Put a C2 with disabled ASBL right next to it and the difference will be obvious (at least after a while) when using it for productivity.
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42" OLED MASTER THREAD
- Thread starter Murzilka
- Start date
I've always had speakers. And I still wonder about that. However, with this 48" I don't think I've left any room. So hoping to still make a go of the TV's speakers, which sound better than I would have expected. FWIW...
StoleMyOwnCar
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I used my eyes. I appreciate all of the math and theory, but when it comes to purely sensory experiences like this, everyone is different. Like it's popular, for instance, to say that a 1440p display at X size is the same PPI as, say, a 1080p display at Y size. Sure, mathematically that checks out. But it doesn't make any holistic sense when you consider that said display has to basically be twice as large while having that same PPI. If I had a 1080p display this close at 42" I could probably quite easily see the pixels. At 1440p, less so. At 4k, I can't really see any of the individual pixels. The only thing I could maybe notice is text fringing, but frankly I would notice that at any distance. The text being bigger and easier on the eyes actually saves me strain when compared to having blurrier text smaller and farther away.
I think what you're not getting is that "measurably 'worse'" doesn't mean "perceptually 'worse'". A display, ideally (to some people anyway, me included), is meant to grant you some hopefully visceral experiences while gaming and consuming content, not just clean, clinical images from an ideal distance that give you the (supposedly) mathematically superior image. All of these standards, they're well intentioned, but they don't account how much better it feels to me to be rushing towards a tunnel in a vehicle at high speed with it enveloping most of my range of vision, vs just "oh okay, it's there... in the distance... cool". To me the advantage of a 4k display at this size is precisely that it can provide the experience this close without really suffering from a "screen door" effect as much due to the pixels being so small vs say a 1440p display. Now, if I was a competitive gamer, this distance would be quite squarely worse. But you wouldn't use this for competitive gaming. You would use a smaller monitor and resolution, probably at 240Hz at the bare minimum. This thing still has too much noticeable motion blur to be considered competitive even in that regard.
And originally, I was in your math camp, until I started actually trying things out myself (such as that 45" 3440x1440 monitor I tried out earlier), and I have to say I need to apologize to Dan_D for judging him earlier (at least that's who I think it was, it was months ago at this point) in another thread prematurely without trying a larger display on my desk myself to try out firsthand. It does work, and I'm starting to realize that you really just can't substitute math for experience in these regards. I need to try these things myself before saying anything. That said, doing that is kind of expensive lol.
I think you do have a point, here. This display is very inconsistent with the ASBL implementation. Most of the time it comes back up to full brightness, but a decent chunk of the time (30-40%) I notice that it seems to stay noticeably dimmer even coming back on, and sometimes that seems to extend to even when I have movies on. I have to occasionally turn it back off and on. Most of the time though, changing the desktop background gets it going again, at least.
I'm kind of on the fence as to how much this matters to me. It is ultimately a longevity feature, even though it's clearly imperfect. Hm...
No need to apologize to me. I read and respond to so many posts on this forum that it usually has to be something either stunningly brilliant or absolutely absurd for me to remember it. Things like the Yaris as a sports car, revenge fucking your ex girlfriends brother, 10k desks, or keeping a sword in the trunk of your car so you can defend yourself from drive by shootings in the mean streets of North Dallas are the kinds of things I remember. Someone disagreeing with me or even berating my opinion doesn't really even register. Not to mention, being a hardware reviewer for almost two-decades requires thick skin as a part of the job description.
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You can compromise and mount speakers over the top of the screen, with as best a triangular spread as you can get, angled down and slightly inward. It's usually recommended that tweeters should be ear height to get the all of the high frequencies so doing some downward firing/aiming would be required. if doing surround, surround sound 5.1 or 7.1 systems also need space, including for a center speaker, beneath usually. but you can squeeze a center beneath a screen if the screen isn't too large/near to where the screen needs to lay its bottom bezel on a desk.
It's another reason decoupling a (gaming tv) from a desk and setting it a bit farther away has advantages. Though in the "schematic" image examples below it looks more like a 32inch 4k at 60 deg viewing angle on a desk, it is in a similarly widespread room layout for the speakers and the screen is oriented at the same ~ 60 deg central viewing angle. Speakers are best triangulated more and not being a squashed squat triangle, just like a screen's viewing angle. Like being at a sweet spot range vs the display itself layout wise, speakers also have better and worse orientations for better or worse quality.
