50 years of video game revenue

[PeaKr]

Arcade was king in the 80's but eventually defeated by the consoles. The golden age of gaming saw the rise of the PC Master Race, eventually overpowering those filthy console peasants. However mobile is the new king, raking in a staggering 124% more than PC. It seems today's youth would rather play candy crush, we are doomed.

https://www.zerohedge.com/technology/visualizing-50-years-video-game-revenues-platform

 

[UnknownSouljer]

Arcade was king in the 80's but eventually defeated by the consoles. The golden age of gaming saw the rise of the PC Master Race, eventually overpowering those filthy console peasants. However mobile is the new king, raking in a staggering 124% more than PC. It seems today's youth would rather play candy crush, we are doomed.

https://www.zerohedge.com/technology/visualizing-50-years-video-game-revenues-platform

View attachment 625504

According to your own chart, as far back as 1989, handhelds were dominant above everything. Handhelds are the progenitors to mobile.

More obvious evidence that PCMR is a false narrative and always has been. It’s just as dumb as actual racism. If that’s doom, then you should’ve accepted doom a long time ago. Just play games like everyone else and enjoy them regardless of platform.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

According to your own chart, as far back as 1989, handhelds were dominant above everything. Handhelds are the progenitors to mobile.

More obvious evidence that PCMR is a false narrative and always has been. It’s just as dumb as actual racism. If that’s doom, then you should’ve accepted doom a long time ago. Just play games like everyone else and enjoy them regardless of platform.

PC is the preeminent gaming experience.

It doesn't mean it is the most popular, likely in large part because it comes with an increasingly outlandish pricetag for most people.

The "master" part simply comes from that it is the best experience by far you can get in games.

Mobile is by far the most popular experience these days, in large part because it is all a very large proportion of people can afford (or at least justify spending on entertainment, which by it's very nature is non-essential.) This is especially true when you think globally and thus include the BRICs and developing nations.

Lots of industries are like this. Music sounds much better on a $3000 seat of headphones playing from expensive amps and DAC's, but most people listen on an old set of cheap ear buds they got for thee three phones ago when phones still came with free earbuds...

Same thing.

 

[UnknownSouljer]

PC is the preeminent gaming experience.

It doesn't mean it is the most popular, likely in large part because it comes with an increasingly outlandish pricetag for most people.

Op brought it up, equating popularity with being the greatest.

The "master" part simply comes from that it is the best experience by far you can get in games.

And the "Race" part to go along with "Master"? You know the entire part of the conversation about being superior vs someone else based on their play preference and what they can afford?

And what about people who prefer controllers to KB/m? Platformers to FPS'? etc etc. It's a stupid distinction designed to make some people feel superior as if what is best for some people is the best for all people. People are playing these games on $1000+ phones. If they wanted to have a $1000+ computer they could. They don't want it.

So defining "superior" in this way isn't even accurate. If this type of consumer can't play it on a phone as readily it's not a "superior" experience. Even a Steam Deck doesn't fit the desire in this category.

Mobile is by far the most popular experience these days, in large part because it is all a very large proportion of people can afford (or at least justify spending on entertainment, which by it's very nature is non-essential.) This is especially true when you think globally and thus include the BRICs and developing nations.

Lots of industries are like this. Music sounds much better on a $3000 seat of headphones playing from expensive amps and DAC's, but most people listen on an old set of cheap ear buds they got for thee three phones ago when phones still came with free earbuds...

Same thing.

When people stop talking about it as though one makes a human being superior over another, I'll drop it. Seeing as how they won't, I won't either.

 

[chameleoneel]

Its a bit tricky, because Nintendo's specifically "handheld" machines, have been dissolved into the hybrid Switch------which later came out with a very successful, "handheld" only version. Which this article probably isn't specifically tabulating, here.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

And the "Master Race" part? You know the entire part of the conversation about being superior vs someone else based on their play preference and what they can afford?

And what about people who prefer controllers to KB/m? Platformers to FPS'? etc etc. It's a stupid distinction designed to make some people feel superior as if what is best for some people is the best for all people.

I think part of the feelings of superiority originated back in the day when you had to build your own (or at least install your own video card) to enjoy PC gaming

The superior experience was tied to needing to be at least marginally technically competent enough to research what to buy and to install it. If you couldn't hack it (or didn't care) you didn't get the superior experience.

That was a long time ago now.

Even lacking this though, it would be far from the first enthusiast community to declare itself somehow superior to more mainstream people based on its preferences.

Back when I cared about modifying cars terms like "grocery getter" were derisively thrown around to describe any car that was just used as transportation. And lets not forget about the superiority complex of the "audiophile" community.

Wanting to declare yourself better than other people seems like something pervasive in humanity.

 

[UnknownSouljer]

Wanting to declare yourself better than other people seems like something pervasive in humanity.

On this we agree, but it's also the part of humanity that most needs to die. Because it's these notions that literally lead us into World War II.

 

[DukenukemX]

And the "Race" part to go along with "Master Race"? You know the entire part of the conversation about being superior vs someone else based on their play preference and what they can afford?

The PC gaming industry has been claimed to be dead numerous times, and it certainly wasn't without companies like Microsoft and Sony from trying. I remember when a developer from Bungie claimed that PC was a dead platform. Wish I could find that video. There's a reason why Destiny 1 wasn't on PC. The whole PCMasterRace was a quick joke made by Ben "Yahtzee" Croshaw when he was mocking PC gamers. Like anyone who's been given a derogatory name, they owned it. You make it sound like PC gamers came up with the phrase. We turned a negative into a positive.

And what about people who prefer controllers to KB/m?

Stupid thing to point out. KB/m have been superior for such a long time that people forget that controllers are given auto aim by default for a reason. It's also why nobody with a KB/m is allowed to fight those with controllers in most games, because it's such a huge advantage. The games that try have given those with controllers an abusive amount of auto aim.

Platformers to FPS'?

You seem to think that this is the same as KB/m vs controller? Platformers are not exclusive to consoles, just like FPS isn't to PC. You might as well mention cake vs pie to support your argument.

It's a stupid distinction designed to make some people feel superior as if what is best for some people is the best for all people.

Because PC is superior. Superior in cost, superior in performance, and superior in freedom. The only problem PC has is complexity, and that can be solved by just buying a prebuilt or a laptop. If you don't have much money and are able bodied then you don't have an excuse to learn how to build your own and save money.

