I've got 2 Radeon 4870X2 video cards in CrossfireX config and they've served me well, particularly so since I got one of them for free. Wondering if it's worth upgrading to a single GTX 580 or 6970 whenever it gets released? I'm a little tired of the noise and power consumption with both of them, not to mention the heat they generate. Or should I upgrade the CPU/mobo combo (Q6600@3.2GHz) first?
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2x 4870X2 worth upgrading?
- Thread starter Armpit
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Noise and power consumption on these cards is pretty insane and coming from someone who has the same setup I can easily see how that would be a cause for upgrade. I do all of my gaming with headphones that isolate well so it's not really a big deal for me. Sometimes though if i'm just watching a movie or something I'll power down the main rig, hit the button on the KVM, and just watch it on my server instead.
Going based on the numbers we've seen so far for the GTX580 I don't believe it would be an upgrade over 2x 4870x2 in terms of performance unless you were talking about a game that had unusually bad crossfire support. Jury is still out on the 6970.
Really you are the only one who can make the decision regarding what is acceptable power consumption, heat output, noise, etc. I wouldn't do the upgrade for performance reasons though.
Going based on the numbers we've seen so far for the GTX580 I don't believe it would be an upgrade over 2x 4870x2 in terms of performance unless you were talking about a game that had unusually bad crossfire support. Jury is still out on the 6970.
Really you are the only one who can make the decision regarding what is acceptable power consumption, heat output, noise, etc. I wouldn't do the upgrade for performance reasons though.
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I am all about replacing my 2 X2's for a single GPU solution. As you've stated, they've served us well, and do punch out the FPS. I still stand by my current observation that the 5850's that my GF has in her rig, are just NICER to watch than my quad 4870s.
I've done the work backing the drivers to 10.5, using all the latest Crossfire profiles, using RadeonPro to force a number of settings...on and on...and in the end, while my GF doesnt get the same numbers I do, its just plain more fun to watch the games we play on her setup. Having duplicate hardware pretty much eliminates the performance variables.
FFXIV is our current game of choice. Aside from the gameplay issues, we both suffer from the same graphical anomolies. With Crossfire turned on, we both see a 1 inch thick "Bar" across the screen that is similar to screen tearing when moving. Disable Crossfire, and it goes away, but there is a noticable hit in performance as we like to have the eye candy cranked up. My new issue is heat. My X2's hit 109c...bleh. I thought it might be a faulty card, but I backed my setup to 1 card. Same issue. Swapped cards. Same issue. Since I have a Sapphire and a VisionTek, its hard to blame the same vendor.
Ultimately its my reason to finally drop the X2's and look for a single GPU solution - only because my gaming needs seem to require it. Even if FFXIV or ATI released support for crossfire to smooth the game out...this just becomes in inefficient setup given the choices we have today.
I am SO tempted by the new Nvidia card - only because FFXIV sports the "Meant to be played" logo...I'm wondering if I should bother with the 69xx.
I've done the work backing the drivers to 10.5, using all the latest Crossfire profiles, using RadeonPro to force a number of settings...on and on...and in the end, while my GF doesnt get the same numbers I do, its just plain more fun to watch the games we play on her setup. Having duplicate hardware pretty much eliminates the performance variables.
FFXIV is our current game of choice. Aside from the gameplay issues, we both suffer from the same graphical anomolies. With Crossfire turned on, we both see a 1 inch thick "Bar" across the screen that is similar to screen tearing when moving. Disable Crossfire, and it goes away, but there is a noticable hit in performance as we like to have the eye candy cranked up. My new issue is heat. My X2's hit 109c...bleh. I thought it might be a faulty card, but I backed my setup to 1 card. Same issue. Swapped cards. Same issue. Since I have a Sapphire and a VisionTek, its hard to blame the same vendor.
Ultimately its my reason to finally drop the X2's and look for a single GPU solution - only because my gaming needs seem to require it. Even if FFXIV or ATI released support for crossfire to smooth the game out...this just becomes in inefficient setup given the choices we have today.
I am SO tempted by the new Nvidia card - only because FFXIV sports the "Meant to be played" logo...I'm wondering if I should bother with the 69xx.
That's_Corporate
[H]ard|Gawd
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I have the same kind of setup as you it seems, except I only have one 4870x2.
