40 TB RAID Server: What components to buy?

[kwanbis]

Hello guys. I’m trying to find the most cost effective solution to a problem I have. Let me explain it. Today I have a HTPC capable of 3D and 1080p that is being use with XBMC. At this point I’m not interested on any type of gaming, maybe a little bit of nostalgia emulation.

In case anyone is interested it is comprised of:

1 Intel Core i3-2100 with stock fan http://amzn.com/B004JEVGMO
1 Ultra Durable 4 Classic GA-B75N Desktop Motherboard http://amzn.com/B00B9WIM0I
1 ASUS EAH6570 Radeon HD 6570 Video Card http://amzn.com/B004X8EOB6
1 SY1225SL12L Slip Stream 120mm Case Fan
1 Rosewill Case and 1x 80mm Fan http://amzn.com/B004Q7FUG2

The HTPC connects through USB 3.0 to two Mediasonic H8R2-SU3S2 http://amzn.com/B005GYDMYQ RAID towers. On each tower I have 2 JBOD configurations: 4 x 3TB (12TB) and 4x 2TB (8TB) for a total of 20TB per tower. One tower is a backups of the other, kind of a manual RAID 1.

Now I’m about to fill both towers, and I want to create a new 40 TB tower (10 x 4 TB) that I would backup on the old two towers.

I’m evaluating two options: OPTION 1: create a low cost/low power server that can host the 10 hard drives and use some sort of software raid, and OPTION 2: create a “server/htpc” combo that would serve both purposes.

But since I would like to keep two separate threads, lets focus here on SERVER OPTION.

The option here is to build a low cost, low power, low noise and high availability server. I know that the cheapest the server, the lowest quality the components, so what I really mean is that for 300 dollars, or less if possible, the lowest power consumption, the lowest noise, and the best possible quality.

I would like to use software raid and windows 7 (licenses cost not included on the cost), but I’m open to suggestions on other forms of raid, hardware, unraid, flexraid, etc, and even Linux.

Just to be clear, I rather use Windows since I’m more familiar with it, but if really that much better I can use Linux.

This is the best I could do. Please notice that while I have made my best effort to make sure that all components are compatible, I have not been in the components business for quite a while, so I might have missed something:

COUGAR Evolution Black SECC $90 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811553002
Thermaltake SMART Series SP-550PCBUS 550W $50 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153172
Intel Celeron G1840 Haswell 2.8GHz LGA 1150 $50 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117301
GIGABYTE GA-B85M-D2V LGA 1150 $70 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128673
Kingston 4GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 $40 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820239312
Total is 300 + TAX.

Can I do it better, cheaper, more reliable, less noise, or any of those?

THANKS A LOT.

PS: If interested, the other thread is here: http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?p=1040870686#post1040870686

 

[kwanbis]

I would go for sperate low powered server. Look at the asrock quad core atom boards with 12 sata ports.

That would be great, but I tried to search for 12 ports sata board on newegg and I can not find anything. Can you tell me some? It does not needs to be on newegg. THANKS!

EDIT: if you are talking about the C2750D4I, that thing alone costs 400 dollars. My budget is 300 with CPU, PSU, CASE.

 

[teh_chem]

Would the computer with all these drives need to be used for anything else? If not, I'd with a nas or server os. and if power consumption is a key thing, I'd suggest a NAS box, though I don't know of many with 10 drive capacity for $300 (more like 10 times that price!)

I do think that you might not want to go software raid, and you should get as much ram as you can (8gb+) if you plan to run raid, especially if it's handling lots of traffic, backups, and data verification.

 

[Dangman]

Just to be clear, I rather use Windows since I’m more familiar with it, but if really that much better I can use Linux.

For 40TB worth of storage, ZFS on Linux is going to be your best bet. These two articles explains why:
http://arstechnica.com/information-...-and-atomic-cows-inside-next-gen-filesystems/
http://arstechnica.com/information-...h-using-the-zfs-next-gen-filesystem-on-linux/

This is the best I could do. Please notice that while I have made my best effort to make sure that all components are compatible, I have not been in the components business for quite a while, so I might have missed something:

COUGAR Evolution Black SECC $90 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811553002
Thermaltake SMART Series SP-550PCBUS 550W $50 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153172
Intel Celeron G1840 Haswell 2.8GHz LGA 1150 $50 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117301
GIGABYTE GA-B85M-D2V LGA 1150 $70 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128673
Kingston 4GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 $40 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820239312
Total is 300 + TAX.

Can I do it better, cheaper, more reliable, less noise, or any of those?