People are playing these games on $1000+ phones. If they wanted to have a $1000+ computer they could. They don't want it.

People who buy $1000+ phones probably couldn't afford much of anything else. Most people aren't making good use of that extra power and storage over their previous model phone. For them it's a status symbol to let everyone know around them that they're not poor, even though spending that much on a phone will certainly get you there faster. It's like when people buy luxury sports cars and then forgot they still need to pay to maintain them, but don't because they were barely able to afford the car itself. It's not like people actually buy $1000+ phones to play games. You're not going to justify buying a $1000+ phone to play Call of Duty when a Nintendo Switch or Steam Deck is like 1/3 the price while also having access to far more games. Also if you think that mobile market chart is mostly $1000+ phones, you're crazy. The people who spend money in games on mobile are using a $300 or less phone, and because that's all they can afford. Mobile gaming is the only source of gaming they can afford. It's just that mobile games are mostly gotcha games and are very good at making people with little money, spend it in a mobile game.

 

[PeaKr]

According to your own chart, as far back as 1989, handhelds were dominant above everything. Handhelds are the progenitors to mobile.

More obvious evidence that PCMR is a false narrative and always has been. It’s just as dumb as actual racism. If that’s doom, then you should’ve accepted doom a long time ago. Just play games like everyone else and enjoy them regardless of platform.

Na, you're wrong, maybe you should take another look, PC is the blue one, its fatter, in 89 handheld was barely even a blip. I think you take shit entirely too seriously, its just an internet meme. It may not be yours but imo, except for a few genres, PC is the preeminent gaming platform in every way. I build gaming PC's on the side and in '23 I built more than any other year, just built one for a 22 year old who lit up like a Christmas tree when he came and picked it up. Even Terry agrees, PCMR for life yo!

 

[UnknownSouljer]

Na, you're wrong, maybe you should take another look, PC is the blue one, its fatter, in 89 handheld was barely even a blip.
I think you take shit entirely too seriously, its just an internet meme. It may not be yours but imo, except for a few genres, PC is the preeminent gaming platform in every way. I build gaming PC's on the side and in '23 I built more than any other year, just built one for a 22 year old who lit up like a Christmas tree when he came and picked it up. Even Terry agrees, PCMR for life yo!

View attachment 625509

Got it, you believe you're better than other people because you play games on a PC. You literally call people peasants based on what they own. You equate the value of people based on the monetary value of things.

 

[Tactlesss]

I hate using that term, PC master race. At best it is self deprecating.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

According to your own chart, as far back as 1989, handhelds were dominant above everything. Handhelds are the progenitors to mobile.

I think you need to reread the chart. In 1989, handhelds barely registered and it appears console and arcade were neck and neck. I was a senior in high school/freshman in college then and the Gameboy was a blip at the time. I had C64 and Amiga back then (still have them!) and didn’t care about NES and at the time, my perception was that arcades were a shadow of their former selves. As a kid in the late 70s and early 80s, arcade games were magical and as I told someone the other day, even though my memory is starting to fade, I can remember playing my first arcade game as if it were an hour ago (Space Invaders, late 70s, at a multiplex).

Another interesting point on the chart - you can clearly see that the Great Video Game Crash of 1983 affected more than just the Atari 2600 and debunks the pervasive myth that E.T. singlehandedly nearly destroyed gaming.

 

[Armenius]

The PC gaming industry has been claimed to be dead numerous times, and it certainly wasn't without companies like Microsoft and Sony from trying. I remember when a developer from Bungie claimed that PC was a dead platform. Wish I could find that video. There's a reason why Destiny 1 wasn't on PC. The whole PCMasterRace was a quick joke made by Ben "Yahtzee" Croshaw when he was mocking PC gamers. Like anyone who's been given a derogatory name, they owned it. You make it sound like PC gamers came up with the phrase. We turned a negative into a positive.

I don't recall that one, but I do remember Epic's bad mouthing of the PC platform when gen 7 consoles launched. I'm sure many PC gamers still do.

 

[StoleMyOwnCar]

According to your own chart, as far back as 1989, handhelds were dominant above everything. Handhelds are the progenitors to mobile.

More obvious evidence that PCMR is a false narrative and always has been. It’s just as dumb as actual racism. If that’s doom, then you should’ve accepted doom a long time ago. Just play games like everyone else and enjoy them regardless of platform.

You realize that PCMR is used in a humorously self-parodying sense, in most scenarios, right? You don't really have to look far to figure that out...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PC_Master_Race

In current parlance, the term is commonly used by computer enthusiasts both to proudly proclaim themselves as an elitist gamer group, as well as a humorous self-parody of their own firm belief in the technical supremacy of personal computers as a video gaming platform over video game consoles such as PlayStation and Xbox, often citing gaming PC features like high-end graphics, faster frame rates, more precise gameplay control (especially with first-person shooters), free online play, wider variety of downloadable games, backward compatibility, better modifiability, upgradability and customization, lower cost-over-time, open standards, multitasking and overall superior performance.[3][4] Popular imagery, discussion and media referencing the term also commonly belittles gamers who prefer playing consoles as "dirty console peasants", and describes people who prefer playing PC as the "PC master race".[5]

In terms of actual superiority, yes, PC does objectively do many things much better than any other device. Like these are purely numerical things that translate to a superior experience in one way or another. Graphics performance, etc (there's a huge list up there in the quote so I won't bother with the rest). They come with tradeoffs, obviously, which is why we have other markets. But I don't see why we need to get in a tizz about this here...

 

[DukenukemX]

But I don't see why we need to get in a tizz about this here...

He saw that the PC revenue was bigger than the console revenue and started to lose it. There's a reason why both Microsoft and Sony now port their games to PC, with Sony delaying their ports or just out right not releasing some of them. That is a stark contrast to how both of these companies treated PC gaming a decade ago. Halo and Halo 2 for example were released on PC, but when it came to Halo 3 a game released in 2007 was finally ported to PC in 2020. A game like Halo Infinite was released on PC and Xbox at the same time, only because the Xbox console at that point in time had lost so many sales compared to PS4 that Microsoft had no choice but to release their games on Windows. I'm almost certain that GTA6 won't be a PC for at least another year or two after Xbox and Playstation get it first, because that's what they did with GTAV. The only reason they do this is to double dip with people who happen to own both a PC and a console, but will buy the PC version because of course the graphics will look better on PC. Everything looks better on PC.

