6600GT or X-700 Pro...Need Advice

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bran(d)muffin

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Oct 20, 2004
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Basically my title says it all...i need to decide whether or not to go with the nvidia card or ati's... I have always had good luck with nvidia's cards before, and my one radeon gave me a lot of crap...but then again...that was ONE radeon..and it was pci...but anyway...i hear the ati gets better fps on HL2...but everything else favors the nvidia chips...so if yu have any suggestions...plz let me know..


has any of you heard about the NV40 and the NV43 chips not doing the hardware decoding for dvd's? i know nvidia aint talking about this...but i heard somewhere through the grapevine that their hardware decodeder is "broken" and may be fixed soon by a driver release...anyone heard about this?

also, i need to make a decision between the two cards, the X-700 Pro (ATi) and the 6600GT (nvidia) . Me is gonna be playing Doom3, HL2, and of course UT2004 (which runs awesome on my 5600 Ultra) Which card would you guys recommend? (And dont say ati cuz ati rocks or same with nvidia... i have look at framerates test and see that the 6600gt overtakes the ati card, except at HL2...but i dunno...the ati having 256mb and the 6600gt is only 128...)
 
the 6600gt is better for doom3/ut2k4, but the x700 pro will lead marginally in HL2
 
*flips the ATi fa-boi switches*

But, but, but, but, the x700 pro r teh roxors cause it sais ATi on teh box n it runs at like 90*F at stock in 2d!!! Such OC potencial!!

~Adam
 
CleanSlate said:
*flips the ATi fa-boi switches*

But, but, but, but, the x700 pro r teh roxors cause it sais ATi on teh box n it runs at like 90*F at stock in 2d!!! Such OC potencial!!

~Adam
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You're an idiot.

Get the 6600GT branmuffin
 
Silverghost said:
You're an idiot.

Get the 6600GT branmuffin
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I'm the idiot? I LACKERED and DROWNED that post in sarcasm, and you take it for real...

Yea, I'm the idiot.

~Adam
 
Silverghost said:
You're an idiot.
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2nd that!

do the research and choose whatever fits you better. price, warranty, power consumption, benchmarks, add-ins, yadda yadda yadda. both will be good performers.
 
CleanSlate said:
I'm the idiot? I LACKERED and DROWNED that post in sarcasm, and you take it for real...

Yea, I'm the idiot.

~Adam
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Oh I know. I'm just sick of people and the !!!!!! humour when it comes to ATi and nVidia. That's all I ever see.
 
Silverghost said:
You're an idiot.

Get the 6600GT branmuffin
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pigpen said:
2nd that!

do the research and choose whatever fits you better. price, warranty, power consumption, benchmarks, add-ins, yadda yadda yadda. both will be good performers.
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Jeeze. His statement was pure [H]ardcore sarcasm. Lighten up and read the post before flaming him.
On a side note, < start sarcasm > what do you think would happen if I took a GF2 MX, and like, put a pelt on it, and then like a Dodge 4x4 Radiator ontop of that, then overlocked it to like, umm, 2Ghz, it would own it all. Screw the GF and the ATI, go with that. :eek: < / end sarcasm >
 
Silverghost said:
Oh I know. I'm just sick of people and the !!!!!! humour when it comes to ATi and nVidia. That's all I ever see.
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Shut up. Either 1. you're lieing and took it for real or 2. you're a whiney little girly-man

~Adam
 
VvTheDon said:
Jeeze. His statement was pure [H]ardcore sarcasm. Lighten up and read the post before flaming him.
On a side note, < start sarcasm > what do you think would happen if I took a GF2 MX, and like, put a pelt on it, and then like a Dodge 4x4 Radiator ontop of that, then overlocked it to like, umm, 2Ghz, it would own it all. Screw the GF and the ATI, go with that. :eek: < / end sarcasm >
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Now that's ... not funny...

~Adam
 
CleanSlate said:
Shut up. Either 1. you're lieing and took it for real or 2. you're a whiney little girly-man

~Adam
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I can read e-sarcasm. But your wasn't funny at all.
 
all u guys calling him an idiot are THE idiots... i mean come hes just joking around.. haha

anyways wow i just read the review here : http://www.bit-tech.net/review/357 and wow i always thought that the 6600gt>x700xt... but now the x700xt is pretty sweet but yeah i still think the 6600gt is a tiny bit better because since u wanna play doom3 which is better on the 6600gt.. and the other games.. which the 6600gt runs on par... a little below, or beating it by a small margin... i'd say get the gt because later on more doom 3 based engines will come out.. like the new quake... and teh 6600gt performs outstanding with other games too... unlike the x700xt on doom 3 engines... go for the 6600gt. and yeah you do get sli capabilities too.
 
o wait u were talking about the x700 PRO*** crap.. than definitely go for the 6600gt :)
 
6600GT is just killing the mid range ATi PCI-E parts atm soo go with the 6600GT :D
 
Silverghost said:
You can stop posting now.
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Ok, I knew that, thanks. So can you, if you didn't know. Or you could go post in another forum, like [G]enmay *laff*

~Adam
 
Take the 6600gt, that's what I would do (and was going to do until I got a kick-ass offer on an x800pro).