You can do it a whole lot better but it won't be cheaper. In fact, your current choices right now are pretty bad from a quality standpoint and price to performance standpoint. Especially that piece of shit PSU. That build's sole redeeming feature is that it's cheap. Think about it: You want to trust 40TB worth of storage to PC parts of dubious quality and performance?

So here's what I recommend at the lowest possible. I'm assuming that you're going to be willing to drop down to 8 x 4TB of data considering that your budget simply doesn't allow for a cost-effective 40TB setup:
$63 - AMD A6-6400K APU
$65 - Gigabyte GA-F2A88XM-D3H FM2+ / FM2 AMD A88X mATX Motherboard
$70 - Crucial Ballistix BLS8G3D1609ES2LX0 8GB DDR3 1600 RAM
$50 - NZXT Source 210 Elite Black ATX Case
$70 - SeaSonic S12G S12G-550 550W PSU
----
Total: $318 shipped

The above mobo has 8 SATA ports, two more SATA ports than motherboard you chose.

The case also supports 8 SATA hard drives as well. Combined with this Coolermaster module, you're looking at 12 hard drive capacity for the case in the future:
$24 - Cooler Master STB-3T4-E3-GPc w/ 120mm Fan

There's now a significantly better quality PSU and far more efficient PSU. What this means now is that your data is a lot safer and your power bill is a tad lower. Not bad for a mere $20 increase.

You now have twice as much RAM which means that ZFS on Linux will performance quite a bit better than it would with 4GB of RAM. You can see what I meant earlier by "bad price to performance" in regards to the RAM: That 8GB of RAM is $70 whereas the 4GB set you linked is $40.

 

[kwanbis]

Would the computer with all these drives need to be used for anything else? If not, I'd with a nas or server os. and if power consumption is a key thing, I'd suggest a NAS box, though I don't know of many with 10 drive capacity for $300 (more like 10 times that price!)

I do think that you might not want to go software raid, and you should get as much ram as you can (8gb+) if you plan to run raid, especially if it's handling lots of traffic, backups, and data verification.

Thanks for your answer. This server would only be using for storing my bluray collection. One computer at most 3 at a time accessing it, but more like 1. Why would it need 8 GB for just this? Seems to me very much overkill, more so if you are suggesting something like linux for it.

For 40TB worth of storage, ZFS on Linux is going to be your best bet. These two articles explains why:
http://arstechnica.com/information-...-and-atomic-cows-inside-next-gen-filesystems/
http://arstechnica.com/information-...h-using-the-zfs-next-gen-filesystem-on-linux/

Thanks for the links, I'm gonna read them tomorrow, but Linux is an option for sure.

So here's what I recommend at the lowest possible. I'm assuming that you're going to be willing to drop down to 8 x 4TB of data considering that your budget simply doesn't allow for a cost-effective 40TB setup:
$63 - AMD A6-6400K APU
$65 - Gigabyte GA-F2A88XM-D3H FM2+ / FM2 AMD A88X mATX Motherboard
$70 - Crucial Ballistix BLS8G3D1609ES2LX0 8GB DDR3 1600 RAM
$50 - NZXT Source 210 Elite Black ATX Case
$70 - SeaSonic S12G S12G-550 550W PSU
----
Total: $318 shipped

The above mobo has 8 SATA ports, two more SATA ports than motherboard you chose. The case also supports 8 SATA hard drives as well. Combined with this Coolermaster module, you're looking at 12 hard drive capacity for the case in the future:
$24 - Cooler Master STB-3T4-E3-GPc w/ 120mm Fan

I like your changes. The only thing I don't like is the CASE. Why spend 50 and then have to add a $24, when I can get the one I mentioned for 110. Granted, it is 35 more dollars, but I believe is the way to go. Unless I decide to have 8x4TB hard drives instead.

You now have twice as much RAM which means that ZFS on Linux will performance quite a bit better than it would with 4GB of RAM. You can see what I meant earlier by "bad price to performance" in regards to the RAM: That 8GB of RAM is $70 whereas the 4GB set you linked is $40.

The other thing, and I'm gonna to repeat myself, why 8GB for such a simple file server? It seems overkill, more so if I'm installing linux. If it was Windows, I might think otherwise, but Linux usually runs on very low memory, not even a megabyte. Obviously that is the lowest of the lowest, but my point is 8GB, really? Isn't 4GB enough?

Thanks both for replying.

 

[teh_chem]

The more ramisn't needed to allow the os to function normally, it's to allow the function of the disk and data integrity verification to function better, which is very ram intensive. With this much data, I think people assumed you would be implementing something like zfs (which you should with that much data being backed up from multiple sources).

