2500k to 4770k

[Deleted member 184142]

Looking for some input, I have had the upgrade itch for some time now but nothing has seemed worth it. However, I play GW2 allot right now, which is very much CPU limited. I was thinking about building a server to mess around with Linux and set up a pfsense and/or TS3 server on the box, started doing some pricing on middle of the road HW and started thinking that for $150 more or so I could just update my CPU/MoBo and use my old ones to build the server with some extra parts I have....But is it worth it? I tend to think I am just trying to talk myself into upgrading. But if I can see a real improvement in GW2, I would be more than willing to jump on the upgrade, if nothing else I can sell my old setup if I get bored with messing around with the server as well.

 

[Dangman]

Not really worth the upgrade in your case.

 

[Deleted member 184142]

How so? I mean, I agree to a point, but being that the game I play the most is very CPU limited it might be worth it to me, because I get a upgrade as well as parts to finish a server out of it. The down side is any benchmarks for the game with the 4770k seem to be nonexistent, so how much of a gain I have no idea.

 

[cortexodus]

Relevant?

 

[Deleted member 184142]

Relevant?

Finding comparisons of the 2500k vs 4770k are very easy to do, however, most games tested are all GPU limited and the difference of the 2500k vs the 4770k are very small if any at all. However, the game that I play right now, is very CPU limited, my GPU hits 60-70% max and only for short times, while a single core on my 2500k will be maxed with 2 other cores running 80%+, which is where the new CPU comes into play, assuming the same clocks, the 4770k will be faster, but how much that relates to FPS in the game for me is unknown.

 

[Dangman]

How so? I mean, I agree to a point, but being that the game I play the most is very CPU limited it might be worth it to me, because I get a upgrade as well as parts to finish a server out of it. The down side is any benchmarks for the game with the 4770k seem to be nonexistent, so how much of a gain I have no idea.

The problem is that it's not going to be that much of a performance increase due to the fact that your 2500K is already overclocked to 4.5Ghz. The average overclock for the Core i7 4770K is 4.2Ghz. Despite the 4770K's better IPC, that 300MHz clock speed increase is still enough to close the performance gap between the 2500K and the 4770K. Nor can I find any information whatsoever whether or not GW2 will take advantage of more than 4 cores/threads. So the 4770K's HT may be of rather limited use.

Now look at the costs involved: Assuming that you're not near a Microcenter, the 4770K costs $340 alone. Then add in an overclock capable motherboard and that's probably another $120 to $140 right there. So that's $460 to $480 for a rather small performance increase at clock for clock speeds. You could build a whole new server for $480 including case and PSU.

That's why I said it's not worth it in your case.

 

[Deleted member 184142]

The problem is that it's not going to be that much of a performance increase due to the fact that your 2500K is already overclocked to 4.5Ghz. The average overclock for the Core i7 4770K is 4.2Ghz. Despite the 4770K's better IPC, that 300MHz clock speed increase is still enough to close the performance gap between the 2500K and the 4770K. Nor can I find any information whatsoever whether or not GW2 will take advantage of more than 4 cores/threads. So the 4770K's HT may be of rather limited use.

Now look at the costs involved: Assuming that you're not near a Microcenter, the 4770K costs $340 alone. Then add in an overclock capable motherboard and that's probably another $120 to $140 right there. So that's $460 to $480 for a rather small performance increase at clock for clock speeds. You could build a whole new server for $480 including case and PSU.

That's why I said it's not worth it in your case.

Most I have seen are getting 4.5Ghz, and no, GW2 will not make use of more than 4 threads, with a total of about 3 threads worth of work being used, as the one thread used that limits renders, is almost always at 100% and so the others sit around the 60% mark.

I also drive by a MC every day on my way to work, total for the 4770k and Z87 Pro would be 432 after tax, or 357 after tax for the 4670k. Which is about $150 more than the HW I was going to buy to build the server.

 

[Dangman]

Most I have seen are getting 4.5Ghz, and no, GW2 will not make use of more than 4 threads, with a total of about 3 threads worth of work being used, as the one thread used that limits renders, is almost always at 100% and so the others sit around the 60% mark..

So wouldn't that mean you should be looking at the 4670K instead then? As for the overclock, I'm seeing different: At work, a lot of the 4770Ks we're overclocking only hit 4.2Ghz.

I also drive by a MC every day on my way to work, total for the 4770k and Z87 Pro would be 432 after tax, or 357 after tax for the 4670k. Which is about $150 more than the HW I was going to buy to build the server.

Even at $150 extra, I still doubt the performance increase will be that worthwhile. Plus, unless you already have spare RAM, PSU, HDD, and case, you'd still need to buy the rest of the those parts. Which means the price increase is still a lot higher.

But if you want some more proof and don't mind fuzzy-ish logic/math: Like you, I couldn't find performance reviews with the GW2. So I had to do a bit of guesstimation and approximation. Here's the Xbitlab's review of the 4670K which included the 4770K and the 2550K. All three CPUs are clocked the same and the part I'm linking is for the gaming performance:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/core-i5-4670k-4670-4570-4430_5.html#sect0

Remember that at lower resolutions, you're more CPU limited than you are at higher resolutions. Since GW2 is supposedly CPU limited, I use the lower-resolution numbers for each of those games as an approximation for GW2's supposed CPU limitations.