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https://www.genelec.com/monitor-placement
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It's another reason decoupling a (gaming tv) from a desk and setting it a bit farther away has advantages. Though in the "schematic" image examples below it looks more like a 32inch 4k at 60 deg viewing angle on a desk, it is in a similarly widespread room layout for the speakers and the screen is oriented at the same ~ 60 deg central viewing angle. Speakers are best triangulated more and not being a squashed squat triangle, just like a screen's viewing angle. Like being at a sweet spot range vs the display itself layout wise, speakers also have better and worse orientations for better or worse quality.
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https://www.genelec.com/monitor-placement
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I'm just chuckling thinking about the folks who will read this and think those things are hyperbole or the result of a vivid imagination instead of just another Tuesday in Genmay.
Armenius
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It's not blocked. People just like to complain.
Not blocked, but broken? Improwise's experience is that the firmware updates to disable the dimming on the C3 don't stick...
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Wonder if the C4 will also have this problem.
I probably should have said updated firmware settings don't stick per Improwise's experience. (As firmware updates makes it sound like new firmware installation. )
My old TV had a similar issue in that overscan was forced on. It could only be defeated in the Service Menu, but that also only lasted until you turned the TV off. As such I basically only enjoyed its highest quality picture on special occasions...
)My old TV had a similar issue in that overscan was forced on. It could only be defeated in the Service Menu, but that also only lasted until you turned the TV off. As such I basically only enjoyed its highest quality picture on special occasions...
tongshadow
Limp Gawd
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Anyone complaining about dimming "issues" on the C2 post-update has defective units.
Before the update the auto dimming was much more aggressive, but after the new update they fixed the algorythm. It now works similarly to the C3, the dimming is less noticeable and more progressive. Any change in APL, such as moving the mouse pointer, is enough to bring the brightness levels to normal.
Before the update the auto dimming was much more aggressive, but after the new update they fixed the algorythm. It now works similarly to the C3, the dimming is less noticeable and more progressive. Any change in APL, such as moving the mouse pointer, is enough to bring the brightness levels to normal.
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Or use pole style floor stands, behind the desk.
Gatecrasher3000
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I just got my c3 dudes, what HDMI cable do you suggest?
Armenius
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Someone recommended a Zeskit on Reddit and I been using it without issues.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07S196T4Z/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07S196T4Z/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
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StoleMyOwnCar
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For <=6 FT, I think most cables will do okay. Past that, I suggest this one:
https://www.amazon.com/Club3D-CAC-1371-Ultra-Speed-Male-Male/dp/B07VK7JWH5
As I said earlier I had sporadic issues with the cheaper cables others were suggesting at 10FT (which I needed at least 10FT for my setup), and this solved them all. Absolutely rock solid ever since.
I'm not sure what you get for a >10FT run that would actually work without issue. I'm sure a lot of these companies are completely bullshitting their certification. Linus did a video about it at one point.
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For more than 10 feet you really need fiber optic.
I had a certified HDMI 2.1 fiber cable from Monoprice and it frequently failed to connect. Replaced it with this one by Ruipro and it has worked fine for 4k@120Hz 10-bit. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BCFZG1W5
So yeah, it does seem like the certification doesn't mean much.
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Gatecrasher3000
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That's what I ended up getting, TY.
"For more than 10 feet you really need fiber optic."
Oh yeah? I ended up getting the 13 foot zeskit, it seems to work well, however I've noticed odd lag, like my screen will freeze for half a second when playing battlefield 2042 at 4k at 120hz. This is the only game that I have seen any issue with, I assumed it was just a battlefield bug, could this possibly be because of the cable?
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Gatecrasher3000
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I just ordered the 10 foot zeskit, I'll see if that provides better performance over the 13 foot when playing battlefield 2042.
I thought it was odd, I've never had an issue with 2042 until I replaced my monitor and cable, even after I lowered the settings from high to medium.
Thanks.
I thought it was odd, I've never had an issue with 2042 until I replaced my monitor and cable, even after I lowered the settings from high to medium.
Thanks.
StoleMyOwnCar
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I finally decided to try for a replacement from Costco due to that stuck pixel. Second one came into me with the box pierced, I guess another episode of Fork Truck Wars. Had to call them, but they took it back and immediately sent me another one. This third one thus far I haven't seen any dead or stuck pixels on, after trying to scan the screen. I think I'll be keeping it for good.
Lowering your graphics settings in a program is going to do more or less nothing. This is dependent upon the quantity of data being transmitted to the display per unit time. I was having issues with random green artifacts in the desktop, and they would only start up once in a blue moon, but they wouldn't go away until a restart of the display. Once I replaced the cable with this one, the issue more or less entirely went away. Quantity of data more or less (afaik) means frame rate, resolution, and bit depth. Lowering the settings might have actually made your problem worse, because you would have a higher frame rate.
