30" Korean

[NCX]

You found one example of an obscure manufacturer apparently using a 7-year old panel.

But I was wrong and my lack of research has prevented people from knowing about obscure, mediocre 30" monitors. Think of all the poor people who would have paid more for a big grainy, glowy standard gamut First 30" with poor black levels over their a grain free, overclock-able Qnix/X-Star which have much better black levels and far less glow.

I thought Apple replaced the panel with a wide gamut one like Dell did with the 3007. Can't wait for another massive wall of text.

 

[Odellus]

did you ever find out if the glass is removable from the qnix, or how to if it's possible. this shit is destroying my soul.

 

[Fortigurn]

Could you have maybe just added your experience to the thread in a positive manner without the walls of text...?

I did. The 'walls of text' came later when he was trying to cover up his error and draw an irrelevant price comparison between buying a 27" monitor which could have up to five dead pixels, and a 30" monitor guaranteed to have none.

I don't think anyone said "all 30" panels have been wide gamut since the beginning of time." Just that "all currently shipping 30" are wide gamut."

I agree. But all currently shipping 30" are not wide gamut; TFT Central's list shows at least five different current 30" panels being used, which are not wide gamut.

The ACD you keep bringing up has been discontinued for 4 years, so I don't see how it is relevant.

I only raised it because it was claimed that panel has never been used by any brand name manufacturer. But it has, and the ACD is still being sold, and replacement panels for it are still being sold, and those panels are still the specific non-wide gamut panel to which I referred.

You found one example of an obscure manufacturer apparently using a 7-year old panel.

I found a list of five 30" non-wide gamut panels actually. And the manufacturer I cited is no more obscure than Shimian, Catleap, Crossover, or Yamasaki. The First brand 27" and 30" monitors are sold by exactly the same well known retailers of Korean monitors who sell those other brands; greensum, dream_seller and 2560x1440.com. Picking one name out of the list of the brands they sell and calling it 'obscure' only shows a lack of familiarity with what they sell.

All the research in the world wouldn't have mattered, since there are zero reviews and the manufacturer claims 1.07B colors in their specs. (ie, they have no clue what the hell they are actually selling.)

It didn't take me all the research in the world to discover before I bought it that the panel was most likely not wide-gamut. On the OCAU forums I did a detailed comparison of the manufacturer's stated specifications with the list of 30" panels on TFT Central, and concluded it was most likely a standard gamut monitor. And so it proved to be.

The manufacturer does not claim 1.07B colors; it seems you haven't actually read the manufacturer's listed specifications. This is precisely the kind of misinformation which is confusing people looking into the Korean monitor market, which I'm trying to address. The specifications listed by the manufacturer did not include any reference to how many colors were covered by the monitor, which is why I wanted to find out.

When I asked the retailer (whose site you're probably referring to), if the monitor was wide gamut or not, they said it wasn't, but they couldn't tell me if any of their 30" monitors were wide gamut or not (and some of them are), so I took their advice with a grain of salt and did my own research. And now there is a review of this monitor which people can use to decide if it's for them.

[lots of irrelevant hand-waving]

Let me put it simply.

1. You represent yourself here as a reliable authority on these monitors, but you need to do a lot more research and get your facts straight before you can legitimately lay claim to that title. It was reading posts like yours which were clearly contradicted by genuinely authoritative sources such as TFT Central, which prompted my review.

2. You were clearly unaware that the First monitors you claim are 'obsure' are in fact sold by the same popular vendors selling the Shimian, Crossover, Catleap, and Yamasaki, and are no more 'obscure' than these other brands.

3. You tried to claim I overspent US$150 (which you now acknowledge was an exaggeration), by making a false comparison; a 27" monitor which could have up to five dead pixels, and a 30" monitor guaranteed to have none. Even the cheapest pixel perfect 27" Korean monitors sold by the standard retailers are not US$300. You need to compare a perfect pixel 30" monitor to another perfect pixel 30" monitor.

