• Some users have recently had their accounts hijacked. It seems that the now defunct EVGA forums might have compromised your password there and seems many are using the same PW here. We would suggest you UPDATE YOUR PASSWORD and TURN ON 2FA for your account here to further secure it. None of the compromised accounts had 2FA turned on.
    Once you have enabled 2FA, your account will be updated soon to show a badge, letting other members know that you use 2FA to protect your account. This should be beneficial for everyone that uses FSFT.

4890 or 285?

H

heatthegreat

Limp Gawd
Joined
Oct 12, 2007
Messages
424
Since [H]ard hasn't done a 4890 compared to a 285 ( no clue why, they decide to put the 280 against it instead)I decided to take the Apr 1st 4890 review and the MSI SuperPipe GTX 285 review conducted on Apr 9th and took the benches of 3 games from each to compare each other. The 4890 is actually either equal or slightly slower ( like 5-10%) . Here are some examples :


apr 1st (asus)
4890

fallout 3 :

2560x1600 8xAA 16AF
28(min) 60(max) 47.6(avg) for the Apr 1st 4890

29(min) 52(max) 41 (avg) for the Apr 9th GTX285

farcry 2:
2560x1600 2xAA 16AF
30(min) 55(max) 40.6 (avg) 4890 apr 1

2560x1600 4xAA 16AF
27(min) 54(max) 40 ( avg ) GTX285

Fear 2
2560x1600 8XMSAA 16AF
29(min) 70(max) 52(avg) 4890

2560x1600 8xMSAA 16af
27(min) 80( max) 53(avg) MSI GTX 285


Now, is it right to conclude that they are pretty close ( and this is the 4890 at stock according to hardocp) ? And why whenever the question pops up, when money isnt a issue, people either recommend the 280 or the 285? I dont get it, is there something Im missing. This is the factor that has me on the fence. why do people prefer the 280(285) over the 4890? Is it just preference with green and red? Or is there something that they know that I dont? The sooner you all can help me, the sooner the 4890 or 285 will be in the mail :p Btw, other sites show the 4890 beating both of those cards as well, and when OC'd , its the better card for the price by far.
 
Speaking as a Nvidia fan...

1 - Drivers are better on Nvidia's side of the fence.

2 - PhysX.

3 - Usually an EVGA of BFG brand card, both known for good support and step up programs.

I would go for the 285. ;)
 
BS on the drivers everyone has good bad experiences, i have worse luck with nvidia drivers than ATI,

the cards $100 less trades blows with a 285. Much more fun card to OC and having both cards at one time or another, IMHO better IQ on the 4890.

ohh and who gives a shit about physx
 
Well, that is a rather small collection of games. If you widen the range, the 285 will come out on top without much trouble. Still though, there's no doubt that the 4890 is an excellent card, and that the 285 isn't as attractive as before. If I had to pick one, I'd take the 285. If I had to *pay* for one, I'd take the 4890( or 275 ).
 
Rattle said:
ohh and who gives a shit about physx
Click to expand...

That's an easy one...

These guys do!

http://www.nvidia.com/object/physx_new.html


http://www.nvidia.com/object/physx_faq.html

What game engines support PhysX technology?
Unreal Engine 3, Gamebryo, Vision, Instinct, Trinigy, Diesel, Unity 3D, Hero, BigWorld.

What game publishers have licensed PhysX for their global studios?
EA, THQ, 2K Games, Sega and others.

Nvidia + Adobe Announce GPU Acceleration
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=226385

Some Big Players!! :D
 
Raap said:
Well, that is a rather small collection of games. If you widen the range, the 285 will come out on top without much trouble.
Click to expand...

I don't think this small selection of games are very biased towards Radeon cards. This is pretty much the result i would expect for a larger selection also.
 
lol you forgot about mirrors edge and cryostasis another couple of games to add to that list of TOTAL SUCK GAMES. UT doesnt even do anything with physx lmao

BY the way gpgpu has nothing to do with physx, anyone that buys a nvidia card because they feel like they will be missing something because of physx, unless they play mirrors edge all day everyday IS A HUGE ASS. not sure whos better at the new "adobe accelleration" yet, but that works with everything, and in most people's eyes that actually use gpu's from both companies like myself, ATI is much better with accelleration in PS C4 than nvidia is currently.
 