Now, I've heard (not yet tested) that the X58 setup (maybe a 920 with some triple channel ram) absolutely LOVES crossfire. I'm not completely sure, but by switching to a 16x/16x X58 motherboard setup solely, you might see some big gains in scaling.
If anything, it's scaling that's holding those quadfire setups back from what I read.
That's what I'd do anyways.
Now, I've heard (not yet tested) that the X58 setup (maybe a 920 with some triple channel ram) absolutely LOVES crossfire. I'm not completely sure, but by switching to a 16x/16x X58 motherboard setup solely, you might see some big gains in scaling.
If anything, it's scaling that's holding those quadfire setups back from what I read.
That's what I'd do anyways.
I have the same issue with the bar in FFXIV, it's good to know it my VC, not really
.I have one 4870x2 and just picked up a Superclocked GTX 580. Should be here next week. I've had the itch to upgrade for a while and I am interested in seeing what difference a single GPU and NVidia drivers make.
I don't think the GTX 580 or upcoming 6970 will compare to a 2 x 4870x2 in performance. Based on AMD's slides it looks like the 6970 will slide in under the 5970 which I also believe doesn't provide the performance of your current setup. The only thing that might make a difference for your setup is if you like the new morphological AA from AMD. Then, I could see a 6970 with Morph AA giving you comparable fps vs your current config with 4x/8x regular AA.
As for updating the CPU, I went from an oc'd Q6600 to an oc'd i7 920 and saw about a 15% jump in fps in TF2, which is what I play most of the time. I don't know if you would see as much of a jump in other games. My understanding is that Valve games tend to be CPU intensive.
I don't think the GTX 580 or upcoming 6970 will compare to a 2 x 4870x2 in performance. Based on AMD's slides it looks like the 6970 will slide in under the 5970 which I also believe doesn't provide the performance of your current setup. The only thing that might make a difference for your setup is if you like the new morphological AA from AMD. Then, I could see a 6970 with Morph AA giving you comparable fps vs your current config with 4x/8x regular AA.
As for updating the CPU, I went from an oc'd Q6600 to an oc'd i7 920 and saw about a 15% jump in fps in TF2, which is what I play most of the time. I don't know if you would see as much of a jump in other games. My understanding is that Valve games tend to be CPU intensive.
i love my 2 x2 setup, @ 2560x1440 res, full settings, 4xAA 16xAF, i pull 70-110+ FPS in bad company 2. it will dip to the 50s in a very smoke intensive area or if a shit ton of explosions are going off, but never gets unplayable. aside from the heat and noise they are great cards. i play with noise canceling headphones so i dont notice the noise, but man do they get hot after a couple hrs. the cards scream like banshees once i take the headphones off
defaultluser
[H]F Junkie
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Yeah, if you want a performance upgrade, you won't find one. But if you want to do this purely for power/noise reasons (and don't mind a performance hit), either go GTX 580 now or wait for the 6970.
Hell yeah, I'm not leaving my 4870x2 just yet!
1920x1200 here and mine purrs
From the posts here, and my personal experiences, it appears that there are very GOOD applications of the 4870x2 to be used, and as shown, even better gains with Quadfire. At the same time, it appears there are applications where the X2 just does not perform, and Quadfire doesn' t help either.
My largest curiosity is the 580, and how it compares to the X2's in actual gameplay with FFXIV. So, should anyone have that comparison available, I'm all ears (eyes?) to see how it pans out.
Lastly, I'd REALLY love to have an Eyefinity setup, which obviously requires newer hardware to accomplish, and thus would be my final reason to give up my Dual X2's
So, to sum it up - the reasons to upgrade from X2 would be
1. Heat
2. Noise
3. Specfic Game Library Compatibility
4. Features (DX10/11 for example)
5. Eyefinity
Any others anyone can think of to help us on the fence with justification?
My largest curiosity is the 580, and how it compares to the X2's in actual gameplay with FFXIV. So, should anyone have that comparison available, I'm all ears (eyes?) to see how it pans out.
Lastly, I'd REALLY love to have an Eyefinity setup, which obviously requires newer hardware to accomplish, and thus would be my final reason to give up my Dual X2's
So, to sum it up - the reasons to upgrade from X2 would be
1. Heat
2. Noise
3. Specfic Game Library Compatibility
4. Features (DX10/11 for example)
5. Eyefinity
Any others anyone can think of to help us on the fence with justification?
