4 1/2'' Hole saws

DarkenReaper57 said:
I see, thanks for the info. What if I were to sandwich the metal between plywood? Shouldn't this help things?
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You've gotta give the guy credit: he doesn't give up easily, does he? :p
 
BellaCroix said:
You've gotta give the guy credit: he doesn't give up easily, does he? :p
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Hahaha, no comment, I welcome every conversation thread that doesnt end in "oh yeah, well watch me try, you suck!" :)
 
What kind of results would a tungsten carbide bit produce on the side panels of a case in conjunction with a circle cutter?
 
BellaCroix said:
You've gotta give the guy credit: he doesn't give up easily, does he? :p
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Well, I got an awesome new tool, and I don't want to buy other stuff that I don't need :). I might at least give it a shot on scrap or something.

With my luck, I'll end up buying a holesaw after all.
 
DarkenReaper57 said:
Well, I got an awesome new tool, and I don't want to buy other stuff that I don't need :). I might at least give it a shot on scrap or something.

With my luck, I'll end up buying a holesaw after all.
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Give it a shot on a piece of scrap... in fact, give it a couple shots. If you're happy with the results after about the 4th or 5th run through go ahead on the real deal. If not, bask in the joy of having a really cool piece of power tool that I've wished I'd had many times while doing home improvement and run out and get a hole saw. :p
 
adurn03 said:
What kind of results would a tungsten carbide bit produce on the side panels of a case in conjunction with a circle cutter?
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Those bits arent much better (as those are the kind I actually get because they specifically mention metal cutting)... Most of the poor results come from the violent cutting... A slow rotating (lubricated with cutting oil) hole saw will just give you spot on cuts with minor deburring... Trust me, I own a Dremel 400XPR(gift), the Craftsman equivalent of the 400XPR, a Craftsman Cutting Tool, and the original Rotozip(didnt like as much as the Craftsman cutting tool). I love those tools with what you can do with them. Stellar results on what they are good at. Hole cutting in hard-soft metals is not their strong suit. It can be done, but results with hole cutting saws is just that much better.

Of course, dont use wood cutting hole saws, bimetal hole saws work best. And more expensive hole saws tend to last longer. Just depends on how many cuts you are going to be doing in time...
 
Well, I bit the bullet and bought a Blu-Mol holesaw and quick change mandrel. I need to make 4 accurate holes, so I figured it would be worth the investment. It is also something that I would like to have for the future for other projects.

I never did try the rotozip on sheet metal, but I didn't think it was worth the hassle. I'll save that tool for larger-scale projects (like cutting drywall and wood) :).

Anyway, should I back the sheet metal with wood when cutting? Is sewing machine oil sufficient lubricant? Should I drill a small pilot hole first?
 
DarkenReaper57 said:
Well, I bit the bullet and bought a Blu-Mol holesaw and quick change mandrel. I need to make 4 accurate holes, so I figured it would be worth the investment. It is also something that I would like to have for the future for other projects.

I never did try the rotozip on sheet metal, but I didn't think it was worth the hassle. I'll save that tool for larger-scale projects (like cutting drywall and wood) :).

Anyway, should I back the sheet metal with wood when cutting? Is sewing machine oil sufficient lubricant? Should I drill a small pilot hole first?
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Unquestionaly, drill a pilot hole. My suggestion (and maybe some will disagree) is to make the pilot hole just a few mm smaller than the drill part of the mandrel. It'll keep the holesaw from dancing around your surface before it actually starts cutting into the case.

I'll usually drill a pre-pilot hole with a 1/4" bit which allows me to line up the holes more accurately, then re-drill the pilot with the final hole size, then go to work with the hole saw. It's a couple extra steps but has always worked great for me and I've never been sorry for the added work.

You want to have something behind the panel you're working on, it'll prevent flex and distortion of the case as well as keep you from drilling a hole in your mom's linoleum. Wood will work great. I used to use huge blocks of styrofoam I had laying around because it allowed me to press the panel into in to keep from bending rails, notches, tabs, etc. In absence of big blocks of foamcore/styrofoam just use wood but be certain you're not bending something that shouldn't be bent.

The sewing machine oil should be okay. To be honest I've never used oil. I understand the benefit of it and it's a great idea but I've gotta be cheap somewhere and since I'm usually cutting aluminum it's not really that necessary.

Congrats on the purchase by the way... you won't regret it. And if you do you'll still be able to eBay it probably. :p
 
If you hit eBay at the right moment, you can score a high quality hole saw like this 4 1/2 " DeWalt that I got for $14 plus $5 shipping. I was at Ace Hardware today and noticed that they wanted $32.99 for their brand hole saw (same size).
 
