$2000: TV, 5.1, General use HTPC

T

Team Obi Juan

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After showing my friend my setup, he wants one of his own. Though he is starting completely from scratch.

1) What will you be doing with this PC? Web browsing, streaming netflix, watching blu ray, MAYBE light gaming, watching TV, MAYBE some professional engineering programs (Catia).
2) What's your budget? $2000 shipped with tax.
3) Where do you live?Fort Worth, TX. Would prefer to use Newegg and/or Amazon. Probably best to pick up TV locally at Best Buy. Most large retailers are available, including Fry's, but no Microcenter.
4) What exact parts do you need for that budget? 46"+ 1080p HDTV, webcam, wireless kb/m, TV Tuner for OTA HD or cable (unsure how it works with cable boxes), blu ray burner and then literally everything else required for a computer. Aftermarket HSF if needed. Form factor of the case needs to either be an HTPC style case or perhaps a mITX case. Basically needs to fit in a standard media cabinet.
5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? None
6) Will you be overclocking?No
7) What size monitor do you have and/or plan to have?46"+ 1080p HDTV
8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?Within next 3 weeks
9) What features do you need in a motherboard? He has shown and interest in getting Wifi so he has the option to tether the PC to his 4G phone; I told him this is stupid and to just get internet. I think he just wants that option.
10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? None. Need Windows 7 64 bit.

He moves into the new place in 2 weeks so we have not decided on the audio route. Space / ability to run wires might be an issues so I may end up just getting him a receiver and 2.0 bookshelves or floorstanding speakers. Else we'll go the HTIB route. But that also goes into the budget. Budget is semi-firm. Probably wouldn't take much arm twisting to go up $200 or so.

Preliminary shopping has me thinking $800-900 ish for the TV, <$800 on the PC, and the remainder on the audio. Currently he does not play games but if I'm building this, I think he should have the option. Doesn't need a badass video card but a modern one can't hurt plus HD audio passthrough is a must. I'm partial to AMD, but would go Intel if the $/performance is there within the budget.

Thanks for all help, I realize this is a big request.
 
I will get the ball rolling on the PC:


$99 - Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 64-bit
$65 - Microsoft Black 2.4 GHz Wireless Comfort Desktop 5000
$60 AR - Patriot Gamer 2 Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600
$90 (Amazon) - SILVERSTONE Black Aluminum/0.8mm SECC Grandia GD05B
$90 - ASUS Black Blu-ray Burner SATA BW-12B1ST/BLK/G/AS
$87 - SAPPHIRE Radeon HD 6570 100324L Video Card
$30 - Microsoft LifeCam VX-3000 WebCam
$44 - Western Digital Caviar Blue 500GB 3.5" SATA 3.0Gb/s Internal Hard Drive
$120 - Crucial M4 CT064M4SSD2 2.5" MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)
$35 - Antec EarthWatts Green EA-380D Green 380W Continuous power Power Supply
$101 - BIOSTAR A880G+ Micro ATX AMD Motherboard & AMD Athlon II X2 250 3.0GHz Socket AM3 65W Dual-Core Desktop Processor


This is $836 shipped, but I haven't picked a TV Tuner.


1) Will the PSU be enough?
2) What's the deal with TV tuner cards + cable TV such as Uverse? Due to the board (that I own myself), I need a PCI card. I own this one: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815260032 and it works great with OTA HD. But I do not know how it interfaces with cable.
3) The SSD is optional and a placeholder. I definitely can find cheaper than that. The $100 40GB Intel is currently out of stock so it won't go in the cart. I actually just got in on the Crucial 64GB for $90 shell shocker deal.
4) Should he really want wifi, in the future we can just add a USB wifi card. Or internal PCI because it appears the GPU is single slot.

Starting completely from scratch leaves less budget room for the guts like CPU and Mobo.
 
OK well I realize I asked a lot.

If someone could at least tell me if the PSU is enough for the rig and how a TV Tuner card interfaces with a cable box. Thanks.
 
Team Obi Juan said:
OK well I realize I asked a lot.

If someone could at least tell me if the PSU is enough for the rig and how a TV Tuner card interfaces with a cable box. Thanks.
Click to expand...