Lowering your graphics settings in a program is going to do more or less nothing. This is dependent upon the quantity of data being transmitted to the display per unit time. I was having issues with random green artifacts in the desktop, and they would only start up once in a blue moon, but they wouldn't go away until a restart of the display. Once I replaced the cable with this one, the issue more or less entirely went away. Quantity of data more or less (afaik) means frame rate, resolution, and bit depth. Lowering the settings might have actually made your problem worse, because you would have a higher frame rate.
tongshadow
Limp Gawd
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You'll miss out on future updates. The C1 didnt get the update that improved the ASBL algorythm on the C2.
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I bought this fiber optic one recently but it's out of stock and not listed atm on amazon at the moment. High demand for these I think.
KAGO 8K Fiber Optic HDMI Cable - 33Ft Premium Ultra high Speed HDMI 2.1 Cable,8K@60Hz 4K@120/144Hz 48Gbps Dynamic HDR, eARC,VRR, Dolby Atmos, Compatible with PS5, Xbox Series X, UHD 8K Movies
I connected my hdmi 2.1 output from my legion 5 pro laptop's 3070 gpu to my 120Hz 4k C1 OLED TV in my living room and played a little elden ring in HDR at 120hz 4k. No hiccups, graphics artifacts, or anything like that. The cables aren't cheap, I payed around $40 usd for that 33 foot one, but it is performing well.
Note that they are 1 - way cables so if you ever get one and think it's a dud, try flipping it around and trying it in the other direction.
There are other brands of fiber optic cables but make sure to read reviews as not all brands perform as advertised.
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Gatecrasher3000
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So I have now the 13ft and 10ft zeskit HDMIs, and I guess (?) Im getting less frozen screen with the 10ft over the 13 footer. I just ordered the Club 3D 13ft cable, so third times a charm hopefully.
Buy yeah, 2042 is the only game I have seen this behavior on, but it's also by far the most graphically demanding game I play, so I don't know what the issue might be.
Once I replace the zeskit with the club3d cable, and if I get the same behaviour, I will just assume it's the game.
Thanks
The longest distance I need to cover is only 13ft from my C3 to my pc tower. Would I even need optical for 13 feet? I thought optical was for like things over 25 feet.I bought this fiber optic one recently but it's out of stock and not listed atm on amazon at the moment. High demand for these I think.
KAGO 8K Fiber Optic HDMI Cable - 33Ft Premium Ultra high Speed HDMI 2.1 Cable,8K@60Hz 4K@120/144Hz 48Gbps Dynamic HDR, eARC,VRR, Dolby Atmos, Compatible with PS5, Xbox Series X, UHD 8K Movies
I connected my hdmi 2.1 output from my legion 5 pro laptop's 3070 gpu to my 120Hz 4k C1 OLED TV in my living room and played a little elden ring in HDR at 120hz 4k. No hiccups, graphics artifacts, or anything like that. The cables aren't cheap, I payed around $40 usd for that 33 foot one, but it is performing well.
Note that they are 1 - way cables so if you ever get one and think it's a dud, try flipping it around and trying it in the other direction.
There are other brands of fiber optic cables but make sure to read reviews as not all brands perform as advertised.
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I think depends on the brand. Some say iffy over 6ft but 10 - 15 ft can be done with good copper cables I think.
According to cablematters.com
"You can get HDMI 2.0 cables that reach around 15ft from reputable manufacturers like Cable Matters. HDMI 2.1 cables tend to only reach around 10ft at most.
However, if you’re willing to pay for a fiber optic active cable, you can get a 4K 120Hz HDMI 2.1 cable that reaches as much as 50ft, which is more than enough for most use cases."
hdmi.org says about 4k hdmi 2.1 "The specification does not indicate a cable length. Cable length depends on many factors including cable type and construction. Based on early testing in the UHS Cable program, it is expected that passive cables of 5 meters will be achievable." 5m = 16 feet
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Could depend on the resolution + Hz you are pushing too.
Gatecrasher3000
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God damn! Seems like even the professionals don't clearly agree on length/performance standards.
I'll try this club3d cable, and if I still get issues I'll try an optical cable, and if I still have issues after that I'll just live with it.
Maybe I should just man up and move my tower on top of my desk.
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I had a remote pc case setup a long time ago, I think I started doing it when I still had a fw900 crt next to a 1920x1200 28" LCD. I continued doing the remote setup back starting some time just before 1440p monitors were becoming popular with knock-off brands, with a cinema display and one of the first 120hz 1080p gaming screens, and then later a 144hz 1440p pg278q next to the 1440p cinema display. I ran cables through a modeled basement rec-room ceiling where my pc setup was, on 25' - 30' cables to a tall counter-like table space on the back wall of a storage room. Mini-dp and DVI to the pc intially. I also ran a 50' hdmi up to a living room TV on the main floor (and used an IR repeater device, usb over ethernet cable adapter). The move to 10' cable setups was a step backward in some ways.