 

[Dangman]

The Cougar case you linked only supports 4 hard drives out of the box and costs $90 shipped. The solution I recommended costs a total of $75 shipped and offers three times as much hard drives. I don't see any good reason to get that Cougar case for a file server. Especially for someone trying to build a file server as cheap as possible.

As for the 8GB of RAM, that's for the ZFS that we are recommending to you since it requires a lot of RAM. For 40 TB worth of storage, simple file server setups with 4GB of RAM are not going to work out well.

 

[kwanbis]

The more ram isn't needed to allow the os to function normally, it's to allow the function of the disk and data integrity verification to function better, which is very ram intensive. With this much data, I think people assumed you would be implementing something like zfs (which you should with that much data being backed up from multiple sources).

and

As for the 8GB of RAM, that's for the ZFS that we are recommending to you since it requires a lot of RAM. For 40 TB worth of storage, simple file server setups with 4GB of RAM are not going to work out well.

Originally I planned to use FlexRaid, and it needs 2GB per million files. I don't have that much by a long shot, so I thought 4 GB would be enough. If it is needed 8 GB, so be it. But it is the one thing that really surprised me.

The Cougar case you linked only supports 4 hard drives out of the box and costs $90 shipped. The solution I recommended costs a total of $75 shipped and offers three times as much hard drives. I don't see any good reason to get that Cougar case for a file server. Especially for someone trying to build a file server as cheap as possible.

The cougar has 10 bays, most of them are 5.25: ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41MG0sJsXzL.jpg

I can buy 5.25 to 3.5 adapters. Or that is my idea.

 

[kwanbis]

The Cougar case you linked only supports 4 hard drives out of the box and costs $90 shipped. The solution I recommended costs a total of $75 shipped and offers three times as much hard drives. I don't see any good reason to get that Cougar case for a file server. Especially for someone trying to build a file server as cheap as possible.

Now I see your point. Your solution is much better. Thanks for that!

Now, the only thing I might buy, is this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817996019

It is much better rated than the cooler master, but I believe it should fit ok?

 

[Deleted member 88227]

Take the "Egg reviews" with a grain of salt. They're not official nor standardized. For example the XIGMATEK unit only has 68 total reviews and of those 68 only 43 are 5 eggs which is only 63% while the Coolermaster has 236 total reviews and of those 263 only 153 are 5 eggs which is 65%. a mere 2% higher than the XIGMATEK.

With that being said, I do not think the XIGMATEK is worth the extra $1.

 

[schizrade]

Forget a server, spend the money on a decent NAS box. QNAP TS1079 or a 10 bay Synology.

 

[kwanbis]

Take the "Egg reviews" with a grain of salt. They're not official nor standardized. For example the XIGMATEK unit only has 68 total reviews and of those 68 only 43 are 5 eggs which is only 63% while the Coolermaster has 236 total reviews and of those 263 only 153 are 5 eggs which is 65%. a mere 2% higher than the XIGMATEK.

With that being said, I do not think the XIGMATEK is worth the extra $1.

Thanks. I would go with you suggestion then.

Forget a server, spend the money on a decent NAS box. QNAP TS1079 or a 10 bay Synology.

You do know that a synology is about 3000?

 

[schizrade]

You do know that a synology is about 3000?

Yes. I also know that the likelihood of it shitting the bed is FAR less than a software raid setup sitting on a budget server. I built a 6TB budget storage server with an areca raid card a few years back, and immediately had to run out and pop for a much faster CPU than the one I initially put in there. It literally chocked on the data coming in and out of the array.

A proper NAS is expensive, but so is a proper server.

 

[kwanbis]

Yes. I also know that the likelihood of it shitting the bed is FAR less than a software raid setup sitting on a budget server. I built a 6TB budget storage server with an areca raid card a few years back, and immediately had to run out and pop for a much faster CPU than the one I initially put in there. It literally chocked on the data coming in and out of the array.

A proper NAS is expensive, but so is a proper server.

If I had 1000 dollars to spend, I would do a better server than a synology. 3000 is way out of my budget. But thanks anyway.

 

[MrCrispy]

I would once again say that any kind of Raid, software or hardware, is a bad idea. The important thing to remember is that your files on disk must remain accessible even if other disks in the array fail - Raid does not do this.

Which is why I suggest unRaid, FlexRaid etc. You can expand your array anytime, only update parity info when data changes, be safe from disk failures and its much cheaper and easier to use.

 

[MrCrispy]

Also if you are not a Linux expert, I do not recommend ZFS. It's actually quite a complex beast to configure and you'd need to run Linux which by itself is harder to configure and use for a new user. Linuz/ZFS also would need careful choices in hardware components, with Windows you can pretty much pick anything you want.

