2700/2700X or Intel i7?

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pavel

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There isn't a place to debate an AM4 or CL cpu?

I guess since I am on the fence, I will ask what AMD users or those who are contemplating an AM4 cpu think.

If the chips were the same price, which would you pick out of:
R7 2700X or i7-8700k? Will the upcoming AMD processors be compatible with the current AM4 socket out now?

I don't have a preference... I was mostly trying to compare power consumption and temperatures and they seem very close. Maybe the power consumption for the Ryzen chip is higher but the temps are a bit lower than the Intel (although, you can delid the Intel chip, right?).

I figure most games will favour the CL chip but the AMD cpu is sufficient for me regarding games. I don't have a problem if the FPS are a bit lower in some games.

The AMD chip is often higher in performance because of the extra cores? It does well in productivity tasks/apps.

I am undecided. I also like the Intel chip for other reasons but am not sure which to pick.
 
pavel said:
Will the upcoming AMD processors be compatible with the current AM4 socket out now?
Click to expand...

Yes, current rumors is that zen2 will bring a 12 or maybe even 16 core CPU to AM4 socket.

You could also consider 2600, which is much cheaper and has as many cores as 8700K, the only downside is lower single core performance, which is irrelevant outside of some very specific tasks.

I think is hard to go wrong with either one, both will be sufficient for years to come for most users.
 
It depends on your needs. For gaming they are very close, all the way up to resolutions where the GPU becomes the bottleneck.
 
i've recently dumped my skylake build for a ryzen 2600x, but in my research for an acceptable am4 board i'm finding that a lot of manufacturers are playing fast and loose with the voltage regulation design. unless i'm comfortable spending $200 on a board, it makes me question if i have an actual upgrade path to the higher core count cpus.
 
yeah i agree with viivo, it all depends on what you plan to use the system for.. if it's purely gaming or lightly threaded applications i'd say go with intel for the higher clock speed, if you need the thread count then AMD is a better option at the same price points.. if you don't need 16 threads then for the price the 2600/2600x are both damn good processors. that being said the platform cost for AMD is pretty low and still has another generation of processors being released on AM4.
 
I've had both the 8700k and the 2700x and there isn't a lot of noticeable difference between the two. If anything, the 2700x seems a little more responsive under higher workloads likely due to the extra cores, but you really can't go wrong with either of them.
 
What about memory, though? Is there an improvement with achieving specified speeds with memory? If it's not Samsung B-die, it was difficult to get the top speed even after going into the BIOS. Apparently, this might have been improved with X470 motherboards but it's still not certain.

Then, there is the issue with brand of motherboards. I find it all confusing. One advantage with CL or Z370 motherboards is that this memory issue doesn't seem to exist. In fact, a lot of memory is certified to work with Z170+ motherboards. Also, you still have to go into the BIOS to increase (i.e. overclock) the speed of the memory but it doesn't matter which chipset of the stick is. You can adjust the voltage or timings but you don't have to be concerned whether it's Samsung or a certain chipset die.
 
pavel said:
What about memory, though? Is there an improvement with achieving specified speeds with memory? If it's not Samsung B-die, it was difficult to get the top speed even after going into the BIOS. Apparently, this might have been improved with X470 motherboards but it's still not certain.

Then, there is the issue with brand of motherboards. I find it all confusing. One advantage with CL or Z370 motherboards is that this memory issue doesn't seem to exist. In fact, a lot of memory is certified to work with Z170+ motherboards. Also, you still have to go into the BIOS to increase (i.e. overclock) the speed of the memory but it doesn't matter which chipset of the stick is. You can adjust the voltage or timings but you don't have to be concerned whether it's Samsung or a certain chipset die.
Click to expand...

Running at rated speed hasn't been a big concern since around 6 months after the initial ryzen launch. My hynix 3000mhz cl15 ram has been running at that speed since then, on both a b350 board and an x370 board, with both an r7 1700 and my current 2700x. Overclocking is a little different, but running rated speeds shouldn't be an issue unless you're trying to go over 3200mhz, and even then the 2xxx chips can usually do 3466.

