• Some users have recently had their accounts hijacked. It seems that the now defunct EVGA forums might have compromised your password there and seems many are using the same PW here. We would suggest you UPDATE YOUR PASSWORD and TURN ON 2FA for your account here to further secure it. None of the compromised accounts had 2FA turned on.
    Once you have enabled 2FA, your account will be updated soon to show a badge, letting other members know that you use 2FA to protect your account. This should be beneficial for everyone that uses FSFT.

$800 Gaming Build

X

xavierq

Gawd
Joined
Jul 27, 2000
Messages
562
1) What will you be doing with this PC? Gaming? Photoshop? Web browsing? etc
Gaming

2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included?
$800 before tax and shipping

3) Which country do you live in? If the U.S, please tell us the state and city if possible.
USA, Cary, NC

4) What exact parts do you need for that budget? CPU, RAM, case, etc. The word "Everything" is not a valid answer. Please list out all the parts you'll need.
Video card, cpu, ram, case, power supply, motherboard

5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Please be especially specific about the power supply. List make and model.
single 120GB SSD

6) Will you be overclocking?
not a priority; yes if possible after a stock build is complete

7) What is the max resolution of your monitor? What size is it?
1080p, 20 inch. (can be upgraded - separate from PC build budget)

8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?
asap

9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? USB 3.0? SATA 6Gb/s? eSATA? Onboard video (as a backup or main GPU)? UEFI? etc.
VM, USB 3.0, SATA 6Gb/s, UEFI - would like to not miss out on future boot features

10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? If yes, what OS? Is it 32bit or 64bit?
no - Would like Windows 7 home premium 64bit
 
Save money on CPU get dual core intel unlocked proc G3258K, and def get Win 7 prof not home prem.
 
http://valid.x86.fr/pqgxxc
CPU
Intel Pentium G3258 @4.4
RAM
8.00GB Dual-Channel DDR3 @ 1064MHz (11-11-11-31) CMY8GX3M2A2133C11
Motherboard
Gigabyte Technology Co., Ltd. Z87X-UD4H-CF (SOCKET 0)
Graphics
2048MB ATI AMD Radeon R9 200 Series (MSI) 32 °C
Storage
931GB Western Digital WDC WD10EZEX-00BN5A0 SCSI Disk Device (SATA)
Optical Drives
HL-DT-ST DVDRAM GH24NSB0 SCSI CdRom Device
PSU
Corsair CX600M

The GPU i salvaged from another computer but if you have a microcenter near you i suggest buying a clearance GPU and even scoping out their mobo section. But this is basically my 700-800 build.
 
he can upgrade CPU later, same socket, save money on CPU now to get better base hardware, then dump the money on that later. I use i5 and this proc and both computers are FAST.
 
There are games out now, like the new Dragon Age, that WILL NOT LET YOU OPEN THE GAME with a dual core cpu - you must have 4 cores (an i3 with HT passes), so the G3258 really doesn't seem like a great idea in 2015.

For $800 if all you do is game you should be shooting for an i3, a midrange motherboard, and as much video card as you can afford.

I would do:

Intel i3-4170 ~$115
MSI or Biostar H81M motherboard ~$40-45
8GB DDR3 - $50

You can get a new Samsung 850 EVO 250gb SSD for under $100 or you can use yours and get a regular hard drive.

MSI GTX 970 Gaming 4g card - ~$320
Any inexpensive midtower case $40-50
Corsair CX600 ~$45
Windows 7 Home ~$90 online

That's right around $800. You can get a Z97 motherboard, an i5, and a fancy cooler if you want with a much cheaper video card - but that setup will be way slower in just about any game.
 
Last edited:
Dude you previously recommended a g3258. But don't recommend an i3 because of too little cache? Wait. What?
 
Am I gimping myself by setting the limit at $800? I know that more money always means better system, but is this a situation where I'd see a massive increase in performance for a few dollars more?
 
Here's an i5 build. Features some MIR's though.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-4460 3.2GHz Quad-Core Processor ($176.95 @ SuperBiiz)
Motherboard: ASRock Z97M Pro4 Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($76.98 @ Newegg)
Memory: A-Data XPG V1.0 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($42.99 @ Newegg)
Video Card: MSI GeForce GTX 970 4GB Video Card ($316.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Case: Cooler Master N200 MicroATX Mid Tower Case ($39.99 @ NCIX US)
Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA NEX 650W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($64.99 @ NCIX US)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 OEM (64-bit) ($86.75 @ OutletPC)
Total: $805.64
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-07-13 18:13 EDT-0400

Oh, and SuperBiz is charging 8$ shipping on the CPU... at that rate might as well get one higher up that you bought from somewhere else. =_=; Should probably also just buy the case from Amazon because IDK how much NCIX is charging for shipping...
 
Last edited:
I believe that your budget should start at around $1000 for a good gaming build.