Last edited:
TalonMan said:
Speaking as a Nvidia fan...

1 - Drivers are better on Nvidia's side of the fence.

2 - PhysX.

3 - Usually an EVGA of BFG brand card, both known for good support and step up programs.

I would go for the 285. ;)
Click to expand...

1. drivers suck.. sorry to say but nvidia's drivers have just gone down the crapper since the 180.xx drivers..

2. physX only matter for benchmarks like the useless 3dmark06 and vantage..

3. i can agree with that one..


in all honesty.. if you have money to burn.. the 285 is a better choice then the 4890.. but if you want to say you own a 1ghz+ gpu.. then get the 4890.. :p but in the end it all depends on your display size as well.. if you own a 30" display.. then the gtx 285 is the better choice.. if you own a 24" display the 4890 is a better choice for the money.. if you own smaller then a 24" then the gtx 275/260 or 4870 are better choices..
 
TalonMan said:
That's an easy one...

These guys do!

http://www.nvidia.com/object/physx_new.html


http://www.nvidia.com/object/physx_faq.html

What game engines support PhysX technology?
Unreal Engine 3, Gamebryo, Vision, Instinct, Trinigy, Diesel, Unity 3D, Hero, BigWorld.

What game publishers have licensed PhysX for their global studios?
EA, THQ, 2K Games, Sega and others.

Nvidia + Adobe Announce GPU Acceleration
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=226385

Some Big Players!! :D
Click to expand...

But the problem is that hardware accelerated PhysX has not exactly exhibited the performance increases it was marketed towards unless you basically match that 285 with another 285 or 275 dedicated for PhysX, which ends up being an expensive proposition when you should be using SLi instead.

The adobe announcement seems vague as flash has had Hardware acceleration for a while. I think it was more of an announcement to have acceleration on smartphones (utilizing Tegra) which really don't have DirectX capabilities (such as programmable shaders) that general PCs do have. Smartphone Flash really isn't pertinent here.

Pricewise, if you can find a 285 for the price of a 4890, for god's sake buy it. Otherwise, the question is really "What do you want to do with your video card ?" and "How much do you want to spend?". Honestly, the 275 and the HD4890 are closer comparisons. The card that's supposed to compete with the 285 is the the 4870X2 and both are prices comparatively.
 
Framerate cap in PhysX games with an ati card. You could use another cheaper Nvidia card as your PhysX card. You're probably using more power and an extra slot with that solution. All this can be solved with gtx285. The price difference is what would drive me away from the 285 if I was in your shoes. The 285 will run cooler and quieter than the 4890. One thing is that customer service is usually better with the Nvidia partners in my experience. Take it for what it worth from an Nvidia "fanboy."
 
Rattle said:
lol you forgot about mirrors edge and cryostasis another couple of games to add to that list of TOTAL SUCK GAMES. UT doesnt even do anything with physx lmao

BY the way gpgpu has nothing to do with physx, anyone that buys a nvidia card because they feel like they will be missing something because of physx, unless they play mirrors edge all day everyday IS A HUGE ASS. not sure whos better at the new "adobe accelleration" yet, but that works with everything, and in most people's eyes that actually use gpu's from both companies like myself, ATI is much better with accelleration in PS C4 than nvidia is currently.
Click to expand...

Such hate toward something Nvidia gave us for free...

Wow!

As far as buying a card just to run as a dedicated processor is a personal choice. I do think they add extra performance in PhysX games, and this is the [H] correct?

I just wanted a 295, and already had a 280. I can't run SLI on my X38 mobo, so I was glad to still be able to run dedicated PhysX on the 280. The more numbers I produce, the more I realize just how much it is helping my performance. I hope PhysX support by the Big Boy's continues... :cool:

Running a 295 for Graphics, and a 280 for Dedicated PhysX is fun. :D
 
Last edited:
Hate? I have had 260's, a 280, a 285 and a gtx 295
those are nvidia gpu's i have had in my rigs from g200 series alone...

the 4890 is not much louder than 260 or 285, to keep my temps at 60c i had to run at 100% fan, to keep 4890 at 55c max i run 50% and its the same as far as loud/quiet, I rma'd with sapphire and vistiontek and they were same speed as eVGA.....
 
any kind of non gpgpu type game physics should be open source, and i dont really like any of the physx games so it doesnt apply to me. depends on what you do, are you a fps online multiplayer? well then your not gonan need/use physx, do you play cryostasis or mirrors edge over and over? those are ther only types of games that really utilize physx and a few others. UT3 physx is a joke. I wouldnt make a purchase choice based on physx if your not going to use it. especially since you can get reference 4890's for as low as 170 ! By the time games actually use some kind of real physx and the games are valid and have replayability, you'll have moved onto a new faster gpu, and hopefully physx will be dead and open source.
 