I have 2 ryzen systems running (3 counting my 2700u laptop), one a higher end vr gaming/streaming system and the other a super small form factor portable setup to do the same, though sacrificing some performance for the sake of portability and budget. Both have been good, though the portable one had a bad board initially. I think that's probably the bigger gotcha, picking the right motherboard for what you want to do. I was going budget so took a gamble on an Amazon warehouse deal low end asrock b350 matx board that didn't pan out as it failed during a bios update.

I also have a couple of intel systems at work and honestly they're also good. I felt more cores was going to be more important going forward so went amd and it largely looks to be the correct decision.

Regarding the motherboards, b350 (or 450, there's no big difference) if you're not overclocking or running a ton of peripherals, x370/470 if you are. Both of mine are currently x370 but only because I got an x370 mitx board for the same price b350s were going for. I still have my prime b350m-a (wouldn't fit in my sff case, unfortunately), might do a 2400g build for the kids.
 
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Hmmm....maybe I should invest in 2 builds! Go Ryzen and CL! LOL! Seriously, thanks big time for your reply! I was really curious about whether the hynix chip issue was still a problem or not. I already bought Corsair RAM and it turned out to be ones with the hynix chip. It's 3200MHz of two 8gb sticks. I guess you're not supposed to buy components/parts individually but I bought it on an impulse (aka sale) before DDR4 memory shot up in price (the rumours were accurate/correct).

I think it was mentioned on here or somewhere that it's not wise for two reasons: 1) RMA will be more difficult and 2) return date will be gone - you won't find out if you have a faulty part until the entire build is complete and put together.

Anyway, it's good to hear about your experience with the Ryzen build and hynix memory.

I was wondering about b350 vs x470 motherboards and was wondering if it's worth it to go with a X470 mobo for the extra 'features' - mainly the Intel LAN and Realtek ALC 1220 audio chipset. Some X470s have USB 3.1 Type C, Gen 2 and a select few include wifi. I thought some of those 'features' avoid needing to buy separate expansion cards/adapters later on if you decide to upgrade/obtain those features.

I don't plan on overclocking, at least at first. Perhaps, when the system becomes 'old' or outdated, when one is trying ot get the most out of it, 'might try overclocking. But, initially, I don't see the need. I think I might want an AIO cooler, however. I don't like reviews that compare based on whether there's a cooler or a good cooler. :) I figure that AMD's coolers aren't that great, aftermarket ones are always worth it for the higher cost, higher performance processors. Intel doesn't even include one but that isn't a negative to me. Yes, maybe, they are being cheap but I think an aftermarket cooler will keep the chip cooler regardless of which heat sink AMD or Intel provides. The added cost is a necessity, imho, and there are some that are cheap if you want to keep the price down as much as possible.

I was thinking about a SFF ITX system for a while but I am not sure whether the 32GB limit of RAM is okay for me or not. Also, I bought 16gb of 2 sticks so I would have to sell it if I ever want to get to the 32GB limit. Or move it to a new/2nd computer. :)
 
If I were buying today It would be 2600 or 2600X bc you can upgrade to the Zen 2 7nm next year on same platform and sell your Ryzen for most of the cost.
 
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pavel said:
Hmmm....maybe I should invest in 2 builds! Go Ryzen and CL! LOL! Seriously, thanks big time for your reply! I was really curious about whether the hynix chip issue was still a problem or not. I already bought Corsair RAM and it turned out to be ones with the hynix chip. It's 3200MHz of two 8gb sticks. I guess you're not supposed to buy components/parts individually but I bought it on an impulse (aka sale) before DDR4 memory shot up in price (the rumours were accurate/correct).

I think it was mentioned on here or somewhere that it's not wise for two reasons: 1) RMA will be more difficult and 2) return date will be gone - you won't find out if you have a faulty part until the entire build is complete and put together.

Anyway, it's good to hear about your experience with the Ryzen build and hynix memory.

I was wondering about b350 vs x470 motherboards and was wondering if it's worth it to go with a X470 mobo for the extra 'features' - mainly the Intel LAN and Realtek ALC 1220 audio chipset. Some X470s have USB 3.1 Type C, Gen 2 and a select few include wifi. I thought some of those 'features' avoid needing to buy separate expansion cards/adapters later on if you decide to upgrade/obtain those features.