 

[Comixbooks]

I have a guy at work who plays online Billards or Pool against other players he gets really mad when he sinks the Que Ball.
This other Kid I work with plays games at night while walking to work one way to bring the customers in. I should talk I bought 2 phones for Pokemon Go back in 2016.I really liked that game I still do but haven't fired it up in like two years. I used to walk around the Walmart Parking lot catching Pokemon with this other guy.

 

[Mr Evil]

According to your own chart, as far back as 1989, handhelds were dominant above everything...

Others have already pointed out that you misread the chart, but didn't explain how: It sounds like you read the chart as if it was a line chart, where the absolute height of the line above the axis represents the value. It's actually a stacked area chart though, where it's the relative height of each coloured area that represents the value. So, roughly eyeballing it, in 1989 the total for the entire market was about $30B, of which $10B was console, $15B arcade, a few billion PC, and just a small sliver was handheld.

 

[That_Sound_Guy]

It hurts my soul to see mobile gaming so high. I wonder how much of that worth is gems, mats or other money sink in game purchases versus buying the game itself. The Fortnite model for example.

 

[UnknownSouljer]

You realize that PCMR is used in a humorously self-parodying sense, in most scenarios, right? You don't really have to look far to figure that out...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PC_Master_Race

It's only funny if you're in the in-crowd. Just like racists jokes are "incredibly funny" when you're in the in crowd. For more on this, look at Zarathustra's post. It's just another way to divide people at best and demean people at worst.

Just look through the years of PC gamers touting kb/m superiority on Reddit or being called "console peasants" and seeing how pissed people get and tell me that it's "just jokes". A lot of people don't take it as "just jokes", which means that again, it is "only" just jokes if you're not the person being made fun of.

In terms of actual superiority, yes, PC does objectively do many things much better than any other device. Like these are purely numerical things that translate to a superior experience in one way or another. Graphics performance, etc (there's a huge list up there in the quote so I won't bother with the rest). They come with tradeoffs, obviously, which is why we have other markets. But I don't see why we need to get in a tizz about this here...

Again that's dependent on what's wanted. Clearly by this chart what people want is to play games on a device that fits in their pocket and doesn't require a computer. For that usage case it literally doesn't matter what the "capacity" of the computer is, the phone is "superior" because it's capable of being in the pocket.

Which is again why this declaration is dumb. "I'm superior to you because you don't care about this set of specs I care about."

EDIT: spelling/grammar added link. Didn't change content.

 

[jardows]

Wow, some people need to go get a sense of humor.

 

[Bigbacon]

VR at 5 billion?? I am actually amazed at that one.

 

[MrC4]

VR at 5 billion?? I am actually amazed at that one.

VR Pron

 

[Darunion]

VR Pron

The industry that drives all media formats. Wonder how much it could influence consoles if permitted.

 

[GotNoRice]

It doesn't really seem like an apples-to-apples comparison.

One thing you notice when looking at the graph is that this is NOT a "transition".

The rise in consoles largely caused a transition away from arcade gaming. The rise in mobile largely caused a transition away from dedicated handheld gaming. But the rise in mobile gaming has NOT caused a noticeable decline in either PC or Console gaming. Again, because it's not an apples-to-apples comparison.

Mobile gaming has risen for obvious reasons:
It's a device that you're already carrying around with you, that you can whip out at any time to play some dumb little game. You can't do that with your PC or Console.
There are literally billions of people who can't afford a Gaming PC or Console, but they can afford a cheap phone.

But while those things create new avenues and opportunities to play games, it doesn't come at the expense of PC and Console gaming.

And there are also things that most wouldn't necessarily consider traditional gaming, but are no doubt bringing in tons of $$$. I know people with severe gambling issues who now spend countless hours each day playing micro-transaction slot-machine games on their phones and tablets, despite gambling being illegal in their state. They are spending hundreds if not thousands of dollars per month in many cases, and this is not rare.

 

[PeaKr]

Got it, you believe you're better than other people because you play games on a PC. You literally call people peasants based on what they own. You equate the value of people based on the monetary value of things.

No, you're assuming, conflating and over reacting.

 

[UnknownSouljer]

No, you're assuming, conflating and over reacting.

Cool, gas lighting SOP. Insult first, then say they're overreacting afterwards.

 

[DukenukemX]

Just look through the years of PC gamers touting kb/m superiority on Reddit or being called "console peasants" and seeing how pissed people get and tell me that it's "just jokes". A lot of people don't take it as "just jokes", which means that again, it is "only" just jokes if you're not the person being made fun of.

Ben "Yahtzee" Croshaw also said "console peasants". Specially he said that "Witcher is a PC exclusive and is designed to be as complex and unintuitive as possible so those dirty console playing peasants don't ruin it for the glorious PC gaming master race". It was meant to make fun of PC gamers, not praise them. Years later he regrets the name and wishes he called them "pc gaming dick slurp all stars". Sounds like PC gamers are gay, or $20 is $20. Also as racist as it sounds, the design Yahtzee gave was golden skin with white hair. What race is that?

View: https://youtu.be/xSJKffmWZSk?si=Biff8CsM8gH5ZlkB

Again that's dependent on what's wanted. Clearly by this chart what people want is to play games on a device that fits in their pocket and doesn't require a computer. For that usage case it literally doesn't matter what the "capacity" of the computer is, the phone is "superior" because it's capable of being in the pocket.

Mobile gamers are gaming on mobile because that's all they can afford. That and when they're at work or sitting on the toilet, this is the only thing they can take a moment to enjoy a quick game. You're not going to pull out a Nintendo Switch out of your pocket when you're at work, but a phone could be you texting or checking email, when you're really playing Candy Crush.

Which is again why this declaration is dumb. "I'm superior to you because you don't care about this set of specs I care about."