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/foru...6400-nvidia-geforce-gtx-275-896mb-review.html

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/foru...16365-sapphire-radeon-hd-4890-1gb-review.html

reviews done with stock cards all across the board, gtx 285, 275 included, all resolutions and min and max frames....

cheapest 285 i seen was a dell deal for 260 something that didnt pan out for most and right now you can get 4890's for 185, i seen them as low as 170 shipped....

if you wanna go green find deals on gtx 260 216 cards for 150 MAX... MAX they are well worth that and excellent balls for the money, the other cards above it, yes all 3 are not worth more money for the marginal performance increase.

infact if tri SLI actually scaled in games i would have 3 gtx 260's
 
after reading that bit tech review, i think Im going to go with the 4890 . my resolution is 1920x1200 and at that res, I plan on getting the toxic version (atomic is out of stock on newegg.) which runs at 960mhz ( raelly dont think 40hz will make too much a difference) I would overclock my self, but then I would have to get a aftermarket cooler because of the noise and i heard the vapor-x is really quiet and nice which would bring the price to same anyway. To me, Phys-x isn't big enough yet warrant me spending a extra 80-100. It's kind of like getting a DX10 card when it came out when no games actually utilized and when it did, people just ran DX9 because the game ran better.
 
4890. You can always buy a 9400/9500GT or one of those GPUs as your PhysX card added later.
 
heatthegreat said:
Since [H]ard hasn't done a 4890 compared to a 285 ( no clue why, they decide to put the 280 against it instead)I decided to take the Apr 1st 4890 review and the MSI SuperPipe GTX 285 review conducted on Apr 9th and took the benches of 3 games from each to compare each other. The 4890 is actually either equal or slightly slower ( like 5-10%) . Here are some examples :


apr 1st (asus)
4890

fallout 3 :

2560x1600 8xAA 16AF
28(min) 60(max) 47.6(avg) for the Apr 1st 4890

29(min) 52(max) 41 (avg) for the Apr 9th GTX285

farcry 2:
2560x1600 2xAA 16AF
30(min) 55(max) 40.6 (avg) 4890 apr 1

2560x1600 4xAA 16AF
27(min) 54(max) 40 ( avg ) GTX285

Fear 2
2560x1600 8XMSAA 16AF
29(min) 70(max) 52(avg) 4890

2560x1600 8xMSAA 16af
27(min) 80( max) 53(avg) MSI GTX 285


Now, is it right to conclude that they are pretty close ( and this is the 4890 at stock according to hardocp) ? And why whenever the question pops up, when money isnt a issue, people either recommend the 280 or the 285? I dont get it, is there something Im missing. This is the factor that has me on the fence. why do people prefer the 280(285) over the 4890? Is it just preference with green and red? Or is there something that they know that I dont? The sooner you all can help me, the sooner the 4890 or 285 will be in the mail :p Btw, other sites show the 4890 beating both of those cards as well, and when OC'd , its the better card for the price by far.
Click to expand...

well to be honest the 285 is not worth the money here. both the 4890 and the 275 are a better bang for the buck. right now I would give the nod to the 4890 but that changes fast with pricing

I have to agree with some of the Nvidia hate about (partially), both companies have their share of driver issues, to say one is better then the other is largely fanboy talk (or just bad experiences). its more a case of pick your poisons. Nvidia does have one real advantage here though, they usually beat ATI to support new games (better developer relations) and if this a factor to you then is real consideration.

as far as physx goes don't bother, its a neat technology and the demo are neat but that is really all its good for right now. I would rather use havok (or infernal) and have the better eye candy.
 
i will admit that in the past ATI sucked for new game support, but there's been many hotfixes now for that, they are changing their ways about it.

Last year last i wasnt impressed with alot of their driver releases, 8.6 was the best for me all the way thru the end of the year.... 9.4's have been stunning for me on vista 64 and windows 7 both single and crossfire.
 