I don't plan on overclocking, at least at first. Perhaps, when the system becomes 'old' or outdated, when one is trying ot get the most out of it, 'might try overclocking. But, initially, I don't see the need. I think I might want an AIO cooler, however. I don't like reviews that compare based on whether there's a cooler or a good cooler. :) I figure that AMD's coolers aren't that great, aftermarket ones are always worth it for the higher cost, higher performance processors. Intel doesn't even include one but that isn't a negative to me. Yes, maybe, they are being cheap but I think an aftermarket cooler will keep the chip cooler regardless of which heat sink AMD or Intel provides. The added cost is a necessity, imho, and there are some that are cheap if you want to keep the price down as much as possible.

I was thinking about a SFF ITX system for a while but I am not sure whether the 32GB limit of RAM is okay for me or not. Also, I bought 16gb of 2 sticks so I would have to sell it if I ever want to get to the 32GB limit. Or move it to a new/2nd computer. :)
Click to expand...

i use hynix ram, yeah sure it's locked to 2933 but honestly can't tell the difference besides the fact that i saved 100 dollars going with these vs known samsung B model ram for an extra 200mhz..
 
Dougie said:
the only downside is lower single core performance, which is irrelevant outside of some very specific tasks.
Click to expand...
WHAT are you smoking? most things are directly affected by single core performance. There aren't that many things outside of gaming and video encoding that can use all the threads properly to make the Ryzen so great. I have a lot of terrible things to say about intel right now but they're still what I buy most of the time. Mobile specifically its a no brainer.
 
mkrohn said:
WHAT are you smoking? most things are directly affected by single core performance. There aren't that many things outside of gaming and video encoding that can use all the threads properly to make the Ryzen so great. I have a lot of terrible things to say about intel right now but they're still what I buy most of the time. Mobile specifically its a no brainer.
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Even then the perf difference in those tasks isnt so huge as to be a problem.
 
mkrohn said:
WHAT are you smoking? most things are directly affected by single core performance. There aren't that many things outside of gaming and video encoding that can use all the threads properly to make the Ryzen so great. I have a lot of terrible things to say about intel right now but they're still what I buy most of the time. Mobile specifically its a no brainer.
Click to expand...

Any CPU released in the last 5 years has enough single core performance, single digit advantage that Intel currently holds is irrelevant in real world.
 
ChronoDetector said:
Did people really think this CPU was cheap? If Intel were to release a 32 core CPU it would most likely cost twice the price of this.

For once, it seems like AMD actually beat Intel to the punch when it comes to releasing a flagship HEDT CPU while Intel has no response as of yet apart from that 28 core CPU which isn't coming out next year.
Click to expand...

wrong thread?
 
Dougie said:
Any CPU released in the last 5 years has enough single core performance, single digit advantage that Intel currently holds is irrelevant in real world.
Click to expand...
no such thing as enough. BUT to counter your statement; Until Ryzen nothing AMD produced had even slightly respectable single core performance. Intel U series until the 8th gen was a dog too. don't forgot the < I3 lineup even on desktop. 5 years? nope... If you mean the highest end I7's like the 3770k and up sure. AMD is in position for carnage right now. They have a great opening if they can tweak single core more than intel and close the gap a bit more. Places like mobile it begins to matter more since core count reduces and clock speed does too. We have entered a time when laptops really can replace desktops. AMD finally winning on the desktop side is not enough.
 
pavel said:
Hmmm....maybe I should invest in 2 builds! Go Ryzen and CL! LOL! Seriously, thanks big time for your reply! I was really curious about whether the hynix chip issue was still a problem or not. I already bought Corsair RAM and it turned out to be ones with the hynix chip. It's 3200MHz of two 8gb sticks. I guess you're not supposed to buy components/parts individually but I bought it on an impulse (aka sale) before DDR4 memory shot up in price (the rumours were accurate/correct).

I think it was mentioned on here or somewhere that it's not wise for two reasons: 1) RMA will be more difficult and 2) return date will be gone - you won't find out if you have a faulty part until the entire build is complete and put together.