TV tuner only gets the unencrypted channels.



If you want all your channels, you have to go cablecard.
 
Uverse is technically not cable. It is IPTV, so they are not compatible with cablecard. I think the only way to get premium channels on a computer with IPTV is with a cablebox paired with a Hauppauge HD PVR. That said, if you have Comcast or Cox or an actual cable company, then getting a cablecard TV tuner would work fine. Any other TV tuner (non-cable card) will not allow you to get the encrypted channels. Keep in mind, a couple years ago, they used to only encrypt the premium channels, but now-a-days, most cable companies encrypt everything except for the local network channels, home shopping, and cspan. Though this varies from location to location.

My comments on your build. 8GB ram is overkill for what you say you need it for. I'd drop that down to 4GB, unless you are using some non-HTPC memory intensive software on this system.

Do you need to burn blu-rays? I guess it's a nice feature, but I personally wouldn't pay that much unless I was sure I was going to use it. You can always upgrade later if you really need that function and prices will be cheaper.

Solid state drives can be nice, especially with fast on/off times, but if you leave the computer on all the time, that shouldn't matter. Once playing a movie or watcing TV, there will be no improvement, and they are still priced at a premium.

I personally think the power supply is fine, and most people here would agree, but I know the wizzes at Tech Support Forum don't like that brand and would recommend a minimum of 550W. http://www.techsupportforum.com/forums/f210/power-supply-information-and-selection-192217.html I think that advice is insane personally, but they probably know a lot more about computers than I.

Finally, I know you have the Microsoft keyboard and mouse, but ever consider a remote?
 
I'd go with SB instead. A 2400S chip is a low wattage quad core, but still has lots of power when needed, but is very low power draw and heat under normal use. You could also go 2100T, for a 35W dual core chip, but I think overall, long term, the 2400S is a better route. If you go H67 chipset, you can do all the HD video and audio bitsteaming right off the motherboard, meaning you don't need to get a discreet video card, of course the board and case below will support a discreet video card as well.

As far as tuners go, to record subscription HD TV, you need a good tuner card, such as the Ceton one below. These cards aren't cheap at all ($300), and requires a cable subscription. If the person is happy with just OTA HD, you can shave off a good $250 from the build.

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Thanks for the comments.

1) The savings between 8GB and 4GB isn't worth it IMO. 8GB for $60 is ridiculously cheap for many years of future proofing.

2) Still undecided on the SSD. I think with the low ish power requirements of the rig, it may just stay on all the time.

3) TV tuner sounds like a pain. I may just get the TV tuner I linked (Kworld) and convince him to just do OTA HD.

4) As far as burning blu rays... no, I'm not sure he will ever burn a blu ray. But I imagine he will want to burn a DVD and does want to watch blu rays... so there you go. ;) I personally own just a reader. (that I haven't used yet because special software is needed)
 
Canna, thanks for the post. That tuner is crazy expensive. Do you know if the onboard video of that motherboard can play blu rays?
 
Team Obi Juan said:
Also, will onboard bitstream HD codecs?
Click to expand...
yea, SB will. But you said you might want low-end gaming. In that case you definitely want to stick with the discrete card. You'll be getting much better performance out of something like what you put in your first post (6570). I say stay with AMD for the CPU for now. the SB is powerful but in a cost sensitive situation where top performance is, at best, a third-tier concern (after basic function and price) the AMD hard to touch... I mean, look at canna's build, the mobo alone is more than the AMD CPU/mobo combo...

Skip the SSD/Blue combo and get a 2TB green drive or something for less than half the price. He'll appreciate the storage if/when hes storing movies and TV on there andthe performance benefit is negligible in practical use.

other than that I have no problem with that first build.. the PSU should be fine since this machine shouldnt draw more than 200w under decent load and way less than that most other times (cue danny bui saying this PSU sucks and he should get a seasonic :p)
 
Activate: AMD said:
yea, SB will. But you said you might want low-end gaming.
Click to expand...

Would the original AMD combo do that as well? Also, I don't think he'll be doing any gaming. So I'm thinking more and more that onboard is OK as long as it will bitstream HD codecs and playback blu ray smoothly.
 