StoleMyOwnCar gave you a good starting point, but if you want better options (like the ability to overclock), and before you factor in rebates, you'd probably spend a bit more than $800. (How much more depends on what you really want and what you're willing to give up.)
 
I could spend more if it's justified. The system StoleMyOwnCar lists has an i5 and a GTX 970, which seem decent. What am I losing to have both of those and stay under $800? If I said I'd go to $1,000, for example, what would get added or upgraded? Generally--I'm not asking to rework the whole thing at $1,000 just for my curiosity. If you tell me "oh, you'll get X and Y, which will let you do this cool thing" then I may say I can justify additional cost. If the things are things I don't think I'd care about, I won't waste anyone's time trying to spec out a build I'm not going to do.
 
xavierq said:
I could spend more if it's justified. The system StoleMyOwnCar lists has an i5 and a GTX 970, which seem decent. What am I losing to have both of those and stay under $800? If I said I'd go to $1,000, for example, what would get added or upgraded? Generally--I'm not asking to rework the whole thing at $1,000 just for my curiosity. If you tell me "oh, you'll get X and Y, which will let you do this cool thing" then I may say I can justify additional cost. If the things are things I don't think I'd care about, I won't waste anyone's time trying to spec out a build I'm not going to do.
Click to expand...

Here are my thoughts on StoleMyOwnCar's build if you're willing to spend $1000 instead of $800:

1. Instead of the 4460, get the 4590 for an extra 20ish bucks
2. replace that 4x2 ram set with a single 8gb stick (leaves more room to upgrade later)
3. get an EVGA 970 ACX 2.0+ instead of the MSI card
3. get a full ATX mid tower case (even if you have a mATX board, more room is always a plus)

I'd also wait for advice from some of the regular in regards to a power supply (Dangman for sure, tiraides and Skillz also know whats up). The one StoleMyOwnCar recommended isn't bad at all. But, I'd feel more comfortable purchasing if at least another person "in-the-know" would second said recommendation etc.
 
Dangman has helped me out with probably a half dozen builds over the years, I definitely respect his opinion. Not to take away from any of the help I've gotten so far in this thread. It's already given me a lot to think about.
 
What model SSD is that?

How many different games do you play? If this is strictly a gaming rig then a 120G HDD wont hold that many games at once depending on the games.

Are you going to upgrade the monitor? If so, what resolution do you intend to go with? If you're gonna stick to 1080P then it wont matter what size you go with, but if you're increasing the resolution then that could potentially change things. When will this upgrade take place?
 
I just chose that PSU because:
1. It's pretty cheap considering it earns a Pass on the harsh HardOCP's own tests (only with a mail in rebate though)
2. Add to the above, gold efficiency (doesn't mean that much) and fully modular. Spend a bit more and there are Seasonics and whatnot though. But they're a bit more; without rebates things can change though.

Those items in that post are kind of like a skeleton really. They can be swapped around as long as they stay within the relative price range, depending on preference. It was just kind of a proof of concept that I put together in 10-15 mins since most people here were shoving i3's and Pentiums down his throat. By the way neither of those will play modern games. Not with the 4 physical core requirement (i3 HT is iffy). If doing Intel, it's i5/7 or bust. A locked i5 (no overclocking) and a 970 GTX actually comes pretty much perfectly inside his price range (frankly, there are no good deals on a 970 atm, which made it hard). But this is all easily modified. For instance on the MB you'd probably prefer one with more PCIE ports instead of 2 useless PCI ports.
 
Last edited:
Right now I'm looking at playing things like Elite Dangerous or Star Citizen (when it comes out). I may want to go with a three monitor setup for that, though probably not at first.

I'm looking to build asap. So once I've nailed down exactly what I'm building, I'll start acquiring parts.

Definitely want i5 or i7, and I was already looking at the GTX 970 before I posted. Better MB and case is definitely nicer. I haven't taken a close look at the MB listed here to see if I want anything it doesn't have or not yet.
 
So here's what I recommend since you seem willing to go above your $800 budget:
$189 - Intel Core i5-4460 CPU
$82 - ASRock H97M Pro4 Intel H97 mATX Motherboard
$80 - G.Skill 2 x 8GB DDR3 1600 RAM
$325 - eVGA 04G-P4-2974-KR GTX 970 4GB PCI-E Video Card
$66 - XFX TS Series 550W PSU
$70 - Corsair Graphite Series 230T Black ATX Case
$96 - Windows 8.1 64bit
----
Total: $908 shipped

Key differences between what I recommended and what StoleMyOwnCar listed:
1) I never factor in MIR until they're actually in your hands. Until then, there's always a chance that you may not get that MIR. In addition, I generally factor in shipping costs whenever possible. Hence why I tend to find free shipping as much as possible. As such, that $908 price tag is a more accurate representation of the money you're actually going to spend on the PC.