The 25' - 30' run was the most silent PC setup I've ever had. As quiet as you can make pc cooling, it's never really silent compared to no fans at all (e.g. pc is turned off). Especially compared to fan profiles ramping up under load. I miss that remote setup sometimes and I've considered going back to that now that I could use fiber hdmi and fiber usb-c to a hub for peripherals. There will probably be dp 2.1 cables eventually too, if/when I have a dp 2.1 gpu and display someday. I'm still considering doing it once I remodel some things. There are some neat ways to remotely boot/reboot pc's too so that's not really a problem. As far as the aquarium pc LED glass menageries, most people seeing them see them in pictures so I could just take a picture of the remote case, or put a ip camera on it to watch it like an aquarium video stream lol. Really, having that kind of light reflecting off of your display's face as shown in most people's setup pictures is compromising the picture quality of the screen anyway. Other people have done similar setups in closets, but airflow and heat can probably be a problem in a small closet compared to a storage room that gets a fairly controlled temp range with a forced air duct in it's ceiling.
My pc case is strapped to the side of my desk for now though, on little black cubes as a pillar base above the floor. For my living room and bedroom, I switched to nvidia shields hardwired on gigabit lan rather than using a remote htpc over hdmi a long time ago.
Long story short, I'd rather go in the opposite direction from sitting on top of a pc case but I can live with being tethered ~ pc dongle.
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Armenius
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The easiest thing to go by is the greater the length of a copper cable, the less bandwidth it is able to transmit cleanly, so it is typically better to be on the safe side and go for the lower end of the estimate. I go by what the HDMI Founders say and limit my Ultra High Speed cables to 10' since they are the ones who manage the specification.
Gatecrasher3000
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True, I will see how this club3d cable does when it arrives later today, and if I get the same issues I will just live with it.
Also, new question for all of you, I have the c3 42" as my main monitor and for work I use it connected to a mac laptop. For work I look at text 99% of the time. I know due tor the WRGB subpixel layout text is not going to be ideal, however text seems to look sharper on my windows system then with my mac, have any of you found the best text settings when using a mac? I've gone through the resolutions and found 3200x1800 looks best for me.
Armenius
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I'm pretty sure MacOS has DPI scaling just like Windows, so you can leave it at native resolution and scale the image up. I do 150% on my 48" C3 with Windows. If you're comfortable with 3200x1800 then scaling to 144% at UHD 4K will match that look, which is close to the 150% setting I'm using.
Gatecrasher3000
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Is this more less the same settings you are all using for your setups?
View: https://youtu.be/jK_pchCK-5I?si=tzITQUZ6GeVWfNkS
View: https://youtu.be/jK_pchCK-5I?si=tzITQUZ6GeVWfNkS
silentcircuit
Limp Gawd
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Anyone with the Sony 42" A90K OLED have tips or tricks for using it as a monitor? It seems to behave much better connected to the 7900 XTX than the RTX 2080... occasionally does this weird thing where I tell it to run 4K@120Hz and it runs 1080p for some reason. Also not thrilled with the brightness. I've got an aftermarket remote and can get in to the service menu, but haven't seen anything helpful in there at first glance.
Armenius
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For color and brightness I do it using the image calibration tools on the Xbox Series X and apply it to all inputs. For general settings I follow Rtings. I've thought about getting a calibration device to fine tune the settings, but I don't think it's that important. The white balance and gamma look fine to me without any adjustment..
When I got my C2 I just followed TFTCentral's C2 for PC setup and I've been happy with it. From there I've just tweaked things to what I prefer, which is all that really matters.
Gatecrasher3000
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Yeah I followed their settings suggestions, but their coloring is way too warm for me, everyone's eyes are different.
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Somewhat warmer is technically more accurate. People often say you have to get used to it over time, but you should use what is more pleasing to your own eye in my opinion.
I use reshade to adjust games on a per game basis anyway, especially sdr ones. HDR when done well usually doesn't need much adjusting in my experience, outside of the in game settings. There are some HDR filters for games whose HDR implementation is broken though. A certain "HDR fixing" filter can make them look a lot more like they should by setting peak brightness. I'd rather have the screen OSD settings as a foundation and then edit each game a little to taste after that point with just a few sliders in reshade, not going crazy with a ton of them or anything. At least on games I am putting a lot of hours into. Exception could be some game's anti cheat could trigger on reshade if playing online, at least potentially but not all of them do.