1.Do you mean to the room or from the card, because 90C isn't hurting the card.From the posts here, and my personal experiences, it appears that there are very GOOD applications of the 4870x2 to be used, and as shown, even better gains with Quadfire. At the same time, it appears there are applications where the X2 just does not perform, and Quadfire doesn' t help either.
My largest curiosity is the 580, and how it compares to the X2's in actual gameplay with FFXIV. So, should anyone have that comparison available, I'm all ears (eyes?) to see how it pans out.
Lastly, I'd REALLY love to have an Eyefinity setup, which obviously requires newer hardware to accomplish, and thus would be my final reason to give up my Dual X2's
So, to sum it up - the reasons to upgrade from X2 would be
1. Heat
2. Noise
3. Specfic Game Library Compatibility
4. Features (DX10/11 for example)
5. Eyefinity
Any others anyone can think of to help us on the fence with justification?
2.Mine isn't loud at all, just leave the fan on auto
3.I never had issues running anything, but I don't play FFXIV so that might be why
4.I have so many pre DX11 games to play that this doesn't bother me right now
5.Eyefinity will require a huge performance increase as the 4870x2 is on par with ATI's current best single core if not slightly faster, so you'll probably need a 5970 to consider that setup.
Why not get a 480 or 5970?? They offer a far better price/performance, the 580 is too expensive for what it offers, heck the 5970 is outright stronger while still being cheaper.
Yeah this is the 4870x2's one flaw, if only it was as efficient as the 295 single pcb, that card pulled less and could perform better than a single 480 while being more efficient (and still being able to overclock)
I hit 109c with FFXIV, so the fan is ALWAYS running full, even on Auto.
My other games hang out 88c to 90c. FFXIV just starts to FREAK on me when we're in woodland areas with weather happening.
Have you blown it out lately, mine was cleaned about a month ago and it hits 90C max (which is plenty safe)
even the temps you're at aren't damaging the card.
I'd get some compressed air and blow the dust out or get some better case venilation (or run open)
I know you run two cards but I'm sure you could get the temps down some. Even at 90C the auto fan doesn't get annoying at all, barely tell it's on
Have you read HardOCPs latest article on the front page. It's an interesting discussion of the weakness of an AMD 2 GPU card. Basically, we are hitting a wall with too little memory on newer games. I know it's about the 5970 but it should directly apply to our 4870x2's.
The 4870x2 gpus are probably more of the bottleneck than their memory. The 5970 IS probably limited however
I maintain my cards every couple of months if they need it or not. Most recently was in the last month as I blew out the PSU on my main gaming rig, so I'm back to my old Core2Duo with only 1 x2.
As I mentioned earlier, I've tried swapping cards, and it does the same thing with either. I have 3 chassis fans blowing directly on it and have ensured no cables get in the way just to keep it in a playable temperature.
I have, and I'm very interested. I have to agree that dual GPU gaming is a very sensitive subject. (I had much more success with Xfire and my x1600's and my x2600s) I've found that while my x2 can slam the FPS charts, its not near as pretty as my GF's 5850. Given the driver issues (having to back edit to 10.5 in the past), and using RadeonPro to force AFR, makes going to a dual GPU upgrade a tough choice. Dual X2's only exists because she was tired of the Xfire headaches and wanted a single GPU solution, thus the 5850. Yes, she has them Xfire'd again, but the Xfire performance issues are back.
Only because I want Eyefinity have I held off on buying a 580 today.
Well, I got an EVGA GTX 580 Superclocked today to see how it performs, here're my results compared to 2x 4870X2s (1st number 2x4870X2 CF, 2nd GT 580) at 2560x1440 on a Q6600@3.2GHz, 6GB RAM, X38 mobo:
FarCry2: 65.2 - 66.7
Metro 2033 4xMSAA: 16.81 - 23.085 (DX10)
Metro 2033 AAA: 20.2 - 27.8 (DX10)
Metro 2033 AAA DX11 (GTX 580 only): 28
CoH: 57.5 - 59.1
Rise of Flight: 40.7 - 57.6
F1 2010: 54.5 - 59.9 (DX10)
F1 2010 DX11 (GTX 580): 37.7
Was it worth it in the end from a performance standpoint? Don't think so (although this is what I largely expected), but I'll sleep on it before deciding whether to keep it or not. The card is A LOT quieter than my 2x 4870X2 and the PSU doesn't cry anymore when games are being played.
