$2500 Upgrade Help

[Blackjack]

EDITED FROM SCRATCH:

My current build is as follows:
Case: Corsair Obsidian 650D
Processor: i7-920 w/ Corsair H100
Motherboard: MSI Big-Bang XPower
PSU: Corsair AX1200
RAM: 24GB G-Skill Ripjaw X DDR3 1600
GFX: 2x MSI NGTX580 Lightning Xtreme Edition (3GB Cards) in SLI
Sound: Asus Xonar Essence XTS
Storage: 1x 128 GB Crucial SSD (forget model) (Main OS)
2x Western Digital Black 640 GB drives RAID0 (games)
Monitor: Asus 24" VG248QE

1) What will you be doing with this PC? Gaming? Photoshop? Web browsing? etc
PC will be used primarily for 144hz gaming (BF4+others for the foreseeable future) and my pentesting VM lab (3-4 simultaneous virtual machines)

2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included?
$2500 for the upgrade. Lets say tax and shipping are not included.

3) Which country do you live in? If the U.S, please tell us the state and city if possible.
Woodbridge, NJ USA

4) What exact parts do you need for that budget? CPU, RAM, case, etc. The word "Everything" is not a valid answer. Please list out all the parts you'll need.
CPU, Heatsink, Memory, Motherboard, GFX Card or two, SSD/Storage (at least one for OS and one for games)

5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Please be especially specific about the power supply. List make and model.
Case, PSU (Corsair 1200AX, Sound Card, Potentially the WD Black drives, Mouse, Keyboard, Speakers/Headphones, Monitor.

6) Will you be overclocking?
I plan to yes

7) What is the max resolution of your monitor? What size is it?
24" 1920x1080

8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?
ASAP - Main PC is down and need to be back up and running within the next week

9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? USB 3.0? SATA 6Gb/s? eSATA? Onboard video (as a backup or main GPU)? UEFI? etc.
Crossfire/SLI support for future upgrades. USB3.0 is a huge plus as is SATA 6Gb/s.

10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? If yes, what OS? Is it 32bit or 64bit?
Will be using a Windows 7 Professional 64 bit license.

As stated above, primary use case is gaming. I want to be able to play modern games smoothly for the foreseeable future at 144hz. I don't plan on moving to a multiple monitor setup or a higher res monitor any time soon. My primary game at the moment is BF4.

In addition, the PC needs to be able to run 3-4 virtual machines (mix of linux/windows/windows server) for pentesting testing. This will not happen at the same time as gaming.

I took the preliminary parts list I had before and scrapped it as slightly outdated. At the moment i'm looking to base the PC around the Intel 5930X processor. It seems that, should I need to go this route, I will need to commit to the x99 platform (along with DDR4 memory). I don't mind spending the money on the parts as long as the computer lasts me at least as long as this one did.

 

[Dangman]

Please read question 8 again and answer it again.

 

[DJ Big T]

For 2500 you can do way better. You only need 16 gb, or even 8gb of RAM. You should focus on CPU, Motherboard, high quality SSDs, and graphics, IMO. I'll try to get a build up for you shortly.

 

[Dangman]

For 2500 you can do way better. You only need 16 gb, or even 8gb of RAM.

Considering that he's planning on running four virtual machines at the same time, I would not recommend 8GB of RAM. Also, during the BF4 beta, it was reported that the BF4 beta used up to 6.5GB of RAM during short playthroughs. Now whether or not that was just BF4 bug has not conclusively confirmed. So until then, I'd err on the side of caution and just shoot for 16GB of RAM. Though with rising RAM costs, might as well get as much RAM as reasonably possible.

 

[Blackjack]

Please read question 8 again and answer it again.

Got it. Sorry about that!

For 2500 you can do way better. You only need 16 gb, or even 8gb of RAM. You should focus on CPU, Motherboard, high quality SSDs, and graphics, IMO. I'll try to get a build up for you shortly.

The build i'm planning includes 16 GB. The only reason I have 24 GB now is ram was dirt cheap when I bought it and I figured I might as well max out my motherboard.

