92.1 Radiator Enough?

[Slartibartfast]

So I'm looking at watercooling the rig in my sig, but will only be wc'ing the 2 cpu's, not overclocked. So I'm wondering if a Thermochill 92.1 radiator would provide enough surface area to adequately cool them. Any input is apprecated

 

[holli4pirating]

Why only one rad: is it a price or space issue. The reason might change the advice you get.

 

[Slartibartfast]

space. I've been looking into this a bit and I'm pretty limited on where I can mount rads. I also have a lack of a) the proper tools and b) the space I would need in order to do any serious drilling/cutting.

 

[Marci]

It will, but will need a VERY loud 92mm fan due to core density. Don't consider it if you're after quiet watercooling, as at the point where the fan goes silent it tends to cease to penetrate core and you'll end up with temps in 50's on each CPU...

A PA120.1 would handle perfectly however with a silent fan.

 

[Slartibartfast]

It will, but will need a VERY loud 92mm fan due to core density. Don't consider it if you're after quiet watercooling, as at the point where the fan goes silent it tends to cease to penetrate core and you'll end up with temps in 50's on each CPU...

A PA120.1 would handle perfectly however with a silent fan.

Do you think a Panaflo M1A would do the trick? I already have a few of them.

I'm more after cooling that quiet. My cpu's already idle at about 50c and it seems like no matter what I do with the airflow, or how many times I reseat the hsf's they just don't get any cooler.

 

[Thor]

i wouldnt run the 92.1

i would higly reccommend a single 120 or at least a dual (or dual one per core) 80's even if this means you have to mount them externally. a single 92 just wont quite cut it im afraid.
you'll bee right where you started at the same temps, but 300$ in w/c gear in the hole.
what case you got and what is the full run down of parts ( i mean every thing)

thore

 

[Slartibartfast]

i wouldnt run the 92.1

i would higly reccommend a single 120 or at least a dual (or dual one per core) 80's even if this means you have to mount them externally. a single 92 just wont quite cut it im afraid.
you'll bee right where you started at the same temps, but 300$ in w/c gear in the hole.
what case you got and what is the full run down of parts ( i mean every thing)

thore

Ok, I didn't think it would be enough but I wasn't sure. Everything is in my sig, but am only looking to wc the cpu's for now. I don't oc the videocard and I don't think it's worth the money to wc a 7600gt. I do have two 92mm fans right next to each other on the back, is there any sort of adapter to fit a dual 80 into that? Do you think a single 120 could handle it? Case is silverstone TJ07. I may just spring for a new case to wc in, I'm talking to someone about modding a lian li pc 636 for me so that it will take a large radiator. Then again, if a single 120 is enough I could use it stock.

Thanks for all the replies so far

 

[Thor]

ok.. looked up your case (figure out what it was by your sig, but took some digging.. lol), and from the looks of it you should be able to top mount a 2x120 and still keep it internal

or you can put it behind the 2 120's on the bottom, you would have to relocate your hd's elsewhere, nothing some drive brackets wont fix or, you can go the 2x80 route and mount on the back, it would only mean snipping out the mesh by the I/O plate to run the hoses


you can also mount a 120 in the 5.25 bays easly and keep every thing where it is, i wasnt shure on the space but i figer most every thing is standard im running 3 5.25 bay drives, and can still fit my 120 under them in my case, and i only have 5 slots.. you have 6. you would have to eather loose the drive covers, or drill them out to get the air flow
thore

 

[Slartibartfast]

ok.. looked up your case (figure out what it was by your sig, but took some digging.. lol), and from the looks of it you should be able to top mount a 2x120 and still keep it internal

I don't think this will work. The two top 120mm fans are held in a mesh cage, not bolted directly to the chassis. The screws that hold the fans to the mesh are underneath. In addition they're not right next to each other, they're about .5" apart. It may be possible to attach a single 120 up there but I am unsure. At the very least I would have to cut some of the mesh top. I am also concerned about the weight of the rad, as that mesh is only held on by 8 small screws. It was 10, but I took it off once and two of them would not go back in.