4. You claimed the issue of the original matte coating was not a matter of personal preference; it was objectively bad. When presented with clear evidence that many people had no problem with this coating and many professionals preferred it, you claimed 'argumentum ad populum' (demonstrating you have no idea what this means; I was not saying 'many people say X, therefore X is true').

5. No one has said it is 'logical to recommend more expensive, worse performing wide gamut monitors to those who want a monitor for multi-media related use'. You keep dragging out this straw man, showing you want to avoid the actual argument.

6. When I said I would 30" Crossover 30X Black Tune IPS LED next, you said 'Enjoy the overshoot ghosting'. I don't think I'll notice any. Someone once said this monitor 'does not suffer from obvious overshoot ghosting unlike 3014'. Oh wait, that was you. Clearly you can't even remember your own words (way to contradict yourself). Fortunately this statement of yours is at least verifiable, since the highly detailed Korean review to which you and I both linked substantiates this.

 

[austinpike]

and the ACD is still being sold...

No. It. Isn't. Discontinued July 26, 2010. It just isn't. Dead. Done. Gone outside of eBay or some dusty warehouse.

it seems you haven't actually read the manufacturer's listed specifications.

I admit I don't read Chinese. The reseller page you linked in your own review states 1.07B colors. On the actual manufacturer page
I'll admit that "72%" appears, which would imply 72% of aRGB or NTSC, ie, 100% sRGB. So there's that. Nothing about 1.07 or 16.7 or anything else.

Picking one name out of the list of the brands they sell and calling it 'obscure' only shows a lack of familiarity with what they sell.

Crossover: 498 results
Shimian: 241 results
Catleap: 498 results
Yamakasi: 201 results

F301GD: TWO results (both yours)
___________________________________________________________

1.) All 30" IPS are wide gamut.

So I ordered this First F301GD off eBay; haven't seen it mentioned on this forum before. Apparently it uses an sRGB panel from like 2007. So it turns out is actually possible to get a 30" standard gamut panel besides the long discontinued Apple Cinema Display.

 

[Fortigurn]

No. It. Isn't. Discontinued July 26, 2010. It just isn't. Dead. Done. Gone outside of eBay or some dusty warehouse.

No one disputed that it has been discontinued and is no longer sold by Apple.

I admit I don't read Chinese.

It's Korean, but I don't read it either.

The reseller page you linked in your own review states 1.07B colors.

Yes, the reseller, just like I said.

On the actual manufacturer page
I'll admit that "72%" appears, which would imply 72% of aRGB or NTSC, ie, 100% sRGB. So there's that. Nothing about 1.07 or 16.7 or anything else.

That's exactly the point I made in my review on the OCAU forums, and that's why I commented there that it was most likely to be a standard gamut display.

Crossover: 498 results
Shimian: 241 results
Catleap: 498 results
Yamakasi: 201 results

F301GD: TWO results (both yours)
[SIZE="5"

That doesn't prove it's obscure, it just proves people on this forum are more familiar with the four most popular brands. As I have already pointed out, the brand is no more obscure than the other brands you listed, and is sold by the most popular retailers of all the Korean monitors.

So it turns out is actually possible to get a 30" standard gamut panel besides the long discontinued Apple Cinema Display.

Exactly. And people need to do their research in order to know if they're getting what they want. And those who purchase, need to do reviews for the benefit of others.

 

[NCX]

But all currently shipping 30" are not wide gamut; TFT Central's list shows at least five different current 30" panels being used, which are not wide gamut.

Panels from 2004-2007 are not current and the last main steam monitor to use the panel was discontinued in 2010. Can you prove that the standard gamut First 30" was available at the time of my post from December 9, 2013? Don't bother.

You still haven't come up with a valid reason for one to think that sRGB 30" panels are still being used. Citing TFT Centrals panel list of standard gamut 30" panels, the latest of which is from 2007, isn't valid.

The First brand 27" and 30" monitors are sold by exactly the same well known retailers of Korean monitors who sell those other brands; greensum, dream_seller and 2560x1440.com. Picking one name out of the list of the brands they sell and calling it 'obscure' only shows a lack of familiarity with what they sell.

