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3-way 5870 or 5970?

U

Undercover_Man

[H]ard Surgeon
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Jan 17, 2010
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Hello, I have decided to go with Radeon for my new system. I'm going to assume that a 3-way 5970 will out do a 5870. Am I correct? If not then why? The 5970 is a dual gpu card so wouldn't it be stronger?

After I get that answered, which manufacturer would be the most recommended? Price doesn't matter. I don't know how to overclock yet but I plan on researching it and having a try at it. So it should be OC friendly.

THANX
~ Undercover_Man
 
You can't run 3 5970s, only 2. Running two 5970s would be a total of 4 GPUs, which should be quicker than a 3-way setup most of the time. If you want to do 3 gpus, you can use 1 5970 and 1 5870 together.
 
Abit667 said:
You can't run 3 5970s, only 2. Running two 5970s would be a total of 4 GPUs, which should be quicker than a 3-way setup most of the time. If you want to do 3 gpus, you can use 1 5970 and 1 5870 together.
Click to expand...
This.

But Above 2 GPU's scales very poorly. It is not worth it. I recommend just going for a single 5970.
 
Having used 3x 8800 GTXs, 2x 4870 X2s, and now 3x 5870s, I can tell you the extra cost and energy/heat is just not worth it to have more than 2 GPUs in a system.

The only value here would be for use at high resolution and AA in Eyefinity. However, Eyefinity does not currently work with most games with dual card Crossfire much less triple cards.
 
Abit667 said:
You can't run 3 5970s, only 2. Running two 5970s would be a total of 4 GPUs, which should be quicker than a 3-way setup most of the time. If you want to do 3 gpus, you can use 1 5970 and 1 5870 together.
Click to expand...

I hate to say this but I tried running a 5970 + 5870 and the noise was horrible from the fans. I also had issues with the top card throttling back performance during long gaming sessions due to heat. If you are planning to go this route you need watercooling imo
 
Yeah, I learned last night that there is a limit to GPU's you can use. 4 max. Therefore, I am trying to figure out if a 4-way 5870 or a 2-way 5970 would be better. Have there been any tests done? Would even a 3-way 5870 beat a 2-way 5970?
 
While 4 is the max number of GPUs, scaling sucks past two GPUs for both Nvidia and ATi. You'll get about 10 to 20 percent more performance from the third GPU at most, and almost none at all from the fourth, so 2-way 5970 is a waste. The 5870 has higher factory clock speeds than the GPUs in the 5970, so two 5870s will beat a 5970. Some games even disable a second dual-GPU card because performance is worse with it than without.

A 4-way 5870 setup is a no. There is no point in doing that. Even 3-way 5870 is a very questionable value. Go with two 5870 cards and see if there's anything that can't do for you before you go spending more than that.

What CPU will you be using, and what monitor setup?
 
At this point why not wait a bit and see what the GF100 does, at the very least you should be paying a little less in a couple months, but if you're ready then you''re ready.
 
Undercover_Man said:
Yeah, I learned last night that there is a limit to GPU's you can use. 4 max. Therefore, I am trying to figure out if a 4-way 5870 or a 2-way 5970 would be better. Have there been any tests done? Would even a 3-way 5870 beat a 2-way 5970?
Click to expand...
are you just trying to see how much money you can waste or are you maybe just trying to impress some other geeks? really why on earth do you "think" that you need that much gpu power? have you even look at a review of those cards? if you have then you would know that at 1920 even a single 5870 will tear through most games. 5870 crossfire would be okay at 1920 with an overclocked i7 for those 2 or 3 games that you already cant max with a single 5870. 3 5870 cards in crossfire is bordering on insane and you are not going to get much scaling past the second one anyway. even contemplating having 4 5870 cards if you are below 2560 would tell me that you need to put the credit card down and do some more research.

if you are going to go with a 2560 res monitor than a 5870 crossfire setup or single 5970 would be great. although unnecessary, 3 5870 cards at 2560 would not be too crazy like it would at 1920. 4 5870 cards even at 2560 would be very foolish though as again they are not going to scale well past 2 much less 3 cards. not to mention all the power, heat and noise of trying to run a setup like that.
 
heatlesssun said:
At this point why not wait a bit and see what the GF100 does, at the very least you should be paying a little less in a couple months, but if you're ready then you''re ready.
Click to expand...

