2 6850's vs 1 6950?

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william_fontaine

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Title says it all, for the same price I can get 2 6850's and CF them, or a single 6950. Looking to upgrade for Deus Ex HR, Skyrim, and etc, with the goal of keeping this upgrade for 3 or so years. What say you?
 
william_fontaine said:
Title says it all, for the same price I can get 2 6850's and CF them, or a single 6950. Looking to upgrade for Deus Ex HR, Skyrim, and etc, with the goal of keeping this upgrade for 3 or so years. What say you?
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Two 6850 will be much faster than one 6950.
 
I would go with a 6950 because of the 2gb of memory. Also, you plan on keeping this setup for 3 year, you can always add another 6950 in the future.

Question - what is the spec on your sig and the resolution of the monitor?
 
That's what I suspected. I wonder about temps and power consumption.

Monitor is just a single 1920x1200 Soyo Topaz right now, but I am thinking about getting 1 or 2 more of them (probably Dell U2412M's). And the box I currently have is from '08 but I'm looking to upgrade to:

- 2600k i7
- decent CF mobo (haven't looked into that yet)
- 8GB RAM
- maybe new PSU to replace 550W

and i'll keep my existing case, soundcard, and SSD/HDD drives.
 
Yeah I'm thinking more with Skyrim and mods and huge texture packs and stuff. I suppose I could start with a single 6850 or 6870 and then see later whether I should get an extra one, or upgrade to 7000-series when it comes out.
 
william_fontaine said:
Yeah I'm thinking more with Skyrim and mods and huge texture packs and stuff. I suppose I could start with a single 6850 or 6870 and then see later whether I should get an extra one, or upgrade to 7000-series when it comes out.
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Depending on how anal you are about pushing every detail to the max and running high amounts of AA, a single 6870 is honestly a great card that is generally only about 10-15% slower than a 6950 and can run most settings pretty high. At your resolution, you should very rarely be restricted by the 1GB of memory in current games. 6850/6870's in crossfire will kill a single 6950 in performance, but although I have yet to experience it, some people have issues with multi gpu setups so a single card is often less trouble/work.

If you need something right now, I honestly agree you should consider a single HD 6850 or 6870, since they are pretty cheap right now with rebates/free items and perform pretty well at 1920x1200. Sell it once the 7xxx cards come out since they likely will be a fair bit faster than the current gen cards.
 
I have a 6850 and I played DE:HR on high at 1920x1080 and I get pretty good frame rates(50-60). I would go with a single 6870 and go from there. The 6850 is good but 6870 have more juice. Hell, 6870 is cheaper when I first got my 6850 back in November last year($200 USD btw for an xfx 6850).
 
For the longest better performance solution without spending another dollar in the next 3 years you can get the 2 6870s, however you will NEED to get a bigger power supply than that 550 Watt you have to run both of them.

If you get a single 6950 you can keep the 550 watt power supply and add a newer power supply and 6950 later for crossfire.

From what I gather it seems to me that you want to spend the money on the solution now and not worry about it for 3 years, so then the answer is the crossfire 6870 setup along with a newer power supply.
 
I would go for a single 6950, given that you want to hold onto this setup for 3 years.

If at any point a game comes along that you cannot play well, with two 6850s you are already maxed out and cannot go any further. (Same with 6870s). With a single 6950, you can still expand down the road. With a quality 550W PSU you should be okay with a single 6950. You can upgrade later to a bigger PSU if you decide to go CFX.

Additionally, a 6950 will provide 2GB of memory instead of 1GB.

The 6950 is just a more forward-thinking purchase.
 
Rizen said:
I would go for a single 6950, given that you want to hold onto this setup for 3 years.

If at any point a game comes along that you cannot play well, with two 6850s you are already maxed out and cannot go any further. (Same with 6870s). With a single 6950, you can still expand down the road. With a quality 550W PSU you should be okay with a single 6950. You can upgrade later to a bigger PSU if you decide to go CFX.

Additionally, a 6950 will provide 2GB of memory instead of 1GB.

The 6950 is just a more forward-thinking purchase.
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Yeah the more I look at possible builds, the more that makes sense. I think a 6950 could keep me going for 3 years, and if I get a CF mobo I could throw another one in + a new PSU if needed.
 
I was thinking about this for my GF's rig also. With out cheap both cards are now after rebate I decided on the 6950 to give me more room to upgrade in the future(crossfire).
 
A single 6870 is a fantastic buy at 1920 resolution, it will give you very playable framerates in all current games at that resolution with all the settings on maximum at 50-60fps with V-sync enabled. The only two games I've ever encountered that can bring a single 6870 down to low 30fps is Witcher 2 and Metro 2033 at their highest settings. If those games are that appealing to you and you want to play them at their absolute best settings at 60fps, you will need two 6870's in crossfire. A single 6950 or 6970 isn't going to cut it in those games either.

