8TB shuckable hard drive $121

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I would move up from 6tb's to 10 or 12tb drives but don't think my Perc H700 can handle that big.
The H700 has been tested with 10TB drives. I run 4TB drives on mine. It DOES need the lastest firmware to do it, otherwise 2TB is the limit. My H800 is working up to 36x6TB in a RAID6 configuration.
 

funkydmunky

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Thanks to those who gave tips on shucking WD drives.
I shucked a Seagate last month. 3TB model. It died suddenly after a whole 1/2 dozen uses. Was still under warranty but suspected the drive was fine but I wanted the data, so I shucked away knowing I would be loosing the warranty. Drive was fine but my shucking totally destroyed the hell out of it LOL! At one point I was literally tearing it apart. I didn't see an option.
 

Spartacus09

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Thanks to those who gave tips on shucking WD drives.
I shucked a Seagate last month. 3TB model. It died suddenly after a whole 1/2 dozen uses. Was still under warranty but suspected the drive was fine but I wanted the data, so I shucked away knowing I would be loosing the warranty. Drive was fine but my shucking totally destroyed the hell out of it LOL! At one point I was literally tearing it apart. I didn't see an option.
Some drives are easier than others, WD's are known to be fairly easy to remove, Seagate's...not so much.
 

nilepez

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It's pretty hard to get them apart without breaking the tabs inside. Out of 3 of them, I've gotten 1 of them apart tabs intact. The other two not so much...
someone is bound to have a link to instructions. It's actually very easy once you see how it's done. Just use a bunch of credit cards, gift cards, guitar picks (I suspect) or hotel keys that you forgot to return.

I've done at least 5 of them and never broke any of them. I'm pretty sure I used this tutorial https://hardforum.com/data/attachment-files/2017/06/81882_Shuck_Techniques.pdf
 

Burticus

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The H700 has been tested with 10TB drives. I run 4TB drives on mine. It DOES need the lastest firmware to do it, otherwise 2TB is the limit. My H800 is working up to 36x6TB in a RAID6 configuration.
36 drives, thats crazy talk man. (for home anyway)
 
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10TB deal alive again at Newegg today.
Don't need one as I have an older 8TB version I picked up last year, but for the 10TB version here at around $170 after discount and taxes applied with free shipping, this is a pretty sweet deal. A 10TB WD Red drive (which is basically the same drive) goes for $330. Really can't beat that kind of value with a stick!
 

Spartacus09

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Don't need one as I have an older 8TB version I picked up last year, but for the 10TB version here at around $170 after discount and taxes applied with free shipping, this is a pretty sweet deal. A 10TB WD Red drive (which is basically the same drive) goes for $330. Really can't beat that kind of value with a stick!
It possible with the BF or Xmas deals it may even go down to $160 (150 may be too optimistic).
I'm hoping the 8TB easystores at BB go down to $120 similarly, buying HDD from them has gotten me elite plus the past 2 years alone.
 

SamirD

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What hard drive manufacturer did you say you work for? And don't tell Backblaze this info. Their entire business model is based around desktop drives and will come crashing down.
None, and they do post higher than average failure rates than for enterprise class drives. Probably why their HGST drives, which were always more enterprise in their design than consumer have faired well, and their WD and Seagate consumer oriented designs have shown some higher failure rates.

A hard drive is a part that will wear out. If your whole business makes the swap process a part of the business model, then it's not a real issues, but a lot of enterprises aren't built that way so they want more reliable drives to minimize dealing with failures.
 

nilepez

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None, and they do post higher than average failure rates than for enterprise class drives. Probably why their HGST drives, which were always more enterprise in their design than consumer have faired well, and their WD and Seagate consumer oriented designs have shown some higher failure rates.

A hard drive is a part that will wear out. If your whole business makes the swap process a part of the business model, then it's not a real issues, but a lot of enterprises aren't built that way so they want more reliable drives to minimize dealing with failures.
Yes, but as backblaze has shown for years, it's cheaper to just have some extra drives and swap them than it is to pay for enterprise drives and that was in an enterprise setup. For consumers, enterprise drives don't make sense, even if you've got a NAS running 24x7. Odds are those drives will last 7 years, which as I said before is longer than I'm likely to use the drive, given how quickly platter density doubles.