Maybe he want to actually play video-games instead of the waiting game. If you always wait to see whats just around the corner, you're never going to actually build a system.

As for 2 5970s vs 4 5870s, the 5870s will be faster due to the lower clocks of the 5970s because of thermal and power reasons. You can always overclock the 5970s, but you can also overclock the 5870s, and often to a higher speed.
 
Undercover_Man said:
I will be using i7-920. I don't have a monitor picked out yet.
Click to expand...

If you are using a single monitor, then you don't need more than two GPUs, no matter how big it is. Either two 5870s or one 5970 are plenty even for high settings and AA on 2560x1600. Two 5870s will be faster and more overclockable than the 5970, but the 5970 will be a lot simpler by taking only one video card slot.
 
Undercover_Man said:
I will be using i7-920. I don't have a monitor picked out yet.
Click to expand...

If you're only using a single monitor, a two GPU setup will most likely be all you need for a very long time. If you really have that much money to burn and judging by how you're posing your questions, a single 5970 would be the best bet for you for ease of use. Any more than that and you'll just be wasting money on something you'll never notice the difference (i.e. 100 FPS vs 120 FPS). Tinker around with overclocking a single 5970 before you drop more money. If that is not enough for whatever reason, buy aftermarket coolers because you're going to have heat issues with another card in there.

Since you dont know much about overclocking, you're probably not factoring in heat issues at all. It's very possible that 4 GPUs without aftermarket cooling will overheat easily, leading to throttling with less total power than a single card.

Before you go beyond 2 GPUs, I would suggest answering these questions first.

What motherboard are you looking at?
What PSU are you thinking about getting?
What knowledge do you have about watercooling on GPUs?
 
Undercover_Man said:
. Therefore, I am trying to figure out if a 4-way 5870 or a 2-way 5970 would be better. Have there been any tests done? Would even a 3-way 5870 beat a 2-way 5970?
Click to expand...

You don't exactly need to see tests done with that specific setup to understand this basic concept:

The HD 5970 is basically two slightly lower clocked HD 5870 cards. There is very very little scaling past 2 GPUs let alone 3 or 4. So basically, you're comparing 3 way HD 5870 and 3 Way HD 5870 when you're talking Tri-Crossfire HD 5870 VS Crossfire HD 5970.

Now whether or not you need Tri-Crossfire HD 5870 depends on the max resolution of your planned LCD monitor purchase. Tri-Crossfire HD 5870 is definitely a tad overkill for 1920x1200. So if you want Tri-Crossfire HD 5870, get a monitor with at least 2560x1600 res.
 
My 3 5870s are a good deal faster than my two were. Scaling isn't perfect, but it also isn't that bad. And I play with vsync forced on, so I never see above 60, it's funny to see jealous people calling it a complete waste though.

2560x1600 is still a pretty tough resolution to push and maintain a solid 60fps in all situations. If you are after maximum maintained performance, there is nothing wrong with a triple or quad setup.

If you can afford 3 5870s or two 5970s, why not? Don't trust some jealous poorbies on the internet who want to lie and tell you 'omg they'll overheat and throttle down'

My three cards have stock cooling and have not clock throttled or overheated once even on automatic fan settings, I don't always leave them on auto, but I haven't had a compelling reason outside of curiosity to crank them higher.
 
You wouldn't need anything more than a 5970 unless you are thinking about using Eyefinity with 30" panels (2560x1600). Otherwise a 5970, and even a 5870 will provide enough performance for a 3x 1920x1200 setup.
 
rUmX said:
You wouldn't need anything more than a 5970 unless you are thinking about using Eyefinity with 30" panels (2560x1600). Otherwise a 5970, and even a 5870 will provide enough performance for a 3x 1920x1200 setup.
Click to expand...

