24" Widescreen CRT (FW900) From Ebay arrived,Comments.

Discussion in 'Displays' started by mathesar, Sep 13, 2005.

  1. etienne51

    etienne51 [H]Lite

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    I was worried about that actually. I didn't know those details, but I thought it was a bit weird to see such a huge stock of FBTs still available by now.

    I asked them for a photo of one of their units, if they can provide me that. If not, I won't buy anyway, I have to be sure.

    Well, they answered my email, but they told me nothing. And they have NDA btw, I didn't know that.

    Anyway, the link I found earlier have plenty of very interesting informations for the future of HDFury.
    If it turns out that the next HDFury 5 handles at least 400MHz of bandwidth, then we will finally be able to hook up our units right into the latest DisplayPorts and HDMI sources, and we won't have to worry about future graphics cards not supporting analog anymore.

    Sadly, the main drawback is the fact that this device will need to be bought in addition to the graphics card. We will need one for each monitor used simultaneously, and I'm sure it won't be cheap...

    That's great if we have a new member! Welcome!

    One day, I have to buy one of these as well, a Sony GDM-C520K Artisan. This will probably happen as soon as I'm done with my studies, and find a good job.
    And I hope that by then, Unkle Vito will still have one to sell, and... willing to ship it to me. :D
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2015
  2. LAGRUNAUER

    LAGRUNAUER Gawd

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    We have GDM-C520K in stock including one with a zero (0) hours of use.

    UV!
     
  3. etienne51

    etienne51 [H]Lite

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    That's good to know, especially for the new one. Is it one of the two you kept you were talking about in one of your previous posts?

    Sadly, I think maybe I'll buy one in about 2 years from now. I think someone would have already bought it by then. If not, I'll probably become an happy owner of a brand new Artisan. :D
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2015
  4. bluecar5556

    bluecar5556 n00b

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    I have successfully connected my PC to the monitor via windas and the ECS connector. I've made several *.DAT backups of the EEPROM after several hour monitor warmup. I've found various calibration tutorials on pot focus adjustment, geometry, convergence, WPB, etc. but don't they have to be performed in a particular order? Just ordered a ColorEyes X-Rite DTP-94 so hopefully that will be of use without a signal generator? I'm new to all of this so if i'm asking the same question others have, i'm sorry in advance! This post has a lot of information. Right now i'm looking at the index of page numbers, now what?
     
  5. spacediver

    spacediver 2[H]4U

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    You can do a WPB without doing the other adjustments. And you'll be fine using your PC as a signal generator, as described here.
     
  6. jbltecnicspro

    jbltecnicspro [H]ardness Supreme

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    Nothing wrong with owning his pre-owned, calibrated units. I myself have one.
     
  7. etienne51

    etienne51 [H]Lite

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    So like spacediver said, I think WPB is independant, so you can start by doing this.

    Then, if you think your monitor is out of focus, even slightly, I'd recommand you to fix that before running other adjustments like convergence.

    One thing really important. Never try to do a complete reset using MPU, it's not recommanded at all.

    If you don't have a signal generator, you can indeed still use your PC as one, but it won't be as accurate as a device made for that specific purpose. But it will still be good enough for home calibration.
    In case you need it, here is a spreadsheet I made, which lists most of the modes WinDAS needs for the different procedures. Be careful NOT to use "Mode 7" which is beyond the FW900 specs.
     
  8. etienne51

    etienne51 [H]Lite

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    No, of course, that's not what I said. But come on, a brand new unit, in 2015? :D

    For example, I'm pretty sure that one day, I'll end up buying another FW900 from him. Mine won't last forever, even if I repair the FBT this time. And this one won't be brand new.
     
  9. spacediver

    spacediver 2[H]4U

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    For the WPB, I can't think of a reason that a signal generator would be more accurate. For geometry and convergence, where a quality video signal is important for best possible rendering of lines, a signal generator may possible have an edge (although even that's debatable with modern video cards), but for a WPB where luminance and chromaticity is being measured over a large area, I'm confident that there's absolutely no difference, so long as you take the necessary steps to ensure a normalized and linear LUT is being used during signal generation (this is covered in the WPB guide).
     
  10. etienne51

    etienne51 [H]Lite

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    Indeed. About geometry and convergence, I think I'll trust a SG better than my graphics card.

    I still don't have one to compare but as soon as I find one somewhere, I'll see what I decide. For the moment I have other priorities until my monitor is back to perfectly working order.
     
  11. jbltecnicspro

    jbltecnicspro [H]ardness Supreme

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    I have a signal generator. I'd be more than happy to compare the outputs of the two (for geometry and convergence at least). Shooting from the hip though, any convergence issues displayed with a crosshatch on the signal generator are usually repeatable on my graphics card.

    The part where signal generators excel though, is that they are dedicated machines for the sole purpose of pattern generation. No hardware or software layers to abstract. No need to second guess whether or not the GUI rendering engine is doing it right or not.