Specs don't matter to PC gamers. What's important is freedom. You're not limited to what Sony and Microsoft say you're allowed to run on the hardware you bought. You could game on a $500 PC made with stuff inferior to a PS5, and it would still be a better gaming experience. At first Microsoft did allow emulators on Xbox, until they didn't. Microsoft doesn't have that kind of power with Windows and Linux. You can't play PS3, PS2, and PS1 games on a PS5 but you can on PC. You can mod games, you can play much older games that is not able to played on new hardware due to legal reasons. You can play extremely popular online games that are still not on console, like League of Legends and World of Warcraft. The only people who argue that it's about hardware specs like owning a RTX 4090 are console gamers. Same people who argue that you can't hook up a PC to a TV when you could have always done this forever. Some people think the HDMI port is exclusive to consoles, and the USB port for their Xbox and Playstation controller could never work on a PC, when it works out of the box.

View: https://youtu.be/hbA7H3738BI?si=08zfEKpxrLtxt6Sa

It hurts my soul to see mobile gaming so high. I wonder how much of that worth is gems, mats or other money sink in game purchases versus buying the game itself. The Fortnite model for example.

Depends on how long before China cracks down on mobile gaming Gotcha practices. China proposes new gaming curbs which I'm totally in favor of. Tencent's stock dropped like a rock. Guarantee you that a lot of that mobile gaming profit is coming from China.


View: https://youtu.be/w1tkU5l53gw?si=N45j4KR4_VismCvC

 

[Ebernanut]

Thankfully I think the gaming industry has finally mostly realized that mobile gaming is a completely separate market than PC/console gaming and really even portables since their main draw these days is being closer to a console than the phone almost everyone is already carrying.

I can't recall any recent games with a companion app or any recent sp games with microtransactions, Deus Ex:MD is the last one I can think of for either(and funnily enough both). That mobile Diablo game is the last time I recall a publisher trying to hype a mobile game to their PC/console audience and it didn't go well, I believe the game did well financially but I'm sure that marketing stunt did more harm than good.

 

[1_rick]

I wonder how much of that worth is gems, mats or other money sink in game purchases versus buying the game itself.

For mobile? Probably nearly all of it; so many games are free, or under $5.

 

[Prince Valiant]

Wow, some people need to go get a sense of humor.

They'll have sand in their undies forever.

You realize that PCMR is used in a humorously self-parodying sense, in most scenarios, right? You don't really have to look far to figure that out...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PC_Master_Race

In terms of actual superiority, yes, PC does objectively do many things much better than any other device. Like these are purely numerical things that translate to a superior experience in one way or another. Graphics performance, etc (there's a huge list up there in the quote so I won't bother with the rest). They come with tradeoffs, obviously, which is why we have other markets. But I don't see why we need to get in a tizz about this here...

I don't know why it bothers people so much, it's the truth and it's not changing until the HW ceases being made.

 

[StoleMyOwnCar]

It's only funny if you're in the in-crowd. Just like racists jokes are "incredibly funny" when you're in the in crowd. For more on this, look at Zarathustra's post. It's just another way to divide people at best and demean people at worst.

Just look through the years of PC gamers touting kb/m superiority on Reddit or being called "console peasants" and seeing how pissed people get and tell me that it's "just jokes". A lot of people don't take it as "just jokes", which means that again, it is "only" just jokes if you're not the person being made fun of.

Isn't that just insecurity? You can't control what people get offended by. You go looking through Twitter, and literally any little thing said by anyone can be taken as a token of outrage. Because it goes the other way, too. Outrage culture people just want to exert control and/or enforce special considerations for themselves from the outside world.

PC Master Race is simply a self derisive moniker to probably refer to the various pitfalls and hoops PC gamers had to jump through in order to experience what they believe to be a superior overall experience.

Again that's dependent on what's wanted. Clearly by this chart what people want is to play games on a device that fits in their pocket and doesn't require a computer. For that usage case it literally doesn't matter what the "capacity" of the computer is, the phone is "superior" because it's capable of being in the pocket.

Which is again why this declaration is dumb. "I'm superior to you because you don't care about this set of specs I care about."

EDIT: spelling/grammar added link. Didn't change content.

I literally said in my post that there are tradeoffs. The self-derisive and humorous portion of the PCMR title is because we eschew many of the conveniences that other platforms offer (easier couch gaming and setup on consoles, with no fuss, cheaper, etc) in order to gain the additional graphics, fps, moddability, etc of the PC platform. That's the thing, the PC platform literally is one for just chasing a "superior" experience (and as you said, the superiority of such is wholly dependent on the user's preferances, but that's taken into account in the moniker), but giving up many conveniences for it. In terms of metrics such as visual fidelity and moddability and other such things, PC is indeed objectively superior. Even for a 2D game like Stardew Valley, it's incredibly hard to mod it on consoles, and the game is therefore (imo) much more enjoyable on PC... oooor on your phone and/or Steam Deck, since Steam Streaming exists and works quite well.

PC objectively runs games faster and at higher fidelity and with higher flexibility than any other platform. Does that mean it's the best? No, it can be quite painful to work with at times, and the flexibility often works against it. It's also really bloody expensive, especially with current GPU prices. That's all PCMR is: a moniker that outlines a (sometimes borderline masochistic) tendency to pursue the advantages of the platform even with those drawbacks.

Also as far as mobile games, from my experience that is a bit of a sore topic... because many mobile games are gacha games. If it proves anything, it may be that people are rather susceptible to gambling addictions, coupled with the fact that it's a device that's practically required in society. And as someone has said, if I'm on the toilet or at work and slacking off, I'm getting out my phone, probably not anything else. It is what it is.

Cool, gas lighting SOP. Insult first, then say they're overreacting afterwards.

I'll be honest, I feel like you're gaslighting yourself, here, not anyone else. It seems like you're getting hung up on the "master race" portion of the name. I get it, some people don't know what it is and can get offended. But that's the internet. It's an internet based term, and anything on the internet can and will be offensive to someone (and will be misinterpreted a million different ways by a million different other people).

 

[Armenius]

Wow, some people need to go get a sense of humor.

Humor was outlawed 3 years ago.

 

[LukeTbk]

I had not seen that it was inflation adjusted at first and I thought wow it took until the 2000s before reaching back 1982 levels without inflation, maybe it never reached it back yet and did not feel right.

 

[M76]

I don't think mobile games, especially revenue from mobile games can even be mentioned on the same page as real games. Yes I'm implying that mobile games are in a sense not real games. Now hold your horses for a minute. That doesn't mean you can't be a real gamer while playing mobile games. I mean that most of mobile game consumers are not conscious the same way as desktop or couch gamers are. Now if you are playing mobile games on a couch when nothing is preventing you from playing on PC or at least a console, then you need to have your brain examined.