 

[kwanbis]

I would once again say that any kind of Raid, software or hardware, is a bad idea. The important thing to remember is that your files on disk must remain accessible even if other disks in the array fail - Raid does not do this.

Which is why I suggest unRaid, FlexRaid etc. You can expand your array anytime, only update parity info when data changes, be safe from disk failures and its much cheaper and easier to use.

Also if you are not a Linux expert, I do not recommend ZFS. It's actually quite a complex beast to configure and you'd need to run Linux which by itself is harder to configure and use for a new user. Linuz/ZFS also would need careful choices in hardware components, with Windows you can pretty much pick anything you want.

I have to agree with you. The important thing is that if one of the hd die, at leas have access to the rest.

My original plan was to FlexRaid, but since everybody was talking about ZFS, i thought, ok, that is the way to go. But I would rather use FlexRaid or unRAID, whatever fits my needs better.

 

[Dangman]

I have to agree with you. The important thing is that if one of the hd die, at leas have access to the rest.

My original plan was to FlexRaid, but since everybody was talking about ZFS, i thought, ok, that is the way to go. But I would rather use FlexRaid or unRAID, whatever fits my needs better.

Just read the articles I linked. If that doesn't change your mind, then go ahead with FlexRAID. I wouldn't go with unRAID at all due to its extremely low performance in comparison to other storage solutions out there.

Though, now that I've moved this thread over to Data Storage subsytems, let's see what some of the storage gurus here have to say.

 

[kwanbis]

There's now a significantly better quality PSU and far more efficient PSU. What this means now is that your data is a lot safer and your power bill is a tad lower.

I have one question about the SeaSonic S12G http://www.seasonicusa.com/S12G.htm

How many molex plugs does it has? It seems it has 3, is that correct? If that is the case, I would use 2 of this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812119238 to have 12 sata power connectors, is that correct?

 

[Dangman]

I have one question about the SeaSonic S12G http://www.seasonicusa.com/S12G.htm

How many molex plugs does it has? It seems it has 3, is that correct? If that is the case, I would use 2 of this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812119238 to have 12 sata power connectors, is that correct?

Correct on both counts.

 

[kwanbis]

For reasons I don’t want to discuss, I decided in favor of a big HTPC with 40TB of hard drive space.

These are all the parts that with the help of forum members I have selected, thanks to all of them, for a total of $452.

Now, I have checked myself and it appears that all the options should work together, but I would love if somebody with more up to date knowledge of the parts market can take a look and confirm all is working.

Case NZXT Technologies Source 210 Computer Case http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811146102
Addon Cooler Master 4-in-3 Device Module Cage http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817993002
PSU SeaSonic S12G S12G-550 550W http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151136
RAM Kingston 8GB 240-Pin SDRAM DDR3 1600 KVR16N11H/8 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820239416
MB ASRock Z97 Extreme6 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157500
CPU Intel Pentium Processor G3420 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116949
Adapters Rosewill Molex 4pin Male to Two 15pin SATA Power Cable http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812119238

If I did all correctly, this monster HTPC should be able to run with 1 SSD and 10 4TB hard drives, and run Windows 7 + XBMC + FlexRaid.

If there is any component that I should change, please let me know. If there is a better component for the same money +/- 5%, let me know.

EDIT: I'm checking out if the G3420 is capable of 1080p and 3D. If not, I would need to either use my Asus Radeon HD 6570 http://amzn.com/B004X8EOB6 which I believe should work perfectly on this motherboard, and worst case, install a i3.

THANKS TO ALL FOR HELPING ME!

 

[Dangman]

For reasons I don’t want to discuss, I decided in favor of a big HTPC with 40TB of hard drive space.

Considering that we're spending our valuable time explaining and helping you out, you might as well reciprocate and tell us your reasons. Seems kinda rude not to do that.

Case NZXT Technologies Source 210 Computer Case http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811146102

Not a good choice for the money. The NZXT Source 210 Elite I recommended earlier is well worth the extra $5 for it from Amazon.com since it comes with a front-panel USB 3.0 port, a top mounted 140mm exhaust fan, and tooless hard drive and 5.25" mounts. Unless that NZXT Souce 210 was $20 to $25 shipped, I'd spend the extra $5 more for the NZXT Source 210 Elite.

MB ASRock Z97 Extreme6 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157500
CPU Intel Pentium Processor G3420 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116949

Not a fan of this setup due to its piss-poor price to performance ratio. Compare it to the AMD setup I mentioned earlier: For $105 more than the motherboard I recommended earlier, you're only getting two extra SATA ports. You have not mentioned any sort of need or requirement that only exists on Intel which leads to my conclusion that an Intel setup is not for you from a price to performance standpoint.

