2405 input lag

Do the 2005fpws exhibit this lag?

I thought I noticed something like that when i first got the monitor but i bumped it up to 75hz and it seemed to go away
 
The lag is pretty aweful on my 2405. To the point where I realized I had a 2,500 dollar rig built to play games that I avoided playing due to the problem. So I built a 2nd box for websurfing and daily use for the 2405 and have my gaming rig on a 19in CRT. :(
 
We need someone who claims that their 2405 works perfectly to post some form of evidence to support this. It seems to me that every 2405 is afflicted by this, and people who claim that theirs is fine probably just don't notice it.

Yes, I think a casual gamer would notice it, they just might not realize what it is. If you were to sit the casual gamer down in front of two PC's, one with a CRT and one with a 2405, I'm pretty sure the magority would notice the reponsiveness of the CRT.

Lots might still prefer the 2405 due to the increase clarity/screen size, but I think almost all people would notice the lagginess they feel in the mouse movements.

When I first got my 2405 I didn't really notice the mouse lag too much, something felt different, but I didn't think it was "lag". Then my brother (who is lesser hardcore gamer than myself) sat down at my computer and instantly started complaining about how laggy the mouse felt. That's when I first started looking into this issue.
 
PKFGimpy said:
We need someone who claims that their 2405 works perfectly to post some form of evidence to support this. It seems to me that every 2405 is afflicted by this, and people who claim that theirs is fine probably just don't notice it.

Yes, I think a casual gamer would notice it, they just might not realize what it is. If you were to sit the casual gamer down in front of two PC's, one with a CRT and one with a 2405, I'm pretty sure the magority would notice the reponsiveness of the CRT.

Lots might still prefer the 2405 due to the increase clarity/screen size, but I think almost all people would notice the lagginess they feel in the mouse movements.

When I first got my 2405 I didn't really notice the mouse lag too much, something felt different, but I didn't think it was "lag". Then my brother (who is lesser hardcore gamer than myself) sat down at my computer and instantly started complaining about how laggy the mouse felt. That's when I first started looking into this issue.
Click to expand...


Well, I do not doubt that a CRT is going to offer a much more clear image than ANY LCD screen. But, I have used several CRT's (Mostly 19 in) and several LCDs (17in up to my 24in) and, from a LCD prospective, I don't notice any different lag or any other anomaly that I don't see on any other LCD screen.

Maybe the lag is with your systems. I mean, the native size of the monitor is 1920x1200; most people will get lag at this resolution on most games.

But, I am happy with my monitor and thats all that counts...
 
Embrace your not understanding what we all mean by Lag. It is not lag in your typical video card performance issues, this is something different.

The lag most people are refering to is a 50 ms delay between input and display on the screen. It is constant. It doesn't fluctuate depending on your system's usage. The display is always just 50 ms behind.

50 ms isn't alot of time but is enough to be noticed. Just for comparison's sake, it takes the average person 400 to 500 milliseconds to blink an eye. And just for reference there are 1,000 ms in 1 second. So you can see that 50 ms is a very small amount of time.

Why do people notice it? Believe it or not the human brain and the eye have no difficulty registering this timespan, but the people who notice it the most are the people who are used to something different.

I knew for a fact that I was feeling something ugly when I moved my mouse. I didn't know what it was but I knew I hated it. Switching my refresh rate to 100hz improved the situation so the display is usable. But the lag is still there. I feel it everytime I touch the mouse and it drives me fricking crazy.
 
Ahhh... I think I understand what you mean by mouse lag now...

I went to the Dell site forums and someone there was having similar issues you are all having and offered a test to show everyone what was going on using a MS Notepad window. By grabbing the corners and/or the sides of the window and moving them rapidly back and forth you will see any mouse lag if it exists; should get a rubberband effect with the mouse when moving the window.

Its interesting because in Windows, I do not get this effect at all. I also use Linux and while in that environment using the same test with a compareable (although heavier) application, it doesn't exhibit the issue either.

Others that have this monitor that use Linux as well, that I have talked to, state different results; some state that in Windows, they get weird lag issues with this monitor but while in Linux, its flawless. Some have the same results as I do; flawless performance in both environments. Of the people that had issues that I talked to has had their monitor since last year (Longer that myself and others that don't exhibit the issue.)

Could it be that the Windows drivers for this monitor are not up to par or old on your machines? Have you tried to reformat and/or use driver cleaner to remove the old, original drivers before reinstalling the new ones? Could it be that the graphics interface for Windows just cant handle the monitor? Who knows....

The post on the Dell site did mention a problem with some of the older monitors controller chips that were causing various issues, mouse lag being one of the issues (The forum post was from last year).

Its further possible that I have a newer monitor chip in my 2405 (Bought a few weeks ago) and maybe those that have this problem have the older chip.