There is however the question of memory. I'd take a 256meg x700xt over a 128meg 6600gt, if only for future-proofing. But in a 128meg vs 128meg or a 256 vs 256 scenario, go for the 6600gt for the features.

Anyway, both cards are very good so you can't go wrong on either one.
 
CleanSlate said:
I'm the idiot? I LACKERED and DROWNED that post in sarcasm, and you take it for real...

Yea, I'm the idiot.

~Adam
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Don't worry, the sarcasm showed through and was quite funny, not to mention well put. They just didn't get it.

Which often defines good sarcasm.
 
hordaktheman said:
Don't worry, the sarcasm showed through and was quite funny, not to mention well put. They just didn't get it.

Which often defines good sarcasm.
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i understand sarcasm. Just thought it was lame to clutter up a thread for an inquiring poster without offerring any useful advice. Plus, i'm sick of computer nerds and sarcasm.
 
Why is he comparing the 6600GT with the X700pro?
The X700XT is the competeting product, and hangs right with the 6600GT.
 
Moloch said:
Why is he comparing the 6600GT with the X700pro?
The X700XT is the competeting product, and hangs right with the 6600GT.
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The X700XT still has a deficit of features compared to the 6600GT - No SM3.0, no openexr hdr, and no SLI. It may hang in performance, but it falls short in terms of features - less future proof, and less upgradable.
 
tranCendenZ said:
The X700XT still has a deficit of features compared to the 6600GT - No SM3.0, no openexr hdr, and no SLI. It may hang in performance, but it falls short in terms of features - less future proof, and less upgradable.
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True, but as of yet their usefulness (or speed rather) is debatable. If Far Cry's performance drops into the ~40 or 50fps range on 6800GTs w/ HDR enabled, I can't imagine what it'll do to 6600s. SLI is another issue, as he didn't specify his motherboard, and even then he might as well go the whole way and get a 6800gt or an ATi equivalent. If he's running on an AGP board, SLI is even less of an issue.

This leaves SM3.0 being the only real benefit of going for a 6600, but on the other hand the X700 has much greater vertex throughput to make up for it's lack of SM3.0. So, it's basically a case of each card having one major advantage over the other. That's why the only real claim either card could have of being more future-proof than the other would be if that card had 256megs of memory while other only had 128megs, which is slowly becoming too little.
 
CleanSlate said:
Ok, I knew that, thanks. So can you, if you didn't know. Or you could go post in another forum, like [G]enmay *laff*

~Adam
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I did stop, I went to bed.


I forgot that the 6600GT was only 128 megs. I'd get the 6600GT over the X700Pro, but the XT has 256. And with the 8.07 drivers. The X700XT will be faster than the 6600GT thanks to the memory error fix.

Therefore I'd go with the X700XT if he can afford it. The 6600GT does have SM3.0, buts its too slow for HDR, and the 256 megs will come in handy with HL2 and Doom3. Which are the games he wants to play.
 
hordaktheman said:
True, but as of yet their usefulness (or speed rather) is debatable. If Far Cry's performance drops into the ~40 or 50fps range on 6800GTs w/ HDR enabled, I can't imagine what it'll do to 6600s.
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The 6600s will be in a similar situation, they will lose a resolution or two. Instead of playing at 1024x768, they'd have to play at 640x480 or 800x600 with HDR enabled. (instead of 1024x768 or 1280x1024 with a 6800GT).

SLI is another issue, as he didn't specify his motherboard, and even then he might as well go the whole way and get a 6800gt or an ATi equivalent. If he's running on an AGP board, SLI is even less of an issue.
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Since he mentioned two pci-express cards in the subject, I assume he is running pci-express. And the point with SLI is that he can buy a $200 card now, and when he has more cash later buy another $200 card and have performance equivalent to that of a $400 card.