So why Intel? Just a FYI, see my sig rig to see that I'm not against Intel in general.

 

[kwanbis]

Considering that we're spending our valuable time explaining and helping you out, you might as well reciprocate and tell us your reasons. Seems kinda rude not to do that.

It has to do with costs, both solutions are about the same, the difference is that I can sell my HTPC and recover money. Also, about the noise I decided to install this pc on another room, and use a long (10 meter) hdmi cable so that the noise, if any, is no noticeable. Since it has 2 hdmi, I can connect it both to my projector and to the HDTV on the room, and use it in both. And some other cosmetic reasons my wife gave me.

Not a good choice for the money. The NZXT Source 210 Elite I recommended earlier is well worth the extra $5 for it from Amazon.com since it comes with a front-panel USB 3.0 port, a top mounted 140mm exhaust fan, and tooless hard drive and 5.25" mounts. Unless that NZXT Souce 210 was $20 to $25 shipped, I'd spend the extra $5 more for the NZXT Source 210 Elite.

I'm confused, I thought this is the exact one you recommended. If I follow the amazon link you gave me, it goes to 4 different options. Can you explain what should I have selected? I'm trying to buy from newegg because amazon now charges tax in florida.

Not a fan of this setup due to its piss-poor price to performance ratio. Compare it to the AMD setup I mentioned earlier: For $105 more than the motherboard I recommended earlier, you're only getting two extra SATA ports. You have not mentioned any sort of need or requirement that only exists on Intel which leads to my conclusion that an Intel setup is not for you from a price to performance standpoint.

The problem is that there is no AMD setup that has 10 SATA ports, and it seems that in general external SATA cards are either, too expensive, or too unreliable. I like AMD more, but I'm not sure if I can get: mother + cpu (including video) + 11 sata ports total for no more than 230, which is the cost of the intel setup. If I can, let me know how please, because I missed something.

So why Intel? Just a FYI, see my sig rig to see that I'm not against Intel in general.

Like I said, I don't need intel, I rather install AMD. But I don't know how to get to the price I want. Can you help me there?

By the way, the G3420, if used, would be replacing an i3 2100, so I believe both have about the same performance, and I'm happy with the i3 2100 performance right now, and since I only use it for movies/series, with my Radeon is more than enough.

That said, I'm more than open if you can help me get a better AMD for the same money or less that has the same capabilities, mainly 10 sata ports.

 

[Dangman]

I'm confused, I thought this is the exact one you recommended. If I follow the amazon link you gave me, it goes to 4 different options. Can you explain what should I have selected? I'm trying to buy from newegg because amazon now charges tax in florida.

That is not the exact one I recommended. Again, you want to get the NZXT Source 210 Elite. Key word is "ELITE". The link I gave you goes straight to the exact Source 210 Elite case I was recommending. Although it seems that in the past 24 hours, the price for the NZXT Source 210 Elite on Amazon has gone up $12. You can still find it on Newegg for $56 shipped:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E1681114607

Again, NZXT Source 210 ELITE.

The problem is that there is no AMD setup that has 10 SATA ports, and it seems that in general external SATA cards are either, too expensive, or too unreliable. I like AMD more, but I'm not sure if I can get: mother + cpu (including video) + 11 sata ports total for no more than 230, which is the cost of the intel setup. If I can, let me know how please, because I missed something.

Well first and foremost: Are you really comfortable spending an extra $105 just for two SATA ports? Do you absolutely hands down without a doubt need two extra SATA Ports that badly?

Second, in terms of bang for the buck value, you're better off going to ebay, buy the IBM M1015 or LSI 9240-8i for around $100 to $110 shipped, buy two of these forward breakout cables for a total of $30, and flashing the firmware to IT mode. So now for roughly $130 to $140 more, you get an additional 8 SATA ports. Yes that costs $25 to $35 more than your Intel setup but now you're getting an extra 6 SATA ports.

See why I think the Intel route is a horrible choice from a price perspective?

 

[kwanbis]

That is not the exact one I recommended. Again, you want to get the NZXT Source 210 Elite. Key word is "ELITE". The link I gave you goes straight to the exact Source 210 Elite case I was recommending. Although it seems that in the past 24 hours, the price for the NZXT Source 210 Elite on Amazon has gone up $12. You can still find it on Newegg for $56 shipped:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E1681114607

Again, NZXT Source 210 ELITE.

Your link gives an error.

This link http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811146078 (notice the additional 8 at the end), brings me to the "NZXT Source 210 Elite Black Steel with painted interior ATX Mid Tower Computer Case w/ Black Front Trim". But that is a "mid tower", I'm not sure that is really what you mean.