Well there are 2 gtx 285 for 275 right now that I'm thnking about getting .... but they are re certified. Are recertifieds good from newegg ? One is xfx with a 1 year warranty which I think is a very good buy considering I was gonna spend around the same for a 4890 and aftermarket cooler
 
i dont see the validity in buying one for 275

mine clock to 960 on stock volts, if set it to 1.36 like the one your paying 275 for is, they would do over 1000, fan speed at 40% is just fine on these and not loud. So... why spend 275 when you can get one for 175? thats nuts, you might as well just buy a new 285 if your gonna spend that you can get them new for 275.
 
i c, I cant find a 285 for 275 anywhere, they are on newegg at the lowest for 319 and I think thats after rebate.
 
Be careful about comparing the April 1 4890 vs 280 review to the April 9 280 vs 285 review. If you look at the Test Setup page, you'll see they used systems with different CPUs (overclocked to the same speed), RAM (one system had DDR2, one had DDR3) and drivers (185.63 vs 185.66). I even notice that the shader clocks of the two 280s are different (1292Mhz vs 1296Mhz). Maybe these differences aren't much, but they still technically invalidate directly comparing the two tests.

That being said, in the first test, the 280 was equal or a bit better than the 4890 in all but FEAR 2, while in the second test, the 285 was a bit better than the 280 in only 2 games, neither of which was FEAR 2. In the first test, the GTX 275 was either equal or a bit slower than the 4890. So it seems reasonable to me to think that the performance ranking goes GTX 275<4890=GTX 280<GTX 285, with the understanding that we are talking about a very thin slice of performance with the 4890 overlapping the nVidia cards in both directions.

As I type this, on newegg the lowest prices on these four cards are:
eVGA GTX 275 $220 after MIR, free shipping, free Cryostasis game, lifetime warranty
eVGA GTX 280 $220 after MIR, free shipping, free COD:WAW game, 2 year warranty
PNY GTX 285 $285 after MIR, free shipping - but it says "weekend savings", implying we'll see different prices on monday; other GTX 285s, including eVGA, BFG and MSI, start at $315-$320 after MIR with several choices for games and warranties.
I'd like to note that I've found eVGA and MSI rebates to be very reliable (100 percent so far on about 6 different cards) and have heard no different on the forums here.

4890 pricing: the cheapest HIS 4890 is the cheapest 4890 at $200 after $20 MIR with free STALKER Clear Sky game, but HIS MIRs are very unreliable and that particular HIS doesn't have free shipping, so you'd probably end up paying $230 for it. Most of the others range from $205 to $215 after MIR. If you want an XFX 4890, they are way up at $250.

The GTX 285 is too expensive. The GTX 275 has its points over the GTX 280 despite the slightly lower performance - it doesn't need an 8-pin PCI-E power connector, uses significantly less power, idles cooler (but runs a bit hotter under load), and has a better warranty; it's up to you to decide between the two since they have an equal price. The 4890 is up to $15 less than the GTX 275/280, but I've got to say that the makers that sell them at those prices are a lot less reliable in support than eVGA.

After all that, my personal choice would be the GTX 275.

Edit: just wanted to note that recent newegg reviews about MSI cards are complaining about rebates not being honored.
 
Last edited:
cheapest 4890 I saw @ newegg was sapphire 205 with free shipping and 15MIR, so thats 190 to your door, but that price is only good till tomorrow I believe,

choices, choices :D

Sam
 
I have a 4890 right now, and the ONLY reason I'm trying to get rid of it is for folding. It seems to outperform the 285 in just about everything, while being about $100 cheaper.
 
Reading through that Hardware Canucks 4890 Roundup again, and can't help but be persuaded by how attract the 275 FTW, or even the 285 FTW from EVGA now looks ><.

DECISIONS, decisions.. Any user input? Only thing that concerns me is that the Nvidias' are referenced cooled - if I have the money for the 285 FTW can I go wrong for fastest single card on the market?
 
You are going to get pretty much the same performance and gaming experience no matter what you chose. Just go with the better deal. Unfortunatley the 4890 and gtx285 are priced about the same regardless, but the 4890 was 179 AR recently, think that was on ewiz or something.
 