2) I went with the H97M Pro4 since it has a longer more reputable track record and is slightly cheaper. Your budget isn't enough for an overclock capable Core i5 setup so no real reason to go for a Z97 motherboard just because it's overclock capable.

3) Since you're planning on playing Star Citizen, you're really really going to want to get 16GB of RAM minimum for that game. That's one of the better deals for RAM at the moment. It ends today. So buy it ASAP.

4) As noted earlier, I don't factor in MIR. As such a lot MSI GTX 970 cards costs more than their eVGA counterparts. Hence why I went with eVGA instead: Cheaper and potentially better customer support

5) Again, as noted earlier, I don't factor in MIR. While yes that eVGA PSU did pass testing, at either $85 before rebate price or its $65 after rebate price, there are better choices for the money. At the $65 price point, that XFX PSU is the better choice since it provides slightly better performance and quality while requiring no rebate whatsoever. You do lose out on Gold and full modular but neither of those two alone are worth justifying getting that eVGA PSU. You can find out why Gold doesn't really matter here:
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2011/10/04/80_plus_irrelevant_to_you_when_buying_psu/#.VacN1flViko

As long as you have a good case or you're not building inside a really cramped mITX case, the benefits of full modular and/or modular PSUs aren't quite as apparent as you may think. Speaking of case...

6) With your increased budget, I went with a larger, roomier, better built, and slightly better cooling case.

7) Honestly, unless you have software that absolutely needs Windows 7, go Windows 8.1. There are plenty of add-ons or programs out there that'll get you the same general look as previous Windows incarnations. With that UI issue over, there are plenty of under-the-hood performance improvements, especially for SSDs, that makes Windows 8.1 worth buying.
 
Last edited:
As an Amazon Associate, HardForum may earn from qualifying purchases.
I reused my case, keyboard, mouse, WDC 1TB HDD, BDROM drive, DVD-RW drive, and monitor

AMD Radeon r9 280 3GB DDR5 for $180-20 MIR
AMD i5 4690K $215
Rosewill 650W PSU $70
PNY 16GB $99
GA-B85M-D3H $80
Crucial MX100 256GB $112
5Pack SATA cables $9

Total $765 + $100 for Windows

the extra 65 is worth it. (45 if you subtract MIR)
 
Last edited:
Dangman said:
As long as you have a good case or you're not building inside a really cramped mITX case, the benefits of full modular and/or modular PSUs aren't quite as apparent as you may think. Speaking of case...

6) With your increased budget, I went with a larger, roomier, better built, and slightly better cooling case.
Click to expand...

I'm fine with most of that, since like I said that build was just a skeleton proof of concept anyway, but this part kind of bugs me. You said that it's a slightly better cooling case. However, it has no fan slot near the GPU like the cheaper one I linked does. Even with stock cooling, two fans slots right beside the CPU is plenty. But the GPU can be another story. Not having any exhaust/intake directly beside it can be really bad, especially for aftermarket GPU's. I can't tell if it has fan slots beside the PSU but even if it does wire management can get messy when you do that. I struggled to cool an SLI aftermarket setup in a Fractal Design R4 and I can tell you that if I had no GPU fan slot it would have been impossible, not just hard (well it's SLI though). If he wants better cooling, I'd at least choose one with a side fan slot (for max GPU overclocking, too). You're already breaking the budget.



Also, the motherboard. I agree with H97 being fine (I chose that one because it was cheap), but if you're going to go that route, I'd go for something like this:
http://pcpartpicker.com/part/msi-motherboard-h97mg43
Because PCI slots are useless these days IMO.

As for MIRs well... we've had that talk before. It's up to the user to make the risk assessment. You just have to do rough calculation of the odds of the manufacturer honoring the MIR and determine their reliability for themselves. Just a Bayesian decision tree.
 
Don't think the OP is doing multi GPU setups. Also the Corsair case comes with more fans to move air. In my experience I've found those "side panel" fans to be useless. I don't even use them on my setup.
 
You find them useless? It's a way to direct airflow literally right beside your GPU. I don't see how that could be useless in any scenario, even a single card setup.
 
StoleMyOwnCar said:
I'm fine with most of that, since like I said that build was just a skeleton proof of concept anyway, but this part kind of bugs me. You said that it's a slightly better cooling case. However, it has no fan slot near the GPU like the cheaper one I linked does. Even with stock cooling, two fans slots right beside the CPU is plenty. But the GPU can be another story. Not having any exhaust/intake directly beside it can be really bad, especially for aftermarket GPU's. I can't tell if it has fan slots beside the PSU but even if it does wire management can get messy when you do that. I struggled to cool an SLI aftermarket setup in a Fractal Design R4 and I can tell you that if I had no GPU fan slot it would have been impossible, not just hard (well it's SLI though). If he wants better cooling, I'd at least choose one with a side fan slot (for max GPU overclocking, too). You're already breaking the budget.
Click to expand...