There is a second link http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811146102 that brings me to the "NZXT Source 210 S210-001 Black SECC Steel, ABS Plastic ATX Mid Tower Computer Case". It seems to be the same case as the previous, but again Mid Tower.

Well first and foremost: Are you really comfortable spending an extra $105 just for two SATA ports? Do you absolutely hands down without a doubt need two extra SATA Ports that badly?

Second, in terms of bang for the buck value, you're better off going to ebay, buy the IBM M1015 or LSI 9240-8i for around $100 to $110 shipped, buy two of these forward breakout cables for a total of $30, and flashing the firmware to IT mode. So now for roughly $130 to $140 more, you get an additional 8 SATA ports. Yes that costs $25 to $35 more than your Intel setup but now you're getting an extra 6 SATA ports.

See why I think the Intel route is a horrible choice from a price perspective?

I think I understand what you mean. I replaced the intel mobo and cpu with the GIGABYTE GA-F2A88XM-D3H and the AMD A6-6400K. I also added the IBM M1015 and one 3ware CBL-SFF8087OCF-10M (I don't need two 3wares, as I understand they provides 3 more SATA ports, and at most I would need 3 more because the gigabyte has already 8).

The total is 462 vs 452 of the G3420 setup. Is that what you are saying? Now, I'm not 100% sure of the advantages of the AMD platform (again, I like AMD, so it is not an intel rulez vs amd rocks). Let me explain.

I have quickly looked around and it appears that in general, unless overclocked, the A6 is SLOWER than the G3420. For example here: http://cpu boss.com/cpus/Intel-Pentium-G3420-vs-AMD-A6-6400K (remove space).

So, if the A6 is slower than the g3420, and I might be totally wrong, what are the advantages of using the AMD platform?

The only advantage I see is having 16 sata ports (even though I would never use more than 12), and that it has better video performance, but since I can use my Radeon HD 6570, ti seems to me that the only advantage is the 6 additional sata ports.

The advantage I see with the intel setup is that in the future, i can drop an i3, i5 or even i7. I'm not so sure I can achieve the same level of performance of an i5 or i7 so easily with AMD, but again, I might be totally wrong since I haven't properly followed the CPUs wars since the Athlon era.

Then again, if I'm asking is because your proposal seems interesting enough that would create doubts in me, but I'm not totally convinced, this is why I'm asking you again.

One last question The IBM M1015 are coming from china? is that correct?

Thanks once more for all your help.

 

[kwanbis]

See why I think the Intel route is a horrible choice from a price perspective?

I assume you are working or occupied with more interesting or pressing things, but, just in case you haven't seen my previous post... I still have some doubts!

Thanks again for all your help!

 

[OldHoster]

For 40TB worth of storage, ZFS on Linux is going to be your best bet. These two articles explains why:
http://arstechnica.com/information-...-and-atomic-cows-inside-next-gen-filesystems/
http://arstechnica.com/information-...h-using-the-zfs-next-gen-filesystem-on-linux/

I didn't read the rest of this thread, but ZFS is the way to go, but do NOT run ZFS on Linux run it on either FreeBSD/Solaris/OpenIndiana. You can also look at Nas4Free and run everything in a jail, it works quite well on large systems such as this.

 

[kwanbis]

I didn't read the rest of this thread, but ZFS is the way to go, but do NOT run ZFS on Linux run it on either FreeBSD/Solaris/OpenIndiana. You can also look at Nas4Free and run everything in a jail, it works quite well on large systems such as this.

thanks for your recommendation.

 

[guavaball]

man thats a lot of porn

 

[kwanbis]

man thats a lot of porn

haha, no, I only have 1 porn bluray!

 

[Dangman]

I assume you are working or occupied with more interesting or pressing things, but, just in case you haven't seen my previous post... I still have some doubts!

Thanks again for all your help!

I work long hours.

Your link gives an error.

This link http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811146078 (notice the additional 8 at the end), brings me to the "NZXT Source 210 Elite Black Steel with painted interior ATX Mid Tower Computer Case w/ Black Front Trim". But that is a "mid tower", I'm not sure that is really what you mean.

There is a second link http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811146102 that brings me to the "NZXT Source 210 S210-001 Black SECC Steel, ABS Plastic ATX Mid Tower Computer Case". It seems to be the same case as the previous, but again Mid Tower.

Sorry for the bad link. The first link you provided is the very case I was recommending. Again, I said, NZXT Source 210 ELITE. Since I said "get the NZXT Source 210 Elite" and that link shows a NZXT Source 210 Elite, that should have told you that's the case I was recommending. Not sure why you were focusing on the mid-tower part when it has no bearing on my recommendation or what I said.

