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7800 AGP?

T

thesilentuno

n00b
Joined
Jun 22, 2005
Messages
52
Does anyone know if they going to release a agp 7800 nvidia card or is the 6800 nvidia models, the last agp videocards we will see?
 
I don't think that there's any news yet. I doubt that we have seen the end of AGP, however. Probably the majority of the serious PC gamers use the AGP interface still.
 
wait 1 or 2 months and agp will probably appear.. ( God Hope It doesn't) (or else I am broke)
( I hope I am broke when it comes out)
 
well I really do hope they dont stop cause damn i would hate to upgrade my mobo .. :( i mean i have a nice system and all but still i dont want to upgrade atm ... just my videocard.. but i have no pci express...
 
thesilentuno said:
well I really do hope they dont stop cause damn i would hate to upgrade my mobo .. :( i mean i have a nice system and all but still i dont want to upgrade atm ... just my videocard.. but i have no pci express...
Click to expand...

You'll have to upgrade your CPU *sometime* ;)
 
Chix4mat said:
You'll have to upgrade your CPU *sometime* ;)
Click to expand...

lol I know but not now ... probally untill summer next year or so ... i think mine is still good for a while...
 
Chix4mat said:
You'll have to upgrade your CPU *sometime* ;)
Click to expand...

Ah, maybe so but there are plenty of 939 mobo's and a few 775's out there that do AGP still, you never know he might have one of them so an upgrade might not be as big of a deal CPU wise as it seems.

Myself on the other hand, I'm still running socket 478 but if I got my hands on a good 3.0 with a lotta headroom I could likely squeeze 4ghz out of it, so there again, why worry about upgrading?
 
thesilentuno said:
lol I know but not now ... probally untill summer next year or so ... i think mine is still good for a while...
Click to expand...

Aye, but you said you hope they don't stop, you didn't say when :eek:

madmat, I agree. If anyone has a great card right now in AGP, I'd stick with it for sure. The 7800GTX isn't with a spontanious purchase. I'm still waiting to see what ATI has up their sleeves before I think of upgrading.
 
I hope they dont make one. People need to advance and move on in life. Let AGP die. (im not saying its bad, or that we max out the bandwidth) Just let it die. We have something new. So move on.

I can see people staying with the same platform forever because they still make AGP cards.

I hope All the sockets change soon for no reason, we get another new type of ram, and everything converts to PCIe.

Why is it hard for people to spend a little money?
 
Invest $3500 in a tower and see how soon you're willing to give up incrimental upgrades to go through and replace *everything* just because some new tech comes out.

AGP 8X hasn't even hit the wall in terms of bandwidth and thruput so there's really no sense in just dumping it because the next flavor is here. AGP is still viable and if you look at the performance numbers an AGP card performs as well as a PCI-e card does.

If you want to move to a new system that's all well and good but saying that because some new tech is here we should force everyone to adopt it is kinda crazy, that'd be like saying that since EFI is available in aftermarket let's quit selling carbs and force everyone to adopt EFI...
 
madmat said:
that'd be like saying that since EFI is available in aftermarket let's quit selling carbs and force everyone to adopt EFI...
Click to expand...

You're crazy. I want to have to buy a new house to run a new computer.
 
AGP is far too proprietary to be a permanent solution. It's only for videocards, while any x16 PCI-e slot can accodate a sound card (when they come out) and such. It's actually a replacement for PCI, not AGP.
 
madmat said:
AGP 8X hasn't even hit the wall in terms of bandwidth and thruput so there's really no sense in just dumping it because the next flavor is here. AGP is still viable and if you look at the performance numbers an AGP card performs as well as a PCI-e card does.
Click to expand...

Not when you consider that newer, faster cards (such as the 7800) are not available for the AGP bus.

Hardware manufacturers ideally shouldn't have to waste time bothering with legacy support when developing new hardware. It hinders innovation. This is why Apple Co. wins awards for design and innovation - because when they develop products, they throw out the old and come in with the new.

Also recall that PCI Express was not introduced as a replacement for AGP, but as a replacement for the PCI bus which had become too narrow for devices such as SATA, SCSI, and DVR expansion cards.
 
USMC2Hard4U said:
I hope they dont make one. People need to advance and move on in life. Let AGP die. (im not saying its bad, or that we max out the bandwidth) Just let it die. We have something new. So move on.

I can see people staying with the same platform forever because they still make AGP cards.

I hope All the sockets change soon for no reason, we get another new type of ram, and everything converts to PCIe.