IMHO, a single or dual 6870 setup is the way to go unless you're playing at 2560 resolution in which case you will need the 2GB of memory on a 6950 or 6970 card in some games. At 1920, its really just a poor choice to use a single 6950 or 6970.
 
Rizen said:
I would go for a single 6950, given that you want to hold onto this setup for 3 years.

If at any point a game comes along that you cannot play well, with two 6850s you are already maxed out and cannot go any further. (Same with 6870s). With a single 6950, you can still expand down the road. With a quality 550W PSU you should be okay with a single 6950. You can upgrade later to a bigger PSU if you decide to go CFX.

Additionally, a 6950 will provide 2GB of memory instead of 1GB.

The 6950 is just a more forward-thinking purchase.
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A 6950 will be outdated by the time you need a second 6950 to play games, its not forward thinking at 1920 resolution, its a waste of money. If the OP wants to play at 1920 resolution now and isn't going beyond that resolution for the next 2-3 years, there's no need to waste money on any card higher than a 6870 or two right now if he wants the best performance at that resolution.

There's really no such thing as forward thinking in the PC world when it comes to enthusiasts, we all claim we want to buy the best value for the future, but the bottom line is that every one of us get tempted when the next generation of hardware is available and shows noticeable improvements over the previous generation. My best advice is not necessarily to think about about future proofing but find the best value for what you want to play today and in the immediate future(1 year) because 9 out 10 times, you'll sell the hardware within a year or two and upgrade again to the next generation of hardware. People that hold on to their hardware for 2,3,4 years just aren't the kind of people on these wbesites keeping up with the latest PC hardware and software innovation.
 
Ah heck with it, went with a 6950. Mainly for 2 reasons - I'm seriously considering setting up a triple-screen setup soon, and the micro-stuttering issues associated with CF or SLI on lower-end gives me pause (http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1631366). I figure this card will keep me happy for 3 solid years just like the 4870 did, so that's what I got. Thanks for the input all.
 
Blkout said:
A 6950 will be outdated by the time you need a second 6950 to play games, its not forward thinking at 1920 resolution, its a waste of money. If the OP wants to play at 1920 resolution now and isn't going beyond that resolution for the next 2-3 years, there's no need to waste money on any card higher than a 6870 or two right now if he wants the best performance at that resolution.

There's really no such thing as forward thinking in the PC world when it comes to enthusiasts, we all claim we want to buy the best value for the future, but the bottom line is that every one of us get tempted when the next generation of hardware is available and shows noticeable improvements over the previous generation. My best advice is not necessarily to think about about future proofing but find the best value for what you want to play today and in the immediate future(1 year) because 9 out 10 times, you'll sell the hardware within a year or two and upgrade again to the next generation of hardware. People that hold on to their hardware for 2,3,4 years just aren't the kind of people on these wbesites keeping up with the latest PC hardware and software innovation.
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lolz I play at 1080 and MY card ( GTX 570) gives low fps in shogun 2 and other games (under 40 )............
 
grilledcheese said:
lolz I play at 1080 and MY card ( GTX 570) gives low fps in shogun 2 and other games (under 40 )............
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Since you quoted my post, I'm not sure what point you were trying to make since my post has nothing to do with a GTX 570. Maybe I missed the point though...:confused:
 
If you are into Skyrim and huge texture packs get a 6950 2GB because a 6870 1GB in crossfire just isn't enough VRAM. I remember in Oblivion that I was maxing out my 5870's 1GB of VRAM easily with a few high res texture packs.

The same deal goes for when you apply lots of AA or upgrade to triple monitors in the future. If your current card is stuck with 1GB of ram, even adding a 2nd card won't help you in those high resolution, high AA, big texture pack situations.

I am playing with two 6950s in CF right now and I have no microstutter in Witcher 2 or Deus Ex (all I have installed right now).
 
Spare-Flair said:
If you are into Skyrim and huge texture packs get a 6950 2GB because a 6870 1GB in crossfire just isn't enough VRAM. I remember in Oblivion that I was maxing out my 5870's 1GB of VRAM easily with a few high res texture packs.

The same deal goes for when you apply lots of AA or upgrade to triple monitors in the future. If your current card is stuck with 1GB of ram, even adding a 2nd card won't help you in those high resolution, high AA, big texture pack situations.

I am playing with two 6950s in CF right now and I have no microstutter in Witcher 2 or Deus Ex (all I have installed right now).
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I'm sure texture packs can be created that will require 4GB of video memory too but at some point you have to draw the line. At 1920 resolution, 1GB is enough for all but the most extreme user mods. Just not worth the added expense of buying a 6950 2GB over a 6870 1GB at 1920 resoluition for possibly one game that MIGHT have an issue with a user mod, not the game as it was originally released. I guess if you only played Oblivion with extreme texture mods it might be worth the extra cost but that's going to be a very low percentage of people compared to those that play most other games. I just don't see that its very cost effective to spend that much more money for one game that MIGHT need more than 1GB of memory with a user created texture mod.