A single 5870 isn't enough power to consistently max out games, just look at the [H] Eyefinity review. But it is enough to get solid performance and high settings if not maxed out.
 
Regarding cooling - the cooler on these cards is not designed to be used front-to-back with another identical card. THAT is why the cooling issues are popping up - people are blocking the air intake, resulting in one card that is 30 degrees warmer than the other and throttling.

If you're using 2 aircooled cards, try to get a motherboard with 3 PCIE slots rather than two, so that you have some space between them. If you're using 3 or 4 cards, you may want to think about watercooling.

From this standpoint, 2x HD5970's are much, much preferable to trying to use 4x HD5870's.
 
sweetreddyd said:
My 3 5870s are a good deal faster than my two were. Scaling isn't perfect, but it also isn't that bad. And I play with vsync forced on, so I never see above 60, it's funny to see jealous people calling it a complete waste though.

2560x1600 is still a pretty tough resolution to push and maintain a solid 60fps in all situations. If you are after maximum maintained performance, there is nothing wrong with a triple or quad setup.

If you can afford 3 5870s or two 5970s, why not? Don't trust some jealous poorbies on the internet who want to lie and tell you 'omg they'll overheat and throttle down'

My three cards have stock cooling and have not clock throttled or overheated once even on automatic fan settings, I don't always leave them on auto, but I haven't had a compelling reason outside of curiosity to crank them higher.
Click to expand...


Yeah, they might be jealous, but they might be telling the truth and you might be trying to justify your purchase... Who's to say? Thankfully, we have some sources to help make our decisions.

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/HIS/Radeon_HD_5970_CrossFire/3.html

Battleforge was the only game that i saw with a significant gain. Other games showed a quad setup performing the same or worse then a dual gpu setup, while others showed a nice gain with a quad setup but it mattered not since the dual was already running at 100+ fps... And yes, i'm using examples at 2560x1600

Now maybe with Eyefinity the story may be different, but for 2560x1600 a dual 5970's in CF is indeed a waste of $650
 
sweetreddyd said:
My 3 5870s are a good deal faster than my two were. Scaling isn't perfect, but it also isn't that bad. And I play with vsync forced on, so I never see above 60, it's funny to see jealous people calling it a complete waste though.

2560x1600 is still a pretty tough resolution to push and maintain a solid 60fps in all situations. If you are after maximum maintained performance, there is nothing wrong with a triple or quad setup . . . If you can afford 3 5870s or two 5970s, why not? Don't trust some jealous poorbies on the internet who want to lie and tell you 'OMG, they'll overheat and throttle down.'
Click to expand...
It has been mentioned that 4 GPU's sometimes perform worse than 3. Worse. That is not a case of jealousy, or poverty, and a little bit of homework will show this has been the case in previous generations, also.
 
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If you're going to run Eyefinity at 5760x1200, you are going to need at least a 5970 or crossfired 5870s. My single 5870 can't do full blown eyecandy settings on the games I play while maintaining 60+ fps. But since you haven't bought your cards yet and price is no object right, go straight for the 5970.

This should help you decide on your future card.
 
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A little research like owning tri-sli 9800s, tri-sli 260s, then triple crossfire 5870s?

Tri-card setups do often compare favorably to thier quad setups, yes, in fact, I completely prefer them. Doesn't stop the fact that half the people in this thread are obviously posting out of jealousy, 'waste of money' when a sig shows a single card setup suggests nothing else.

Personally, I didn't buy quad 5970s because they have a slower stock clock, and I'd need to buy a bigger second rad to handle them, when I switch over to watercooling the setup in a couple months. But there is a ton of ignorance in this thread regarding tri or quad setups, from people who obviously have never owned one, and are assuming they know and understand limitations thereof that simply don't exist, because they read a forum thread, or saw some single bar benchmarks on the internet.

For people who want to game at a hard-locked 60fps at 2560, there is still a very compelling reason to own quad or triple gpus.

I run 3x 5870s, and run at most with 2x aa at any given time to prevent even the most occasional or random dip under 60fps.