Both are great.
Nvidia support game companies much more than ATI (TWIMTBP program) which results in better/more stable drivers at launch (easy example GTAIV).
If you broaden your game tests you'll find the GTX285 has the upper hand - but not by much.
I don't know which I'd pick right now.
I'm set to buy real soon and I'm considering the Sapphire 4890 Toxic or a BFG GTX285.
Obviously price wise the 4890 wins, but the GTX285 should fit better in my case (top power connectors compensate for length), and some games like GTAIV are still better on Nvidia.
On the other hand TF2 issues and flickering texture issues seem to plague Nvida's latest drivers,,,
Meh.. I'm no help in this discussion..sorry:confused:
 
TalonMan said:
Speaking as a Nvidia fan...

1 - Drivers are better on Nvidia's side of the fence.

2 - PhysX.

3 - Usually an EVGA of BFG brand card, both known for good support and step up programs.

I would go for the 285. ;)
Click to expand...

1. Sadly I gotta agree. I had a 4870 and was not impressed with the drivers, although ATI seemed to get more frequent driver updates which is nice.

2. Some people, like myself, have a PhysX card, although few will boast about it these days.

3. XFX has recently started making ATI cards so there is one decent option.

If I were buying a video card right now I would go witht he 4890, the money saved is pretty decent where I live. I can get the cheapest 4890 for upwards of $120 less than the cheapest 285.
 
I just ordered a Sapphire HD 4890...was a good deal on NewEgg Canada. Snagged it for $240, when the cheapest you could get it a month ago was over $300, thanks to the crappy Canadian dollar.

I've been NVidia since I've owned PCs...not necessarily because I was team green, but because they were the best value cards when I was buying.

This will be my first forray into the world of ATi/AMD/Radeon.

Honestly, if people saying NVidia drivers are great, I'd hate to see ATi drivers at this point. The newer NVidia drivers are awful. Game profiles rarely work for me, I get DLL driver crashes in Windows 7, PureVideo costs money. I don't know what the ATi situation is, but I guess I'll find out in about a week.
 
VenomousDesigns said:
Reading through that Hardware Canucks 4890 Roundup again, and can't help but be persuaded by how attract the 275 FTW, or even the 285 FTW from EVGA now looks ><.

DECISIONS, decisions.. Any user input? Only thing that concerns me is that the Nvidias' are referenced cooled - if I have the money for the 285 FTW can I go wrong for fastest single card on the market?
Click to expand...

the ftw cards are 400 dollars man lmao
 
ex0du5 said:
This will be my first forray into the world of ATi/AMD/Radeon.

Honestly, if people saying NVidia drivers are great, I'd hate to see ATi drivers at this point. The newer NVidia drivers are awful. Game profiles rarely work for me, I get DLL driver crashes in Windows 7, PureVideo costs money. I don't know what the ATi situation is, but I guess I'll find out in about a week.
Click to expand...
Just make sure you totally scrub your system clean of Nvidia driver files, use Driver Cleaner or something. ATI drivers are great as of 9.4, which is what I'm using right now. I have literally zero issues in anything I play.

There's a Newegg.ca now? Wow! I am out of the loop.
 
evilsofa said:
Be careful about comparing the April 1 4890 vs 280 review to the April 9 280 vs 285 review. If you look at the Test Setup page, you'll see they used systems with different CPUs (overclocked to the same speed), RAM (one system had DDR2, one had DDR3) and drivers (185.63 vs 185.66). I even notice that the shader clocks of the two 280s are different (1292Mhz vs 1296Mhz). Maybe these differences aren't much, but they still technically invalidate directly comparing the two tests.

That being said, in the first test, the 280 was equal or a bit better than the 4890 in all but FEAR 2, while in the second test, the 285 was a bit better than the 280 in only 2 games, neither of which was FEAR 2. In the first test, the GTX 275 was either equal or a bit slower than the 4890. So it seems reasonable to me to think that the performance ranking goes GTX 275<4890=GTX 280<GTX 285, with the understanding that we are talking about a very thin slice of performance with the 4890 overlapping the nVidia cards in both directions.