or you can put it behind the 2 120's on the bottom, you would have to relocate your hd's elsewhere, nothing some drive brackets wont fix or, you can go the 2x80 route and mount on the back, it would only mean snipping out the mesh by the I/O plate to run the hoses

I don't think this will work either. Those 120mm fans in the bottom are attached to removable HD racks that are specifically molded. The fans are enclosed in the metal, there's no way to attach a rad and a fan there.

you can also mount a 120 in the 5.25 bays easly and keep every thing where it is, i wasnt shure on the space but i figer most every thing is standard im running 3 5.25 bay drives, and can still fit my 120 under them in my case, and i only have 5 slots.. you have 6. you would have to eather loose the drive covers, or drill them out to get the air flow

Are you talking about that one radiator that mounts in a 5.25 bay and blows air upward? I was looking at that, it might be my best option. Or do you mean somehow mounting a rad vertically in the bays?

 

[Thor]

I do have two 92mm fans right next to each other on the back, is there any sort of adapter to fit a dual 80 into that?

there is always the option of getting 80 to 92mm fan adapters and useing them as a spacer on the back ( I find that the fans work better with a good inch or so gap any way)

Do you think a single 120 could handle it?

yup.. with out a doubt. Your temps wont be stellar, but they will be better than any air you can throught at it and it may even still be alot more quiet, i have had my 120 set up on a 1.4ghz thunder chicken that was WAY o/c'ed (at like 1.9 or so) had the vid card (a ti4800) north bridge and 4 harddrives all cooled by the same loop, it never saw over 45°c in a 30°c room

and as current im running the same loop at 43°c in a 33° room..(full load mind you.. running f@h and winamp vis milkdrop) (yes.. its 4 am here and 92°f that said its bed time.. lol)

so.. only 2 cpus, and a 1.120 your good to go if you ask me

thore

 

[Thor]

Are you talking about that one radiator that mounts in a 5.25 bay and blows air upward? I was looking at that, it might be my best option. Or do you mean somehow mounting a rad vertically in the bays?

not upwards but straight back into the case this isnt the best pick but if you look closely, behind the grateing on the bottom right you can see my rad (and yes.. that case needs dusting.. lol)

there is a black ice extream a 1 inch spacer a dead 120mm fan and a working 120mm sunon in behind it the spacer and dead fan give the working fan room to spin without cavatating , thus keeping the noise down. even at full speed it just slightly hums

thore

 

[Slartibartfast]

Ok cool, thanks for all the help thore. I'll look into it some more. Knowing that a 120.1 would be sufficient is a big help.

Are there any socket 939/940 blocks you'd recommend? I'm still in the early early stages (probably buying in september).

 

[Thor]

Ok cool, thanks for all the help thore. I'll look into it some more. Knowing that a 120.1 would be sufficient is a big help.

Are there any socket 939/940 blocks you'd recommend? I'm still in the early early stages (probably buying in september).

im really partial to danger dens blocks... they work great and there pretty much future proof , i used theis same tdx block on my 2500+ (socket a) i simply ordered a new acrillic top for it (only 15$ with shipping) and poof, it now fits my 939... there also a great componey to work with, they quick in there shipping, they keep there web site updated, and above all.. they acctually answer your e-mails... ( i had a part missing once and they sent it out to me over night.. and it was justa filler port.. (btw.. over night shipping to hawaii is about 80$ no matter what... for a 20$ part.. ) there are others out there but i dont have any experience with them.. DD started makeing spirals way back when and i never looked back

thore

 

[ElMoIsEviL]

im really partial to danger dens blocks... they work great and there pretty much future proof , i used theis same tdx block on my 2500+ (socket a) i simply ordered a new acrillic top for it (only 15$ with shipping) and poof, it now fits my 939... there also a great componey to work with, they quick in there shipping, they keep there web site updated, and above all.. they acctually answer your e-mails... ( i had a part missing once and they sent it out to me over night.. and it was justa filler port.. (btw.. over night shipping to hawaii is about 80$ no matter what... for a 20$ part.. ) there are others out there but i dont have any experience with them.. DD started makeing spirals way back when and i never looked back

thore

I agree, although my current rig's don't use DangerDen I've used many of there blocks in the past. I would, however, not recomend a TDX set of blocks for your Dual Opteron rig. TDX blocks are VERY restrictive and would require a larger more powerful pump (like a Swiftech MCP655). The pump is not only larger but louder then needed.

