the mod. Anyways, what I like is having all of the mods listed with links in one place, Discord, with the ability to give real time feedback and see quick and continuous updates. In some instances you can give feedback and even request to see features implemented.

In all honesty I like the elegant solution of how he implements DLSS and FG, even over built in since I can toggle it on the fly without having to dig through menus to disable it.
 
Except when it isn't cracked for months or years. But yes, that is another way the pirates hurt legitimate customers :).

Eh - that's only a problem if you legitimately think there actually could ever or would ever be a world where literally no one pirated - whether you're for or against it or neutral. Otherwise, there's always gonna be DRM in games (remember decoder rings etc with your boxed game?) - just a matter of fact - customer's own job to make sure the customer doesn't get screwed. No one else's.
 
I like PureDark’s approach. Yes, he’s charging $5/month, and the DRM is a one time check, so if you decide to unsubscribe you won’t lose access to that version of the mod. Anyways, what I like is having all of the mods listed with links in one place, Discord, with the ability to give real time feedback and see quick and continuous updates. In some instances you can give feedback and even request to see features implemented.

In all honesty I like the elegant solution of how he implements DLSS and FG, even over built in since I can toggle it on the fly without having to dig through menus to disable it.
Actually the subscription is unneeded from what I've read. You just subscribe for one month and his discord allows you to get new versions forever.
 
Eh - that's only a problem if you legitimately think there actually could ever or would ever be a world where literally no one pirated - whether you're for or against it or neutral. Otherwise, there's always gonna be DRM in games (remember decoder rings etc with your boxed game?) - just a matter of fact - customer's own job to make sure the customer doesn't get screwed. No one else's.
Haha, yes, yes I do remember them. I prefer Denuvo to those decoder rings or the old CD checks :p. You are right people will always pirate.
 
Haha, yes, yes I do remember them. I prefer Denuvo to those decoder rings or the old CD checks :p. You are right people will always pirate.

Just wait for the game to hit $5 GOTY edition - exclusivity agreements expire, everyone's favorite upscale tech gets officially integrated, Denuvo gets removed and all patches + updates included from first launch of the game - that's my solution to the problem
 
Just wait for the game to hit $5 GOTY edition - exclusivity agreements expire, everyone's favorite upscale tech gets officially integrated, Denuvo gets removed and all patches + updates included from first launch of the game - that's my solution to the problem
That does sound like the prudent choice most of the time :D.
 
I don't like this method of thinking because this is the Corvette Tax, but in game form. If you can afford this, then you can afford that. This is a slippery slope that can snowball way out of control. Mods are generally free because for the most part, they are community backed. The only reason there's a price tag on this DLSS mod is because they know some people will pay due to FOMO.
Well, in a lot of ways it's a valid point. If people are plunking down $1000+, then buying the games in question, then $5 for access to one modders works to add something that doesn't exist in the games they may be looking to play, especially one that's high in demand, isn't an outrageous price. Now I'm not endorsing modders start charging considering a majority of the mods are just taking existing assets and just making minor tweaks or adjustments, but in the case of PureDark he's taking an external element that's not present in the game itself and implementing it, in this case adding DLSS and Frame Generation to a game that doesn't support either. Honestly, in any expensive hobby people should expect to have to pay something, and they should also know to stay within their limits and not extend.

So, if someone is building a 13900ks with a 4090 and 64GB DDR5 7200, etc. and then turning around and plopping down $70-$100 bucks for a game, then an extra $5 shouldn't be an issue to have a feature that doesn't exist in the game that'll benefit your setup in a game you're wanting to play. Just like someone looking at buying a Corvette, anyone with an inkling of understanding is going to know that it's going to be costly, and they would also understand that total cost of ownership over the lifetime of it's car is going to be expensive as well since they aren't known for great gas mileage, cheap maintenance, or cheap insurance. Those who go into things that are notoriously expensive without planning out or at least making sure they can support the habit, and then turn around and complain about the costs after the fact should probably dial it back a little, especially if $5 is too much of an asking price.
If you guys didn't make FSR sound like the worst thing on the planet earth, you wouldn't have this problem to begin with.
It's not the worst thing, but when compared to DLSS and XeSS it's inferior. I know it's a catch-all solution, and Starfield's FSR implementation isn't bad, but DLSS has been shown to be superior in every way, and in some cases superior to native resolutions. I honestly don't mind FSR, but having an Nvidia GPU, I'd prefer DLSS, and if it's not hard to implement, why not include it? I think that's what made FSR appear to be worse than it actually is, because in the eyes of someone like me, it makes me question why an AMD sponsored game wouldn't include DLSS? People with Nvidia RTX GPU's are going to use DLSS anyways, so there's going to be little to no comparisons from that camp, and the people that can't use DLSS are going to probably use either FSR or XeSS so there'd probably be little comparison there either, so why exclude others, and force people on to the worst looking solution of the three?
 
Again if charging/paywalling of mods gets acceptance... it will lead to more people charging for mods/mod tools. PureDark is not the first, or last, person who has charged for a mod tool like his. But if the idea keeps catching on it could be the end of PC Modding entirely. Mods are not, and should not, be treated as a revenue source. They are passion projects, learning tools and something to put in your portfolio/resume not a place to make money. And treating the mod community as a place to make money, does the PC Gaming community a giant disservice.

Because if it shifts towards a place to make money, the developers and publisher will come crashing down on it and kill it off entire. Either legally or just not making games moddable at all. PureDark could easily be targeted by any of the developers, or publishers, for violating a games EULA. Or by nVidia if by some odd twist they turned on the modding tool for whatever reason. At which point it, even if he lives in China, can make his professional career in coding trouble some.
 
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