I guess if your risk tolerance is super low or you have money to burn, go for it, but I'd never recommend it for the home. Just use a nas and have a spare in case one dies.
Even when I've had drives go bad, i can get data off of them (with at most one exception)....and I wouldn't have bothered with that if I was running a NAS or RAID at that time.
 

SamirD

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Yes, but as backblaze has shown for years, it's cheaper to just have some extra drives and swap them than it is to pay for enterprise drives and that was in an enterprise setup. For consumers, enterprise drives don't make sense, even if you've got a NAS running 24x7. Odds are those drives will last 7 years, which as I said before is longer than I'm likely to use the drive, given how quickly platter density doubles.

I guess if your risk tolerance is super low or you have money to burn, go for it, but I'd never recommend it for the home. Just use a nas and have a spare in case one dies.
Even when I've had drives go bad, i can get data off of them (with at most one exception)....and I wouldn't have bothered with that if I was running a NAS or RAID at that time.
They're not trying to do it the enterprise way, but on the cheap, so swapping drives is a part of their business model whereas it isn't in the enterprise world. They publish their drive stats which is great, but they're finding out a lot of the growing pains of doing it on the cheap and their latest storage pods are starting to use some enterprise designs and components. (I believe the newest ones are even ready for sas drives.) These 'disrupters' that start out at 10% of the cost eventually make it to 50% of their competitors cost as they learn the ropes--seems to be the same in any industry.

I actually look at the the flip side as enterprises will have multiple backups off-site and even globally while most consumers won't so their single drive can be the only copy. Having that single drive be one that the manufacturer stands behind with a longer warranty does speak to me about to the reliability of the drive.
 

nilepez

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They're not trying to do it the enterprise way, but on the cheap, so swapping drives is a part of their business model whereas it isn't in the enterprise world. They publish their drive stats which is great, but they're finding out a lot of the growing pains of doing it on the cheap and their latest storage pods are starting to use some enterprise designs and components. (I believe the newest ones are even ready for sas drives.) These 'disrupters' that start out at 10% of the cost eventually make it to 50% of their competitors cost as they learn the ropes--seems to be the same in any industry.

I actually look at the the flip side as enterprises will have multiple backups off-site and even globally while most consumers won't so their single drive can be the only copy. Having that single drive be one that the manufacturer stands behind with a longer warranty does speak to me about to the reliability of the drive.
The warranty is irrelevant. Most consumer drives will outlast an enterprise warranty and it'd be cheaper to replace your consumer drive every 2 or 3 years than to buy an enterprise drive, so why bother? You'd be better off buying a second drive to back up to.
Look, if you're running a server farm, I get it. If you're the kinda person who thinks, "Ooh extended warranty," then OK, but as a matter of practical use, an enterprise drive in the home is almost always a waste of money. I just bought 8TB drives 2 years ago. They're already 1/2 the highest capacity drives. I will almost certainly be moving to 16TB drives before a single drive dies, just like I moved to 8TB drives before a single 4TB drive died.

With the exception of 2 maxtor drives (one was a warranty replacement for the first), all my drives have lasted well beyond warranty or beyond their useful life. As I said above, I had a lot of WD Green drives and those that died all lasted beyond 5 years (many beyond 7) and most of those green drives ran 24x7 for 5-7 years! Some of them were ultimately retired because they were too small, so after DBAN, I recycled them.
 

SamirD

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The warranty is irrelevant. Most consumer drives will outlast an enterprise warranty and it'd be cheaper to replace your consumer drive every 2 or 3 years than to buy an enterprise drive, so why bother? You'd be better off buying a second drive to back up to.
Look, if you're running a server farm, I get it. If you're the kinda person who thinks, "Ooh extended warranty," then OK, but as a matter of practical use, an enterprise drive in the home is almost always a waste of money. I just bought 8TB drives 2 years ago. They're already 1/2 the highest capacity drives. I will almost certainly be moving to 16TB drives before a single drive dies, just like I moved to 8TB drives before a single 4TB drive died.