You could use a simple Maze4 set of blocks (non-restrictive) hooked up to a Black Ice Extreme Rev2 or Thermochill 120.1 rad with a smallish Danger Den MAG II - LE pump (150GPH). For a reservoir I would use a Dual Floppy or Single Drive bay res depending on where you have the most space (most people don't run floppy drives NE more so the floppy spots are freed up).

 

[Slartibartfast]

I agree, although my current rig's don't use DangerDen I've used many of there blocks in the past. I would, however, not recomend a TDX set of blocks for your Dual Opteron rig. TDX blocks are VERY restrictive and would require a larger more powerful pump (like a Swiftech MCP655). The pump is not only larger but louder then needed.

You could use a simple Maze4 set of blocks (non-restrictive) hooked up to a Black Ice Extreme Rev2 or Thermochill 120.1 rad with a smallish Danger Den MAG II - LE pump (150GPH). For a reservoir I would use a Dual Floppy or Single Drive bay res depending on where you have the most space (most people don't run floppy drives NE more so the floppy spots are freed up).

Thanks for all the suggestions! How does that Danger Den pump mount? I don't see any screw holes on the bottom.

 

[ElMoIsEviL]

Thanks for all the suggestions! How does that Danger Den pump mount? I don't see any screw holes on the bottom.

Dbl sided adhesive..

 

[Slartibartfast]

Dbl sided adhesive..

Very cool. I don't exaclty own a drill currently, so that's good news

 

[Pooky]

I water cooled in my YY Cube.

I mounted the reservoir on the top on the mobo side and put the 120mm rad on top, but placed my HDD's in the 5.25" (like I always do though )

If you have 2-3 5.25" bays open, you could place the rad there - it's easy to make holders out of scrap metal or even buy holders to place a rad in a 5.25" bay.

Copy this idea: http://www.voyeurmods.com/index.php?action=item&id=2423&prevaction=category&previd=2&prevstart=0

Or even this: http://www.voyeurmods.com/index.php?action=item&id=2422&prevaction=category&previd=2&prevstart=0

 

[Slartibartfast]

I water cooled in my YY Cube.

I mounted the reservoir on the top on the mobo side and put the 120mm rad on top, but placed my HDD's in the 5.25" (like I always do though )

If you have 2-3 5.25" bays open, you could place the rad there - it's easy to make holders out of scrap metal or even buy holders to place a rad in a 5.25" bay.

Copy this idea: http://www.voyeurmods.com/index.php?action=item&id=2423&prevaction=category&previd=2&prevstart=0

Or even this: http://www.voyeurmods.com/index.php?action=item&id=2422&prevaction=category&previd=2&prevstart=0

That's cool. With that 5.25 mount kit, it looks like you would slide the fan right in there between the brackets, correct?

 

[Pooky]

That's cool. With that 5.25 mount kit, it looks like you would slide the fan right in there between the brackets, correct?

A 25mm fan will fit in there.

 

[Slartibartfast]

A 25mm fan will fit in there.

That's what I figured. So my next question is, would I be better off picking a radiator and mounting it that way, or just going for the Thermaltake AquaBay?