SNIP

Yea, multiple VM's necessitate using quite a bit of RAM so minimum would be 16 GB. I figured that 16GB worth of fast ram would be better than 32GB of slower ram. Plus, once prices drop I can always drop 4 more sticks in to bring it up to 32 (for fun).

Thanks a lot for the replies so far.

 

[Dangman]

Yea, multiple VM's necessitate using quite a bit of RAM so minimum would be 16 GB. I figured that 16GB worth of fast ram would be better than 32GB of slower ram.

Not really. Current Intel platforms do no benefit that much from higher speed RAM in most real world apps and games. So between the two extremes for games, they're practically the same. However for virtual machines, more RAM definitely wins out. With that said, supposedly BF4 might benefit from higher RAM speeds but that hasn't been independently confirmed yet. So until we get word otherwise, DDR3 1600 RAM is the most you'll need. Maybe DDR3 1866 if it costs the same. Also, don't gimp the main advantage of the X79 platform over the Z87 platform (double the RAM support and DIMM slots) by going with 4GB sticks of RAM. Aim for 8GB sticks of RAM for maximum upgrade room.

Plus, once prices drop I can always drop 4 more sticks in to bring it up to 32 (for fun).

RAM prices dropped basically two years ago man.One was able to get 8GB of DDR3 RAM for $35 to $40. It has since gone up. Unfortunately, for the foreseeable future, RAM prices are only going to go up. So might as well get as much RAM as reasonably possible now.

 

[Blackjack]

SNIP.

Yea I was basing my memory decision around what I read about bf3. Didn't know it hasn't been verified yet. Looks like DDR3 1600 runs about 309 for 32 gigs of corsair vengeance using 8 gig sticks. That may be a better option and leave me room to go to 64 gigs if/when I go mad.

 

[Dangman]

Yea I was basing my memory decision around what I read about bf3. Didn't know it hasn't been verified yet. Looks like DDR3 1600 runs about 309 for 32 gigs of corsair vengeance using 8 gig sticks. That may be a better option and leave me room to go to 64 gigs if/when I go mad.

Too pricey: You can just get two sets of 2 x 8GB of RAM for $280 total (or $140 each):
$140 - Corsair Vengeance CML16GX3M2A1600C10 2 x 8GB DDR3 1600 RAM

Cheaper and you're going to get the same performance.

With that said, you're planning your build list a bit too early as computer hardware pricing and availability do change quite often and sometimes in as little as a week. So I recommend waiting until 1-2 weeks at most fro9m your planned purchase date to ask for advice then. By then you'll get more up-to-date advice and possibly better parts for the money.

Not to mention that we'll know a lot more about what sort of hardware is needed to get the most out of BF4.

 

[Zepher]

Just a little FYI if you didn't know yet, Steam now allows multiple locations for installs, I have the games I play regularly on an ssd and the rest on a wd 2tb black.

 

[Blackjack]

Too pricey: You can just get two sets of 2 x 8GB of RAM for $280 total (or $140 each):
$140 - Corsair Vengeance CML16GX3M2A1600C10 2 x 8GB DDR3 1600 RAM

Cheaper and you're going to get the same performance.

With that said, you're planning your build list a bit too early as computer hardware pricing and availability do change quite often and sometimes in as little as a week. So I recommend waiting until 1-2 weeks at most fro9m your planned purchase date to ask for advice then. By then you'll get more up-to-date advice and possibly better parts for the money.

Not to mention that we'll know a lot more about what sort of hardware is needed to get the most out of BF4.

Yea I figured. I'll lock this thread for a few weeks and open it back up when i'm closer to the build. Thanks for your time so far!

Just a little FYI if you didn't know yet, Steam now allows multiple locations for installs, I have the games I play regularly on an ssd and the rest on a wd 2tb black.

I'll have to look into this. I tend to just install/download everything once i'm done with a new build and leave it. Kinda behind the times .

 

[Blackjack]

Re-opening and bumping this thread. Something shorted on my Big Bang X-Power and now I'm without a primary computer. Wasn't planning on doing this upgrade until next year but i guess i'll push it up. I've made a few changes which should be reflected in the main post.

 

[Dangman]

Re-opening and bumping this thread. Something shorted on my Big Bang X-Power and now I'm without a primary computer. Wasn't planning on doing this upgrade until next year but i guess i'll push it up. I've made a few changes which should be reflected in the main post.