The total is 462 vs 452 of the G3420 setup. Is that what you are saying? Now, I'm not 100% sure of the advantages of the AMD platform (again, I like AMD, so it is not an intel rulez vs amd rocks). Let me explain.

I have quickly looked around and it appears that in general, unless overclocked, the A6 is SLOWER than the G3420. For example here: http://cpu boss.com/cpus/Intel-Pentium-G3420-vs-AMD-A6-6400K (remove space).

So, if the A6 is slower than the g3420, and I might be totally wrong, what are the advantages of using the AMD platform?

The only advantage I see is having 16 sata ports (even though I would never use more than 12), and that it has better video performance, but since I can use my Radeon HD 6570, ti seems to me that the only advantage is the 6 additional sata ports.

The advantage I see with the intel setup is that in the future, i can drop an i3, i5 or even i7. I'm not so sure I can achieve the same level of performance of an i5 or i7 so easily with AMD, but again, I might be totally wrong since I haven't properly followed the CPUs wars since the Athlon era.

Then again, if I'm asking is because your proposal seems interesting enough that would create doubts in me, but I'm not totally convinced, this is why I'm asking you again.?

You are indeed correct that the AMD route means a slower CPU in general. However, the AMD route also means that you can get far more SATA ports and the ability to access 8 of your hard drives in any PC with a free PCI-E x16 slot. Think about it: Say the server dies but you want to access your data. You can move that IBM/LSI controller over to another PC or motherboard that has an open PCI-E x16 slot, hook up your hard drives to the mobo and PSU and now you can access your data across 8 hard drives. TO do the same with the Intel route, you'd still have to

With that said, let's say you don't want to get that IBM controller for whatever reason that are hopefully valid. That still doesn't eliminate the fact that Intel setup would be $105 more over the AMD setup for just two extra SATA ports and a CPU performance increase. There's no doubt that Intel is faster. But do you honestly think that the CPU performance increase and the two extra SATA ports are worth $105 more?

But if you seriously and absolutely need that extra two SATA ports, you can just spend $20 and get this controller which seems to be one of the more reliable cheap controllers:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816124045

In case you're wondering why I didn't just recommend four of the above Syba cards earlier, the IBM route is far far far more reliable and lets you have even more expansion room. So now the AMD and Intel price difference would be $85 if you get the above Syba card for the AMD setup I recommended earlier. For HTPC and file serving duties, Intel is not $85 faster.

Now you did mention CPU upgrade capability. The chances of you needing to upgrade the CPU is rather low considering that you seem rather set on doing the simple route in terms of file storage and HTPC duties.

One last question The IBM M1015 are coming from china? is that correct?

They come from where ever the seller is located. Some sellers are in China, some are in the U.S, etc.

I didn't read the rest of this thread, but ZFS is the way to go, but do NOT run ZFS on Linux run it on either FreeBSD/Solaris/OpenIndiana. You can also look at Nas4Free and run everything in a jail, it works quite well on large systems such as this.

Why? It seems like ZoL is working relatively fine judging from these posts:
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1819266

 

[kwanbis]

I work long hours.

I thought your only job was to be waiting for my doubts!

Sorry for the bad link. The first link you provided is the very case I was recommending. Again, I said, NZXT Source 210 ELITE. Since I said "get the NZXT Source 210 Elite" and that link shows a NZXT Source 210 Elite, that should have told you that's the case I was recommending. Not sure why you were focusing on the mid-tower part when it has no bearing on my recommendation or what I said.

I got confused because I thought that at this level of drives (11), a mid tower was too small to be taken seriously, but since you confirmed it, i trusted you and ordered it.

In case you're wondering why I didn't just recommend four of the above Syba cards earlier, the IBM route is far far far more reliable and lets you have even more expansion room. So now the AMD and Intel price difference would be $85 if you get the above Syba card for the AMD setup I recommended earlier. For HTPC and file serving duties, Intel is not $85 faster.

Actually this is the key point why I decided to follow your recommendation and go with the AMD solution: reliability. This is 80% file server, 20% htpc. But the most important thing is that the files are well taken care of. The other point is, if the mother goes bad, I need to replace a part worth 170 dollars. If the amd mother goes bad it is only 65 dollars, and if the IBM controller goes bad, it is only 100 dollars.

Now you did mention CPU upgrade capability. The chances of you needing to upgrade the CPU is rather low considering that you seem rather set on doing the simple route in terms of file storage and HTPC duties.