Intel build:

$100 - LITE-ON Black 12X Blu-ray Burner with Blu-ray 3D feature SATA IHBS112-29
$90 - Western Digital Caviar Black WD1002FAEX 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive
$90 (Amazon) - SILVERSTONE Black Aluminum / 0.8mm SECC Grandia Series GD05B
$201 - Intel Core i5-2400S Sandy Bridge 2.5GHz (3.3GHz Turbo Boost) LGA 1155 65W Quad-Core Desktop Processor BX80623I52400S
$60 - Patriot Gamer 2 Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory
$65 - Microsoft CSD-00001 Black USB 2.4 GHz Wireless Ergonomic Comfort Desktop 5000
$75 - ASRock H61M/U3S3 LGA 1155 Intel H61 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Micro ATX Intel Motherboard
$100 - Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 64-bit
$40 - Antec EarthWatts Green EA-430D Green 430W Continuous power ATX12V v2.3 / EPS 12V 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Active PFC Power Supply
$47 - KWorld Hybrid HDTV Card PC150-U PCI Interface


This comes out to $882 shipped.
 
Team Obi Juan said:
Would the original AMD combo do that as well? Also, I don't think he'll be doing any gaming. So I'm thinking more and more that onboard is OK as long as it will bitstream HD codecs and playback blu ray smoothly.
Click to expand...
No. the new Fusion APU's should do that but they're not out yet.

Skip the 2400S and just get the 2100 if you go the intel route. the quad is overkill and its too much money. Bascially, if all hes going to do is watch movies, then it doesn't matter how much CPU power you put it.. enough is enough. skip the WD black and get a samsung F3 if you really want a 7200rpm 1TB (faster and 30$ cheaper), or go with a hitachi 5k3000 for the same price (slower but 2x capacity)

You could also still do the AMD route with your first combo, add a discrete card (GT430) and still probably come out cheaper for zero degredation of usable performance. Personally, I'd rather do this.
 
Team Obi Juan said:
Thanks for the comments.



4) As far as burning blu rays... no, I'm not sure he will ever burn a blu ray. But I imagine he will want to burn a DVD and does want to watch blu rays... so there you go. ;) I personally own just a reader. (that I haven't used yet because special software is needed)
Click to expand...

I think virtually every Blu-Ray reader out there will burn DVD's. They are usually called combo drives. No need for a Blu-Ray burner to burn DVD's.
 
Activate: AMD said:
I say stay with AMD for the CPU for now. the SB is powerful but in a cost sensitive situation where top performance is, at best, a third-tier concern (after basic function and price) the AMD hard to touch... I mean, look at canna's build, the mobo alone is more than the AMD CPU/mobo combo...
Click to expand...
You're right performance isn't top concern, but in a movie/entertainment center environment, heat generation, noise, and power consumption are real concerns, probably the top concerns. Sandy bridge low power CPUs come through in spades there. Lower heat generation means lower fan speeds, less noise. Also, it's not that much more expensive than an AMD build, even with the quad Sandy Bridge since he won't need a discreet video card to display HD video or bitstream HD audio. Also, by not having a discreet video card and everything being done on the actual CPU, he's avoiding another heat generating component. If he drops the Quad Sandy for a 2100T Sandy, the Sandy bridge comes out cheaper, and I'd take a Sandy Bridge over a 2 core Athlon II any day of the week.

$2K (or less) isn't ultra cost sensitive. At that point, it's worth it to spend a little bit more (we're talking $100 or less) to get a way more powerful machine that will last a lot longer.

Also, since he will be using it to record TV (from what I gather), if he is converting video, the Sandy Bridge chips are way faster at transcoding video than the current AMD lineups. Sandy Bridge chips are just that much better in dealing with media files in general.

See here: http://www.anandtech.com/show/4083/...core-i7-2600k-i5-2500k-core-i3-2100-tested/16

Activate: AMD said:
Skip the SSD/Blue combo and get a 2TB green drive or something for less than half the price. He'll appreciate the storage if/when hes storing movies and TV on there andthe performance benefit is negligible in practical use.
Click to expand...

Yeah, a SSD is really nice for a Media PC. All of your media center menus are really snappy, and your HD can spin down and only come on when you record or playback, reducing noise when your PC is just sitting there doing nothing.
 