Google the First 301GD and 300GL and see that the first page doesn't contain a single relevant result. There are also no proper First reviews and only 2 threads on overclock.net, one of which is yours and the other which received no replies. First is an obscure Korean brand compared to Achieva, Crossover, PCBank, Qnix X-Star and Yamakasi.

You tried to claim I overspent US$150 (which you now acknowledge was an exaggeration), by making a false comparison.

Prices fluctuate, but it has been possible to obtain pixel perfect 27" for 300$ by watching the prices or by making offers.

When presented with clear evidence that many people had no problem with this coating and many professionals preferred it, you claimed 'argumentum ad populum' (demonstrating you have no idea what this means; I was not saying 'many people say X, therefore X is true').

Your post certainly implied it and your attempt to play dumb is 100% transparent. The Samsung S27A850D is the first mainstream, affordable high resolution display to use a light matte coating which came out during Q3 2011. You will likely claim this is irrelevant so I won't waste any time elaborating.

Someone once said this monitor 'does not suffer from obvious overshoot ghosting unlike 3014'. Oh wait, that was you. Clearly you can't even remember your own words (way to contradict yourself). Fortunately this statement of yours is at least verifiable, since the highly detailed Korean review to which you and I both linked substantiates this.

That's an old post, in newer posts I linked =DEAD='s review in which he states that the 30X suffers from the same obvious overshoot ghosting as the Dell 3014 which shows up when scrolling text slowly and moving windows. Since you are the master of research I figured you might further research the 30X, but you didn't.

 

[jojo69]

loving my $300 yamakasi catleap about now

 

[austinpike]

Point being you could have posted this:

So I ordered this First F301GD off eBay; haven't seen it mentioned on this forum before. Apparently it uses an sRGB panel from like 2007. So it turns out is actually possible to get a 30" standard gamut panel besides the long discontinued Apple Cinema Display.

Instead of this:

No they aren't. I see this popular misconception all over the internet, typically expressed by people who don't have one of these monitors, or who do have one and have no idea how to test the color gamut or calibrate it.

A good start towards getting a clue about Korean panels, would be to read this. It's clear from this list that there are a number of IPS panels which do not have an extended color gamut; five standard gamut LG 30" S-IPS panels are listed there.

See my brief review of the 30" First F301GD Live here; it does not have an extended gamut, it covers 98% of sRGB, 74% of NTSC, and 78% of AdobeRGB.

and we all could have skipped the last 20 posts.

 

[silk186]

Deal of the year for me, but I bought a used 30" Yamakasi 300 Sparta (Dual DVI only) for my gf on [H] for $300 shipped. Instabought that shit and it's equally as good as my other 27" Korean (but dwarfs it in size).

I never heard of Yamakasi so i looked it up "Up 5 dead pixels are normal. These are not the reason of return or compensate. (LG A- Level Pannel)". Putting this in a product description does not lead to confidence.

 

[geok1ng]

Is it still only capable of 85% of sRGB?

That is a weird report that was also complaining of banding. As this TV is utterly incapable of showing the level of banding that review when properly calibrated, i assume that either the reviewer was producing bad press for unknow reasons, or a computer iliterrate, as most photographers using Macs are.

Turns out that both NVIDIA and AMD drivers select YCbCr as default for the TV, so a computer illiterate user would blame the chinese TV and instead of wonder if the computer is outputting a RGB signal. Other review reported 100% sRGB coverage , and in the Seiki thread here all users that selected RGB in the VGA control panel report absolute success on all the Lagom tests- first VA panel that i have seen pass both black and white levels there- and no banding. No self-respected photographer would use a VA panel for serious stuff due to horizontal gamma shift, but then again, the same can be said of cheap koreans 30", with the trick problem that you cant reprogram the white point in the LUt of a cheap 30", but you have total control of gain and offset for each color channel inside the Seiki service menu, Dispalys twice the price don't have this degree of flexibility during calibration.