StoleMyOwnCar said:
You find them useless? It's a way to direct airflow literally right beside your GPU. I don't see how that could be useless in any scenario, even a single card setup.
Click to expand...
I don't find side fans useless but I also don't find them as the must-have feature on a case for the most part. It largely depends on the case itself and the planned parts. In your situation, yes you absolutely needed a side fan since you decide to go do a SLI setup in a case that was poorly optimized for cooling/SLI setups as it was optimized for low noise. In my situation, I'm not using a side fan on my NZXT Phantom case but my R9 280X and R9 280 cards are still getting a decent amount of airflow as my case wasn't optimized for low noise like the Fractal Design. We can more than likely agree that my AMD cards are generating more heat than your Nvidia cards. In other words, if the case's priority is more cooling, that would make up for the lack of a side fan.

With that said, I said better cooling mainly because the 230T includes a 3rd 120mm fan. That alone improves the cooling of the 230T over the N200. In addition, that 3rd fan is placed right in front of the HDD tray giving you peace of mind in regards to HDD temps. In addition, in general, in a system with four or more fans, you're better off doing the traditional front to back airflow setup as much as possible as the side fan interrupts that airflow with that many fans.

Since you brought up cable management, the 230T has more room in the back of the motherboard try and therefore can do a better job of cable management than the N200. I generally never use the bottom fan slot in front of the PSU in ANY case however. That's the one fan spot I find totally useless.

I did break the budget but not so badly that he can't afford a significantly larger SSD with that newer $1000 budget. I'd rather give him the option of getting a larger SSD than a case with a side fan that may or may not be all that beneficial.
StoleMyOwnCar said:
Also, the motherboard. I agree with H97 being fine (I chose that one because it was cheap), but if you're going to go that route, I'd go for something like this:
http://pcpartpicker.com/part/msi-motherboard-h97mg43
Because PCI slots are useless these days IMO.
Click to expand...
While I agree that PCI slots are indeed useless these days, in this specific situation, I don't see a good reason to spend an extra $10 just to avoid PCI slots. The PCI-E x1 slots on that MSI mobo is arranged exactly like the PCI slots on the AsRock motherboard. Since this is a gaming PC, that first PCI-E x1 slot is effectively useless on account of the video card. If you do find yourself in a situation where you must add-in another PCI-E device, you're not going to put it directly underneath the video card in the second PCI-E x1 slot less it might interfere with the cooling of the GPU. So for all intents and purposes, the usefulness of the PCI-E x1 slots on that MSI motherboard is the same as the AsRock. Considering that the AsRock is $10 cheaper and is far far more reputable, I'm not seeing a good reason to go with that MSI.
StoleMyOwnCar said:
As for MIRs well... we've had that talk before. It's up to the user to make the risk assessment. You just have to do rough calculation of the odds of the manufacturer honoring the MIR and determine their reliability for themselves. Just a Bayesian decision tree.
Click to expand...
A lot of people don't do that risk assessment.
 
Last edited:
StoleMyOwnCar said:
You find them useless? It's a way to direct airflow literally right beside your GPU. I don't see how that could be useless in any scenario, even a single card setup.
Click to expand...

Depends on the case, but I had a two side fans on my CM 690 II Advanced case across multiple different GPU setups and non of them cooled any better than having a front > back/top cooling setup.
 
I'm not sticking my guns to that case I linked; I could care less if it's that exact one. Just kind of iffy on the one you picked to replace it. To me even if it's a few degrees on the GPU, that just means you could overclock it more with a fan near it. But it's kind of a threshold type thing, probably. Not having any is fine to a point, but if you find yourself wanting it and it's not there... I mean is this any cheaper than a comparable one with side slots?

Dangman said:
While I agree that PCI slots are indeed useless these days, in this specific situation, I don't see a good reason to spend an extra $10 just to avoid PCI slots. The PCI-E x1 slots on that MSI mobo is arranged exactly like the PCI slots on the AsRock motherboard. Since this is a gaming PC, that first PCI-E x1 slot is effectively useless on account of the video card. If you do find yourself in a situation where you must add-in another PCI-E device, you're not going to put it directly underneath the video card in the second PCI-E x1 slot less it might interfere with the cooling of the GPU. So for all intents and purposes, the usefulness of the PCI-E x1 slots on that MSI motherboard is the same as the AsRock. Considering that the AsRock is $10 cheaper and is far far more reputable, I'm not seeing a good reason to go with that MSI.
Click to expand...