    I've been trying to do pattern generation on my computer for my CRT TV, and it's been a pain in the ass, to say the least. Even when I got the right mode and resolution selected, I don't know if I'm actually doing it right. Whereas if I had a Sencore VP-series pattern generator, all I do is select an HD mode, select a pattern, and BAM - get to work. No second-guessing.
     
  12. LAGRUNAUER

    LAGRUNAUER Gawd

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    That's correct! One of those two... One is for sale, the other is for keeps...

    UV!
     
  13. LAGRUNAUER

    LAGRUNAUER Gawd

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    That's the right way to do it...
     
  14. jbltecnicspro

    jbltecnicspro [H]ardness Supreme

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    Thanks for the affirmation. I do have to admit. After using a signal generator and integrating it into my workflow, I'll never go back.
     
  15. flod

    flod Gawd

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    i just use gimp, make images with the resolution i want, and draw whatever i want. then save image and display as fullscreen in irfanview or something

    since you can just zoom in with gimp and see individual pixels, i've never had any doubt that the geometry of the images i make is perfect
     
  16. jbltecnicspro

    jbltecnicspro [H]ardness Supreme

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    For monitors it's less risky to use your PC as a pattern generator. But then when you get to television territory, it gets hairy. In my future, I see a Sencore VP-401 purchase.
     
  17. spacediver

    spacediver 2[H]4U

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    yep, if you know what you're doing when you're creating and displaying your test patterns (i.e. correct dimensions, no antialiasing, correct display mode), then the only possible advantage a signal generator has over a video card, other than convenience, is a guaranteed quality video signal. And, even this is debatable.

    The convenience factor is huge though, especially for portability and servicing multiple tubes, some of which may not be easily hooked up to a PC (like a TV for example, as per jbl's post).
     
  18. spacediver

    spacediver 2[H]4U

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    Does the quantum data one you have support customized patterns and modes?
     
  19. jbltecnicspro

    jbltecnicspro [H]ardness Supreme

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    Yes it does. Even if it wasn't compatible with WinDAS, you can create your own custom modes, name them, and program your own custom patterns. This makes it very valuable for calibration. If I didn't have a serial connection, I could simply dial-in the correct mode specified by WinDAS. I could even name them accordingly. :)
     
  20. bluecar5556

    bluecar5556 n00b

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    After attempting to adjust geometry in windas, my brain couldn't take all the warping so I gave up and reloaded a default EEPROM dump. There has to be a method to this instead of 'what looks good' because I dont trust my eyes. Take a look at what I mean viewing the image below.

    An inch from the bottom left corner of the screen is 'bent' upwards and the start button on the taskbar makes the geometrical error really evident. It is bad enough to be distracting. Maybe taping stripes of computer paper in strategic places will help 'square' everything up as a guide? If only I knew what I was trying to accomplish with all the geometry 'modes' because they all affect one another and it throws me off. On rotation, am I making the bottom parallel with the bezel or the top, or both? I could go on and on. Then there is pincushion that makes the monitor look like a pillow and it makes me tired. I failed geometry in HS but I don't remember a shape called 'pincushion.' There is a joke in there somewhere. :)

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2015
  21. spacediver

    spacediver 2[H]4U

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    so why on earth would you waste money on a sencore?
     
  22. jbltecnicspro

    jbltecnicspro [H]ardness Supreme

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    Because the Quantum Data is VGA/RGB only. It does not handle Component video nor digital HDTV signals. You could finagle it probably, but it has no formal television output. The Sencore can handle the television inputs.
     
  23. spacediver

    spacediver 2[H]4U

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  24. jbltecnicspro

    jbltecnicspro [H]ardness Supreme

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    Yep! Actually, you got me thinking. I'm going to check my manual to see if there's a way I can turn the RGB output into component video output. I see already on the machine that in the RGBHV output, H can be HS or CS. I'm guessing this means Horizontal or Composite Sync. There's also a Sync Gate on the machine, so I'll do some digging. Perhaps I don't need to get another generator after all! :)

    There was another 801 produced that DOES have TV output. But I believe it's just Composite and S-Video.
     
  25. flod

    flod Gawd

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    for pc monitors, afaik, the risk is pretty much nonexistant provided you know what you're doing
    i have no idea about tvs
     
  26. LAGRUNAUER

    LAGRUNAUER Gawd

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    That's correct!!!
     
  27. LAGRUNAUER

    LAGRUNAUER Gawd

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    That's correct!!!

    Unless a fortune is spent on the newer digital signal generators, and the user makes a living calibrating home theaters for the rich and famous and/or high end projectors for the corporate world (both very competitive and cut-throat markets), the investment is a truly waste of $ and all you will be getting is a very expensive toy.

    UV!
     