Anyway, it's good to hear about your experience with the Ryzen build and hynix memory.

I was wondering about b350 vs x470 motherboards and was wondering if it's worth it to go with a X470 mobo for the extra 'features' - mainly the Intel LAN and Realtek ALC 1220 audio chipset. Some X470s have USB 3.1 Type C, Gen 2 and a select few include wifi. I thought some of those 'features' avoid needing to buy separate expansion cards/adapters later on if you decide to upgrade/obtain those features.

I don't plan on overclocking, at least at first. Perhaps, when the system becomes 'old' or outdated, when one is trying ot get the most out of it, 'might try overclocking. But, initially, I don't see the need. I think I might want an AIO cooler, however. I don't like reviews that compare based on whether there's a cooler or a good cooler. :) I figure that AMD's coolers aren't that great, aftermarket ones are always worth it for the higher cost, higher performance processors. Intel doesn't even include one but that isn't a negative to me. Yes, maybe, they are being cheap but I think an aftermarket cooler will keep the chip cooler regardless of which heat sink AMD or Intel provides. The added cost is a necessity, imho, and there are some that are cheap if you want to keep the price down as much as possible.

I was thinking about a SFF ITX system for a while but I am not sure whether the 32GB limit of RAM is okay for me or not. Also, I bought 16gb of 2 sticks so I would have to sell it if I ever want to get to the 32GB limit. Or move it to a new/2nd computer. :)
Click to expand...


If you'll use those extra features, go for it. I upgraded from my prime b350m-a to a crosshair vi thinking I'd use the b350 in my sff build (which turned out not to fit in my sff case) and it got me almost nothing - an extra 66mhz on the ram due to an available 3000mhz setting vs 2933 on the b350. Yeah, I can upgrade more in the future but then I could just buy a new board when that time comes that has even more features for the money. Not really worth the extra $100.

The stock cooler actually works well, if a little loud, but with water and an x370/x470, you can enable precision boost overdrive for some automated overclocking to get slightly higher clocks. If you want every ounce of performance that's the way to go, but in the end you'll spend almost double what a b350+wraith costs for 150-200mhz. I'm half way there so might go for an AIO setup to really get everything out of it (and hopefully be ready for a 16 core 3xxx system).
 
Dougie said:
Any CPU released in the last 5 years has enough single core performance, single digit advantage that Intel currently holds is irrelevant in real world.
Click to expand...

When you're rendering 410 video clips (just a recent work unit I had) and you can save 2 minutes on each video clip, I'd say clock speed has significant advantages 'in the real world'. With that said, if I were to build a new video rendering box, I'd go Ryzen (well, Threadripper) over Intel. The latest Threadrippers are close enough in IPC and the extra cores are extremely advantageous for my specific rendering setup (custom bash scripts calling ffmpeg). But if you're doing an exclusive Adobe workflow you're limited in performance with extra cores because AME is poorly threaded and can't take advantage of extra cores efficiently (my 12 core workstation is only half utilized when running AME as opposed to full utilization with my ffmpeg encodes), thus elevating IPC as an important detail for 24/7 workloads.
 
sleepybp said:
If I were buying today It would be 2600 or 2600X bc you can upgrade to the Zen 2 7nm next year on same platform and sell your Ryzen for most of the cost.
Click to expand...
I'm reluctant to do things like that because I wonder what will the Zen 2 7mm chips be like - which mobos will they be using? AMD took a while to provide stable BIOS versions so although they might run, I am still unsure about it.
 
pavel said:
I'm reluctant to do things like that because I wonder what will the Zen 2 7mm chips be like - which mobos will they be using? AMD took a while to provide stable BIOS versions so although they might run, I am still unsure about it.
Click to expand...
AM4
 
pavel said:
I'm reluctant to do things like that because I wonder what will the Zen 2 7mm chips be like - which mobos will they be using? AMD took a while to provide stable BIOS versions so although they might run, I am still unsure about it.
Click to expand...


even though zen 2 will work on all am4 motherboards i think as long as you go with the 400 series you should be fine. most of the issues that appeared with the 300 series due to the rapid release time table AIB's had because of mistakes AMD made to keep everything hush hush about ryzen don't really show up in the 400 series since AIB's had a year to fix them. also looking at a lot of the higher end 400 series they seem to be a bit more future proofed with the more robust vrm's and power inputs. i wouldn't be surprised if AMD has no plans of releasing a new chipset for zen 2 and instead waiting til 2020 to release the new chipset with zen 3(DDR5/PCIE4).
 