. . .
I used the reddit oled gaming sub's pinned setting guide as a baseline to work from on my oled tvs:
https://www.reddit.com/r/OLED_Gaming/comments/mbpiwy/lg_oled_gamingpc_monitor_recommended_settings/
Google drive of the settings:
Google Drive: LG OLED Recommended Settings
. . .
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Reshade
https://reshade.me/
Reshade is pretty easy to use if you just want to edit a few sliders. After you install the reshade app, you just pick the game if it's detected, or recurse directories using "browse" to find a game exe.
Borrowing "how to install" images from here: https://forums.flightsimulator.com/...listic-colors-and-tone-fixes/454411/51?page=3
This one is dated but still shows how to change a lot of things pretty well. Notably blackpoint, whitepoint.
https://forum.level1techs.com/t/guide-for-installing-running-reshade-and-presets/126368
There are also sets of pre-baked arrays of settings you can download that people already took the time to make as a package for particular games. In that case you wouldn't have to edit anything yourself, you'd just install the preset. Personally I'd rather just adjust a few sliders myself though since everyone's monitor settings, viewing environment, and personal tastes are different.
If you want to install a preset someone authored for a game, for the most part it is just decompressing the preset ini into the specific game's folder
======================================================
This below shows how to use reshade's HDR tools along with the lilium tone mapping shader to fix "broken" HDR games that are defaulting to hdr 10,000 or HDR 4,000 due to poor implementation/broken sliders by devs:
Before he set the max CLL for static tone mapping to match what the game is trying to push at 10,000 or 4,000 . . and then set the target peak luminance to that of his screen - the brights were crushed to white, and the black level was also lifted and muddied.
PlasmaTVforGaming Youtube channel - Reshade HDR tools
YouTube Video:
HDR tone mapping is now possible with Reshade. What to do with 10000 nits games on any TV or Monitor [Plasma TV for Gaming Channel, 6 mo. ago]
He shows how he used the HDR shaders to fix cyberpunk in the video below, and that video goes into more detail later on further tweaking some things in reshade in the HDR game beyond the Max CLL for static tone mapping and the target peak luminance.
https://reshade.me/
Reshade is pretty easy to use if you just want to edit a few sliders. After you install the reshade app, you just pick the game if it's detected, or recurse directories using "browse" to find a game exe.
Borrowing "how to install" images from here: https://forums.flightsimulator.com/...listic-colors-and-tone-fixes/454411/51?page=3
"Now select which shaders (effects) you want to install, my recommendation is to uncheck all, and then recheck all, to install all the shaders. So make sure all are checked and then click next."
You should probably install all of the shaders since you can uncheck them all later within the app and only use the few you want on each game.
"Reshade should then load automatically when you start the sim"
"The first thing I would do would be to navigate to the settings menu in reshade at the top and select a key for effects toggle."
Like he said, select a unique hotkey combo so you can enable/disable the reshade effects in order to see before/after as you tweak.
You really only need to activate a few shader package checkboxes in order to get some controls like: saturation, color strengths/tone, contrast, black detail level, white point, sharpness etc. controls.
This one is dated but still shows how to change a lot of things pretty well. Notably blackpoint, whitepoint.
https://forum.level1techs.com/t/guide-for-installing-running-reshade-and-presets/126368
There are also sets of pre-baked arrays of settings you can download that people already took the time to make as a package for particular games. In that case you wouldn't have to edit anything yourself, you'd just install the preset. Personally I'd rather just adjust a few sliders myself though since everyone's monitor settings, viewing environment, and personal tastes are different.
If you want to install a preset someone authored for a game, for the most part it is just decompressing the preset ini into the specific game's folder
======================================================
This below shows how to use reshade's HDR tools along with the lilium tone mapping shader to fix "broken" HDR games that are defaulting to hdr 10,000 or HDR 4,000 due to poor implementation/broken sliders by devs:
Before he set the max CLL for static tone mapping to match what the game is trying to push at 10,000 or 4,000 . . and then set the target peak luminance to that of his screen - the brights were crushed to white, and the black level was also lifted and muddied.
PlasmaTVforGaming Youtube channel - Reshade HDR tools
YouTube Video:
HDR tone mapping is now possible with Reshade. What to do with 10000 nits games on any TV or Monitor [Plasma TV for Gaming Channel, 6 mo. ago]
He shows how he used the HDR shaders to fix cyberpunk in the video below, and that video goes into more detail later on further tweaking some things in reshade in the HDR game beyond the Max CLL for static tone mapping and the target peak luminance.
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