Actually, putting something in the PCIE slot(s) directly below the GPU isn't as bad as you think, probably even without a side fan. Because fresh air would just blow in right below the GPU and in between it and the PCIE device, which is by the way generating practically no heat. It's a trivial difference in cooling as long as the case has good airflow. That, and a lot of PCIE devices are very, very short. They take up maybe 1/3rd or 1/4th of the modern GPU's entire length. They don't obstruct much airflow. Actually they don't obstruct any when it comes to a stock cooling solution since the fan is long past the PCIE device (I have a wireless card in my secondary comp and that's exactly what happens with the 7870Ghz directly above it). I don't know if he has many plans for PCIE expansion, but it's one of those things where most people might not need it, but you'll be quite sorry you don't have the slots if you do (ie for more USB 3 slots) later on.

A lot of people don't do that risk assessment.
Click to expand...

They kind of do. Just intuitively. Statistics can be really unintuitive though, and you'd have to datamine forums to obtain data for rebate success rates.
 
StoleMyOwnCar said:
I'm not sticking my guns to that case I linked; I could care less if it's that exact one. Just kind of iffy on the one you picked to replace it. To me even if it's a few degrees on the GPU, that just means you could overclock it more with a fan near it. But it's kind of a threshold type thing, probably. Not having any is fine to a point, but if you find yourself wanting it and it's not there... I mean is this any cheaper than a comparable one with side slots?
Click to expand...
As is, the 230T with its extra fan already provides better GPU cooling than the N200 with its two fans. As for whether or not the 230T is actually any cheaper, yes it is as the cheapest bang for the buck case with a side fan slot that's above the 230T that I can recommend is the Antec Eleven Hundred V2 which hovers around $100 to $110. There is the Corsair 300R for $80 but it only comes with two 120mm fans and is of slightly lesser quality than the 230T. In addition, even if we ignore the fans, there's the still the issue that $10 gets you the better built and even better cooling Phanteks Enthoo Pro case for $90.


StoleMyOwnCar said:
Actually, putting something in the PCIE slot(s) directly below the GPU isn't as bad as you think, probably even without a side fan. Because fresh air would just blow in right below the GPU and in between it and the PCIE device, which is by the way generating practically no heat. It's a trivial difference in cooling as long as the case has good airflow. That, and a lot of PCIE devices are very, very short. They take up maybe 1/3rd or 1/4th of the modern GPU's entire length. They don't obstruct much airflow. Actually they don't obstruct any when it comes to a stock cooling solution since the fan is long past the PCIE device (I have a wireless card in my secondary comp and that's exactly what happens with the 7870Ghz directly above it). I don't know if he has many plans for PCIE expansion, but it's one of those things where most people might not need it, but you'll be quite sorry you don't have the slots if you do (ie for more USB 3 slots) later on.
Click to expand...
But many of the cards we do recommend around here aren't using the stock reference design, some of which can extend a tad into the 3rd slot. So there is a bit of an obstruction of airflow of sorts in those situations. In any case, the "it's one of those things where most people might not need it, but you'll be quite sorry you don't have the slots if you do (ie for more USB 3 slots) later on" reason isn't strong enough to counter the fact that the AsRock has a longer longer track record compared to the MSI. Since there is more information showing that the AsROck is a reliable motherboard, I believe people would have a more confirmed reliable motherboard than extra features they may or may not need or use.
StoleMyOwnCar said:
They kind of do. Just intuitively.
Click to expand...
Then they don't do it very well.
 
They don't have many reviews each either way. The AsROCK just has more reviews, but I wouldn't necessarily call that a reason to grab it over the other. Probably because it was cheaper or something, I don't know. I have two MSI motherboards and they work fine. One of them's off Ebay, it's an LGA 1156. Other's a Z87 MSI MPower. This board doesn't look like it sold much, which baffles me considering it's a fairly well priced board with two GPU slots and plenty of PCIE slots. Looks like some people were having trouble with the integrated GPU with it, but he's not going to have that issue anyway.

To me it's plenty worth it to grab something that has more future expandability, but to each their own, I guess. What about RMA services? I haven't heard much about ASRock vs MSI. I thought MSI was pretty decent as far as the Chinese/whatever corps go.

Bouncing stuff off of you's fun though. I get to learn more about budget cases.
 
StoleMyOwnCar said:
They don't have many reviews each either way. The AsROCK just has more reviews, but I wouldn't necessarily call that a reason to grab it over the other. Probably because it was cheaper or something, I don't know. I have two MSI motherboards and they work fine. One of them's off Ebay, it's an LGA 1156. Other's a Z87 MSI MPower. This board doesn't look like it sold much, which baffles me considering it's a fairly well priced board with two GPU slots and plenty of PCIE slots. Looks like some people were having trouble with the integrated GPU with it, but he's not going to have that issue anyway.

To me it's plenty worth it to grab something that has more future expandability, but to each their own, I guess. What about RMA services? I haven't heard much about ASRock vs MSI. I thought MSI was pretty decent as far as the Chinese/whatever corps go.

Bouncing stuff off of you's fun though. I get to learn more about budget cases.
Click to expand...