FarCry2: 65.2 - 66.7
Metro 2033 4xMSAA: 16.81 - 23.085 (DX10)
Metro 2033 AAA: 20.2 - 27.8 (DX10)
Metro 2033 AAA DX11 (GTX 580 only): 28
CoH: 57.5 - 59.1
Rise of Flight: 40.7 - 57.6
F1 2010: 54.5 - 59.9 (DX10)
F1 2010 DX11 (GTX 580): 37.7
Was it worth it in the end from a performance standpoint? Don't think so (although this is what I largely expected), but I'll sleep on it before deciding whether to keep it or not. The card is A LOT quieter than my 2x 4870X2 and the PSU doesn't cry anymore when games are being played.
The only plus would be that it's a single gpu....but dude why didn't you get a 5970!! They can be found cheaper and they're better
thanks for the info, great to see this kinda of stuff. hopefully something in the 6900 series will be worthy enough to replace the CFX x2's.
Agreed - thanks for taking the time to test.
I think its agreed upon that the X2's can pump out FPS's, but as the recent article showed, multi GPU can give off a "less smooth" feel when gaming.
Did you find that your games were smoother to play in each of your games vs the dual X2s?
Which configuration do you find easier on the eyes to watch?
I think its agreed upon that the X2's can pump out FPS's, but as the recent article showed, multi GPU can give off a "less smooth" feel when gaming.
Did you find that your games were smoother to play in each of your games vs the dual X2s?
Which configuration do you find easier on the eyes to watch?
Visually, there's little difference that I can perceive. In terms of overall smoothness, I can only say, with any certainty, about F1 2010. The GTX 580 is a lot smoother even in DX11 mode. For example, in Shanghai there were a couple of turns where the CF 4870X2s would stutter and drop below 30fps, but a single GTX 580 is smooth thru these. Rise of Flight also feels smoother, but it's hard to say. Starcraft 2 definitely feels faster.
I have to say, the quietness of the setup may really sell me though and not the performance. Plus the heat generated is much less at least at idle. Whereas the 4870X2s would idle at 70-75C, the GTX 580 idles at 40C. Peak temps are also lower, 80C for GTX 580, and 85-90C for the 4870X2s.
One thing to note is that StarCraft 2 runs much better on the GTX 580. I don't think it's anything wrong with the 4870X2s, I think ATI just hasn't gotten their Crossfire profiles working properly for this game. 4xAA is no problem with the GTX 580, whereas it was unplayable on 2x 4870X2s.
Well yeah, quad anything has a horrible return of investment!
I still say the 5970 woulda been better
Installed my new EVGA Superclocked GTX580 last night. It replaced my single tri-fan 4870x2 (ie the quiet 4870x2). The noise difference is phenomenal. The 4870x2 would crank up at start up, during any game play and sometimes just stay at full fan speed for no apparent reason.
I only played a little TF2 and Mass Effect 2 (2560x1600) last night and the 580 GTX never broke a sweat or at least I never heard the fan. ME2 ran great but I had some low fps spikes in TF2. Since the fan never cranked up, I think it's just an optimization problem with TF2. Each update seems to further bog down the game.
I only played a little TF2 and Mass Effect 2 (2560x1600) last night and the 580 GTX never broke a sweat or at least I never heard the fan. ME2 ran great but I had some low fps spikes in TF2. Since the fan never cranked up, I think it's just an optimization problem with TF2. Each update seems to further bog down the game.
Which card had spikes in TF2??
I have the reference 4870x2 and ME2 doesn't make my fan get loud, were you manual or auto?? maybe you should have adjusted your fan profile
Both cards. All of the additions Valve has made to TF2 really take their toll on a system. Especially if you try to play at 2560x1600. My understanding is that the issue is tied more to the CPU than GPU and based on the fact that the GTX580 fan doesn't ramp up while playing TF2, I would guess that it is a CPU issue. I typically play on a 32 man server (larger than stock TF2 settings which I believe is a max of 24 players) and find the worst fps drops happen on the newer maps.
As for fan speed, I just let the 4870x2 do its own thing. It generally ramped the fans up when I started the game and would drop them shortly after I quit the game. Idling while in 2d it was noticeable but it seemed to ramp up the fans every time a game started.