This leaves SM3.0 being the only real benefit of going for a 6600, but on the other hand the X700 has much greater vertex throughput to make up for it's lack of SM3.0. So, it's basically a case of each card having one major advantage over the other. That's why the only real claim either card could have of being more future-proof than the other would be if that card had 256megs of memory while other only had 128megs, which is slowly becoming too little.
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Right now X700 might make up for SM3.0, but when games start to heavily use SM3.0 features next year, there is a good chance X700 owners will have to turn off shader effects or watch the FPS plummet.
 
tranCendenZ said:
The 6600s will be in a similar situation, they will lose a resolution or two. Instead of playing at 1024x768, they'd have to play at 640x480 or 800x600 with HDR enabled. (instead of 1024x768 or 1280x1024 with a 6800GT).



Since he mentioned two pci-express cards in the subject, I assume he is running pci-express. And the point with SLI is that he can buy a $200 card now, and when he has more cash later buy another $200 card and have performance equivalent to that of a $400 card.



Right now X700 might make up for SM3.0, but when games start to heavily use SM3.0 features next year, there is a good chance X700 owners will have to turn off shader effects or watch the FPS plummet.
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No objections there from me really...

It all depends on whether the trend moves toward more pixel shading or vertex shading (which is still uncertain), and whether the pixel shaders used will exceed the 1536 instruction limit of the r4xx series. If they don't, it's a moot point. If they do, the question is whether the 6600s are fast enough to handle them.

In any case, for the current state of the industry, the most important "feature" for EITHER card is to have 256megs of memory. Because the other factors are uncertain, they are moot at the present moment, and thus pure speculation.
 
hordaktheman said:
It all depends on whether the trend moves toward more pixel shading or vertex shading (which is still uncertain), and whether the pixel shaders used will exceed the 1536 instruction limit of the r4xx series. If they don't, it's a moot point. If they do, the question is whether the 6600s are fast enough to handle them.
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A lot more than just more PS instructions in just SM3.0. For instance, dynamic flow control and geometry instancing. Odds are devs won't support geometry instancing for X700/X800 past this year since it is out of ps2.0b spec and now disabled in ATI drivers as required by Microsoft, and most who use the card won't have it enabled. And dynamic flow control is also out of ps2.0b spec, and there is no proof ATI could use dynamic flow control in a game that uses it heavily. In fact, in ATI's "Save the Nanosecond" presentation, Richard Huddy stated that when games started to use dynamic flow control it would really "hurt" the x800 line badly. Lastly there is the precision issue, epic has already stated that Unreal3 will have artifacts on FP24 cards like the X800 because U3's fog shaders require FP32 precision. There is actually lots more but it would require me copying and pasting large amounts of info i've typed up before. You can see some of the things sm2.0b is missing from sm3.0 here:
http://www.beyond3d.com/previews/nvidia/nv40/index.php?p=5
 
pigpen said:
i understand sarcasm. Just thought it was lame to clutter up a thread for an inquiring poster without offerring any useful advice. Plus, i'm sick of computer nerds and sarcasm.
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I did put very good information in that sarcasm, the x700 series runs hot as hell and honestly I wouldn't buy it simply for that reason. If you read the sarcasm you'll get it.

~Adam
 
tranCendenZ said:
A lot more than just more PS instructions in just SM3.0. For instance, dynamic branching and geometry instancing. Odds are devs won't support geometry instancing for X700/X800 past this year since it is out of ps2.0b spec and now disabled in ATI drivers as required by Microsoft, and most who use the card won't have it enabled. And dynamic flow control is also out of ps2.0b spec, and there is no proof ATI could use dynamic flow control in a game that uses it heavily. Lastly there is the precision issue, epic has already stated that Unreal3 will have artifacts on FP24 cards like the X800 because U3's fog shaders require FP32 precision. There is actually lots more but it would require me copying and pasting large amounts of text. You can see some of the things sm2.0b is missing from sm3.0 here:
http://www.beyond3d.com/previews/nvidia/nv40/index.php?p=5
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Yeah, I got that. I know that the 6600 has more features, but that's not my point. It's not just a matter of features, but whether they can be used at an acceptable speed. As far as I know, dynamic branching is pretty much out of the question for 6600s, so whether or not it supports it is moot. Same goes for the other features. If the speed isn't up to snuff, the features are irrelevant.

That's why I'm trying to warn him about the 256meg issue. If (and that's a big if) the 6600s turn out to be too slow to properly employ all of it's features, it had better be a 256meg card. Otherwise, he'd definitely have made the wrong purchase, as he'd be stuck with a card that's too slow to use for it's originally intended purpose, with too little memory. With 256megs it would at least be comparable to the card he sacrificed for his present one.