Actually I reasoned that I can go up to an A10 if I want, and the performance would go up a lot. Also, I just need the server to be good enough for 1080p and 3D playback, while running (probably) flexraid.

THANKS A LOT FOR YOUR HELP!

 

[brutalizer]

As for the 8GB of RAM, that's for the ZFS that we are recommending to you since it requires a lot of RAM. For 40 TB worth of storage, simple file server setups with 4GB of RAM are not going to work out well.

Jesus, it doesnt matter how many times people write this, but ZFS does not require lot of RAM. This myth is hard to kill, no matter how much you try.

ZFS has a very efficient RAM cache. If you have say, 1GB RAM, then ZFS can not use the RAM cache so ZFS will need to touch the disks. So read speed degrades to disk speed, instead of using RAM speed. But ZFS does not require gobs of RAM. In fact, I have used Solaris and ZFS with 1GB of RAM without problems. The only thing if you use less RAM, it will be slower.

And, there is no "1GB RAM for every 1TB disk" rule, it is also a myth:
http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1040688961&postcount=18

If you are only watching media files, then the RAM cache likely will never be used, so you could use 1GB RAM in your server. For a media server, I would myself use 4-8GB RAM.



And if you are using USB disks for storage, beware it is very fragile and might introduce data corruption. Back in the days when ZFS was new, I was very active on the Solaris ZFS mail list, talking to the ZFS developers, and they all recommended against ZFS on USB. Sure, ZFS will detect all data corruption, but might have problems repairing if you use USB disks. I wouldnt use USB disks if I had important data.

 

[Dangman]

Jesus, it doesnt matter how many times people write this, but ZFS does not require lot of RAM. This myth is hard to kill, no matter how much you try.

I got that piece of info from some of the more vocal ZFS supporters quite often a few years ago.

ZFS has a very efficient RAM cache. If you have say, 1GB RAM, then ZFS can not use the RAM cache so ZFS will need to touch the disks. So read speed degrades to disk speed, instead of using RAM speed. But ZFS does not require gobs of RAM. In fact, I have used Solaris and ZFS with 1GB of RAM without problems. The only thing if you use less RAM, it will be slower.

And, there is no "1GB RAM for every 1TB disk" rule, it is also a myth:
http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1040688961&postcount=18

If you are only watching media files, then the RAM cache likely will never be used, so you could use 1GB RAM in your server. For a media server, I would myself use 4-8GB RAM.

Ok which is what I was still recommending anyway: 8GB of RAM. For me, I really can't recommend 4GB of RAM these days due to their pricing: They're almost always overpriced to the point that $20 to $30 more gets you twice the amount of RAM.

 

[Aesma]

Where is the ECC RAM ?

 

[kwanbis]

Second, in terms of bang for the buck value, you're better off going to ebay, buy the IBM M1015 or LSI 9240-8i for around $100 to $110 shipped, buy two of these forward breakout cables for a total of $30, and flashing the firmware to IT mode.

Hi. I just got all the components and I already installed most things.

Now, I bought an original LSI 9240-8i, not an IBM Branded one. I believe I can still do the cross flash, but want to make sure.

The other question is, you mention IT mode, but it looks to me that IR mode has all the advantages of IT mode plus some, so, why do you mention IT mode and no IR mode?

And finally, it is not clear if I need to flash the latest firmware before doing the cross flash. Is that so?

THANKS!

 

[SirMaster]

Yes. I also know that the likelihood of it shitting the bed is FAR less than a software raid setup sitting on a budget server. I built a 6TB budget storage server with an areca raid card a few years back, and immediately had to run out and pop for a much faster CPU than the one I initially put in there. It literally chocked on the data coming in and out of the array.

A proper NAS is expensive, but so is a proper server.

I know this is an older comment but it's important to realize.

Do you realize that a Synology NAS is nothing more than a small PC running standard Linux kernel and using the software RAID that's built into the Linux kernel. It's called MD RAID and you can use it on any Linux PC. There is nothing more reliable about RAID in a Synology than in your own server PC. It's the exact same code inside the Linux kernel.

Also, Synology NAS don't even have ECC memory which is a great feature for a file server. So building your own can be even more robust.

Not even to mention filesystems like ZFS which you can use in your own server which are far more robust and reliable than the Linux RAID inside a Synology or QNAP, etc. Not that Linux RAID is bad, it's great in fact. It's just old and outdated really and there are just better things that can be done through software with these days.

 

[CharlesLam]

ZFS is far more reliable than anything i have ever seen. if only it was compatible on windows servers i would be on there already. My concern would be raid management if you go with a traditional raid array. i would want a good raid card in there. but maybe thats just me being overly paranoid.