As a side note, my NEC 19 in 6ms monitor has the same results performing the same tests as above and performance with my 2405 monitor are almost identical with the NEC.

As far as I am concerned, its a great monitor and I am glad I bought it. I was thinking about getting my wife and kids one when the price drops a wee bit more :)
 
Geebuz has this issue been hashed. I think the last two posts sum it up very well. In the end IMHO the only thing to do is go to a kiosk or such and test drive one before you buy. I just bought a 2405 after hearing all the ravings from my buddies/reviews and am in love. But I'm 30 and have the reflexes of a sloth compared to some of you here so if there was lag I'd never notice it. Racked up 136 kills with a sniper rifle in CSS last night so it definately doesn't effect my headshots <shrug>. From what I can tell it sounds like a combination of buffer lag and ghosting that is driving you eagle eyes up a wall. My condolences because WoW in wide is a different game ;) Quit bellyaching and go test drive whichever LCD your eyeballing and see if it bugs you. If so hold off until SED, no biggy.
 
I recently got this monitor, and immediately noticed this lag on the two games that I tried: Q4 and FEAR. I have an Athlon 64 3200 and 6800GT, 1GB RAM, MX510 mouse, and the monitor was manufacturer in week 50 of last year. At first it looked like the old 'texture quality is too high' problem that I would get on previous systems when I turned a game's quality settings to maximum. For example, Doom 3 on Ultra high setting. The lag would go away when I lowered that setting. That was what happened on previous systems, so I thought what happened then was happening again here (I had not played FEAR or Q4 before I got the 2405).

However, the games seemed to be playing at an OK FPS; it wasn't juttering, so it wasn't as if the system as a whole had a hard time showing the picture...

I set the display to 100Hz using the Nvidia drivers (100Hz wasn't an option on Windows' control panel), and that seemed to reduce the lag a bit, but it was still noticeable.

I cranked down all game settings to minimum, and set the resolution to that of the 2405's native (with the help of widescreenforum.com's hacks) - 1920x1200. Even with all the settings at a minimum, that lag was still there - until I changed the game resolution to crazy small like 640x480. With the picture unstretched in the middle of the big screen, there was no lag. That was telling me that the graphics card just couldn't handle FEAR and Q4 at native res. I actually had to cover up the gun that my character was holding because in Q4 he keeps swinging it a bit after he's stopped turning, which was distracting and made the lag look worse.

I tried some older games: Q3, UT (the original), and the more recent UT2004, again at native 1920x1200. These games showed no lag at maximum quality settings (I could actually perform trick jumps in Q3 - see below). This, again, was telling me that the monitor was not the cause of the lag, implying that the graphics card couldn't handle the two newer games. What I did notice was very odd, though: the lag showed itself awfully on the in-game menus.

I noticed no lag at all when dragging windows around on the Windows desktop.

However, I am intrigued by the post that shows the 2405 and another monitor side-by-side, running the same timer display with the 2405 clearly lagging behind. I received a 1905 for a different machine at the same time as the 2405. I'll perform that experiment using both displays as well as with 2405 vs the Iiyama 19" CRT I was using with it previously. I'll post the results here.

I need to test this soon, because if I can prove to myself that my monitor has this lag that can't be eliminated with better graphics cards, it has to go back before the seven day Distance Selling Act expires. Otherwise, it's time for a serious graphics upgrade.

I am hoping that all the people with problems are using earlier machines - mine was made under three months ago - and that I just need a graphics card upgrade to play FEAR and Q4.

In the meantime, to the people who also notice this lag, please test the older games - Q3, UT, (at 1920x1200 if possible - I didn't test at anything else). Also, minimise all quality settings in FEAR and Q4 and play them at 640x480 centred (yes, with big black borders all the way around). See if there is lag with those games, just out of curiosity.

PS. Please don't get the impression that I wouldn't notice the lag or don't know what I'm looking for. I used to play a lot of Q3 and UT back in the day and was very good at moving around, trick jumps, etc. (I have even been accused of using a cheat to walk through walls because I could get from one side of the map to the other so fast!), so believe me when I say I'd notice any display lag, which I've noticed in Q4 is nigh on impossible to do, because you can't swing the mouse around and jump just when you want to. You always jump later than you intended.

Which brings me to another point. You people who say it's just a fact of life, live with it, you don't notice it, we're being too picky, or we're just looking for a problem - you are obviously not 'in the game' as the rest of us who care, because we consider there more to a game than 'point and shoot'. That's fine, you carry on being happy as you are, but don't tell the people who get more out of a game than yourselves that they are being too picky.
 
Input lag has absolutly nothing to do with your video cards performance. It is a function of the circuitry inside the LCD display that causes a small delay from the time when the LCD recieves the data to the time the LCD displays the data.