Does it make sense to get a used i7-8700K cpu and cheap CL board and wait until the new processors come out? Is the i9-9900K coming out in Sept of this year?

Or maybe start buying the other components (I already have 16GB of Corsair - hynix - memory)? For e.g., determine what form factor and get psu, case, cooler, etc.? I would like to have something by Xmas...

My current system is old and often freezes up or crashes. I was going to sell individual parts but I noticed my cpu, Q6600, is only worth $20-ish on ebay now. :-( The motherboards still have value and DDR2 RAM?

Maybe just keep it as a server or for watching videos?
 
Here is a good review of the Ryzen 2700X vs the 8700K - https://thinkcomputers.org/amd-ryzen-7-2700x-processor-review/

The only thing I don't like about this review is the charts are set to show a big difference even if there is a one frame difference, you have to look at the numbers to fully understand the review not the charts.

IMO Ryzen is the better over all chip the gaming performance is to too close now.
 
Related to this topic: Could someone please explain the difference between how Ryzen and Intel implements the use of their cores?

From what I think I understand so far, all Ryzen cores are used more or less equally under load (precision boost), whereas with Intel only one or two cores are maxed out under load (turbo boost). Is this correct?
 
sleepybp said:
If I were buying today It would be 2600 or 2600X bc you can upgrade to the Zen 2 7nm next year on same platform and sell your Ryzen for most of the cost.
Click to expand...
I'm looking at the R5 2600 now! The price is pretty good, I think. I need too many components to finish the build.... I thought, after the SSD, PSU, case, etc. etc. and maybe upgrading with a new router, Battery UPS, OS, etc. etc. - the final price will get up there. I think the option to upgrade to Zen 2 7nm is good, too. Do you think you can do that on B450 mobos? I found an MSI that looks good to me.

bobzdar said:
Running at rated speed hasn't been a big concern since around 6 months after the initial ryzen launch. My hynix 3000mhz cl15 ram has been running at that speed since then, on both a b350 board and an x370 board, with both an r7 1700 and my current 2700x. Overclocking is a little different, but running rated speeds shouldn't be an issue unless you're trying to go over 3200mhz, and even then the 2xxx chips can usually do 3466.

I have 2 ryzen systems running (3 counting my 2700u laptop), one a higher end vr gaming/streaming system and the other a super small form factor portable setup to do the same, though sacrificing some performance for the sake of portability and budget. Both have been good, though the portable one had a bad board initially. I think that's probably the bigger gotcha, picking the right motherboard for what you want to do. I was going budget so took a gamble on an Amazon warehouse deal low end asrock b350 matx board that didn't pan out as it failed during a bios update.

I also have a couple of intel systems at work and honestly they're also good. I felt more cores was going to be more important going forward so went amd and it largely looks to be the correct decision.

Regarding the motherboards, b350 (or 450, there's no big difference) if you're not overclocking or running a ton of peripherals, x370/470 if you are. Both of mine are currently x370 but only because I got an x370 mitx board for the same price b350s were going for. I still have my prime b350m-a (wouldn't fit in my sff case, unfortunately), might do a 2400g build for the kids.
Click to expand...
What do you know about the B450 mobos? I might want to upgrade later on and that's my only concern with them. I think MSI has some good boards and they seem decent with their VRM/cooling. I'm looking at a R5 2600 - good price in Canada. I thought, maybe a relatively cheap AIO solution for the cpu cooler. H60?
 
I recommend spending no more than 30 to 40 on the best cooler you can find in this price range.
Any additional spent will provide only minimal overclock headroom.
These Ryzen have a hard wall at 4.3ghz regardless of cooler (under safe 24/7 voltages).
 
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