Think I've decided on i3 since bitstreaming HD audio codecs without a discrete GPU is important. I'll update the list tomorrow. I think I will go with the 2100, non T. The i5 looks sweet but it comes with a much higher price.

Going to stay away from SSD for the time being.
 
$125 - Intel Core i3-2100 Sandy Bridge 3.1GHz LGA 1155 65W Dual-Core Desktop Processor BX80623I32100
$75 - ASRock H61M/U3S3 LGA 1155 Intel H61 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Micro ATX Intel Motherboard
$90 - Western Digital Caviar Black WD1002FAEX 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive
$45 - ASUS Combo TV Card My Cinema-EHC3-150/NAQ/FM/AV/RC PCI-Express x1 Interface
$100 - ASUS Black Blu-ray Burner SATA BW-12B1ST/BLK/G/AS - OEM
$40 - Antec EarthWatts Green EA-430D Green 430W Continuous power ATX12V v2.3 / EPS 12V 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Active PFC Power Supply
$60 - Patriot Gamer 2 Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory
$90 (Amazon) - SILVERSTONE Black Aluminum / 0.8mm SECC Grandia Series GD05B
$65 - Microsoft CSD-00001 Black USB 2.4 GHz Wireless Ergonomic Comfort Desktop 5000
$100 - Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 64-bit
$20 - Rosewill RCM-8163 True 1.3 M Effective Pixels USB 2.0 WebCam


This comes out to $817 shipped.
 
canna said:
$2K (or less) isn't ultra cost sensitive. At that point, it's worth it to spend a little bit more (we're talking $100 or less) to get a way more powerful machine that will last a lot longer.
Click to expand...
$2k IS cost sensitive because its for the total system (TV, speakers, HTPC.. everything) I agree with your other points, but the idea that you need a more powerful machine to "last longer" is kind of silly. bottom line is that it needs to be able to play the current codecs. Any substantial improvements to video quality or features or whatever are almost 100% going to require an update in hardware ANYWAY. So great, you spend $100 more on a quad core, but now you want 3D output... well your quad sandy IGP doesnt support that, so you have to buy a discrete card anyway. As long as your GPU is capable of accelerating the content, CPU speed is almost irrelevant (case in point, my zacate plays BD's perfectly). Plus, if you're really gonna be a snob about it, SB is flawed from a video playback perspective since it cant do 23.976 FPS playback.

canna said:
Also, since he will be using it to record TV (from what I gather), if he is converting video, the Sandy Bridge chips are way faster at transcoding video than the current AMD lineups. Sandy Bridge chips are just that much better in dealing with media files in general.
Click to expand...
maybe, but I'm guessing he won't be.. doesn't sound like this friend will be doing anything other than playing back the original recording. I don't doubt that its faster, of course it is, i'm not debating that. I'm just saying that this guy would be better off spending the extra cash on speakers or something. Which is more useful: spending $100 on a CPU and having an extra $100 to put towards decent speakers, or getting a $200 CPU thats overkill and using shitty HTIB speakers?



canna said:
Yeah, a SSD is really nice for a Media PC. All of your media center menus are really snappy, and your HD can spin down and only come on when you record or playback, reducing noise when your PC is just sitting there doing nothing.
Click to expand...
yea, I have one in mine, so I know what I"m talking about from experience when I say that I'd rather have 2TB of storage space than slightly snappier menus. SSD for an HTPC is probably the most overrated upgrade out there, especially for the money. If you can hear a 5400 RPM green drive over whatever you're watching, you're doing it wrong. If you can hear it over the fans in your case, you're trying too hard

Team Obi Wan:

Looks like a nice build
 
Team Obi Juan said:
Does SATA 3 not gain real world performance? The WD Black and the mobo are both 6 Gbps. The Samsung is 3 Gbps. No big deal?
Click to expand...

No big deal. hard drive are barely saturating SATA 1.5Gb/s nowadays let alone 3Gb/s. When it comes to regular hard drives, SATA 6.0Gb/s is just a marketing gimmick. SATA 6.0Gb/s really matters when you're using SSDs.
 
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