Some of us very much know what we are after, and don't have any real budgetary concerns when it comes to hardware. And frankly, every game I play through from beginning to end at 2560, without ever dipping under 60fps justifies my purchase. I don't need someone or thier benchmarks on the internet to do it for me.
 
sweetreddyd said:
Doesn't stop the fact that half the people in this thread are obviously posting out of jealousy, 'waste of money' when a sig shows a single card setup suggests nothing else.
Click to expand...

Half the thread is a polite backlash to you throwing out the comment "jealous poorbies on the internet who want to lie". Dial the insults back a few notches and you'll get a lot more respect.

And even you are advising against 2x5970 or 4x5870, which is what the OP was interested in.
 
Its amusing to see how self-centered the guy is with comments like "poorbies"

Anyone who thinks people who don't want to spend $1300+ when it's not necessary are poor and jealous obviously has some personal issues to sort out. There are plenty of folks around here with enough buying power to build some ridiculously powerful rigs but elect not to do so.
 
evilsofa said:
Half the thread is a polite backlash to you throwing out the comment "jealous poorbies on the internet who want to lie". Dial the insults back a few notches and you'll get a lot more respect.

And even you are advising against 2x5970 or 4x5870, which is what the OP was interested in.
Click to expand...
+1. I truly could not have said it better.
 
Maybe attempt to answer the OPs question instead of trying to dictate how he spend his money based on your own scruples? Because when you try and dictate how people spend thier money to keep them from obtaining things you don't have, and make up false 'facts' to back up your opinions, it makes you look... wait for it... jealous.

This is pretty much like when people buy 975s and make 'check out this 975 OC!' and people bash them saying 'omgz u should have bought a 920, waste of money!'

The guy obviously posted with the intent to get the fastest money can currently buy. It's his business what he does with his money, just like its your business what you don't do with yours.

But it's real easy to see jealousy in your early posts. Real easy. The op was pretty plain, 'price doesn't matter', so 'waste of money' and your own spending habits have prescious little to do with the question posed, which setup is faster?

And if the OP isn't planning on heavy OC, it would probobly be a 4-card setup with 5870s, VS the lower stock clock 5970s.

Notice the answer to the quesiton isn't 'omg it's a waste of ur moneys'
 
TheQuestian Gawd, 7 Months

To someone who has been lurking here almost a decade, this is probobly more of a joke dude. At least I base my opinion of you on WHAT you post, not how long you've registered for any given forum.
 
When it comes down to it scaling is very game dependent and as such its really hard to say just how much benefit you'd get from over 2 GPUs without specific games.

Dirt 2, which before nVidia's Forceware 196.21 driver, didn't support even 2 way SLI out of the box before the new driver, shows scaling of 260% with three cards. From 42 to 112 AVG FPS, maximum settings at 1920x1200. Not bad.
 
sweetreddyd said:
At least I base my opinion of you on WHAT you post, not how long you've registered for any given forum.
Click to expand...
You, sir, are crazy. :D

Really, though, I only posted your tenure info because I hoped your overall lack of decency was due to a lack of familiarity with the forums. Guess not. That said, I'm really not sure what your beef is. We all agree that more than 3 GPU's will likely decrease the OP's performance, so I don't see what jealousy or wealth has to do with it. Are you recommending 4 GPU's? No. Is anyone else? No.

There you go, OP. Hopefully this weirdness will end soon.
 
I can certainly attest to the need of power ONLY in a large monitor/eyefinity situation...

And even THEN, only in some of the most DEMANDING games.

I am a FPS fanatic. Some racing games. I have a 920 w/a 5970 at stock NOW (having started the OC yet- wanted some benches before so I could compare.)

COD games, HL , NFS, it BLAZES, even in Eyeinfity with eye candy turned on. Heck, HAWX I need VSYNC becuase it's TOO fast! ( 5040x1050, I believe at the biggest resolution in Landscape. 3150 x 1680 portait setup).

Now, I am a Crysis fan as well...I can tell you Crysis still crushes me at those extreme resolutions (without some quality adjusting.) Also, Arma 2 is NOT kind at full detail at those resolutions.).