But that digression aside, mobile games are designed as timewasters, when people have nothing better to do they start them up, and they get hooked, then comes the sinister part, they work like drugs, get people with lower willpower to unlock all the locked away content. It's literally designed like drugs. I'm not talking out of my ass, I checked out quite a few mobile games, and no matter what game it is, they share a common thread: predatory monetization. You get to play one level, and then either an ad pops up, offering you the option to pay to make it go away, or worse, it says to continue playing you need to buy access to the next level. Or you can pay for in-game character customization, or "boosters". Which is just code for paid cheating. No wonder revenue is up there, when they literally work like legal drugs. Give the first whiff for free, then demand more and more payment for the rest.

In stark contrast to this PC and console gaming requires a conscious and informed choice to get into, you don't just happen to buy a gaming PC or current gen console at random. And when you do you already know the games you are going to play, and there is no way in hell anyone will buy the hardware for some predatory microtransaction ridden garbage. So the high entry cost of the HW serves as kind of a gatekeeping mechanism for low tier garbage. I know, I know, predatory games also exist on PC, unfortunately, so this is not a mobile only problem, but I fully blame mobile for their existence. Like fortnite is made to have a laughably low HW requirement for the same reason, so even those with low tier office PCs can get in on the "fun".

TLDR: most of mobile game revenue comes from unwitting fools and children duped into getting hooked onto garbage tier games with predatory monetization, while most of console and PC game revenue comes from conscious consumers who just want to enjoy good games as a hobby.

 

[HockeyJon]

Mobile gaming being in the lead should be a surprise to exactly zero people:

1) A smartphone is becoming essential for a lot of things now, so almost everyone has one. You always have it with you, it's always in your pocket wherever you go. Apps are plug and play and basically everyone knows how to use it. Not everyone has, or wants to spend the money on, a gaming PC.

2) The games are typically easy to pick up and play. You don't need to grind for hours to level up your character in order to play Candy Crush.

3) You typically can't play your gaming PC when you're taking a dump.....typically....

 

[UnknownSouljer]

Isn't that just insecurity? You can't control what people get offended by. You go looking through Twitter, and literally any little thing said by anyone can be taken as a token of outrage. Because it goes the other way, too. Outrage culture people just want to exert control and/or enforce special considerations for themselves from the outside world.

PC Master Race is simply a self derisive moniker to probably refer to the various pitfalls and hoops PC gamers had to jump through in order to experience what they believe to be a superior overall experience.

Just because PC gamers make fun of themselves, it doesn't also mean that they don't make fun of other people. Even here, I've heard plenty about "console gamers" used derisively.

I literally said in my post that there are tradeoffs. The self-derisive and humorous portion of the PCMR title is because we eschew many of the conveniences that other platforms offer (easier couch gaming and setup on consoles, with no fuss, cheaper, etc) in order to gain the additional graphics, fps, moddability, etc of the PC platform. That's the thing, the PC platform literally is one for just chasing a "superior" experience (and as you said, the superiority of such is wholly dependent on the user's preferances, but that's taken into account in the moniker), but giving up many conveniences for it. In terms of metrics such as visual fidelity and moddability and other such things, PC is indeed objectively superior. Even for a 2D game like Stardew Valley, it's incredibly hard to mod it on consoles, and the game is therefore (imo) much more enjoyable on PC... oooor on your phone and/or Steam Deck, since Steam Streaming exists and works quite well.

PC objectively runs games faster and at higher fidelity and with higher flexibility than any other platform. Does that mean it's the best? No, it can be quite painful to work with at times, and the flexibility often works against it. It's also really bloody expensive, especially with current GPU prices. That's all PCMR is: a moniker that outlines a (sometimes borderline masochistic) tendency to pursue the advantages of the platform even with those drawbacks.

Also as far as mobile games, from my experience that is a bit of a sore topic... because many mobile games are gacha games. If it proves anything, it may be that people are rather susceptible to gambling addictions, coupled with the fact that it's a device that's practically required in society. And as someone has said, if I'm on the toilet or at work and slacking off, I'm getting out my phone, probably not anything else. It is what it is.

You're treading into a lot of territory that I'm not particularly interested in addressing. The short I'll say is that "it depends". Yeah, there are a ton of gacha games. Most of the games worth buying through single time purchase are not. All depends on what you're looking at.

I'll be honest, I feel like you're gaslighting yourself, here, not anyone else. It seems like you're getting hung up on the "master race" portion of the name. I get it, some people don't know what it is and can get offended. But that's the internet. It's an internet based term, and anything on the internet can and will be offensive to someone (and will be misinterpreted a million different ways by a million different other people).

Sure, and more accurately like most things on the internet, are inherently designed to be inflammatory. Or do we also need to get into a huge discussion about trolling and trolling culture, Reddit, and 4Chan?

I don't think mobile games, especially revenue from mobile games can even be mentioned on the same page as real games. Yes I'm implying that mobile games are in a sense not real games. Now hold your horses for a minute. That doesn't mean you can't be a real gamer while playing mobile games. I mean that most of mobile game consumers are not conscious the same way as desktop or couch gamers are. Now if you are playing mobile games on a couch when nothing is preventing you from playing on PC or at least a console, then you need to have your brain examined.

But that digression aside, mobile games are designed as timewasters, when people have nothing better to do they start them up, and they get hooked, then comes the sinister part, they work like drugs, get people with lower willpower to unlock all the locked away content. It's literally designed like drugs. I'm not talking out of my ass, I checked out quite a few mobile games, and no matter what game it is, they share a common thread: predatory monetization. You get to play one level, and then either an ad pops up, offering you the option to pay to make it go away, or worse, it says to continue playing you need to buy access to the next level. Or you can pay for in-game character customization, or "boosters". Which is just code for paid cheating. No wonder revenue is up there, when they literally work like legal drugs. Give the first whiff for free, then demand more and more payment for the rest.

In stark contrast to this PC and console gaming requires a conscious and informed choice to get into, you don't just happen to buy a gaming PC or current gen console at random. And when you do you already know the games you are going to play, and there is no way in hell anyone will buy the hardware for some predatory microtransaction ridden garbage. So the high entry cost of the HW serves as kind of a gatekeeping mechanism for low tier garbage. I know, I know, predatory games also exist on PC, unfortunately, so this is not a mobile only problem, but I fully blame mobile for their existence. Like fortnite is made to have a laughably low HW requirement for the same reason, so even those with low tier office PCs can get in on the "fun".