With the exception of 2 maxtor drives (one was a warranty replacement for the first), all my drives have lasted well beyond warranty or beyond their useful life. As I said above, I had a lot of WD Green drives and those that died all lasted beyond 5 years (many beyond 7) and most of those green drives ran 24x7 for 5-7 years! Some of them were ultimately retired because they were too small, so after DBAN, I recycled them.
I think warranty is completely relevant for gauging reliability. I have older consumer and enterprise drives and the enterprise ones usually get at least 2-3 more years than consumer before having a bad cdi, so I don't know where you are getting your info from.

From a financial standpoint, you can always upgrade before a warranty runs out with the changes in storage going on right now, but that's irrelevant when it comes to inherit drive reliability and data loss.

Personal 'luck' with drives doesn't translate to statistical experience. Enterprise class drives are simply designed to last in ways consumer drives aren't. Doesn't meant the consumer ones can't in ideal situations, but that doesn't mean they will. Enterprise ones are designed for it and have the warranty to back it up. If that's not worth it you, then fine, but that doesn't change the facts.
 

nilepez

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I think warranty is completely relevant for gauging reliability. I have older consumer and enterprise drives and the enterprise ones usually get at least 2-3 more years than consumer before having a bad cdi, so I don't know where you are getting your info from.

From a financial standpoint, you can always upgrade before a warranty runs out with the changes in storage going on right now, but that's irrelevant when it comes to inherit drive reliability and data loss.

Personal 'luck' with drives doesn't translate to statistical experience. Enterprise class drives are simply designed to last in ways consumer drives aren't. Doesn't meant the consumer ones can't in ideal situations, but that doesn't mean they will. Enterprise ones are designed for it and have the warranty to back it up. If that's not worth it you, then fine, but that doesn't change the facts.
An extra 2-3 years with an HD that's less than 1/2 the size of a new consumer drive is meaningless. 80% of drives will survive at least 4 years and about half more than 6. It is cheaper to just backup and buy a replacement hard drive every 3 or 4 years. And if you're running RAID, then you'll just swap in a new drive, and rebuild, if a drive dies prematurely.

Again, maybe you run some unusual setup. For virtually all home use, there's no reason to pay for an enterprise drive, much less an enterprise drive array.
 

SamirD

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An extra 2-3 years with an HD that's less than 1/2 the size of a new consumer drive is meaningless. 80% of drives will survive at least 4 years and about half more than 6. It is cheaper to just backup and buy a replacement hard drive every 3 or 4 years. And if you're running RAID, then you'll just swap in a new drive, and rebuild, if a drive dies prematurely.

Again, maybe you run some unusual setup. For virtually all home use, there's no reason to pay for an enterprise drive, much less an enterprise drive array.
I don't think you've run a multi-drive setup before, nor follow any of the standard practices for data management. Other drives dying during a rebuild is a large source of lost data, especially if you're using anything other than raid1 as some sort of redundancy. Swapping out drives and copying a lot of data takes time during which you can have a drive failure. I don't think you see that swapping out a drive has a huge cost in terms of time and effort as it actually does.

If there was no reason for an enterprise drive array at home, there wouldn't be such a large market for NAS units in the home.
 

nilepez

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I don't think you've run a multi-drive setup before, nor follow any of the standard practices for data management. Other drives dying during a rebuild is a large source of lost data, especially if you're using anything other than raid1 as some sort of redundancy. Swapping out drives and copying a lot of data takes time during which you can have a drive failure. I don't think you see that swapping out a drive has a huge cost in terms of time and effort as it actually does.

If there was no reason for an enterprise drive array at home, there wouldn't be such a large market for NAS units in the home.
I run a nas. I've run one for more than 10 years. You don't need enterprise drives for that. End of story. Your arguments are nutty. You're acting like enterprise drives don't die. They do die and you have the EXACT SAME ISSUES when they die. I'm going to start replacing drives, more than likely within 4 years of purchase, because they'll be too small. WTH would I spend 300 bucks for a drive that MIGHT last longer, when I won't be using the drive? Again, I quit using 4TB drives while they were still under a 2 or 3 year warranty.