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Pagan Wizard said:
If you hit eBay at the right moment, you can score a high quality hole saw like this 4 1/2 " DeWalt that I got for $14 plus $5 shipping. I was at Ace Hardware today and noticed that they wanted $32.99 for their brand hole saw (same size).
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That is a great price (the eBay price, that is)... wondering how that tooth shape will really work on metal. When you've had a chance to give it a spin (pun intended) let me know how well it worked... especially if you've had the chance to use a Blu-Mol holesaw or another one with the squared/angled teeth. Those teeth look better suited for wood rather than metal.

Always looking for new tools and I might have to pick up a Dewalt and give them a try since I love my home-improvement Dewalt drill (can't bring myself to buy a Makita: something about overpriced, teal-colored power tools).
 
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The saw in the pic on the eBay page is not a 4 1/2 inch saw, you can tell that by how bold the brand name is on the side of the saw.
 
Pagan Wizard said:
The saw in the pic on the eBay page is not a 4 1/2 inch saw, you can tell that by how bold the brand name is on the side of the saw.
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I was thinking the same thing, then I figured maybe the holesaw is actually 4-1/2" x 9" and weighs about 10 pounds. :p
 
The other problem I see with just what is on that ebay link is the particular mentioning of softmetal cutting. None of those metals are hard (aluminum, brass, bronze, copper).

And yeah, you dont have to use oil, but it lengthens the life of the saw (and bits) in sharpness as well as keeping them from oxidizing. Just good tool usage thats all. Cutting oil helps make it possible to cut metal faster. It prevent the bits from siezing and sticking to the cutting tool while cutting. It isnt very expensive and you can pick up some very good oils for less than $20 (which has lasted me more than a year for a gallon). I picked up Rigid Dark Cutting Oil for about $19 back when, but I noticed it is going for $8 for a quart, $15 for a gallon at my usual supply place (http://www.jtsmach.com/). They have tons of cutting oils to choose from. Your tools will thank you with much longer lifespans... Especially helpfull when using small hole cutting bits...
 
Pagan Wizard said:
The saw in the pic on the eBay page is not a 4 1/2 inch saw, you can tell that by how bold the brand name is on the side of the saw.
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I can't vouch for the saw's ability on soft metals or whether it would be useful for our applications, but it is in fact a 4.5 saw. The picture is taken from the Dewalt site and apparently is just a representative photo of all their hole-saws in this line, but not this exact one. If you check the actual item number, it is for the 114mm saw.
 
Lawdog said:
I can't vouch for the saw's ability on soft metals or whether it would be useful for our applications, but it is in fact a 4.5 saw. The picture is taken from the Dewalt site and apparently is just a representative photo of all their hole-saws in this line, but not this exact one. If you check the actual item number, it is for the 114mm saw.
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I just got the saw in the mail today. It looks just like any other 4 1/2 inch hole saw, the tooth pattern is nowhere near as aggressive as the one in the eBay pic. The box clearly states both 4 1/2 inch and 114mm. The box also states the saw can be used for " wood and metal cutting including aluminum brass bronze copper plastic and other compositions" I'll give this thing a spin over the weekend and let you know how it performed.
 
Pagan Wizard said:
I just got the saw in the mail today. It looks just like any other 4 1/2 inch hole saw, the tooth pattern is nowhere near as aggressive as the one in the eBay pic. The box clearly states both 4 1/2 inch and 114mm. The box also states the saw can be used for " wood and metal cutting including aluminum brass bronze copper plastic and other compositions" I'll give this thing a spin over the weekend and let you know how it performed.
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Cool... hope it works.
 
I was at lowes today and got a nice 3" Lenox hole saw for 13.50. It includes a mandrel and the company web site states theyre bimetal saws good for hard and soft metal. They had a whole rack of sizes from 3/4" all the way up to 4 1/2 ". As far as I remember they all had included mandrels. Would WD-40 work as a saw lubricant while cutting??? just a dumb question??? happy 4th. :D
 
magoo said:
Would WD-40 work as a saw lubricant while cutting??? just a dumb question???
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That is actually NOT a dumb question. You can buy some drilling or cutting oil at any hardware / home improvement store. WD40 is probably not a good choice for a cutting lubricant. In a pinch, you can also use a small amount of motor oil (for car engines).
 
In the electrical business, I use Greenlee and Milwaukee hole saws, preferring the Greenlee. They sell Greenlee at Home Depot in the electrical section, not sure about cost as I haven't bought any holesaws for quite a while. They both hold up very well and we hardly ever use oil, (to hard to clean up, and can ruin whatever it is your drilling). and they sem to run forever. Oil is a good idea though but not crucial.