 

[Thor]

That's what I figured. So my next question is, would I be better off picking a radiator and mounting it that way, or just going for the Thermaltake AquaBay?

hmm.. good question, i dont know how well they work, would you have any objection to running 2 if need be?? ( that would be a worst case kinda thing)

the main issue i see with them is that your still dumping the hot air into the case, if you can figure out a way to make it duct to any of the out going fans you might be ok, but that looks like its gonna be a duct job clear acrossed the case, the fans on thoughts blow down ( or up.. what ever) where as a BIE mounted verticly will move the air from front to back ( im sure you see what im getting at here... )

/edit issue #2, there only 3/8in if your planing on going tdx or maze 4 you really should have a 1/2in rad to to get rid of that choke point

(oh, and the TDX will work fine if you take out the jet, i see littel flow difference between the block in the loop with no jet and the block out of the loop (visual flow, i have no way to acctually test flow rate befor and after)but there is a visual difference between jetted and unjetted , but no difference in temps on a A64 ( i think the heat spreader has alot to do with this)where as there was a 2°c difference on my 2500+ barton (jetted ran cooler))


thore

 

[Slartibartfast]

thanks for all the input thore.

Ok, I've managed to find a few people who've watercooled the TJ07 by mounting the radiator on the bottom with the fans blowing out the side, but nobody really goes into detail how they do it. Someone mentioned velcro but that was it

 

[Slartibartfast]

(oh, and the TDX will work fine if you take out the jet, i see littel flow difference between the block in the loop with no jet and the block out of the loop (visual flow, i have no way to acctually test flow rate befor and after)but there is a visual difference between jetted and unjetted , but no difference in temps on a A64 ( i think the heat spreader has alot to do with this)where as there was a 2°c difference on my 2500+ barton (jetted ran cooler))

Hey man, can you tell me a little bit more about the difference between the maze 4 and the tdx? I'm not entirely sure what you mean by the jet and DD's site doesn't really mention it. Thanks!

 

[Arcygenical]

The "jet" is a plate inserted between the inlet barb and the diamond pin machining pattern in the bottom. The plate can diffuse, disperse or speed up the water entering the block. Removing the jet alltogether allows for better performance in a lower flow setup.

The maze 4 is an outdated CPU block. It has much lower surface area than the TDX and has only a maze configration, no pins to increase surface area. The TDX is a much better choice. The Maze is the best for GPU's and Chipset's however.

 

[Thor]

The "jet" is a plate inserted between the inlet barb and the diamond pin machining pattern in the bottom. The plate can diffuse, disperse or speed up the water entering the block. Removing the jet alltogether allows for better performance in a lower flow setup.

The maze 4 is an outdated CPU block. It has much lower surface area than the TDX and has only a maze configration, no pins to increase surface area. The TDX is a much better choice. The Maze is the best for GPU's and Chipset's however.

For the most part yes this is correct, there are advantages bewteen the 2 blocks that make them both viable, the maze 4 style has a much larger surface area on the inside of the block and is better suited for cooling 'caped' chips like your north bridge or amd 64, because the heat is already going thought a heat spreader you can utlize more of the surface on the inside of the block, the TDX on the other hand because it has a small pin grid array and jetting its ment to cool that small area very rapidly and is better suited for cooling open die chips like vid cards and athlon xp's removeing the jet on the tdx increases the flow throught the block and makes the sides of the block more viable from a cooling stand point (i.e. the flow is fast enought theres acctually water moveing past them and thus moveing heat) im personaly useing a jeted TDX on my 64 (jet #4) and dont realy see much of a difference between jeted and unjeted with this block, but i bet i would get better temps if i used a maze 4 on this chip, or useing this tdx block with an uncaped chip (but im to chicken shit.. lol ) regardless its still quieter and cooled better than any air solution, as most are...

thore

 

[Slartibartfast]

Thanks for the info guys

I'll be cooling capped opterons, so in that sense it seems like the maze 4 is the better choice (the lower price helps too).

So assuming I use maze 4's, then, when applying the thermal compound I would want to spread it evenly over the heatspreader, correct? When using air cooling I've always done the "tiny drop in the center" method. I'm assuming that spreading the compound over the heatspreader would take better advantage of the larger surface area of the maze 4.

