$400 Gaming Upgrade

[Morlock]

Okay, sorry again for wasting anyone's time with the previous thread. First, my current build:

OS: W7 Ultimate 64-bit
Case: Raidmax Scorpio 668
PSU: PC Power and Cooling Silencer PPCS500 500W
Motherboard: Gigabyte EP45-DS3L mobo
CPU: E5200 Dual-Core 2.5GHz processor
RAM: 8GB DDR2
Video Card: Radeon HD 4800
Monitor 1: NEC E201W (19" 1280x720)
Monitor 2: Hanns-G HW191A (19" 1440x900)
Internal Storage: 6.5 TB (2, 1.5, 1.5, 1.5)
Keyboard: cheapo junk
Mouse: cheapo workhorse

****

1) What will you be doing with this PC?

I suppose the heaviest use I put my computer to is 3d stuff (Max, Daz Studio, etc.). Next would be gaming. I try to stay a good ways back from the current crop of games, so I can shop in the bargain bin for both hardware and software. I would love to run ARMA 3 when it comes out - IF it ever comes out - but I don't think I have the budget for that. Maybe in a few months. It's also my media server for my TV, and of course, I browse the web with it.

2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included?

$400 before tax and shipping, though I'd prefer to use fewer vendors if possible, to save on shipping.

3) Which country do you live in? If the U.S, please tell us the state and city if possible.

USA, SC.

4) What exact parts do you need for that budget?

Mobo, CPU & fan, 8gb RAM, video card, mouse

5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing?

See above.

6) Will you be overclocking?

I wouldn't mind either way. Depends on risk vs. reward.

7) What is the max resolution of your monitor? What size is it?

See above.

8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?

ASAP.

9) What features do you need in a motherboard?

USB 3.0 would be nice. I also need a lot of USB ports, whatever the speed. I've got like 6 external drives, plus I need 4 more ports open (1 each for my sneakernet externals, thumb drive, graphics pad, and DIALUP modem), and a couple more for expansion wouldn't hurt, but I figure I'm already pushing it asking for 10.

Oh, I also run a video splitter on my second monitor, sending the signal to my TV as well. I'd prefer not to have to buy another splitter for new type of connection.

I'm open to suggestions for other features.

10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? If yes, what OS? Is it 32bit or 64bit?

Yes, see above.

****

For a mouse, I think the ZALMAN ZM-M300 looks okay, for an under-$20-shipped optical mouse with 7 buttons and a wheel. I'm open to alternatives. But that's all I've got on my list so far.

ETA: oh, my current video card doesn't fit well in my case; it crowds the lowest HDD bracket (or whatever you call it) so I can't use any HDDs in it. I'd prefer to have a video card that doesn't do that this time around, if possible.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Dangman]

Which HD 4800 series video card do you have? They all had different lengths.

 

[tiraides]

You have some areas of concerns we need to address:

- The Raidmax Scorpio 668 is essentially garbage if it can't fit an "average-size" card like the HD 4800. You should replace it sooner rather than later.
- How old is the PSU? How hard was it pushed? If it's more than five years old, you need to start considering a possible replacement.
- Ten USB devices? And you need room for at least two more? Given your meager budget, you may need to consider a powered USB hub (or two).
- What games do you want to play right now? Are you going to play them on one of your monitors or your TV? (If push comes to shove, could you live with onboard video?)
- You have four HDDs now; do you plan on buy any more in the future?

I was thinking about the following build to resolve as many of those issues as possible:

$67 - Intel Pentium G2120
$70 - Gigabyte GA-B75M-D3H
$57 - Kingston ValueRAM 8GB DDR3 1333 DIMM
$100 - EVGA GTX 650 1GB
$43 - Corsair CX430M 430W semi-modular PSU
$44 - NZXT Source 210 Elite ATX mid-tower case
$11 - Zalman ZM-M300 optical mouse
======
$392 - Subtotal (not including shipping, taxes, or rebates)

But that build brought up other concerns:

- You'll probably want a quad-core processor for your 3D work.
- You'll probably want a better video card for ARMA 2/3... and that may require a better PSU than the CX430M.
- I still didn't resolve the USB problem. You'll need at least one 7-port USB hub, which costs upwards of $20.

I'll need more time to think things through.

 

[Morlock]

Card is a SAPPHIRE 100259L

The problem isn't so much the card, as where they put the power plugs. They go straight into the fore side, parallel with the card, so the plugs from the PSU stick out too far, and don't leave enough room for a HDD. If they'd done the smart thing and pointed them upward, toward the PSU, the card would fit fine. Close, but fine.

You have some areas of concerns we need to address:

- The Raidmax Scorpio 668 is essentially garbage if it can't fit an "average-size" card like the HD 4800. You should replace it sooner rather than later.

New case ain't in the budget. Really, now that I think about it, I don't need the lower bracket, anyway since I added all the enclosures and externals.

- How old is the PSU? How hard was it pushed? If it's more than five years old, you need to start considering a possible replacement.

I bought it in 2009. I don't think I've pushed it all that hard. I haven't gamed all that much over the intervening years, and didn't do all that much 3d work.

- Ten USB devices? And you need room for at least two more? Given your meager budget, you may need to consider a powered USB hub (or two).

Yeah, I sometimes wonder about getting hub(s), but I don't know anything about them.

- What games do you want to play right now?

Depends on what kind of rig I have.

Are you going to play them on one of your monitors or your TV?