Why is it hard for people to spend a little money?
Click to expand...

Some of us have to pay for our own food and rent. :p
 
Stellar said:
Not when you consider that newer, faster cards (such as the 7800) are not available for the AGP bus.

Hardware manufacturers ideally shouldn't have to waste time bothering with legacy support when developing new hardware. It hinders innovation. This is why Apple Co. wins awards for design and innovation - because when they develop products, they throw out the old and come in with the new.

Also recall that PCI Express was not introduced as a replacement for AGP, but as a replacement for the PCI bus which had become too narrow for devices such as SATA, SCSI, and DVR expansion cards.
Click to expand...

Apple is the only company producing Apple computers, they can afford to throw out old tech, it affects, what a few thousand people when they do?

PCI-e 16X might not have been developed as a replacement for AGP but it certainly is being used as one, if not then why is it that we only see 1 PCI-e 16X port on most mobo's being introduced...because it's being used for graphics, not SCSI, not SATA controllers, not sound cards, ETC. but graphics.

If it were there to utilize for devices that really needed massive bandwidth they'd incorporate AGP into the scheme as well to suplement the 16X slot when it's used for something other than graphics but they don't.

I think you're confusing PCI-e 1x with PCI-e 16X as being the replacement for all the other peripherals that are begining to demand greater bandwidth.

The fact remains that there are literally millions of computers out there with AGP ports and if those companies don't see that forcing the people that can't afford it to make a several hundred dollar upgrade just to adopt a new GPU because they can be bothered with implementing a PCI-e to AGP bridge is not in their best intrest then I pitty them because instead of upgrades being made on a basis of "My PC won't keep up with the current software in total" to being made because "My PC is no longer supported by the hardware community" it's really going to make consumers that much more leary about upgrading just to have the rug ripped out from under them again.
 
USMC2Hard4U said:
I hope they dont make one. People need to advance and move on in life. Let AGP die. (im not saying its bad, or that we max out the bandwidth) Just let it die. We have something new. So move on.

I can see people staying with the same platform forever because they still make AGP cards.

I hope All the sockets change soon for no reason, we get another new type of ram, and everything converts to PCIe.

Why is it hard for people to spend a little money?
Click to expand...

Just because something is new, does not mean people she move to it. AGP hasn't even reached its limit yet, so why should a consumer waste money on something he doesn't need? It doesn't make any marketing sense. While you are forcing people to move onto PCI-E, there is no point (unless you plan SLI*.) Imagine if Nvidia refuses to come out with an AGP card. ATI then capitalizes on this mistake, and *BAM* ATI has a huge part of the market share.

Take for example hybrid cars and possible hydrogen engines. Just because the technology is good and better does not mean people should be forced to move on. If John Doe wants to ride his hummer, fine. That doesn't mean he should be left with no choice to go with a hybrid because some people value it over other types.

In short, Nvidia would be incredibly stupid to not come out with an AGP card.

*which is a very small part of the market anyway
 
USMC2Hard4U said:
Just like I said before... They need to leave agp in the past.
Click to expand...

They will still produce AGP mobos in the next year. And ATI will still make their x8 cards in AGP as well as the nexgen cards. I dont see any reason to upgrade to PCI-E, if it has NO SPEED CHANGE, and will cost me 400$+ to upgrade to it.
 
did that article say not enough demand??? for AGP???? hahahahahhahh!! yah everyone ha PCI express more than agp.....ya right!
 
I saw that, but I think it's only a matter of time before Nvidia caves to the AGP crowd. If ATI does AGP right off the bat, Nvidia will do it too. I'd say in a month or two like an earlier poster.
 
Skin said:
They will still produce AGP mobos in the next year. And ATI will still make their x8 cards in AGP as well as the nexgen cards. I dont see any reason to upgrade to PCI-E, if it has NO SPEED CHANGE, and will cost me 400$+ to upgrade to it.
Click to expand...

$400 to upgrade to PCI Express? How?

PCI Express motherboards can be had new in retail for $70-100, even less for refurbs - and they are even available for older Skt 754 Athlon processors.

Why, why, why then do people insist on clinging to legacy hardware (other than being cheap or broke)??

Sure, current video cards don't fill up the AGP bus, except that, that AGP bus happens to be on an older motherboard that doesn't support newer RAM, newer hard disks, or newer processors. It's an entirely dated platform, and there's no reason we should cling to it. This is an accelerated field of technology we are talking about, you can either give yourself an upgrade path, or fall behind the rest of us and end up bitching about availability. Your choice.
 