The larger number of reviews represents a more accurate picture of that motherboard' mass reliability. Though yes, people mainly grabbed it because it was cheaper: its price fluctuates between $70 and $80. Due to the nature of my job, I've worked with hundreds of AsRock and MSI motherboards. Both are roughly equal to one another IMO in that I've had roughly the same number of good and bad experiences with them inlcuding RMA services. So I'm choosing based on price. Which means AsRock in some cases and MSI in others.

As for the MSI Z87 MPower, it didn't sell as much because it was priced at $190. Around that exact same price point, one could get the better Asus Maximus VI Hero. I've worked with both motherboards and honestly that Maximus VI Hero motherboard was awesome to work with. There's a reason why the Asus Maximus VI Hero got a [H]Gold Award whereas the MSI Z87 MPower only got a [H]Silver Award. Even the Silver award was heavily contested whereas the Gold was an easy win.

Glad to see you're having fun. Yeah, I've gotten a better eye for cases over the past few years as a result of my job. Especially budget ones: I'm now a true believer in getting a more expensive case whenever possible.
 
When I said I was surprised the board didn't sell much, I was talking about the one I linked for him, not my MPower. The MPower board is good but for an enthusiast-ish board I've found it a bit annoying to work with in some areas. At its price, I'm not surprised people didn't buy it. I got it at Microcenter bundled with my 4770k because I wanted 8 sata slots and it simply caught my eye. Not much thought went into the purchase honestly.

But that Micro board I linked for him.. considering its price, I'm quite surprised it didn't sell much...
 
StoleMyOwnCar said:
When I said I was surprised the board didn't sell much, I was talking about the one I linked for him, not my MPower. The MPower board is good but for an enthusiast-ish board I've found it a bit annoying to work with in some areas. At its price, I'm not surprised people didn't buy it. I got it at Microcenter bundled with my 4770k because I wanted 8 sata slots and it simply caught my eye. Not much thought went into the purchase honestly.

But that Micro board I linked for him.. considering its price, I'm quite surprised it didn't sell much...
Click to expand...

I'm not surprised: The AsRock H97 mobo I linked to is cheaper and is functionally equivalent to that MSI motherboard for the vast majority of users out there. In addition, MSI helped kill sales of that motherboard since they have ATX MSI Z97 PC Mate for around the same price. Since people tend to want ATX because it's "bigger" and therefore "better" and that the Z97 allows for cheap overclock, especially with the Pentium G3258 CPU, not a real surprise that MSI H97M-G43 didn't sell in large numbers. Especially if they think "well I'm getting more motherboard for my money" comparing ATX to mATX. If MSI had priced it at $70 to $75, it would have been a home-run.
 
Personally I'd still go for the MSI board, or perhaps a cheaper full ATX board that had more PCIE slots. I'd hate to get a PCIE sound card in the future and then realize that it's pretty much all I could do with the thing as there is pretty much nothing being released on PCI despite manufacturers insisting on shoving them on new boards. This ATX board isn't a bad deal:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...-na-_-na&cm_sp=&AID=10446076&PID=3938566&SID=
Thing is I bought my MPower when it had few reviews, too. There just aren't enough to be statistically significant either way, even with like 70. You're best choosing a merchant that allows easy returns and trying out something that you like feature-wise. That's just my opinion though.

Honestly that's the thing with all of these topics. A lot of this from here on out is going to depend on the OP's personal preference. Objectively it's hard to say if some build that relies on rebates is better than another that doesn't. Same with case preferences. That's up to the OP's preference. It'd be nice if this forum simply had a meta-discussion regarding the whole aspect of superior and inferior parts at various price levels. Once good parts of all sorts are found at various price points--supposing that one of these sites such as PC Parts Picker (or Hoverhound I guess?) has an API to directly compare prices of each components from various manufacturers--it's not actually that difficult to develop an iterative, automated process to generate several builds within a price range. Frankly, I could code it without too much issue.

PC Parts Picker technically has meta-builds such as that implemented. I've created a few auto-generated lists like this:
https://pcpartpicker.com/user/xshadowinxbc/saved/#view=RtWypg
https://pcpartpicker.com/user/xshadowinxbc/saved/#view=nFyV3C
(these are old, excuse the filter choices)
But obviously they don't go quite far enough. I can't really control curation of included parts unless I get extremely meticulous in the selection process, and the selection criteria that I can pick aren't selective enough. Truly choosing working computers would require more sophisticated scripting than is used for these. For instance, one aspect is that they always prioritize lowest price out of your selection criteria. That doesn't really work for RAM and SSD's, though. For RAM and SSD's ideally you choose the lowest $/GB that would fit within your budget while coming from a reliable brand. Their selectors can handle the very last part of that criteria, but not the any of the former part.

Has there ever been a meta-discussion on these boards regarding generalized selection patterns for various budget levels? I think it's fully possible. I'm not saying these kind of topics have no place, but I don't think every build needs a debate every time when it's not that hard to create a working set of parts. It would need a lot of community involvement and voting, though.
 