Now at 1680x1050 , one 22" , it tears you know what....just depends on what you are really playing and how much you want EVERYTHING maxed out on the eye-candy side.
 
AlvinMaker said:
Heck, HAWX I need VSYNC becuase it's TOO fast! .
Click to expand...

Hey let me turn on Vsync on street fighter 4, the opponent's moves are definitely too fast!

I don't see why people get all worked up here. Opinions matter, that's why we have forums. Some people value efficiency, while others willing to pay double the money for small fraction of performance gain. Just post your opinion and respect others. At the end of the day, OP will (hopefully) read your opinion and decide on his/her own.

My opinion is to read reviews. Most of the people here, myself included, do not qualify to give advice because they did not own 3 5870 and 5970 at the same time.
 
exe163 said:
Hey let me turn on Vsync on street fighter 4, the opponent's moves are definitely too fast!

I don't see why people get all worked up here. Opinions matter, that's why we have forums. Some people value efficiency, while others willing to pay double the money for small fraction of performance gain. Just post your opinion and respect others. At the end of the day, OP will (hopefully) read your opinion and decide on his/her own.

My opinion is to read reviews. Most of the people here, myself included, do not qualify to give advice because they did not own 3 5870 and 5970 at the same time.
Click to expand...

Well said, sir.

(on a sode note, since I have been deciding wether to buy another 5970 vs. a 5870/5850 combo, I did a COPIOUS amount of research. I did find, via some other "enthusiast" users who have tried all the aformentioned setups, is the "sweet spot" seems to be 5970+5870.- again, this is barring you are playing at 1920 or "Eyefinity" resolutions...Just my .02 :D )
 
WoW!!! OP here. So much arguing and accusations going around. I'm new and I hope there's not this much nonsense frequently. I have a bunch of other posts and they are really helpful so far so maybe my question got ppl worked up somehow.

Anyways, from what I can sort out among this delightful discussion, I think I need to decide between a 3-way 5870 v.s. a 2-way 5970. I will be using an eyefinity setup with the same 24" monitor for each monitor. I have not picked out a monitor yet but I think it'll end up being 24"'s.

All I really want is an answer that will ensure full graphics for the latest games in eyefinity mode. And if both would work, then the most future proof one. If the new nVidia cards prove to beat Radeon cards, then I'll sell my cards for that setup as long as they support multi-monitors too. From the way they are hyping it, they will either kill Radeons putting them behind a few months if not longer for a competitive Radeon, or there will be little to no advantage over the top current Radeon cards. In that case, I will want whichever way I go with my Radeons to go as far into the future as possible. Now I know both are most likely future proof but I don't know if one is more than the other.

I hope that clears it up.


_____________________________________


Well, I just not did more research and came to post and forgot to post the previous message so I will just add it here.

I took a look at techPowerUp's HIS Radeon HD 5970 CrossFire review and looked at every page. I do have some questions about their cons though. Here's something they said:
Fails several game tests at 2560x1600
Not useful for resolutions lower than 2560x1600
Three of our benchmarks failed to run at 2560x1600

Is this driver related and could be resolved in future driver updates? And is it something that would most likely be addressed or probably not?

They also say "No support for CUDA / PhysX". As for PhysX, is it still do-able in a 5970 CrossFire setup if I add a PhysX card or vid card with PhysX? And what is Cuda? I tried looking and it seems an nVidia tech but I don't understand why it's important and why it was a con.

_____________________________________


Heh, got caught up in a big 3-way 5870 setup discussion. Forgot to hit the Submit button again. Now I have all the reviews that I need. 3-way 5870 or 2x 5970? Seems like there was probs with 4-way or whatever so he did 3-way.

That's fine though because I just remembered that I can't 4-way anyways because I want my sound card, therefore I would have to choose between a 3-way 5870 or 2x 5970. I looked at reviews and benchmarks and other ppls forum posts and I think I want the 2x 5970's. I think, yes, there is a difference in FPS however it's marginal. I'm used to 25-60+ FPS in games. I don't think I will notice a game played at 175 FPS and 195 FPS. As long as I can get max detail and stay above,. say, 60 FPS in the absolute most intense moment of each game, then I think I will be happy. And don't forget, I'll be playing on 3 monitors.