TLDR: most of mobile game revenue comes from unwitting fools and children duped into getting hooked onto garbage tier games with predatory monetization, while most of console and PC game revenue comes from conscious consumers who just want to enjoy good games as a hobby.

While I agree that most of the revenue coming out of mobile is gacha, there are tons of real games now available on iOS, including full blown desktop ports. To say nothing of console ports.

DoS2, Civ VI, Alien Isolation, RE:4 Remake, RE:Village, XCom 1/2. SE's entire library is basically on iOS at this point - every remaster from the PS era and before. Including hard to get titles like Valkyria Chronicles and Romancing Saga. It's also becoming a place to port vintage titles of all types or make remakes or indie. Like Under a Steel Sky, KOTOR 1/2, Dead Cells, Shovel Knight, Darkest Dungeon, GTA: III/Vice City/San Andreas, etc.

Because of Apple's investments in particular, it's starting to become a real platform. I've been doing my own testing on RE:4 and Village (noted in the Apple subforum) and the games are indistinguishable from PC. It's serious enough the DF even bothered to do multiple videos examining both on various Apple platforms (the relevant portion here being iOS and not macOS, but also macOS).

Anyway, I say that to say, especially with the recent full blown PC ports and SE ports, in some ways it's the best ways to experience those titles if you live any level of mobile lifestyle (which I know most people in the US don't, they don't get as an example that most people in a lot of Asian/European countries commute to work/school/whatever via public transportation and spend less time in general at home). From a graphics and just gameplay perspective, my iPad Pro for sure is better than Switch or Steam Deck - merely lacking the software aspect - which I realize is what you're and also I am talking about. (In case it isn't clear, obviously this requires the use of a controller, but it's not like that is "complicated") And people with newly minted iPhone 15 Pros can get a Backbone One and play all of these titles on the go with RT.

I think that mobile is going to continue down this path though. Maybe hardcore people will continue to eschew it, but I think companies like Sony and Microsoft have more to fear from Apple and Google than they do each other or PC gaming.

 

[M76]

While I agree that most of the revenue coming out of mobile is gacha, there are tons of real games now available on iOS, including full blown desktop ports. To say nothing of console ports.

DoS2, Civ VI, Alien Isolation, RE:4 Remake, RE:Village, XCom 1/2. SE's entire library is basically on iOS at this point - every remaster from the PS era and before. Including hard to get titles like Valkyria Chronicles and Romancing Saga. It's also becoming a place to port vintage titles of all types or make remakes or indie. Like Under a Steel Sky, KOTOR 1/2, Dead Cells, Shovel Knight, Darkest Dungeon, GTA: III/Vice City/San Andreas, etc.

That is an offshoot of mobile gaming, and not a new one. I already played games on my Symbian "smart" phone in the mid 2000s using ScummVM. The existence of ports of real games does not exonerate the other 99.99% of the mobile gaming industry.

Because of Apple's investments in particular, it's starting to become a real platform. I've been doing my own testing on RE:4 and Village (noted in the Apple subforum) and the games are indistinguishable from PC. It's serious enough the DF even bothered to do multiple videos examining both on various Apple platforms (the relevant portion here being iOS and not macOS, but also macOS).

I don't think it will ever become a real platform, because games and apps that are specifically targeted to mobile will always have the same predatory nature. The only ones less susceptible are multiplatform games, but then why would you want to play a game on the worst available platform, if you have other options?

Anyway, I say that to say, especially with the recent full blown PC ports and SE ports, in some ways it's the best ways to experience those titles if you live any level of mobile lifestyle (which I know most people in the US don't, they don't get as an example that most people in a lot of Asian/European countries commute to work/school/whatever via public transportation and spend less time in general at home). From a graphics and just gameplay perspective, my iPad Pro for sure is better than Switch or Steam Deck - merely lacking the software aspect - which I realize is what you're and also I am talking about. (In case it isn't clear, obviously this requires the use of a controller, but it's not like that is "complicated") And people with newly minted iPhone 15 Pros can get a Backbone One and play all of these titles on the go with RT.

That's the only way to experience those titles on the road, but it is still the worst experience possible. I can't imagine playing Alien Isolation on a crowded bus (I can't imagine doing anything on public transport that requires my undivided attention).
No matter how mobile your lifestyle is, you can squeeze in 20 minutes of gaming after getting home, which is an infinitely superior experience. And there is no risk of being robbed because your ears are plugged with noise cancelling earbuds and you are fixated on your telephone screen.

I think that mobile is going to continue down this path though. Maybe hardcore people will continue to eschew it, but I think companies like Sony and Microsoft have more to fear from Apple and Google than they do each other or PC gaming.

Sorry, but that's just laughable. Sony and Microsoft have zero to fear from Google and Apple unless they get a foothold in console or PC gaming.
PC and console gaming is on the rise, mobile is not converting anyone from home gaming. In a way mobile even helps PC gaming remain clean by being more attractive to freemium garbage.

 

[UnknownSouljer]

That is an offshoot of mobile gaming, and not a new one. I already played games on my Symbian "smart" phone in the mid 2000s using ScummVM. The existence of ports of real games does not exonerate the other 99.99% of the mobile gaming industry.

Wasn't trying to.

I don't think it will ever become a real platform, because games and apps that are specifically targeted to mobile will always have the same predatory nature. The only ones less susceptible are multiplatform games, but then why would you want to play a game on the worst available platform, if you have other options?

I covered that.

That's the only way to experience those titles on the road, but it is still the worst experience possible. I can't imagine playing Alien Isolation on a crowded bus (I can't imagine doing anything on public transport that requires my undivided attention).
No matter how mobile your lifestyle is, you can squeeze in 20 minutes of gaming after getting home, which is an infinitely superior experience. And there is no risk of being robbed because your ears are plugged with noise cancelling earbuds and you are fixated on your telephone screen.

