2012 MacPro

[Richneerd]

$1300? That's a pretty reasonable price. I'd upgrade to one of those temporarily if I could get one at that price.

You can, check out gainsaver, my wife just bought one for herself, $1100 after shipping. Now I'm on eBay looking for another w3680.

-rich

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

Given that desktops are the only truly expandable systems and they are all but dead, I fail to the the reason for the gripe about Apple. Memory is cheap; just max it out if you have a concern.

Memory is cheap...

...except when you are buying a macbook, it would seem. They tack on $100 per 4GB...

And the desktop is nowhere near dead.

It may not be growing at the same clip as laptops and other mobile products, but from all data I can find sales increased until ~2007 when they just kinda plateaued. They haven't lost any ground since, and are still selling at higher levels than ever before 2006-2007, they just haven't grown much since.

That's not dead.

 

[Champ]

Are the new MB Pro Retina going for $2k+ or $1xxx

 

[Zumino Zufeilon]

Are the new MB Pro Retina going for $2k+ or $1xxx

Essentially 2k+

I "think" a student can get one for $1999, but that's $2k, so who cares.

But, at 2k you get a 'full speed mobile' quadcore Ivy Bridge i7, 256gb SSD, 8gb Ram, a 15" Laptop that's under 4.5lbs, and has the Retina screen.

Even leaving out the Retina screen. It's not a bad bargin. The full speed processor in a small box is nice, and tacking on the Retina screen is nicer


That said, this thread is about the MacPro, the Apple Server-grade hardware desktop tower.

 

[Red Falcon]

Also, a 2.5 year old card on a 3,800 $ tower - wow.

Yeah, that is pretty pathetic.
At least include an HD6000 series card in the new systems.

HD5000 is old tech from 2009.
Why does a $3500+ MacPro have such an old card?

If Apple decided to put in a higher end GPU as the base option, it would come with a higher price tag, so I don't really see the issue there either.

This has nothing to do with higher end, it has to do with tired old tech in an ultra high priced, high performance system.
I would not consider an HD5870 a high-end GPU by today's standards.

It certainly was high-end in 2009, but is more of a mid-range GPU by this point.
Not to mention, adding a second HD5770, which is low-end by modern standards, is an additional $250.

Or better yet, removing the HD5770 and installing an HD5870 adds an additional $200.
I'm sorry, but an HD5770 is worth $80 tops, and an HD5870 is worth about $150; anything more than that is a complete gouge.

Sorry, but Apple is hardly justified in charging such absurd prices for nearly 3-year GPUs.

 

[AQ_OC]

Memory is cheap...

...except when you are buying a macbook, it would seem. They tack on $100 per 4GB...

And the desktop is nowhere near dead.

It may not be growing at the same clip as laptops and other mobile products, but from all data I can find sales increased until ~2007 when they just kinda plateaued. They haven't lost any ground since, and are still selling at higher levels than ever before 2006-2007, they just haven't grown much since.

That's not dead.

Yes it is.

 

[Zumino Zufeilon]

Yes it is.

Yes, yes it is.

Remember, the vast majority of people buy their computers at Best Buy/Dell/etc.

Go into Best Buy, how many desktops do you even see?

The desktop has gone the way of the enthusiast. It's not dead, but it's pretty damn close, and it is dying.

 

[Nocens]

No case redesign means sharp corners still. Try resting your arms on the case and you will get huge red indentations on your arms.

 

[AQ_OC]

Yes, yes it is.

Remember, the vast majority of people buy their computers at Best Buy/Dell/etc.

Go into Best Buy, how many desktops do you even see?

The desktop has gone the way of the enthusiast. It's not dead, but it's pretty damn close, and it is dying.

It's like dead man walking.

I'm an enthusiast and will continue to own a desktop or two. But we are the fringe. I sure some vendors will continue to support the fringe crowd, but the mainstreamers will not. And I don't consider an AIO to be a true desktop. If it ain't got several card slots, it ain't a true desktop.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

Yes, yes it is.

Remember, the vast majority of people buy their computers at Best Buy/Dell/etc.

Go into Best Buy, how many desktops do you even see?

The desktop has gone the way of the enthusiast. It's not dead, but it's pretty damn close, and it is dying.

It's tough to find good figures on this, but I did some googling and came up with the following from a market research firm that looked reliable.

About 28.2 million desktop computers sold in the U.S. alone in 2011.

63.1 million mobile computers sold in 2011.

(I have omitted server sales from the above)

Mobile computers certainly have grown faster and gotten a bigger market share than desktop computers, but with 30 million units sold in a year, the desktop is certainly not dead. Almost 10% of the U.S. population got one (either at work or at home) in 2011.

And that 28.2 figure is only expected to shrink to ~27 million units by 2015.

Just because there are more laptops than desktops sold each year doesn't mean that one is dead.

More android devices sell in a year than IOS devices. Is IOS dead?

Apparently just over 30% of computer buyers in 2011 still thought that the desktop was a better choice for them, likely for a variety of reasons (gaming, expandability, performance advantage, ergonomic benefits, cost compared to laptops, etc.)

- Ergonomics: The ergonomic issue is one that may partially be negated by dockable laptops, like Dells business models, but the other reasons for choosing a desktop aren't going anywhere. (I always wondered why Apple has yet to make a good docking system.) There just isn't any denying at all, that working on a laptop is a painful experience, especially if done for long periods of time. Whenever I spend an extended amount of time on a laptop, I find myself squinty, with cramps, aches and pains due to the awkward positioning, etc.