I guess what it comes down to is, basically, either choice will work for now. It'd be more of a decision if I were only interested in benchmarking and getting fastest of fast scores in tests and stuff. I think I am leaning toward 2x 5970's as they will give me a better resellabitity when I decide to upgrade to something else. Is my line of thinking accurate or am I not considering something?

I would also think that 2 cards is easier to cool than 3 cards. Here's a question. Say I have a 7 PCI-e mobo. Slot 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7. Can I put a card in 1-2, put a slot vid card cooler in 3, card #2 in 4-5, vid card cooler in 6, and sound card in 7? I guess my question is basically, does it matter where you put a vid card and if you do CFX, can you bridge the two cards skipping a slot? Will the connector reach? If not, then I should be able to provide good enough cooling.

Alright, I am going to do more research. I will actually submit this time. Heh.

Thanx for the help thus far and lets try to keep the weirdness to a minimum. I'm in this for the updated learning experience and the prize (ultimate gaming again) after my studies are complete because I prolly won't be hanging around the internet much anymore with my gaming rig. It'll be nice to have a kickass gaming rig again.

THANX :)

P.S.: Tri-Fire 5870 eyefinity project I looked at. I know the guy overclocked and used a watercooling setup so I had to try and mentally adjust what it might be like compared to 5970 CrossFire review which did not use eyefinity setup. Basically, since I'm not in it for benchmarking and scores, I think the 5970 CrossFire will be more useful in an eyefinity setup from cooling, resellability, and future proofness until the next wave of super badassness cards roll out.

P.P.S.:

AlvinMaker said:
I did find, via some other "enthusiast" users who have tried all the aformentioned setups, is the "sweet spot" seems to be 5970+5870.
Click to expand...

Can you provide me with a link to where they came up with the 5970+5870 solution? That would seem like an interesting read.
 
heatlesssun said:
A single 5870 isn't enough power to consistently max out games, just look at the [H] Eyefinity review. But it is enough to get solid performance and high settings if not maxed out.
Click to expand...

True. But what I meant is that it's still very, very playable. You trade some quality settings for more immersion. Then there is the 5970, but my experiences with SLI/CF scaling (currently own a GTX295) leaves much to be desired (wish I bought a GTX285 instead).

I can't remember where I read it, but there was a review where they tested 2X 4870X2 CrossFire and it showed some of the scaling issues is due to the system being CPU limited.
 
gerardfraser said:
Hi, there. I run a 5970 + 5850 and can tell you it's fast. Beats quad-fire benches in a lot of games, just because quad drivers are not the best . . . I also compare my benches against 3 5870's and [they] are the same or better. Here are some benches I did if you want to check them out.

Tri-fire Benchmarks
Click to expand...

You might already know this, but just for clarity's sake, a 5970 is a dual-GPU card, so if you CrossFire them, you will be dealing with four GPU's. Four seems to be the magic number when it comes to scaling and driver issues (i.e. performance drops), which is why most super-high-end setups still stop at three (tri-fire 285's, tri-fire 4870's). I think your absolute fastest setup will probably be 3 standalone 5870's, or a 5970 + 5870 setup. Judging by the post above, it seems a 5970 + 5850 setup would not be far behind.

Either way, the information is there. Do with it what you will. Good luck!
 
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I also have 3 5870s with my Dell 30 inch monitor. Bought two in Sept. because it looked like it would be a while before Fermi came out and I love to try new hardware. Had two GTX 280s before that. Anyway I liked the two 5870s so picked up a third to see if it made a difference. It did scale better then I thought(3d Vantage went from 24592 2 5870s to 32211 for 3 5870s) and have not had any issues with heat yet. I leave the fans on auto and they scale up to 40% when playing Batman. Whether they are worth the extra money or not is kind of subjective and how much extra money you can afford to spend. I also picked my up for $379.00 each because it was back in Sept. I can't wait to see how Fermi does but it will have to be really worth the extra money I think they will cost over the 5870's.
 
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