You say that because you live here in North America. I've spent a lot of time in Japan and intend to move out there (preferably soon, depends on a few cards... anyway). Everyone spends several hours a day on public transportation. Stepping onto a subway/train literally everyone is staring at their phone (intently enough that I could film them with a fairly large camera and often times not have them notice, much to my surprise). And if they aren't looking at their phone they're reading (or reading on their phone, tons of people use it for the various Manga platforms). And if not that, sleeping. It's a minority that are having a conversation, and that's generally a faux pas that could be annoying other people around you (from a cultural perspective). I generally only see people talking not during rush hour when trains are more empty. Yes I see Switches on trains. I even saw a SteamDeck, once.

So, just because you wouldn't do it, doesn't mean that there isn't entire populations that would/do and/or already are. I literally don't see the point in arguing with you about it because it's reality. Whereas for you it's just some hypothetical.

Sorry, but that's just laughable. Sony and Microsoft have zero to fear from Google and Apple unless they get a foothold in console or PC gaming.
PC and console gaming is on the rise, mobile is not converting anyone from home gaming. In a way mobile even helps PC gaming remain clean by being more attractive to freemium garbage.

Agree to disagree. Apple has built something that is truly multi-platform. As has Google. Shall we scroll back up to the OP and look at the graph of people gaming?
But somehow using bluetooth on a future AppleTV provided actual games that are worth playing exist is somehow crazy to you? And that no one at all would then find it attractive to be able to pickup their phone and continue playing through cloud saves? Okay. RE:4 with RT looks and plays pretty well to me. Apparently it's a far fetched idea for every new Capcom release to come to Apple platforms?

To me it just sounds more like extreme anti-mobile bias rather than an actual analysis of the situation. Apple is making a 'very good' amount from their services division, and they want that to continue. The way of helping that continue has been making iOS better for and at gaming. Including creating Apple Arcade (which, yes they're making nice subs off of), making universal controller support and expanding the MFI program, Metal 3, and the rest of their software libraries programming stack all designed to make porting even easier.

And the reason why it's the way for their services division to continue making money is because statistically games have made them far more money on iOS than any other type of software. By wide margin. Apple makes more money through the App Store from games than all the console makers from console games combined.

All that it would take is continued investment and time. Both of which Apple has.

 

[M76]

Wasn't trying to.

Sure sounds like it as if you want to legitimize mobile phones as a gaming platform that can compete with PC or console.

I covered that.

Even if we accept your anecdotal evidence of it being graphically indistinguishable from PC at face value that still does not address the core issues with mobile as a gaming platform.

You say that because you live here in North America. I've spent a lot of time in Japan and intend to move out there (preferably soon, depends on a few cards... anyway). Everyone spends several hours a day on public transportation. Stepping onto a subway/train literally everyone is staring at their phone (intently enough that I could film them with a fairly large camera and often times not have them notice, much to my surprise). And if they aren't looking at their phone they're reading (or reading on their phone, tons of people use it for the various Manga platforms). And if not that, sleeping. It's a minority that are having a conversation, and that's generally a faux pas that could be annoying other people around you. I generally only see that not during rush hour when trains are more empty. Yes I see Switches on trains. I even saw a SteamDeck, once.

I don't, never even been to North America. Even if there is no public safety concern, to properly enjoy books, games, movies or even TV Shows you need a relaxing and calm environment. Some people want to play games on the go, be my guest, but nobody is convincing me that the experience is on par with playing at home in a relaxing environment on a big screen with full sized physical input devices.

So, just because you wouldn't do it, doesn't mean that there isn't entire populations that would/do and/or already are. I literally don't see the point in arguing with you about it because it's reality. Whereas for you it's just some hypothetical.

The argument is not about whether it is possible or not, but whether it is a real gaming platform. And I specifically mean mobile phones, not Steam Deck or other handhelds, that is a separate category completely unrelated to my post about mobile gaming. The infographic also shows them as a separate category, so IDK why are you using them as arguments for mobile (phony) gaming.

Agree to disagree. Apple has built something that is truly multi-platform. As has Google. Shall we scroll back up to the OP and look at the graph of people gaming?

You are completely ignoring what I said in my first post, that the revenue comes from the predatory monetization rampant in mobile games.

But somehow using bluetooth on a future AppleTV provided actual games that are worth playing exist is somehow crazy to you? And that no one at all would then find it attractive to be able to pickup their phone and continue playing through cloud saves? Okay. RE:4 with RT looks and plays pretty well to me. Apparently it's a far fetched idea for every new Capcom release to come to Apple platforms?

What on earth does apple TV have to do with mobile gaming? You are starting to sound like an apple fanboy grasping at straws here. Even if all PS5 and PC games came to iphones in the future and they looked the same (completely ludicrous) that would not make the majority of the mobile gaming industry any less freemium sludge. Offering langouste at mcd won't suddenly make it a five star restaurant, the 99.99% will still go there for the big mac and the cheeseburger.

To me it just sounds more like extreme anti-mobile bias rather than an actual analysis of the situation.

I talk about predatory freemium, play to earn, and other garbage, and your argument basically is yeah, but look at these games that are not a problem that make up the tiniest of tiny fraction of mobile game revenue. You call that a proper analysis of the situation? Yeah not all games that exist on mobile are garbage, only most.

Apple is making a 'very good' amount from their services division, and they want that to continue. The way of helping that continue has been making iOS better for and at gaming. Including creating Apple Arcade (which, yes they're making nice subs off of), making universal controller support and expanding the MFI program, Metal 3, and the rest of their software libraries programming stack all designed to make porting even easier.

IDK what do you mean by services division or very good amount. I said in my original post that mobile can be a platform for real games, but unfortunately most of it is garbage. So I really don't know what is it that you are trying to prove here.

And the reason why it's the way for their services division to continue making money is because statistically games have made them far more money on iOS than any other type of software. By wide margin. Apple makes more money through the App Store from games than all the console makers from console games combined.

Apple store terms demand that any app allowed in the store can only have in app purchases if it goes through the app store. They don't just enable the predatory monetization, they demand a cut from it. So don't try to imply that apple is doing some great work here. Mobile could make 10 times the money as console and PC gaming combined, it will still be undistilled garbage. It's just the nature of the platform attracting these types of games.

All that it would take is continued investment and time. Both of which Apple has.

All what would take? People don't play game on mobile because it is their choice gaming platform, they do it because they already have a phone. I'd wager that if you asked most people who play games on mobile casually and even spend on microtransactions they don't actually consider themselves gamers.