As I type this, on newegg the lowest prices on these four cards are:
eVGA GTX 275 $220 after MIR, free shipping, free Cryostasis game, lifetime warranty
eVGA GTX 280 $220 after MIR, free shipping, free COD:WAW game, 2 year warranty
PNY GTX 285 $285 after MIR, free shipping - but it says "weekend savings", implying we'll see different prices on monday; other GTX 285s, including eVGA, BFG and MSI, start at $315-$320 after MIR with several choices for games and warranties.
I'd like to note that I've found eVGA and MSI rebates to be very reliable (100 percent so far on about 6 different cards) and have heard no different on the forums here.

4890 pricing: the cheapest HIS 4890 is the cheapest 4890 at $200 after $20 MIR with free STALKER Clear Sky game, but HIS MIRs are very unreliable and that particular HIS doesn't have free shipping, so you'd probably end up paying $230 for it. Most of the others range from $205 to $215 after MIR. If you want an XFX 4890, they are way up at $250.

The GTX 285 is too expensive. The GTX 275 has its points over the GTX 280 despite the slightly lower performance - it doesn't need an 8-pin PCI-E power connector, uses significantly less power, idles cooler (but runs a bit hotter under load), and has a better warranty; it's up to you to decide between the two since they have an equal price. The 4890 is up to $15 less than the GTX 275/280, but I've got to say that the makers that sell them at those prices are a lot less reliable in support than eVGA.

After all that, my personal choice would be the GTX 275.
Click to expand...

Yeps. all depends on price. I just picked up an eVGA GTX 275 for ~$205 after 15% Bing Cashback @ Tiger and that's about $40 less than an XFX 4890 from Newegg. IMO, only XFX has a worthwhile warranty/RMA platform for AMD/ATi.

Power consumption/heat ouput were secondary considirations for me, and again, the GTX 275 was the logical choice.
 
Jalidi said:
Just make sure you totally scrub your system clean of Nvidia driver files, use Driver Cleaner or something.
Click to expand...

Seems odd that people should even find this necessary anymore. I know there's been some trouble with this in the past, but with the later drivers I don't have this issues at all anymore; switching between my Nvidia 9800GX2 and my ATI 4830 is always flawless; I don't need to uninstall/reinstall/driversweep anything. I just take out the card, put in the other one, start the computer and everything works perfectly, no matter which of the two cards I use.
 
Raap said:
Seems odd that people should even find this necessary anymore. I know there's been some trouble with this in the past, but with the later drivers I don't have this issues at all anymore; switching between my Nvidia 9800GX2 and my ATI 4830 is always flawless; I don't need to uninstall/reinstall/driversweep anything. I just take out the card, put in the other one, start the computer and everything works perfectly, no matter which of the two cards I use.
Click to expand...

Doesn't hurt to be safe.
 
Raap said:
Seems odd that people should even find this necessary anymore. I know there's been some trouble with this in the past, but with the later drivers I don't have this issues at all anymore; switching between my Nvidia 9800GX2 and my ATI 4830 is always flawless; I don't need to uninstall/reinstall/driversweep anything. I just take out the card, put in the other one, start the computer and everything works perfectly, no matter which of the two cards I use.
Click to expand...
That's generally how it worked in the past as well, until you started BSOD'ing constantly for (seemingly) no reason whatsoever. It's more of a prophylactic procedure than anything, but there's nothing like a clean system :D. Anyway, good work getting the 4890 OP. Honestly, there's no reason I currently see to get a 285 unless they drop below ~$230 (or you have tons of cash to spare and want the absolute best SLI config).
 
ex0du5 said:
I just ordered a Sapphire HD 4890...was a good deal on NewEgg Canada. Snagged it for $240, when the cheapest you could get it a month ago was over $300, thanks to the crappy Canadian dollar.

I've been NVidia since I've owned PCs...not necessarily because I was team green, but because they were the best value cards when I was buying.

This will be my first forray into the world of ATi/AMD/Radeon.

Honestly, if people saying NVidia drivers are great, I'd hate to see ATi drivers at this point. The newer NVidia drivers are awful. Game profiles rarely work for me, I get DLL driver crashes in Windows 7, PureVideo costs money. I don't know what the ATi situation is, but I guess I'll find out in about a week.
Click to expand...

to be fair they both have their issues, one of the chief complaints about ATI is profiles and getting to them. Nvidia is usually right on top of a new release so a LOT of ATI owners compare this. but as anyone having to deal with Nvidia's monitor bugs can tell you nvidia is NOT better, just a different choice of evils
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top