" RAM, newer hard disks, or newer processors" wtf??? amd=DDR ram.. not DDR2

hard drives??? I can probably toss a raptor in a pentium 3 system... processors? socket 939 agp board is the same as pci-e boards...
 
You obviously have bought into the marketting machine. There is no real need to upgrade to PCIe. So you're saying that as a company instead of taking my $600 willingly this generation you are willing to wait another 18 months, and lose a sale?

And AGP is the upgrade path! You're saying I should be forced to upgrade now, because PCIe is the upgrade path? That makes no sense. So then in 18months when PCIe 32x comes out, should I jump on that because that's the upgrade path?

And what are you talking about when you say that AGP is a dated tech that doesn't support anything? There are plenty of S939 motherboards out there with AGP. Last I checked S939 will support quite a number of new CPU's from AMD. Plus I don't see AMD requiring DDR2.

These boards also support SATA generally onboard, if not you can get a PCI card.

So I don't really understand your points unless you are some sort of PCIe sales person.


Stellar said:
$400 to upgrade to PCI Express? How?

PCI Express motherboards can be had new in retail for $70-100, even less for refurbs - and they are even available for older Skt 754 Athlon processors.

Why, why, why then do people insist on clinging to legacy hardware (other than being cheap or broke)??

Sure, current video cards don't fill up the AGP bus, except that, that AGP bus happens to be on an older motherboard that doesn't support newer RAM, newer hard disks, or newer processors. It's an entirely dated platform, and there's no reason we should cling to it. This is an accelerated field of technology we are talking about, you can either give yourself an upgrade path, or fall behind the rest of us and end up bitching about availability. Your choice.
Click to expand...
 
So anyone here would buy an AGP system over a PCI-e system if they were buying/building a new computer today? (This doesn't apply to the DFI + DTR processor [s754] fannies :D)
 
I hope that NVidia does release an AGP 7800GTX. I also hope AMD releases a dual core CPU that I can run in my socket 754 mobo, even if it is a Turion64...

That doesn't mean it will happen though. :eek:
 
I think Nvidia is trying to encourage as many SLI board sales as possible before Crossfire is released. One way to do that is only release your latest card on the PCIe bus and force people to upgrade if they want it. However, when ATI announces the R520 AGP, you can bet the farm a 7800 GTX AGP model will be announced.
 
Where theres a market theres always gonna be something there and with agp i think we will see something. The reason why they said that right now was because they want people to buy their 7800 right now and not wait. Most likely there will be agp, no reason not to make them. I bet there are more agp systems out there than pci-e right now but that will fade away sooner or later.
 
Conker said:
Where theres a market theres always gonna be something there and with agp i think we will see something. The reason why they said that right now was because they want people to buy their 7800 right now and not wait. Most likely there will be agp, no reason not to make them. I bet there are more agp systems out there than pci-e right now but that will fade away sooner or later.
Click to expand...

Sure, more and more PCIe systems will be arriving in people's homes, but they're likely going to be using the integrated graphics on the PCIe board. Just because X% of the market has gone PCIe to PCIe mobos doesn't mean that that same percent is using, or interested in, PCIe videocards. With the advent of the newer consoles, ATI and Nvidia have to make sure that their high-end, big spending market keeps on buying their high end cards; cutting AGP users out will likely make those users ask: do I want to spend more on a mobo and video card (assuming that they can transfer their RAM, CPU, and PCI acccessories) than I would on a console and a buttload of games? That's really not a question that I think they want people to ask, so they're likely better off making an AGP version a few months down the road.
 
Here is the simple reason why an AGP 7800GTX SHOULD be made....

Most computers still are only AGP. Despite what you see here in the forums, this is only a small minority of the computing world. Almost everyone I know is still on AGP.

And to those who say I should just upgrade to a PCI-E mobo, think about this. I will have to add $100 for a decent mobo just so I can get PCI-E (which I have not seen one for a 478 intel worth the price). That logic means I will be paying $100 more just for a vid card, since the 478 has reached its end as a processor upgrade path. I do want to upgrade, but I find spending my money on my education and food a little bit more important.

Now for people with AMD 939 processors and Intel 775, buying a nice new mobo with PCI-E might be a little bit more worth while since those still seem to have upgrade paths.


Zero

P.S. I hope I dont come off horribly rude with this post, but I just hate it when people seem to think everyone has money to spend all the time.