 

[Erasmus354]

For the most part yes this is correct, there are advantages bewteen the 2 blocks that make them both viable, the maze 4 style has a much larger surface area on the inside of the block and is better suited for cooling 'caped' chips like your north bridge or amd 64, because the heat is already going thought a heat spreader you can utlize more of the surface on the inside of the block, the TDX on the other hand because it has a small pin grid array and jetting its ment to cool that small area very rapidly and is better suited for cooling open die chips like vid cards and athlon xp's removeing the jet on the tdx increases the flow throught the block and makes the sides of the block more viable from a cooling stand point (i.e. the flow is fast enought theres acctually water moveing past them and thus moveing heat) im personaly useing a jeted TDX on my 64 (jet #4) and dont realy see much of a difference between jeted and unjeted with this block, but i bet i would get better temps if i used a maze 4 on this chip, or useing this tdx block with an uncaped chip (but im to chicken shit.. lol ) regardless its still quieter and cooled better than any air solution, as most are...

thore

This is flat out WRONG and not true. An IHS merely helps to distribute the heat a bit more, the bulk of the heat is still directly over the core. In fact older blocks like the Maze4 CPU dont perform better than newer impingement blocks which target their cooling on capped processors (which btw chipsets are rarely capped only CPU's). The IHS merely serves to distort results and bring down the performance of all blocks, hurting better performing blocks more than worse performing blocks.


All in all, do NOT get a Maze4 block for the CPU. There are much much much better options for low cost CPU blocks. The Maze4 GPU block is a completely different unit however.

 

[Slartibartfast]

All in all, do NOT get a Maze4 block for the CPU. There are much much much better options for low cost CPU blocks. The Maze4 GPU block is a completely different unit however.

So you're vote is for the TDX as well? Am I correct in that if I use a TDX block with a DD MAG II LE I'll need to take the jet out?

 

[Erasmus354]

No dont take the jet out, although you probably shouldn't use the #5 accelerator plate. I would stick to the default plate. If you have to use DD, then yes the TDX is your best bet. Swiftech makes some good low flow blocks (MCW6000 first, Apogee second).

 

[Slartibartfast]

No dont take the jet out, although you probably shouldn't use the #5 accelerator plate. I would stick to the default plate. If you have to use DD, then yes the TDX is your best bet. Swiftech makes some good low flow blocks (MCW6000 first, Apogee second).

Thanks for the input. I don't have to use DD, it's just sort of where I started. (as you can tell I'm a total n00b at this ). I will check out those swiftech blocks.

 

[Slartibartfast]

I'm still not entirely clear on the tdx accelerator plates. How exactly do they work? According to DD's site it comes with the #1 accelerator plate - the other plates are optional. Assuming a low-flow system, which plate would work best?

I also checked out the swiftech mcw6000, my only concern there is that it's 3/8" ID - the impression that I've gotten is that 1/2" ID is better so that's what I was planning on using.

 

[Arcygenical]

This is flat out WRONG and not true. An IHS merely helps to distribute the heat a bit more, the bulk of the heat is still directly over the core. In fact older blocks like the Maze4 CPU dont perform better than newer impingement blocks which target their cooling on capped processors (which btw chipsets are rarely capped only CPU's). The IHS merely serves to distort results and bring down the performance of all blocks, hurting better performing blocks more than worse performing blocks.

All in all, do NOT get a Maze4 block for the CPU. There are much much much better options for low cost CPU blocks. The Maze4 GPU block is a completely different unit however.

QFT. I have a maze 4 CPU block that I've used on the Athlon 64 3000 that I had before my X2. Upgrading to a TDX on the same processor yielded a 4c drop (That was with fresh AS5, the maze 4 even had the benefit of a cured batch). I really regretted purchasing the maze 4 over the RBX (and did so because I hated having to use a Y connector) but I later converted it into a chipset block and sold it to a really good friend.

IMO the MAIN purpost of the IHS was not to distrubute heat at all. AMD and Intel both know that the IHS will only hurt cooling performance, which is why people resort to uncapping their processors. The IHS spreads temperatures, sure, but it also blocks thermal transfer. Think of it this way, the hottest portion of the IHS will be directly over the die. The maze 4 doesn't have an inlet anywhere near this part of the CPU. The surface area in the maze 4 has little persuasion in temperatures as the majority of it is offcenter, nowhere near the red hot "over the die" zone.