- Expandability: Even with thunderbolt, there are plenty of applications for which you really just need a good old fashioned expansion slot. Computer enthusiasts, gamers and businesses with process or workstation IO needs are all going to fall into customer groups that this is valuable for.

- Performance advantages: Anyone who does any kind of number crunching will know that desktop CPU's are typically clocked much higher than their mobile counterparts. The samegoes for GPU's. Computer enthusiasts, businesses withneeds for number crunching workstations, and gamers, all again fall into the category of customers that buy for these reasons.

- Gaming: Playing games on a laptop is a joke. Even with the expensive so called "gaming laptops" the performance and overall experience is significantly worse than on a desktop. Gamers will continue to overwhelmingly pick desktops.

- Cost: For price conscious consumers and businesses, desktops are much much cheaper for the same level of performance. This is especially true when you consider people who keep their existing monitor, and just replace the computer. You can get brand new desktop for about $200 if you shop around, and it will be a machine that is more than capable of doing typical office work, as well as browsing and email.



I guess my point is this. Desktops may not be dominant like they once were, but no longer being dominant, and being dead/dying are two COMPLETELY different things.

I think desktops are here to stay for some time, as there is a subgroup of the population that prefer them for one reason or another. Personally, if not for the fact that I have a work issued laptop, I wouldn't have a laptop at all. I find them so annoying to use, that whenever I have any real work to use, I either dock it at my work desk, and use it like a desktop, or use my desktop at home.

 

[StryderxX]

The Mac Pro is a low volume item for Apple. To keep their revenue up they continue to focus on what sells. iPhone, iPad, Macbook and iPod are the money makers so a majority of their R&D is going to those products. I'm sure that Apple will refresh the Mac Pro at some point but I don't think it's high on the "to do" list.

 

[AQ_OC]

It's tough to find good figures on this, but I did some googling and came up with the following from a market research firm that looked reliable.

About 28.2 million desktop computers sold in the U.S. alone in 2011.

63.1 million mobile computers sold in 2011.

(I have omitted server sales from the above)

Mobile computers certainly have grown faster and gotten a bigger market share than desktop computers, but with 30 million units sold in a year, the desktop is certainly not dead. Almost 10% of the U.S. population got one (either at work or at home) in 2011.

And that 28.2 figure is only expected to shrink to ~27 million units by 2015.

Just because there are more laptops than desktops sold each year doesn't mean that one is dead.

More android devices sell in a year than IOS devices. Is IOS dead?

Apparently just over 30% of computer buyers in 2011 still thought that the desktop was a better choice for them, likely for a variety of reasons (gaming, expandability, performance advantage, ergonomic benefits, cost compared to laptops, etc.)

I don't think anyone here needs you to tell them the advantage of a desktop. But the fact of the matter is there are entire generations of users who have no clue about a desktop, they think of computers as mobile devices only. Phones, tablets, laptops, and even AIO are the rage today.

Not only are desktops not dominant, the are completely out of the mindshare of zillions a new users. They are dead man walking. And if you didn't segment out AIO in your numbers, you are misrepresenting the size of the "desktop" market. Increasingly, desktops are special-purpose machines, niche markets at best. Gamers, sure. 50+'ers like me who are not gamers but simply appreciate desktops more than laptops.

 

[MrCrispy]

For the average user, the desktop IS dead. They don't need to add storage, memory or peripherals. These are things that were needed a few years ago to bring a notebook performance up to desktop standards, now everything is built in.

The only remaining hurdles are the keyboard and screen size. And it turns out most people are perfectly happy with laptop keyboards and a 15" widescreen, while tech enthusiasts and professionals are the ones buying 26" monitors.

The size, portability and convenience is something a desktop simply cannot match. Nobody who buys a desktop every upgrades the parts unless they have a techie friend help them. They only bought a desktop because it was cheaper, and now that is no longer the case.

 

[StryderxX]

For the average user, the desktop IS dead. They don't need to add storage, memory or peripherals. These are things that were needed a few years ago to bring a notebook performance up to desktop standards, now everything is built in.

The only remaining hurdles are the keyboard and screen size. And it turns out most people are perfectly happy with laptop keyboards and a 15" widescreen, while tech enthusiasts and professionals are the ones buying 26" monitors.

The size, portability and convenience is something a desktop simply cannot match. Nobody who buys a desktop every upgrades the parts unless they have a techie friend help them. They only bought a desktop because it was cheaper, and now that is no longer the case.

QFT! Based on current technology the new Mac Pro is a MacBook Pro (Retina) attached to a 27" Thunderbolt display. The days of having a massive tower stuffed with CPUs and hard drives are coming to an end soon.

 

[Red Falcon]

QFT! Based on current technology the new Mac Pro is a MacBook Pro (Retina) attached to a 27" Thunderbolt display. The days of having a massive tower stuffed with CPUs and hard drives are coming to an end soon.

Not necessarily. Many individuals who work with HD video editing need far more processing power and storage than any laptop can hope to offer.

Yes, for the average user, the desktop is not showing any growth in sales.
But if the desktop were dead, or even dying, you would not see them for sale anywhere, yet we still do.

I know what you guys are saying about portable devices, and they are very popular, but that paradigm shift hasn't quite happened yet.