What changes did you make? That build list still has the same issues that I pointed out last year.

 

[Blackjack]

What changes did you make? That build list still has the same issues that I pointed out last year.

Yea, that parts list was old. I ripped it out and am trying to work from as blank a slate as possible. I haven't really been paying attention to whats new on the high-end desktop hardware scene so i'm a little lost.

As mentioned above, I like the idea of a 6 core processor, I feel that would help with multiple simultaneous VMs, which is why i'm looking towards the 5930k. No idea where to go from there though.

Feel free to ask any more questions and sorry if i'm still being unclear.

 

[Dangman]

Since you only mentioned two GPUs at most, you don't need the 5930K. The 5820K should do the job just fine.

How long is the drive to these Microcenters for you?
http://www.microcenter.com/site/stores/north-jersey.aspx
http://www.microcenter.com/site/stores/westbury.aspx
http://www.microcenter.com/site/stores/yonkers.aspx
http://www.microcenter.com/site/stores/brooklyn.aspx
http://www.microcenter.com/site/stores/queens.aspx

 

[Blackjack]

Since you only mentioned two GPUs at most, you don't need the 5930K. The 5820K should do the job just fine.

How long is the drive to these Microcenters for you?
http://www.microcenter.com/site/stores/north-jersey.aspx
http://www.microcenter.com/site/stores/westbury.aspx
http://www.microcenter.com/site/stores/yonkers.aspx
http://www.microcenter.com/site/stores/brooklyn.aspx
http://www.microcenter.com/site/stores/queens.aspx

I like the price point of the 5820 better for sure. Leaves me with alot more room to play with. The on in Paterson is around 40 minutes away. Not terribly far, but in a pretty awful area. Newegg orders generally get here in 2 days with regular shipping and I have Amazon prime too.

 

[Dangman]

Well here's the deal: The problem with going X99 right now is that it's a recently released platform and therefore still has quite a bit of teething issues. As such, it's pretty much a large gamble as to whether or not you're going to get a solid X99 motherboard.

In addition, Newegg's search is pretty much broken at the moment so I can't provide you with a X99 platform that I would know has a good bang for the buck value. Well mainly for the RAM and motherboard anyway.

For the SSD, I recommend this:
$280 - Samsung 840 Pro 512GB SSD

For the GPU, I recommend the GTX 980 in your case.

For the HSF, reuse your current HSF.

 

[Blackjack]

Well here's the deal: The problem with going X99 right now is that it's a recently released platform and therefore still has quite a bit of teething issues. As such, it's pretty much a large gamble as to whether or not you're going to get a solid X99 motherboard.

In addition, Newegg's search is pretty much broken at the moment so I can't provide you with a X99 platform that I would know has a good bang for the buck value. Well mainly for the RAM and motherboard anyway.

For the SSD, I recommend this:
$280 - Samsung 840 Pro 512GB SSD

For the GPU, I recommend the GTX 980 in your case.

For the HSF, reuse your current HSF.

Possibly a stupid question, but do I have to go x99 if i use the 5830? Would it work with a slightly older but more reliable platform?

GTX980 was at the top of my list. I'll have to find one And i'll pick up a pair of those SSD's as well.

I'll have to make sure I can find the extra hardware for the heatsink. If not I may need to order it.

 

[Dangman]

Possibly a stupid question, but do I have to go x99 if i use the 5830? Would it work with a slightly older but more reliable platform?

GTX980 was at the top of my list. I'll have to find one And i'll pick up a pair of those SSD's as well.

I'll have to make sure I can find the extra hardware for the heatsink. If not I may need to order it.

Yes you need X99 for the 5820K and 5930K CPUs.

 

[Blackjack]

Yes you need X99 for the 5820K and 5930K CPUs.

Makes sense. Would it be worth it to consider some of the last gen chipsets like the Z97? Especially since there is likely more stable and known hardware out there for it?