The reason IHS's are there... Well, is because they prevent cracked cores! Calling the an IHS an IHS is truely a bad idea too, as they barely help to spread the heat over a larger area, and the base of a HSF can do the exact same thing!




Bart, to be honest... the difference between ANY of the plates will result in a 1-2'c temp difference. There's a blank plate included in the plate kit that lets you try your own design. Stick with the default #1, as changing the plates will void your warranty. To be honest, running my pump at the #2 setting (out of 5) gets me better temps while I'm not gaming (which is really wierd that I'd get better idle but not load temperatures) which I dont do lots of. This, to me, proves that the block, with the default plate performs well under a lower flow condition. Either way, with a 120mm GTS radiator you will STILL be getting mid 30's as your CPU temp, an awesome improvement at a lower dba level...

BTW the plates are, most literally, a 1/8" piece of acrylic with some holes drilled in them. Big deal.

The difference between 1/2 and 3/8 tubing is one you dont want to ask about here . There are many zealots that insist on one over the other. To be truthful, they're quite similar in all regards, 1/2" being my preferred size because IMO it looks better. Nothing else. It comes down to waterblock design.

 

[Erasmus354]

Arcygenical you are exactly correct that the IHS impedes thermal transference more then it helps, this is why it distorts cooling results of waterblocks. The IHS as you rightly pointed out is for protecting the core.

A few notes:

1) Changing the nozzles on the TDX does *not* void your warranty. The sticker that says "warranty void if removed" is lying. DangerDen merely places that sticker there to let you know the block has been pressure tested and passed. They have said that removing the sticker and/or opening the block does not void the warranty at all. However they do say that if you improperly reassemble the block they are not responsible for damages. Shoot they aren't responsible for damaged hardware anyways, just the WB. Simply put, do a leak test and you are fine.

2) The accelerator plates are just different sized openings for the most part. I believe the #1 is the middle of the road, #2 is 10% larger, #3 is 20% larger, #4 is 10% smaller, and #5 is a series of like 10-12 small "jets". The smaller the nozzle the higher the turbulence it creates. Turbulence is good for waterblock performance, but bad for flow as it increases the back pressure of the block. Sticking with the #1 nozzle will work fine.

3) To the OP: I am sorry if I confused you with my MCW6000 comment. Swiftech has a range of products in the 6000 series, and I normally just refer to them all as the MCW6000 as the differences are negligible (mounting hardware and barb size). The MCW6002 is a 1/2" version of the same block.

4) 1/2" Tubing is better than 3/8" tubing, it provides less resistance to flow, but in most systems this difference is pretty small. Pumps generally used today are much better at pumping against restriction than the old aquarium pumps that people used to use--and that some still pay exorbitant sums of money for pretty namebrand versions of the same old pumps. What you want to achieve in your watercooling system is something where the tubing accounts for less than 5-10% of the total restriction of the loop. It is pointless from a performance standpoint to needlessly hamper your performance with something as silly as catheter sized tubing. You are probably fine with 3/8" or 1/2" tubing.

 

[Slartibartfast]

Thanks for all the input guys, it is very much appreciated

So how does the TDX compare with the MCW6002? I notice the MCW6002 is a bit cheaper, but if I can get better performance out of the TDX it might be worth it. Also, given the info above I would assume that the TDX is more flexible: I could change the plates out if I ever want to switch to a high flow system, correct?

Right now I'm really attached to the MAG II LE because of it's small footprint and adhesive mounting, but that's not to say I won't want to do something bigger later on. I'm going to be using this basic system for a long time, so I'm not worried about investing in socket 940 blocks (going to upgrade to opteron 285's next year).

 

[Thor]

Thanks for all the input guys, it is very much appreciated

So how does the TDX compare with the MCW6002? I notice the MCW6002 is a bit cheaper, but if I can get better performance out of the TDX it might be worth it. Also, given the info above I would assume that the TDX is more flexible: I could change the plates out if I ever want to switch to a high flow system, correct?