Greenlee make a very nice arbor (mandrell some call it) that you push up the two pins that line up with the two in the hole saw and kind of locks in place. Much better than a nut that can loosen and then the saw screws itself tight on the arbor which can be a real pain in the ass to remove.

Lennox, Greenlee, and Milwaukee are all excellent quality.

One other note on arbors, the above brands have only arbors in 1/2 inch for the larger sizes. Reason being, you really should use a 1/2 inch drill motor, especially at 4 1/2" hole. You can burn up a cheap 3/8" drill motor pretty quickly under that kind of load. 3/8 arbors stop 1 1/2" IIRC in my kits.
 
Just mosey on down to the local machine shop and ask the most grizzled dude there to do it for a six pack.TADA.....6 dolla hole saw.
 
Pagan Wizard said:
I just got the saw in the mail today. It looks just like any other 4 1/2 inch hole saw, the tooth pattern is nowhere near as aggressive as the one in the eBay pic. The box clearly states both 4 1/2 inch and 114mm. The box also states the saw can be used for " wood and metal cutting including aluminum brass bronze copper plastic and other compositions" I'll give this thing a spin over the weekend and let you know how it performed.
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Well last night I finally got the cahonies built up to drill out the 27 rivets that were holding the top of the case in place to remove the lid (I did this because I have warped cases in the past while cutting holes with the top still on). I first drilled out the 4 fan mounting holes, then a pilot hole in the center of those holes. Then I broke out the 4 1/2 inch saw and it went through the case top like a hot knife through melted butter. I just have a few burrs that need to be ground out with the Dremel, but other than that the hole is perfect. 4 1/2 inches converts to 114mm, but the hole itself is just a bit wider than the actual fan blades, so the hole will work out perfectly.
 
Also, and I'm sure I'm completely wrong about this: It's my theory that keeping the hole slightly smaller than the diameter of the fan blades may reduce noise a little. I've heard the majority of fan noise comes from the edges of the blades tearing through the air around them. If that's the source of the noise then it makes sense to me that creating something like a sound baffle would quiet them.

Of course, I've never actually tested that theory and do not have a dB meter around to actually measure it. But I've always used 4.5" holesaws for 120mm fans and some of the same fans people complained about being loud do not trouble me at all.

Sure, that's subjective: what's loud for someone might not be loud to someone else, but I've always been really happy with the results using that combination.
 
BellaCroix said:
Also, and I'm sure I'm completely wrong about this
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Yes you are wrong, what happens when the hole is smaller than the actual fan blade pattern, is that the fan blows the air onto whatever the hole was cut into. This creates something known as "drag". Drag is responsible for increased levels of noise, and a reduction of airflow.
 
Pagan Wizard said:
Yes you are wrong, what happens when the hole is smaller than the actual fan blade pattern, is that the fan blows the air onto whatever the hole was cut into. This creates something known as "drag". Drag is responsible for increased levels of noise, and a reduction of airflow.
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Never tested the smaller hole concept, but I would have to agree that the smaller hole than the fan blade would make more noise than what would seem to be more free flowing air with larger than the fan blades. 114mm (4.5 inch) for me...
 
Mickey21 said:
Never tested the smaller hole concept, but I would have to agree that the smaller hole than the fan blade would make more noise than what would seem to be more free flowing air with larger than the fan blades. 114mm (4.5 inch) for me...
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In all reality, 114MM and 120MM makes almost zero difference in airflow. You have about the same level of restriction from the missing 6mm as you do from putting a chrome grille on the fan, negligable.

Besides, have you noticed that the inner diameter of a 120MM fan is NOT 120MM? 120MM is the outer diameter.
 
Dew said:
In all reality, 114MM and 120MM makes almost zero difference in airflow. You have about the same level of restriction from the missing 6mm as you do from putting a chrome grille on the fan, negligable.

Besides, have you noticed that the inner diameter of a 120MM fan is NOT 120MM? 120MM is the outer diameter.
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By smaller hole diameter, I was referring to the above suggestion that the hole be made to smaller than the diameter of the fan BLADES. Smaller than the fan blades would actually be more like 108mm or smaller. 114mm is already larger than the fan blades and 120mm is just that much larger than them as well. Of course even larger would not make a difference. The question was smaller than 114mm.

But to disagree with something you just mentioned, 6mm in fan diameter is quite a difference. 6mm wider with 120mm size holes makes it croach a little to close to the stuctural integrity of the fan mounting holes. Just my experience that's all...
 
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