P.P.S (or is it P.S.S.?) To the people saying that PCI-E is the newest thing and nVidia has good reason not to support AGP, realize this: THEY are ignoring a rather huge market that could lead to a bigger profit.
 
I just remembered I had made a post about the 7800 and AGP, and the logic nVidia had used in introducing the PCI-E version only first. (I thought this was too long to add to my previous post)

Heres the post:

jhzero1984 said:
I am starting to believe there is some logic to not releasing an AGP version at this time. First, they wanted to only introduce the flagship card while also one upping ATI by having the card in retail the day its released. PCI-E is not mainstream, at least not completely, so the demand for the card would be less than releasing the AGP version, or both AGP and PCI-E.
This way, Nvidia can produce e:nough cards in PCI-E version to meet demand compared to AGP. AGP is still in demand, it might just not be obvious on this message board since those here, like me, want the latest and greatest and are willing to pay for it. This logic follows two things:

1. Nvidia is able to get there card in retail on the day of release.

2. Enough cards should be out to meet and possibly exceed initial demand.


By having a card in retail upon release, Nvidia is going to get a lot of press on where it matters most, the gaming consumers who want the latest and greatest.

With this, Nvidia can keep up momentum by releasing an AGP version, then introducing the lower models of the 7800 series as the next couple months progress, keeping their name in the headlines of the press, and selling cards to the not so hardcore consumers. Nvidia is then putting pressure upon ATI to get their challenger on the market, currently scheduled for August. From here, Nvidia may answer with an Ultra (maybe the day ATI releases their card, also having it in retail immediately?). By the end of August, Nvidia would have a foothold on the market with their cards being released and in retail by then, while also possibly having a card that could take the performance crown (bragging rights). ATI will be up a creek without a paddle, struggling to get dollars from consumers who already spent their hard earned money.

Nvidia might just have begun a brilliant business strategy.

We will soon see.....
Click to expand...


Zero
 
jhzero1984 said:
Here is the simple reason why an AGP 7800GTX SHOULD be made....

Most computers still are only AGP. Despite what you see here in the forums, this is only a small minority of the computing world. Almost everyone I know is still on AGP.
Click to expand...

I agree...however it looks like they won't be making the 7800 in AGP. Most everyone I know is on AGP- I just got lucky and was able to sell my parts without taking a big hit, and was able to do the across-the-board upgrade. I think it'd be good to offer maybe one last new-gen card as AGP- it'd make LANs around here more fun (and peaceful). :)
 
kpedge said:
I agree...however it looks like they won't be making the 7800 in AGP. Most everyone I know is on AGP- I just got lucky and was able to sell my parts without taking a big hit, and was able to do the across-the-board upgrade. I think it'd be good to offer maybe one last new-gen card as AGP- it'd make LANs around here more fun (and peaceful). :)
Click to expand...


If demand is there, it will be built. I think what they should do is announce that this year is the final year of AGP. Would make more since to announce it rather than let it just become true.
 
jhzero1984 said:
If demand is there, it will be built. I think what they should do is announce that this year is the final year of AGP. Would make more since to announce it rather than let it just become true.
Click to expand...
Their has to be a time were AGP needs to end. It is inevitable. It mite as well be right now.

The way I look at it, is you guys were lucky they decided to make the 6xxx series into AGP too. That was your transition period.
 
Well, I'm the one of the people that managed to get myself into a hell hole. I'm running X800 XT PE on a socket 478 P4 3G, so you see I would really like to upgrade my mobo and CPU and RAM, but if I go with a mobo that has PCI-e then my X800 XT PE will become useless (it's still a very good card IMO and I'd like to use it for a while before I upgrade) but if I go with one of the rare ones that has AGP slot then I kill any possibility of upgrading my video card in the future. Sucks to be me right now. :(
 
Project_2501 said:
So anyone here would buy an AGP system over a PCI-e system if they were buying/building a new computer today? (This doesn't apply to the DFI + DTR processor [s754] fannies :D)
Click to expand...

no i think mostly people in here are complaining about upgrading .. if they are building a new system i think they are going to be getting a mobo with pci express .. because remember they are not just for videocards either .. they are suppose to replace PCI slots...well anyways if i was building a new system i would get one with pci-e .. who wouldnt .. but like i mention mostly people are complaining because they dont want to upgrade .. just like me .. i dont want to upgrade(atm) so i hope that ati or nvidia rls a AGP card of the new gen cards.
 
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