Right now I'm really attached to the MAG II LE because of it's small footprint and adhesive mounting, but that's not to say I won't want to do something bigger later on. I'm going to be using this basic system for a long time, so I'm not worried about investing in socket 940 blocks (going to upgrade to opteron 285's next year).

While I can’t speak on the difference between the mcw600x and the TDX, I went with the TDX because dangerden offers different mounting plates for it. I had a socket-A, got a socket 940, bought a 12 dollar mounting plate for my block and I’m back in business... as I said I don’t know if they have that option with the other block but at the time DD was the only place to offer such service. You have a 940 now, order a new plate when you do the upgrade ... your good to go

I find it a little weird that people are only seeing 4°c difference between the TDX and maze 4 on caped chips as I only saw 3°f difference between the maze 2 and TDX on an open core chip...(a thunder chicken at that) while I do agree that the IHS is the devil, it is called an IHS for a reason, (and DUH.. the hottest part is right over the core... gee ya think) while I understand it is more there to protect the core, there is no way it cant move some heat outwards on its own... (unless its defying the laws of nature somehow...), I’m conceding defeat on the maze 4 being the better block for the job with a caped cpu, however, do to the heat spreader, something with a similar but larger grid array that the TDX should do the job better. Not that the TDX isn’t up to the job... if you’re looking for quiet and possibly a small to mid OC tdx is good enough... if you’re looking for a significant OC... I'm sure there is a better choice but I wouldn’t know what to recommend...

thore

 

[Arcygenical]

Yeah, the maze 4 is a great block for things other than GPU cooling. It had it's day, but is easily outshadowed by a TDX, RBX, Storm or Apogee.

About the IHS thing, you're absolutuly right. It does spread out heat, it spreads out heat alot. The problem with the IHS isn't the metal plate it's self, but the thermal compound between the die and the plate that causes problems. What happens if you use too much AS5? You get higher temperatures of course.

Processors with the IHS have twice the thickness of thermal compound as ones that don't (you can't avoid half of it, without voiding your warranty). If the IHS was welded to the die, things would be different.

My point about the IHS is that... well it's a plate of metal. The bottom of your HSF is also a plate of metal. The point of the IHS is to spread heat, which is exactly the same as the point of having a HSF in the first plate. Using the bottom of a copper hsf to do the same job as the IHS, without anywhere near the amount of thermal paste will always result in a lower temperature, that's pretty much a given.

You're right. The TDX isn't the best block. That goes hands down to the Storm. I can guarentee, however, that your chip or mobo is going to hit it's limit before the cooling capacity of the TDX (and quite possibly the Maze4) even become a real issue. The TDX, with the D5, however is the best *deal*. Unless you're willing to shell out money for the best radiator/pump/block... having the very best of 1 component and comprimise on 2 others is a bad way to go.

On a TDX I manage to get an extra 774 mhz out of my 3800, all without going over 40' load. A storm would yield a 2~ degree difference in the lower direction.

To Bart, I still recommend...

Gt 120 (or 240) stealth radiator,
A D5 pump, or the new Mag II will suffice
MasterKleer Tubing
TDX or Storm (if you're going with the storm, get the D5, end of story).

Good luck

 

[Slartibartfast]

Thanks again for the replies guys, it is very much appreciated

I'm actually not going to be doing much oc'ing. My mobo is primarily a serverboard (supermicro h8dce) and isn't meant to be oc'd. I think it's possible but I'm sure the mobo will reach it's limit before the cpu's do. My main reason for investigating watercooling is that the case I have now sucks for airflow in dual socket systems. Right now I'm using thermalright ultra 90's with panaflo fans (forget which atm), and my idle temps are 48 and 52 on the cpu's, with no oc

For the rad, I've heard that those thermochill units are the best, but they're definitely expensive. Do you guys think it's worth it?

For the rest of the build, I have yet to check out the price for a tdx block w/ D5 pump, but you guys have def. convinced me to get the tdx.

Once I get the parts picked out, I know I'm going to have some basic questions about how to go about putting it all together I've read through the sticky at xs and it was very helpful.