Now look at those 1280x800 numbers for the 4670K and 2550K. They ranged anywhere from 4% to as much as 13%. Even if we assume the best case scenario for GW2 is the higher number, a 13% performance is still too low to justify spending money for a $432 4770K upgrade or $357 4670K upgrade plus the costs of any additional parts you may need to complete the server.

 

[Deleted member 184142]

Already have RAM, PSU, HDD and case for the server I will be building, the middle of the road HW I was going to be getting was about $200 for the CPU and mobo from MC, depending on which mobo/CPU I settled on, but they were all about that area. Also, just because it does not make use of more than 4 threads does not mean I might not want the 4770k, as I said, this is also part of a upgrade itch I have had for a few years now, just nothing ever gave me a reason to upgrade. Starting to think I am going to die an old man and still be running the 2500k. Though with that said, for the money spent, it has lasted me a long time and has been a rock solid setup.

The review there is a bit more interesting, however I really wish they showed what the CPU loading was like at those settings, were they still GPU limited or was a thread on the CPU being capped and starving the GPU? That is the biggest unknown for me. Sadly I don't know anyone running a 4770k or 4670k that plays GW2, at least that would give me a ball park. *sigh* maybe I will just buy the cheap G3220 and one of the cheap 50 buck mobos to satisfy my learning needs for Linux and drop the rest on another M500.

 

[Dangman]

Already have RAM, PSU, HDD and case for the server I will be building, the middle of the road HW I was going to be getting was about $200 for the CPU and mobo from MC, depending on which mobo/CPU I settled on, but they were all about that area. Also, just because it does not make use of more than 4 threads does not mean I might not want the 4770k, as I said, this is also part of a upgrade itch I have had for a few years now, just nothing ever gave me a reason to upgrade. Starting to think I am going to die an old man and still be running the 2500k. Though with that said, for the money spent, it has lasted me a long time and has been a rock solid setup.

Yeah, you're going to be waiting awhile for a worthwhile 2500K upgrade. Probably around the 2016 time frame: DDR4 RAM will probably be a bit more reasonably priced and whatever new Intel platform is out should have enough of a performance increase over the 2500K.

The review there is a bit more interesting, however I really wish they showed what the CPU loading was like at those settings, were they still GPU limited or was a thread on the CPU being capped and starving the GPU? That is the biggest unknown for me. Sadly I don't know anyone running a 4770k or 4670k that plays GW2, at least that would give me a ball park. *sigh* maybe I will just buy the cheap G3220 and one of the cheap 50 buck mobos to satisfy my learning needs for Linux and drop the rest on another M500.

If you do know people who own 4770K or a 4670K, maybe for the price of dinner and/or drinks, maybe convince them to let you download, install, and run GW2 on their PC with your video card?

 

[Deleted member 184142]

No such luck on anyone around me with either, and no one I know in game or on their forums has admitted to running a setup with one. Having my GPU would matter little, as even under the most demanding parts of the game, it hits only 70%.

As for the server, thinking about it, and the fact I am just using it to learn Linux, I might just pick up one of the 1037U based imbedded boards ($70), as it should have the power to run a server no problem, and even act as a pfsense box if I keep it as such.

 

[fantabulous]

Wouldn't be worth the money to me, even considering the GW2 situation. In the iterim while you make a decision, though, why not just virtualize linux and skip buying the cheap hardware?

 

[Deleted member 184142]

Wouldn't be worth the money to me, even considering the GW2 situation. In the iterim while you make a decision, though, why not just virtualize linux and skip buying the cheap hardware?

Wanted to set up a pfsense box after I was done messing with learning my basics around a Linux server from a SSH connection. Might also end up hosting a TS3 server as well some point down the line, which is also part of the reason for learning how to work my way around a Linux server.

 

[Ocellaris]

Do you had a SSD for Guild Wars 2? That helps out the game a lot more than a slightly faster CPU.

 

[Deleted member 184142]

An SSD helps with loading screens etc, but does not help with FPS, in large zerg fights, FPS comes to a crash, dropping down to 15fps in some cases. However, yes, I have 2 SSD's, one for OS and some programs and one for most played games.

 

[Ocellaris]

An SSD helps with loading screens etc, but does not help with FPS, in large zerg fights, FPS comes to a crash, dropping down to 15fps in some cases. However, yes, I have 2 SSD's, one for OS and some programs and one for most played games.

Going from 15 fps to 17 fps isn't going to save you in those situations Adjusting game settings can make a large difference and past that the game engine is not the best. I always lower a few settings if I am doing RvRvR for a while.

 

[Deleted member 184142]

Well, as I said, my GPU only hits 60-70% maxed, lowering settings does not change anything, other than culling, I can max all settings or set them to lowest, and it only affects max FPS, in a open area, max settings might be 70-80 FPS, while lowest might be 90 FPS, while the settings in a zerg fight might only move 1-2 FPS, this being because I can track down the bottle neck to a single thread from the game, which hits a limit around lots of other players and causes the FPS to tank. The engine of the game over all is fine, it is the fact it does not make use of all the cores the problem. It can see and use 4 cores, but because of that single thread bottlenecking, the game as a whole never uses much more than 3 cores (if that) worth of power. Allot of the time, when I get into areas with large number of other players, I see CPU usage as a whole go down, when that single thread starts to cap. Many people think this is due to the game wanting to be ported to xbox, which is why the engine only uses about 3 cores worth of CPU cycles, whatever the case, it sucks.