StoleMyOwnCar said:
Honestly that's the thing with all of these topics. A lot of this from here on out is going to depend on the OP's personal preference. Objectively it's hard to say if some build that relies on rebates is better than another that doesn't. Same with case preferences. That's up to the OP's preference.
Click to expand...
That's precisely why I rather have these threads in the first place: Every OP's preferences and situations are different and so require a bit more tailored solutions. Combined with the rapidly pricing volatility of computer hardware parts, it's just simpler to have these individual topics.

StoleMyOwnCar said:
It'd be nice if this forum simply had a meta-discussion regarding the whole aspect of superior and inferior parts at various price levels. Once good parts of all sorts are found at various price points--supposing that one of these sites such as PC Parts Picker (or Hoverhound I guess?) has an API to directly compare prices of each components from various manufacturers--it's not actually that difficult to develop an iterative, automated process to generate several builds within a price range. Frankly, I could code it without too much issue.

....

Has there ever been a meta-discussion on these boards regarding generalized selection patterns for various budget levels? I think it's fully possible. I'm not saying these kind of topics have no place, but I don't think every build needs a debate every time when it's not that hard to create a working set of parts. It would need a lot of community involvement and voting, though.
Click to expand...
Yes there have been discussions like that before. There have also been requests for a stickied forum thread that has a list of recommended parts. Unfortunately such discussions and requests ends the same way: Nowhere. The problem is that there will always be people, whether wrong or right, that'll recommend against or for a part that the majority have decided on. There's been situations where the majority were wrong but the minority was right. For myself personally, usually every time a tech website comes out with a "recommended $800 gaming PC" or similar, I can always find something to disagree with the article writers on. In addition, there's not quite enough "neutral" computer hardware admirers to maintain a voting balance between the multiple hardcore supporters of certain hardware. Also, yes it seems sad that a debate has to happen in so many threads but that's just the nature of computer hardware enthusiasts, as long we believe we're right, we're going to keep fighting.

There's also the issue many computer hardware enthusiasts, including myself, are clearly not that well-informed about some aspects of computer hardware. Do you really want uninformed users to vote? NOt to mention differing standards: I've always thought my standards for computer hardware amounted to "don't be shit for the money" but to some people, those standards are Harvard level high. Or to others that sees those same standards as "too low":.

So even if you developed a super sophisticated algorithm that can actually do what I do (pick and recommend good computer parts with relative ease), you're going to have at least two people coming in and saying "that's a bullshit algorithm because it chose the other side" or what have you. Despite numerous articles and reviews, we're still seeing similar AMD VS Intel CPU discussions over the past four years. Or how many enthusiasts on this forum believe that super high-speed RAM is beneficial to their Intel platforms. Or the MIR discussion we have had. You're not the first [H]Member I've had long discussions about factoring in MIR in my nearly ten years here on the forums.

As such, a meta discussion would end up being hundreds of pages long while not being any where close to the 75% to 80% good enough solution.
 
Last edited:
Dangman said:
Combined with the rapidly pricing volatility of computer hardware parts, it's just simpler to have these individual topics.
Click to expand...
Well you mixed up the word order in that bolded part a bit, but I get what you mean... and... Actually that's exactly why I'd prefer there was an algorithm. The community should thank you for your tireless involvement, but there is no human as fast as an algorithm that takes current data. Pricing changes day to day sometimes, and I have lost count of the times I put together an unbelievably low priced build only to have it spike the next day because the user didn't pick it up. It's kind of sad. The thing is, something that spits out a list of possible whole builds allows users to choose what exactly they want.

As such, a meta discussion would end up being hundreds of pages long while not being any where close to the 75% to 80% good enough solution.
Click to expand...


I think they may have gotten the method of curation incorrect. Of course there isn't going to be any one opinion that everyone agrees on for an entire build. Especially in today's era, humans are generally individualistic as a matter of course. It's a valued trait (albeit somewhat paradoxically with how society works. That being said, fact of the matter is there are experts out there.

You are very particular about cases and PSU's for instance. I don't think it would be that difficult to find people like you that know their stuff in a specific area to generate a list of recommended parts and list generalized one-word pro's and con's (kind of like tags, basically). From this, you can build out a bit of network of curated parts in each category. Then, when a person puts in a budget, it wouldn't be too hard to spit out a list of possible builds depending on priorities (and to also give certain priorities more weight). Weights on certain components will for each tag would be higher depending on how many people agree with certain aspects. This setup kind of takes a knowledgeable voterbase. The layout would go well into a graph DB like Neo4J, I think.