Here's a question off of the top of my head: what do you guys do when you first get your parts? That xs sticky recommended the whole 24 hour vinegar bath, etc etc, but I've seen some people around here just flush w/ distilled water.

 

[Thor]

Here's a question off of the top of my head: what do you guys do when you first get your parts? That xs sticky recommended the whole 24 hour vinegar bath, etc etc, but I've seen some people around here just flush w/ distilled water.

shit my systems are lucky to get distilled.. lol, im cheap and lazy...

i usually preassemble the whole setup on the system its going into
get the tubeing cut to length
take it all apart and boil the tubeing in a big ass pot for about 10 min or so assemble the whole thing back together (excludeing the rad)
flush with vinegar
then flush with about 1/2 gal of distilled water
drain and refill drop it all into an old ice chest for leak test where it stays for at least 4 hours but usually over night
then the rad gets boiled in the big ass pot for about 30 min. (some times i use the pot sometimes it gose in the dishwasher on the sanatize cycle, last time i did it it got both because the outside fins on the rad where so cloged with dust the garden hose wasn't good enought...(dishwasher first so when you boil it you can use distilled if you want ) )
the reason i boil the parts is to kill off bacteria in an attempt to keep growth at bay, and so i dont have to use additives in the water that hamper preformance.
i know i boil the hose first only to dump vinegar in it, that boil is only to soften the hose up some, despite the how big my case is the tubeing has to make some tight bends and even tygon can't make them... warming it up helps alot
after the leak test reassemble every thing in the case and re-leak-test for at least 8 hours befor turning the system on
dont forget to discharge the system befor you put the water to it, PC parts can get wet if they dont have any juice running throught em...disconnect the psu power supply from the wall, then disconnect the psu from the mobo its self and hit the power button.. the system should blip, and be (for the most part) compleatly dischraged, this way if your mobo happens to get soaked, it has a better chance of surviveing. just make shure its compleatly dry befor hooking any thing back up. If it dose get wet an air compressor will go along way toward getting most of the water out. if your still not sure and need to get it up and running soon and cant wait over night, a quick bake in the oven will go along way (lowest temp possible in a cookie sheet mostly covered with tinfoil dont cover to tightly as we want the moisture to evap.) watch it carefully , or pull it out every 5 min and let it cool off.. plastic parts dont like heat..

i think i got it all

wanted to cover bases if the worst should happen as well as i have had my mobo and vid card totally soaked more than a few times (8 if im not mistaken... lol. had a bad teflon job that i just couldnt get right , and a refill accedent or 3 and 1 hose blowout (i was experimenting with a pressurized system.. long story co2 was involved) regardless i made sure the system had no power and it was compleatly recoverable eevry time.. (6 out of the 8 times it was the same board at that... and 2 out of the 6 the system was acctually on and working (bad teflon job that didnt show up until the system was warm. this was during the sprii@l and orriginal maze days mind you...) and the newer blocks are alot safer with the rubber o-rings be shure you get them tight, but not so tight you'll crack the top ( its pretty hard to do... if its giveing you a fair amount of resistance its tight enought... (i usually go with as hard as i can tighten it by hand, i dont use tools...(for the barbs of course , if it needs an allen wrench then its as tight as i can turn it with out stripping something..still its plexi, dont over tighten) )

dont let me scare you off... i have had this sytem in and out over 100 times with my longest single install/ prats run over 9 mounths without haveing/wanting to mess with it.. and have only had 8 problems with it.. its a pretty good raitio if you ask me..

thore

 

[Slartibartfast]

Thanks again Nice to know what I can do if I soak anything - this will save me starting a "zomg it's all wet" thread in a few weeks

So here's another question: do you think I should go w/ a resevoir or a t-line? I was leaning towards a clear bay res so that in case a leak springs somewhere I will have a pretty quick visual clue. However, it seems like it could be pretty hard to work with - like I would have to accurately cut the tubing to it, fill it, and then mount it.

edit: thore, what case are you using? I think I'm going to just pick up a YY-0221 and move my system over there. I know somebody who might be able to cut some holes in it so it'll take a 120.2.