 

[Ribby]

I bought a 30" Crossover and have 2x 30" Dell (3014 and an older one - maybe 3008?).

The crossover feels better than the 3008 or whatever I have, but not quite as good as the 3014. It could be that the older Dell is just that - old and used more.

I haven't gamed on the Crossover, but am talking in terms of colour, contrast etc. If my Dell(s) died I'd want to go for a 4K screen, but if there weren't any around I'd replace with a Crossover in a heartbeat, but would test for gaming performance first.

Edit: I didn't pay extra for the dead pixel check, and there are no dead pixels on this unit.

 

[gokica]

I am looking to buy a Korean 30" sRGB monitor. I see here that First 301GD Live is as such. Can you please recommend other brands that do not come with wide gamut?

Thank you.

 

[icor1031]

Way to over react, man. Swear much?

1) It's not wide-gamut. It's sRGB only.

 

[austinpike]

I am looking to buy a Korean 30" sRGB monitor. I see here that First 301GD Live is as such. Can you please recommend other brands that do not come with wide gamut?

I think the main point of the last 30 posts is that the 301GD is the only new, shipping 30" sRGB that is currently available as far as anyone knows. Is there some feature you are looking for that the First is lacking?

Personally I would be pretty hesitant to spend $ on a 30" CCFL right now, there look to be a number of interesting higher res panels coming out this year.

 

[gokica]

I think the main point of the last 30 posts is that the 301GD is the only new, shipping 30" sRGB that is currently available as far as anyone knows. Is there some feature you are looking for that the First is lacking?

Personally I would be pretty hesitant to spend $ on a 30" CCFL right now, there look to be a number of interesting higher res panels coming out this year.

Yes, this is why I was asking for other models/brands on this topic. I would like to buy LED monitor with sRGB coverage but it seems that none exist.

CCFL is a thing of the past but still for about $500 a 30 inch 1600p monitor is a good deal I believe.

I would like to have 30" 16:10 monitor for work with documents and excel tables basically. Some gaming from time to time and also watching movies. The movies are the only thing that concern me when discussing sRGB coverage/wide gamut because I would not like to see actors with face burns on the screen.

As for other options I am really not aware but if we are talking about 4K monitors I think that I do not like a resolution that high on nothing less than 37-39 incher because the text will be too small for me on a 28-32 incher.

Thank you.

 

[NCX]

Unless you plan on sitting at least 4ft away 30" suck for watching movies due to the far more pronounced IPS glow and the CCFL back-lit models have very poor black levels due to the low contrast+glow. The First 30" is likely lucky to have >500:1 contrast ratio (700:1 according to the specifications) since newer panels with 1000:1 specified contrast ratios typically fail to exceed 700:1.

500$ buys a good 2560x1440 27" Korean monitor and a PWM free, 1080p name brand monitor like the Acer H226HL or S236HL, none of which use grainy matte coatings or have poor black levels like all of the CCFL back-lit 30" monitors do. The tiny resolution increase 1600p offers vs. 1440p is not worth paying for over two quality monitors which will provide more pixel real-estate.

 

[gokica]

Unless you plan on sitting at least 4ft away 30" suck for watching movies due to the far more pronounced IPS glow and the CCFL back-lit models have very poor black levels due to the low contrast+glow. The First 30" is likely lucky to have >500:1 contrast ratio (700:1 according to the specifications) since the models with 1000:1 specified contrast ratios typically fail to exceed 700:1.

500$ buys a good 2560x1440 27" Korean monitor and a PWM free, 1080p name brand monitor like the Acer H226HL or S236HL, none of which use grainy matte coatings or have poor black levels like all of the CCFL back-lit 30" monitors do. The tiny resolution increase 1600p offers vs. 1440p is not worth paying for over two quality monitors which will provide more pixel real-estate.

Thank you.

Well I was thinking about buying Dell u2713hm at first but after seeing the difference in screen real estate between 27 and 30" I thought that it would be a better option.