Just the monitor(s), not the TV. Well, I guess not on the TV. It's just 720p, and I've never really thought about gaming on it. Maybe if I got a console-style controller or two.

(If push comes to shove, could you live with onboard video?)

I hadn't really considered it. Last time I really paid attention to hardware, nobody used onboard video unless they were just building a business PC.

- You have four HDDs now; do you plan on buy any more in the future?

No, not for this rig. If I add any drives, they'll be external. Eventually I want to go to two rigs. One for gaming/3d, and one for browsing/media server.

I was thinking about the following build to resolve as many of those issues as possible:

I'll take a look, thanks.

But that build brought up other concerns:

- You'll probably want a quad-core processor for your 3D work.
- You'll probably want a better video card for ARMA 2/3... and that may require a better PSU than the CX430M.

Well, like I said, I'll probably go with a second rig before too long, so I can spend more money for something juicier then. Probably something in the $800 budget range (I already have a couple cases laying around, and enough HDDs to go into it already, too).

You do have a point about 4 cores for 3d work, though. I kinda stopped when D|S got too heavy for my CPU.

- I still didn't resolve the USB problem. You'll need at least one 7-port USB hub, which costs upwards of $20.

Yeah, no biggie adding $20 on there for a hub, sounds like the thing to do.

I'll need more time to think things through.

Much appreciated.

ETA: nice 'zon-fu on the mouse, btw. I checked Amazon, and the one I found was cheaper, but more once shipping was factored in. On the other hand, reviews say it's not programmable, which means I think I'll keep shopping for a mouse.

 

[Dangman]

No, not for this rig. If I add any drives, they'll be external. Eventually I want to go to two rigs. One for gaming/3d, and one for browsing/media server.

.....
Well, like I said, I'll probably go with a second rig before too long, so I can spend more money for something juicier then. Probably something in the $800 budget range (I already have a couple cases laying around, and enough HDDs to go into it already, too).

How long would it take you to save that additional $400? I ask because your current system now is good enough for a browsing/media server.

 

[Morlock]

How long would it take you to save that additional $400? I ask because your current system now is good enough for a browsing/media server.

Yeah, I feel bad now because now I'm thinking about putting things off until I can buy a second rig. I keep shifting the rug under you guys' feet. 8o

And you're exactly right, if I'm going to get a second rig for the heavier stuff, I don't need to upgrade this one. I'll have the money in about a month, when send out the bills to my clients for the jobs I'm doing currently. At that point I'll have more room to maneuver, and could throw a grand at a new rig. More if I really wanted to, but I'm a cheapskate.

They'll be in the same room, so I can run everything off a KVM switch. I'll probably replace my junky old keyboard and get a nice gaming mouse, too. Maybe even throw in a bigger monitor.

 

[Dangman]

Yeah, I feel bad now because now I'm thinking about putting things off until I can buy a second rig. I keep shifting the rug under you guys' feet. 8o

It happens. Plus I'm the one that broach the idea in the first place for you to wait.

And you're exactly right, if I'm going to get a second rig for the heavier stuff, I don't need to upgrade this one. I'll have the money in about a month, when send out the bills to my clients for the jobs I'm doing currently. At that point I'll have more room to maneuver, and could throw a grand at a new rig. More if I really wanted to, but I'm a cheapskate.

They'll be in the same room, so I can run everything off a KVM switch. I'll probably replace my junky old keyboard and get a nice gaming mouse, too. Maybe even throw in a bigger monitor.

Yes, then please come back whenever you have the money and ask for advice then.

 

[defaultluser]

Do you live near a Microcenter? If not you won't be able to afford "true" upgrades for both your CPU and video card...not at least without dropping your memory to 4GB.

 

[defaultluser]

$100 - EVGA GTX 650 1GB

This makes for a poor upgrade. I've done the math comparing multiple Tech Power Up performance summaries, and this card is barely 20% faster. He would need to spend a minimum of $130 on a Ti version, which is significantly faster.

Boggles my mind that people spend $250+ on a video card and expect to be able to upgrade it 3 years later for just pennies.

He also wants to *eventually* play games like Arma III, which will NOT play well on a Pentium dual-core.

He really needs to save up another hundred dollars to do this upgrade *RIGHT* with an i5 and a GTX 650 Ti - 30$ more buys you a lot more performance Anything less is just wasting money!

Notice in the linked review above how the 7750 trades blows with the GTX 650? Then remember it closely matches the 5770, which matches the 4870! Aside form the improved feature set, it would be a sidegrade Pay the 30$ extra for a REAL upgrade!

 

[Dangman]

Do you live near a Microcenter? If not you won't be able to afford "true" upgrades for both your CPU and video card...not at least without dropping your memory to 4GB.

He lives in the state of South Carolina. Not a single MC in that area.

 

[tiraides]

No, not for this rig. If I add any drives, they'll be external. Eventually I want to go to two rigs. One for gaming/3d, and one for browsing/media server.

Well, like I said, I'll probably go with a second rig before too long, so I can spend more money for something juicier then. Probably something in the $800 budget range (I already have a couple cases laying around, and enough HDDs to go into it already, too).

I think it's better to focus on the second rig. I don't feel comfortable only upgrading the parts you said you need.

This makes for a poor upgrade. I've done the math comparing multiple Tech Power Up performance summaries, and this card is barely 20% faster. He would need to spend a minimum of $130 on a Ti version, which is significantly faster.

You're absolutely correct. That's why I said:

I'll need more time to think things through.