Afterwards, you could at least have a list of several possible setups depending on a user's own priorities. Frankly I'm surprised a system such as this hasn't been set up already somewhere (probably takes too much work). I've seen plenty of similar networks in place everywhere else. Consider music services like Pandora. They're essentially tagging tracks with various aspects and using it to predict what you would like if you listened to this or that. Somewhat similar concept with parts. Frankly many parts don't even really change much. GPU's for instance are essentially... what's the manufacturer, what's the base clock/bin, and what's the color of it (in case someone cares about matching colors). CPU's? As long as it's an i5, it'll generally work in any gaming build, so just pick the cheapest i5 available or give them an i7 if they care enough and there is leeway. Or for AMD there are probably similar paths. RAM? Pick some trusted brand that's the cheapest. SSD? Good brand at the best $/GB ratio that fits in the budget... or spend a little more and downgrade something else. Most variation is in the motherboard, case, and PSU.


I think I should probably stop here though. This is a dude's parts picking topic and this isn't the right place for this. It's getting off-track. Sorry.
 
Last edited:
StoleMyOwnCar said:
Well you mixed up the word order in that bolded part a bit, but I get what you mean... and... Actually that's exactly why I'd prefer there was an algorithm. The community should thank you for your tireless involvement, but there is no human as fast as an algorithm that takes current data. Pricing changes day to day sometimes, and I have lost count of the times I put together an unbelievably low priced build only to have it spike the next day because the user didn't pick it up. It's kind of sad. The thing is, something that spits out a list of possible whole builds allows users to choose what exactly they want.
Click to expand...
You are right that an algorithm should be faster than a human when it comes to keeping track of pricing data. But that's not often the case. Due to relatively limited available bandwidth, services/sites like PCHound and PCPartpicker can only query pricing data once a day or a tad more than that. Depending on my free time, I could easily update the pricing on parts multiple times in a day.

As for users choosing exactly what they want, there lies the problem. From my time here in the forums and at my job, users/customers are still very capable of choosing some very less than optimal parts even after multiple hours/pages of advice on what not to get. They'll have pre-conceived notions or listen to bad/incomplete advices from others which will then cause them to override any good recommendation easily.

At least in a thread, I can explain why their choices weren't good.

StoleMyOwnCar said:
I think they may have gotten the method of curation incorrect. Of course there isn't going to be any one opinion that everyone agrees on for an entire build. Especially in today's era, humans are generally individualistic as a matter of course. It's a valued trait (albeit somewhat paradoxically with how society works. That being said, fact of the matter is there are experts out there.

You are very particular about cases and PSU's for instance. I don't think it would be that difficult to find people like you that know their stuff in a specific area to generate a list of recommended parts and list generalized one-word pro's and con's (kind of like tags, basically). From this, you can build out a bit of network of curated parts in each category. Then, when a person puts in a budget, it wouldn't be too hard to spit out a list of possible builds depending on priorities (and to also give certain priorities more weight). Weights on certain components will for each tag would be higher depending on how many people agree with certain aspects. This setup kind of takes a knowledgeable voterbase. The layout would go well into a graph DB like Neo4J, I think.
Click to expand...
The problem is that even experts disagree greatly. I've seen some pretty knowledgeable people here on the forums that really know their shit when it comes to CPUs, GPUs, and occasionally RAM. However many of those people actually disagree with one another due to differing metrics and/or used source/references. At least with PSUs it's a bit easier: All you have to do is find a proper PSU review of the PSU in question to either back up your recommendation or destroy the other guy's recommendation.


StoleMyOwnCar said:
Afterwards, you could at least have a list of several possible setups depending on a user's own priorities. Frankly I'm surprised a system such as this hasn't been set up already somewhere (probably takes too much work). I've seen plenty of similar networks in place everywhere else. Consider music services like Pandora. They're essentially tagging tracks with various aspects and using it to predict what you would like if you listened to this or that. Somewhat similar concept with parts. Frankly many parts don't even really change much. GPU's for instance are essentially... what's the manufacturer, what's the base clock/bin, and what's the color of it (in case someone cares about matching colors). CPU's? As long as it's an i5, it'll generally work in any gaming build, so just pick the cheapest i5 available or give them an i7 if they care enough and there is leeway. Or for AMD there are probably similar paths. RAM? Pick some trusted brand that's the cheapest. SSD? Good brand at the best $/GB ratio that fits in the budget... or spend a little more and downgrade something else. Most variation is in the motherboard, case, and PSU.
Click to expand...
Such a system does take a lot of work. However, there's a lot more nuances and factors that you're forgetting about like warranty, customer support level, planned use, etc which makes such a system more difficult then believed. With music, you judge music based on its musical value/quality and not its financials. With computer hardware, you have to factor in price, warranty, and customer support quality as well.
I think I should probably stop here though. This is a dude's parts picking topic and this isn't the right place for this. It's getting off-track. Sorry.[/QUOTE]

I'm still waiting for him to respond. At least our discussion keeps this thread on the front page of the thread and therefore in his sights.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top