  28. LAGRUNAUER

    LAGRUNAUER Gawd

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    Different models of the Quantum Data 801 and 802 series come with different outputs and connectors, plus difference signal bandwidths...

    UV!
     
  29. atwix

    atwix Limp Gawd

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    I own a gdm-fw900 since 2007.

    Can anyone direct me to an old good CRT software program that includes geometry patterns and contrast images and colour images to calibrate the image with the OSD? It becomes really hard to find a download on the web that doesn't include installing shady download programs, spyware and whatnot.

    Just a name of good CRT calibrate software proggie will do also.

    I know Windas is better, but still... I want to try the software first, see if theres a problem or not.

    I don't THINK there is a problem, it's just well.. I want to give some lovin to my monster :)
     
  30. spacediver

    spacediver 2[H]4U

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    look up nokia monitor test.
     
  31. etienne51

    etienne51 [H]Lite

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    I approve, Nokia Monitor Test is a good piece of software for that, you can get it here.

    But you have to know that it won't work on any 64-bits OS, if you're running Windows 7 x64 or higher. The best is to run it on Windows XP, or on a full screen Windows XP virtual machine inside any OS.
     
  32. etienne51

    etienne51 [H]Lite

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    I have to admit, I had to adjust my geometry not that long ago, and it was exhausting.
    Seriously, it's quite hard, and basically, you just won't be able to have a perfect geometry in the end.
    But you can achieve something really good, near perfect. You just need some time to get used to every single setting available.

    I drew this, I hope it will help you sort things out with all the options WinDAS have.
    (Please someone around here confirm I made no mistake.)

    [​IMG]

    So basically, the settings in blue are the basic ones you can also find in the OSD menu everyday, and the ones in orange are the advanced settings only available in WinDAS geometry adjustment procedures.
    The thing is, you have to balance each of those settings together to get rid of every single geometry issue you might encounter.
     
  33. etienne51

    etienne51 [H]Lite

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    Rah, my convergence is off again, since my issue with the flyback.

    Red and blue are slightly misaligned horizontally, and I can see a bit of red bleed everywhere, specially on white vertical lines, and the left border of the picture.

    Btw, I'm asking myself if fiddling with the focus trimpots on the flyback after so many years didn't weaken something, and that may the root of the issue?
     
  34. bluecar5556

    bluecar5556 n00b

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    After messing around with windas yesterday, when I try to use the OSD buttons on the monitor a green key keeps popping up as if its locked. Does this happen when windas isnt closed down properly? I never locked the OSD.
     
  35. etienne51

    etienne51 [H]Lite

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    Yes you're right. Just connect your monitor back to the computer, start WinDAS, open the Procedures list for example, and close it. Now your OSD should be unlocked.

    Just try to avoid doing this in the future, it's not good practice, and your monitor firmware will be left in an inconsistent state.
     
  36. MattyC

    MattyC Gawd

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    The FW900 was an awesome piece of hardware, but I still cannot believe this thread is still going!

    Pretty crazy to see it still live after all this time. We need a matching IBM Model M thread ;)
     
  37. igsux3

    igsux3 [H]Lite

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    I wonder if anyone ever tried anti-glare coating like this:

    http://www.amazon.com/3M-Anti-Glare-23-0-Inch-Widescreen-Monitor/dp/B00IQCRO12
    http://www.amazon.com/Kuzy-Anti-Glare-Protector-Thunderbolt-ANTI-GLARE/dp/B00NBB3M2S

    Of course properly sized. Day is getting longer and longer at northern hemisphere and this is my first summer without AG-Coating. I'm getting tired of sitting in dark room :D Any chance they will work with FW900?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-JcyOKAsNY

    Would foil like this affect CRT same way as LCD panel?

    Oh and would such anti-reflective affect calibration process?
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2015
  38. spacediver

    spacediver 2[H]4U

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    not really. Means you will probably have to run the tube slightly higher to achieve same luminance. And if the film introduces any tint, you should still be able to hit your chromaticity targets.
     
  39. jbltecnicspro

    jbltecnicspro [H]ardness Supreme

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    I'm going to go against the grain here and suggest NEC Patterngen. It's like Nokia Monitor Test, but will run on 64 bit machines with no problem. Also, its crosshatch patterns are very close to what my QD generates. It also does white balance and steps through lower-valued IRE's as well. (Right-clicking in the White Balance screen takes you through 30 IRE, 70 IRE and 100 IRE I believe - someone needs to verify though). It also does Pure Red, Pure Blue, and Pure Green. If you need a pattern generator on the fly, NEC Patterngen rocks.
     
  40. flod

    flod Gawd

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    those are matte surfaces and will look absolutely terrible on a crt (because the phosphors are ~1cm underneath the glass)

    like this but worse
    http://www.amazon.com/review/R3H16K65RAML1J/ref=cm_cr_rdp_perm?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B00IQCRO12