 

[UnknownSouljer]

Sure sounds like it as if you want to legitimize mobile phones as a gaming platform that can compete with PC or console.

Well, as the chart above shows, it already is.

Even if we accept your anecdotal evidence of it being graphically indistinguishable from PC at face value that still does not address the core issues with mobile as a gaming platform.

You can see for yourself, it's not as if anything Apple does ever doesn't have dozens of YouTube videos about it.

I don't, never even been to North America. Even if there is no public safety concern, to properly enjoy books, games, movies or even TV Shows you need a relaxing and calm environment. Some people want to play games on the go, be my guest, but nobody is convincing me that the experience is on par with playing at home in a relaxing environment on a big screen with full sized physical input devices.

I have nothing to say about your preferences. They are the best for you.

There are other people out there that like different things. It's why, apparently, people on the [H] didn't understand the Switch to begin with and see the fact that it's mobile as pointless, vs obviously a ton of people that use it for that purpose. To the point that there is a lower-cost mobile only Switch version that cannot be docked and used on a TV..

So I don't see the point in talking about this. You're arguing your preference here, but handhelds, which preceded mobile gaming "existed". Gaming on a mobile phone is just the newer logical extension of that form of gaming. Regardless of how you want to classify it.

The argument is not about whether it is possible or not, but whether it is a real gaming platform. And I specifically mean mobile phones, not Steam Deck or other handhelds, that is a separate category completely unrelated to my post about mobile gaming. The infographic also shows them as a separate category, so IDK why are you using them as arguments for mobile (phony) gaming.

You can call it that, but it's artificial segmentation. You'll also note that handhelds died on the chart. It's not even visible.

Here's another series of things that died for most audiences: graphical calculators, point and shoot cameras, mini-flashlights, answering machines, pagers, a countless list actually. What were they replaced with? Mobile phones. You can say that mobile phones aren't the same thing as a "Gameboy" but mobile phones have utterly decimated the hand-held market the same way they've decimated the point and shoot market. It absolutely for sure destroyed the DS.

It's also interesting to note here that Nintendo put their eggs in the mobile basket and specifically not primarily in the "home console" market. Which apparently is a market that you feel it's safe to ignore simply because "playing at home in a relaxing environment on a big screen with full sized physical input devices" is the only way to play games in a way that people enjoy. Nintendo also clearly disagrees with you about mobile gaming.

You are completely ignoring what I said in my first post, that the revenue comes from the predatory monetization rampant in mobile games.

I just don't see a need to address or talk about it. I don't disagree.

What on earth does apple TV have to do with mobile gaming? You are starting to sound like an apple fanboy grasping at straws here. Even if all PS5 and PC games came to iphones in the future and they looked the same (completely ludicrous) that would not make the majority of the mobile gaming industry any less freemium sludge. Offering langouste at mcd won't suddenly make it a five star restaurant, the 99.99% will still go there for the big mac and the cheeseburger.

Okay, if every console game came to iPhone and looked the same you don't think that would make a difference... at all? I'm the one grasping at straws? Okay.

Well I guess Apple are idiots too. As it's their money they're spending to build the things I mentioned (improve their software libraries, porting libraries, controllers, latency, basically huge changes to the entire software stack). One of which is to pay Capcom to port this stuff to iOS. So I suppose you should mail their board and let them know they don't know what they're doing.

I talk about predatory freemium, play to earn, and other garbage, and your argument basically is yeah, but look at these games that are not a problem that make up the tiniest of tiny fraction of mobile game revenue. You call that a proper analysis of the situation? Yeah not all games that exist on mobile are garbage, only most.

If we look at total games period it's more or less always been that way. Should we frame the "Wii" the same way because likely 5:1 or perhaps even 10:1 games made for the platform was shovelware? Steam hosts 10's of thousands of games. Do you really want to play the game of how many cynical asset flips there are and stupid Hentai games?

Directly to the point: just because that stuff exists, nothing good can? Yeah, I would say that is a bad assessment and a bad take.
I have been able to play good handheld games just fine on iOS devices without playing gatcha or digital shovelware. It must be magic that I can play RE:Village and somehow not download Genshin Impact.

IDK what do you mean by services division or very good amount. I said in my original post that mobile can be a platform for real games, but unfortunately most of it is garbage. So I really don't know what is it that you are trying to prove here.

See above. You don't seem to care about this, so moving on.

Apple store terms demand that any app allowed in the store can only have in app purchases if it goes through the app store. They don't just enable the predatory monetization, they demand a cut from it. So don't try to imply that apple is doing some great work here. Mobile could make 10 times the money as console and PC gaming combined, it will still be undistilled garbage. It's just the nature of the platform attracting these types of games.

You missed the point. The point is they want that to continue. They have a monetary interest in making their platform good for actual gaming. I'm not assigning them any kind of benevolence, it's pure monetary interest.

Right now RE:4 remake is $29.99 on iOS as a universal app (which means it will also be downloadable on macOS, AppleTV, etc for a single purchase price). It's testing the waters for these game devs to see whether or not there is profit to be made from having their titles on the platform.

You also may not care, but these game devs certainly are interested in being able to find a new source of revenue that is bigger than PC's, that everyone has, that they can sell $60 games to. Especially if it's easier to port to than other platforms and can hit both handhelds and desktops simultaneously, which they can.

They can develop their games for the platform just fine. And ignore apparently all the other software on the platform(s) that you apparently can't. Even though you seem to do that just fine when it comes to all the PC garbage shovelware that exists.

All what would take? People don't play game on mobile because it is their choice gaming platform, they do it because they already have a phone.

That's like saying people only take photos on their phone because they don't have access to another camera. You know, it could actually be both. That is if you don't want to admit that for most people cellphone cameras are good enough to take their daily life pictures on and similarly cellphones are plenty enough for most ordinary folks to game on. iPhone 15 Pro has faster hardware than PS4 Pro (with some features that are current gen such as RT, AI upscaling, etc). It's not as if from a performance perspective it's that far behind current gen.

I'd wager that if you asked most people who play games on mobile casually and even spend on microtransactions they don't actually consider themselves gamers.

Who cares? Old people who played bowling on the Wii also didn't consider themselves gamers. That console was a Nintendo smash precisely because they saw opportunity outside of just trying to cater to the hardcore. Blue ocean strategy.