I don't see a lot of people on H saying that they can't use these in a NAS. Indeed, most people buying these ARE putting these in a NAS. It's the reason people have bought so many of these for their homes.

As for time and effort, it's for my HOME. If it takes 18 hours (just an example) to do it, I don't care. I'll be asleep or at work for more than half the rebuilding process (even if it took 30 hours) And if I was more paranoid, then I could use 2 parity drives instead of one.
I've seen people post about buying 10 or 15 of these drives. It's safe to say most of these drives are going into a NAS or some other RAID array.

Look you like spending more money for piece of mind. OK. Enjoy it. I don't care about it, because history tells me it's a bad investment, not unlike an extended warranty.
 

SamirD

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I run a nas. I've run one for more than 10 years. You don't need enterprise drives for that. End of story. Your arguments are nutty. You're acting like enterprise drives don't die. They do die and you have the EXACT SAME ISSUES when they die. I'm going to start replacing drives, more than likely within 4 years of purchase, because they'll be too small. WTH would I spend 300 bucks for a drive that MIGHT last longer, when I won't be using the drive? Again, I quit using 4TB drives while they were still under a 2 or 3 year warranty.

I don't see a lot of people on H saying that they can't use these in a NAS. Indeed, most people buying these ARE putting these in a NAS. It's the reason people have bought so many of these for their homes.

As for time and effort, it's for my HOME. If it takes 18 hours (just an example) to do it, I don't care. I'll be asleep or at work for more than half the rebuilding process (even if it took 30 hours) And if I was more paranoid, then I could use 2 parity drives instead of one.
I've seen people post about buying 10 or 15 of these drives. It's safe to say most of these drives are going into a NAS or some other RAID array.

Look you like spending more money for piece of mind. OK. Enjoy it. I don't care about it, because history tells me it's a bad investment, not unlike an extended warranty.
I've been running drives for decades now and know the difference. Obviously you don't and think you idiotic ideas are facts when they're not. That's actually the end of story right there. Your experience doesn't change design dynamics, specifications, or anything else.

Duh, every drive dies and almost everyone knows that--the question is when. Some drives are made for longer lifespans and others are not. Back in the day there wasn't this differentiation between consumer and enterprise class stuff because there wasn't a market of consumers that would accept reliability tradeoffs for price. When the 'home' computer market was born, all the crap components started their life and that lineage still continues. The funny thing is that the only reason quality has come back around is that high performance gaming systems need almost the same reliability as enterprise systems, so the same components are used with a different marketing twist. Where do you think the Velociraptor and other 10k/15k drives originated from? From the Seagate Cheetah drives that were top-of-the-line enterprise drives.

So replace your drives, and replace them often. That's not the route I'm going after seeing the effects of cheaper drives, especially when reliability counts, and I don't need larger drives since my storage requirements aren't increasing at the rate that drive sizes are. If your are, great for you, swap out your drives often and move on.

The reason sth did an article on the shucked drives is exactly for the reason you mentioned--use in a nas. And the results were clear that the shucked drives, while similar to the red nas drives, are not the same thing. And the comments in that article and on the forum of that site confirm that these drives may be great, but can also have issues when used even in normal 'consumer' nas units like the Synologies. If you don't want to listen to others' experience, that's fine, but don't ask everyone to drive off the same bridge.

Great for you that 18hrs doesn't matter to you, and great for you if you foolishly want to think that 2 parity drives will save a raid. :rolleyes: Might want to do some research on why raid5/6 isn't a great idea with modern drive sizes before you lose it all during a rebuild while you're away at work.

You seem to think the drives cost more just for the warranty and that they're identical otherwise. I've held both a 10TB easy store and a 14TB HGST enterprise--the weight alone tells me there's a big difference in these drives besides the platters. If you think otherwise, then that's your opinion and good luck to you.

Shucked drives do have their place in terms of application and value, just as they do as the externals they are. But at no point are they designed to the same level of reliability over their lifetime as an enterprise drive of the same size. You can't even get an MTBF rating on a consumer drive. :cautious:
 

westrock2000

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Well I started my first ZFS setup during the summer of 1932.....and it was only 3TB total, if you can believe that. Still have one of the drives in current use actually.
 
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