That's really my main point. As long as it's a 256meg card, he can't really go wrong either way. Just so long as it's not a 128meg one.
 
weird. Once again I can't see the batman's post. I don't have him on an ignore list. Why can't I see his post?
 
Netrat33 said:
weird. Once again I can't see the batman's post. I don't have him on an ignore list. Why can't I see his post?
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Seems a lot of the time I post it shows the last poster in the thread is The Batman.
 
hordaktheman said:
Yeah, I got that. I know that the 6600 has more features, but that's not my point. It's not just a matter of features, but whether they can be used at an acceptable speed. As far as I know, dynamic branching is pretty much out of the question for 6600s, so whether or not it supports it is moot. Same goes for the other features. If the speed isn't up to snuff, the features are irrelevant.

That's why I'm trying to warn him about the 256meg issue. If (and that's a big if) the 6600s turn out to be too slow to properly employ all of it's features, it had better be a 256meg card. Otherwise, he'd definitely have made the wrong purchase, as he'd be stuck with a card that's too slow to use for it's originally intended purpose, with too little memory. With 256megs it would at least be comparable to the card he sacrificed for his present one.

That's really my main point. As long as it's a 256meg card, he can't really go wrong either way. Just so long as it's not a 128meg one.
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When it comes right down to it, the 256MB issue in itself becomes moot when employing the SLI capabilities of the card, which he has mentioned wanting to do. After getting the second 6600GT in SLI, he then has his 256MB of memory. In benchmarks (which Anand stated the drivers support for SLI was still shakey and he expects performance increases in later drivers that fix some issues because the technology is too new) the 6600GT was still only "slightly" slower than one 6800GT which obviously kills the performance and feature set of the more mainstream focused X700 series of ATI cards. All the future proofing, AND the 256MBs of memory, and he doesn't have the shell out the $400 all at once to get it. :)
 
VvTheDon said:
When it comes right down to it, the 256MB issue in itself becomes moot when employing the SLI capabilities of the card, which he has mentioned wanting to do. After getting the second 6600GT in SLI, he then has his 256MB of memory. In benchmarks (which Anand stated the drivers support for SLI was still shakey and he expects performance increases in later drivers that fix some issues because the technology is too new) the 6600GT was still only "slightly" slower than one 6800GT which obviously kills the performance and feature set of the more mainstream focused X700 series of ATI cards. All the future proofing, AND the 256MBs of memory, and he doesn't have the shell out the $400 all at once to get it. :)
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SLI doesn't double the memory. Two 128meg cards in SLI will just act like a single 128meg card as all the same data will need to be sent to each card.
 
yeah i know that 2x 128meg cards in SLi only makes 128MB of ram...but that can compare to 256...since thast 128 MB with twice the effeciency...like the whole 800MHz FSB is actually just two 400's running dual channel...But what mainly concerns me now...as i will be playing AVIDLY Doom 3, HL2, UT2004 (which rocks anyway right now on my GeForce 5600 Ultra 128MB) and also Ghost Recon 2. (Right now...GR plays just kick ass on max settings) So basically what i need to know, before i make my purchase. Is WHY i should get the ATi card. I uderstand so far that the 6600gt may be too slow for the features..but then why are D3 benchmarks higher? Also...i never had any good luck with ati cards, always seemed to run slower than my nvidia cards...So yeah. If the X-700XT is better than the 6600GT i shall get it then. i know i can get the x700pro for 160 at work...and maybe cheaper online, but with what ever line of card i go with, i wanna get the best model of that line. I like my GF5600U...WAY OUTPERFORMS other 5600's and 5700's that i have seen...and my card comes close to the 5900 non-ultra...So...def wannag etht eh XT or Ultra. But still... i like Nv's Pixel Shader...since most games are written for Nv...like UT2004, StarWarsGalaxies, ect. So basically its now coming down to HL2, D3, and GR2. Which ever will perform the best overall for all three of those ill prolly buy. Maybe i will even buy ATi. I know i cant blacklabel them since i only had issues with ONE ATi card that i owned, and it was a PCI...But then my TNT2 M64 (32MB) PCI worked like crap for UnrealTournament (1998) ... in that sys i had onboard agp disabled..hence the PCI. And GR worked like shit on my radeon...it crashed on any game when it went from the loading screen to the map. i never saw the map...just laod screen and then desktop. So if i could still get some more info from you guys, and your opionions, which i value. I've read a whole shit load from anand, TMG (which supprisingly i dont like tomshardware...but they have cool pictars :) ) But tahst just tech specs which i dont know what applies to what and stuff like that...too confusing for me.
 
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