Currently I am working on u2412m and going back to 16:9 feels like deterioration for me. Also going down from 0.27 dot pitch to 0.23 seems steep. 0.25 on the 30" seems more acceptable.

But after reading your post I am becoming more inclined into getting the 2713hm.

 

[NCX]

But after reading your post I am becoming more inclined into getting the 2713hm.

Added some more educational links above The U2713HM is plagued with quality control and unit performance variance issues (some units suffer from very obvious overshoot ghosting [obvious transparent and colored glow which forms around moving objects] which shows up when scrolling text slowly/basic use and cross-hatching issues (faint chain-link fence-esque which show up when viewing light colors and whites), it's easily one of the worst 1440p monitors.

The HP ZR2740W and BenQ BL2710PT are the best sub-600$ name brand 1440p monitors.

 

[gokica]

Added some more educational links above The U2713HM is plagued with quality control and unit performance variance issues (some units suffer from very obvious overshoot ghosting [obvious transparent and colored glow which forms around moving objects] which shows up when scrolling text slowly/basic use and cross-hatching issues (faint chain-link fence-esque which show up when viewing light colors and whites), it's easily one of the worst 1440p monitors.

The HP ZR2740W and BenQ BL2710PT are the best sub-600$ name brand 1440p monitors.

Wonderful. Thank you for the education links.

The thing with the Dell is I can buy it from a local seller meaning that I can most probably see "the goods" before buying and also issues under warranty can be easily dealt with.

Unfortunately HP is not available locally and Benq is not present with this model. This would basically mean that I should end up with an online order. Well if that is what it takes that probably that is what I am going to do.

Thank you so much for sharing all this with me.

 

[Panmaster]

That HPZR2740W is over a year old.

 

[gokica]

What about the HP Z30i monitor. Is there any cheaper but good sRGB 30" brand monitor that supports 1600p?

Also is Z27i better than its predecessor and u2713H because I can only find this monitor available to be shipped in my country?

Thank you.

 

[NCX]

That HPZR2740W is over a year old.

So what?

What about the HP Z30i monitor. Is there any cheaper but good sRGB 30" brand monitor that supports 1600p?

Also is Z27i better than its predecessor and u2713H because I can only find this monitor available to be shipped in my country?

Thank you.

The Z30i is wide gamut and does not have an sRGB mode, it is also a rip off since one can usually buy 2x superior, name brand 1440p monitors for the same price. The Z27i (Review in Russian, use Google or Chrome to translate) is a multi-input model with it has faster pixel response times (less ghosting) and color controls, otherwise it is not better than the ZR2740W.

 

[gokica]

Thank you. I will not be going off topic any more.

I will just end up saying that I made inquiry at a local seller and where I live Z27i can be had (ordered) for USD 760 while the u2713hm is USD 600.

Even u2713h is around USD 720 i.e. cheaper than the Z27i.

The Z30i can be ordered for around USD 1,400 (local seller warranty) and obviously it is a no go.

Thank you very much. I guess I will try my luck online or just wait for a better option to come.

 

[NCX]

What about the Eizo EV2736W, HP Z27R40W and Viewsonic VP2770? These are all better options than the Dells.

 

[gokica]

Once again thank you so much. That model of HP can not be delivered via a reseller here and Eizo is not available at all. But tomorrow I will try asking for the possibility of having Viewsonic delivered to me.

I will keep everybody posted with my decision. Thank you so much.

 

[gokica]

An update. I ended up buying Dell U2713HM. The other option was HP Z27i which was $130 more expensive and Dell U2713H with about the same difference. I thought that the price difference for the Z27i was steep and 2713H will not work for me because I need sRGB monitor.

So far so good. Comparing to my Dell 2412 I like the color calibration out of the box which seems on the warm side but pleasant. No deviations and no problems. Just a little lightbleed on the left but nothing very noticeable.

Comparing to u2412m the text seems more "tense" causing sort of like more eye strain but I guess I will get used to it.

Now I know that I would never buy 4K 28" monitor for my needs.

I would like to thank everybody that helped me in the pursuit.