FPS sucking wind because of high resolutions is a completely different issue all together.
 
It is most apparent in Quake 4. I have a very nice system and running it at 1280x1024 no AA it is VERY evident. I'll probably sell this one for 600 or something and pick up a 2407 and hope to god it performs up to par.
 
I have some new info that might help the people who are getting "omg this is so obviously delayed, I have to sell the monitor" results.

Rather than try to explain the perfect game to test it on.

Just goto www.albatross18.com and download/register. It's free to play and a few hundred megs to download.

For reference in the post:

Pangya Bar = The actual power bar at the bottom
Pangya Nub = The small box that moves when you hit start your swing
Pangya = Hitting perfect accuracy (in the middle)

If you're using an ATI card, goto the API Specific settings in the 3D section. Make sure "Alternate Pixel Center" is DISABLED.

Also disable all AA (set it to 2x and check "let application decide").

Now, when you start your swing, and the pangya bar is moving, when you click a specific power (try to hit 90% or whaterever you want -- something that you can easily see and know you want to click), you should notice that the power gets set directly on 90%.

If your reflexes are bad, or aren't used to the game, no worries. Just keep trying. If you're able to hit pangya and cut an exact amount of power, then you're not effected by the "omg this is horrible" lag.

Now, exit the game and ENABLE "alternate pixel center", and if you want enable 2xAA.

Go back in the game and try. It should now be SO lagged that it's retarded. It feels like 500ms off, and it's so easy to tell, even a "30 year old sloth" will see it. It's night and day.

I'm not sure which option (the alternate pixel color or AA) is causing the delay, I refuse to go back and test it further. I'm sure someone will confirm which one is the culprit.

Btw I don't have a 2405, but I was getting really bad input delay when they were enabled on a different widescreen LCD.

Also if you want to just test the game and get out ASAP, hop into "Family Mode", and click start. That'll put you in a single player game, and you won't have to worry about finding opponents in the public server. All in all, it shouldn't take more than 5 minutes to test.
 
Catboxer said:
It is most apparent in Quake 4. I have a very nice system and running it at 1280x1024 no AA it is VERY evident. I'll probably sell this one for 600 or something and pick up a 2407 and hope to god it performs up to par.
Click to expand...

Wouldn't it be smarter to wait fro some feedback on the 2407 before you go out and buy one? My guess is it will suffer the same issue.
 
I did the photo-of-timer test and was 'lucky' enough to catch, after many retries, like a 10mS difference. However, I do NOT notice any lag in Q3. I know the difference between display and texture lag, but has anyone actually tested on an older game like Q3, rather than just assume the display lag is universal?

Maybe the lag is better on newer builds.
 
FYI: The input lag is not related to the videocard, unless CompUSA purposely put an extremely underpowered videocard on their demo display with an HP 21" widescreen monitor, because even the Windows desktop exhibited heavy input lag. The lag between moving the mouse and the response on screen was like moving in slow motion or something. Hard to describe but it was nasty and I would never buy a monitor that exhibits that. From research I see that it is the high native resolution *VA (MVA, PVA) panels that have this problem. (That is the type of panel used in the HP and in the Dell 2405, btw.)
Because of this I am now looking at the Sony P234 as a possible alternative to the Dell 2405. It uses a S-IPS panel. It is currently $200 more than the Dell due to the special sale Dell has on for a couple more days ($799 vs ~$989). I just haven't read enough personal gamer reviews of the P234 to be sold quite yet. Professional reviews I have read though, show that its response time is easily as good or better than the Dell's, its color reproduction is better, and there is no input lag, but its contrast is not as good. It also sports the same pixel count as the Dell but in an inch smaller display, so the pixel pitch is even tighter which is good. My current Sony LCD, a little 17" SDM-X72 has served me well for the past 3-4 years so I would be confident in Sony's quality. I have no dead or stuck pixels and would expect the same from the P234. I do have some backlight leaking but hey this is 3-4 year old tech so I would also expect that to be nonexistant but I guess as we have seen with the Dells on their support forums and elsewhere, quality is hit-or-miss with displays these days.
 
Considering I just got done saying the input lag is even noticeable on the Windows desktop, it clearly doesn't matter what game you choose to test. The only possibility is they were running that HP monitor on such a crappy videocard it couldn't even handle the native res in the windows desktop without exhibiting input lag, but that's so incredibly unlikely considering every modern videocard's 2D capability is able to do 1920x1200 AFAIK.
 
Yeah the game won't matter. I just figured that one would be good because it's heavily based around clicking an exact point on the screen, and if you don't, you'll see it instantly.

Try fiddling around with those 2 video options in any game if you want to test it anywhere. It stumps me too, I have no idea why either of those options would effect an LCD but not a CRT in a negative way.
 
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