Lets also assume that I no longer need to be running my test lab on this workstation. This will be dedicated solely to gaming as described above (I have a server I can run VM's on now)

Maybe something like this setup would work:

ASUS Maximum VII Formula

I7 4790K

Another advantage I can see by going this route is not having to deal with a new platform with DDR4 memory. I also, may be able to reuse my current memory, assuming it didn't go along with my board.

I'm also looking to grab an EVGA Superclocked GTX980. If I can find one in stock anywhere.

EDIT:

Further research shows that there really isn't much of a difference between Z97 and Z87. Looks like the only addition is M.2 support which I won't be utilizing. I think I would go with this motherboard for a Z87 build which should work with the 4790K ASUS Maximum VI Extreme ATX

 

[Dangman]

Makes sense. Would it be worth it to consider some of the last gen chipsets like the Z97? Especially since there is likely more stable and known hardware out there for it?

As long as you don't plan on using more than 32GB of RAM, three or more GPUs, and/or plan on running a dozen or more VMs, then yes the lower-end Z97 platform is a good choice. However.....

Lets also assume that I no longer need to be running my test lab on this workstation. This will be dedicated solely to gaming as described above (I have a server I can run VM's on now)

Maybe something like this setup would work:

ASUS Maximum VII Formula

I7 4790K

...........
EDIT:

Further research shows that there really isn't much of a difference between Z97 and Z87. Looks like the only addition is M.2 support which I won't be utilizing. I think I would go with this motherboard for a Z87 build which should work with the 4790K ASUS Maximum VI Extreme ATX

Neither of those motherboards are good choices unless your goal is "waste money". At $200+ for a motherboard, you might as well go for the higher-end X99 platforms since at least the higher costs for the X99 platform is justified due to the extra feature/capabilities. FOr the LGA 1150 platform, the $200+ motherboard don't really bring a massively difference that would justify their purchase over cheaper LGA 1150 mobos like these:
$132 - AsRock Fatal1ty Z97X Killer Intel Z97 Motherboard
$140 - Asus Z97-A Intel Z97 Motherboard

 

[Blackjack]

As long as you don't plan on using more than 32GB of RAM, three or more GPUs, and/or plan on running a dozen or more VMs, then yes the lower-end Z97 platform is a good choice. However.....


Neither of those motherboards are good choices unless your goal is "waste money". At $200+ for a motherboard, you might as well go for the higher-end X99 platforms since at least the higher costs for the X99 platform is justified due to the extra feature/capabilities. FOr the LGA 1150 platform, the $200+ motherboard don't really bring a massively difference that would justify their purchase over cheaper LGA 1150 mobos like these:
$132 - AsRock Fatal1ty Z97X Killer Intel Z97 Motherboard
$140 - Asus Z97-A Intel Z97 Motherboard

Thanks. I'll take a look at these options and come back if I have any other questions. I've already ordered the SSD and a GTX980 which will take a bit to come in. I generally prefer to be at the cutting edge rather than the bleeding edge which means i'll likely shy towards saving a bit and going z97 with one of those suggestions. Especially since I never plan on utilizing any of the features of x99

Any suggestions for DDR3 memory? I'm still looking at 32 GB and no more.

 

[Dangman]

Thanks. I'll take a look at these options and come back if I have any other questions. I've already ordered the SSD and a GTX980 which will take a bit to come in. I generally prefer to be at the cutting edge rather than the bleeding edge which means i'll likely shy towards saving a bit and going z97 with one of those suggestions. Especially since I never plan on utilizing any of the features of x99

Any suggestions for DDR3 memory? I'm still looking at 32 GB and no more.

Buy four of this RAM ASAP:
$70 - Kingston HyperX FURY HX316C10F/8 8GB DDR3 1600 RAM

I say ASAP since RAM pricing has been fluctuating a lot lately so a week from now that RAM could be at the $80 mark. Kingston RAM tends to be a bit more reliable than other RAM manufacturers hence my recommendation.

 

[Blackjack]

Buy four of this RAM ASAP:
$70 - Kingston HyperX FURY HX316C10F/8 8GB DDR3 1600 RAM

I say ASAP since RAM pricing has been fluctuating a lot lately so a week from now that RAM could be at the $80 mark. Kingston RAM tends to be a bit more reliable than other RAM manufacturers hence my recommendation.

Done. Thanks for the help!