Its a fair point, but a very small percecntage of people will ever feel the need to justify the expense for one game or two.
 
Blkout said:
I'm sure texture packs can be created that will require 4GB of video memory too but at some point you have to draw the line. At 1920 resolution, 1GB is enough for all but the most extreme user mods. Just not worth the added expense of buying a 6950 2GB over a 6870 1GB at 1920 resoluition for possibly one game that MIGHT have an issue with a user mod, not the game as it was originally released. I guess if you only played Oblivion with extreme texture mods it might be worth the extra cost but that's going to be a very low percentage of people compared to those that play most other games. I just don't see that its very cost effective to spend that much more money for one game that MIGHT need more than 1GB of memory with a user created texture mod.

Its a fair point, but a very small percecntage of people will ever feel the need to justify the expense for one game or two.
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I actually modded the crap out of Oblivion including the Qarl's texture pack which required 1GB VRAM, and I'll probably do the same to Skyrim once they come out with some packs.
 
william_fontaine said:
I actually modded the crap out of Oblivion including the Qarl's texture pack which required 1GB VRAM, and I'll probably do the same to Skyrim once they come out with some packs.
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That's cool, but again that's one, possibly two games out of dozens of popular games that MAY perform better with more than 1GB of video memory when using user-mod texture packs. Most consumers can't justify spending more for a 2GB video card for that and I certainly wouldn't.
 
I have 2x6850, my buddy has a 2gb 6950. We both game a 1920x1080 and I get better results. If you are gaming at 1080p, the 2x6850 will be faster. If you are gaming at higher resolutions and need more Vram, then the 6950 is a better choice. For now, I would go 2x6850. You can always sell them later to upgrade to whatever is the best price/performance at that time- this is probably going to be similar investment as adding a second 6950 later would be.
 
Blkout said:
That's cool, but again that's one, possibly two games out of dozens of popular games that MAY perform better with more than 1GB of video memory when using user-mod texture packs. Most consumers can't justify spending more for a 2GB video card for that and I certainly wouldn't.
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The OP specifically mentioned Skyrim as his goal.

A 2GB card also means you can add another 2GB card in CF in the future. Also, for the extra 1GB of VRAM, more shaders, and faster clocks, isn't it worth the $30?

Both my Sapphire 2GB 6950s were only $200 each when hunting for bargains. I see many 6870s in the $170-$200 range.
 
Spare-Flair said:
The OP specifically mentioned Skyrim as his goal.

A 2GB card also means you can add another 2GB card in CF in the future. Also, for the extra 1GB of VRAM, more shaders, and faster clocks, isn't it worth the $30?

Both my Sapphire 2GB 6950s were only $200 each when hunting for bargains. I see many 6870s in the $170-$200 range.
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Worth it for one game? Naa, not when you can play 99% of the rest of the games out there with excellent framerates. By the time you need an additional 6950 to play games, there will be at least another generation of two of cards on the market which likely be a far better investment.

And again, let me clarify that using a single or dual 6870 setup does NOT mean you can't run Skyrim, in fact, I'm sure a single or dual 6870 setup will run Skyrim just fine. You're talking about user mods with extreme video memory requirements which not everyone will want. Don't want anyone to misunderstand from the posts here as they are somewhat misleading.
 
Blkout said:
Worth it for one game? Naa, not when you can play 99% of the rest of the games out there with excellent framerates. By the time you need an additional 6950 to play games, there will be at least another generation of two of cards on the market which likely be a far better investment.
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You keep insisting it is only for one game but I have many games in stock form where 1GB of VRAM is not enough. The Witcher 2, GTA IV, etc.

I started out with a 5870 in March 2010 and quickly felt that I needed the extra VRAM.

It's better to have the freedom to do what you want, mod what you want, than to hit a brick wall over something as silly as 1GB of VRAM that costs 10% of the card. I know it frustrated me when the framerates were excellent but I could not max out certain features because I didn't have enough VRAM. It was the weakpoint of the card.
 
Crossfired 6970's at 1920x1080 is awesome... and I definitely notice it in games where the second card doesn't scale well, or at all. That's why you should buy the single best card you can afford, which'll probably come with 2gb of vram. I wouldn't do with anything less because I like to crank that FSAA, plus you can bet your pants that games will increasingly use more vram, not less, over the next couple of years you'll be using it.
 
Wow, this thing FLIES! It's an HIS IceQ 6950 2GB, so quiet even at 50% fan speed. Compared to a 4870 it's awesome.
 
Spare-Flair said:
You keep insisting it is only for one game but I have many games in stock form where 1GB of VRAM is not enough. The Witcher 2, GTA IV, etc.

I started out with a 5870 in March 2010 and quickly felt that I needed the extra VRAM.

It's better to have the freedom to do what you want, mod what you want, than to hit a brick wall over something as silly as 1GB of VRAM that costs 10% of the card. I know it frustrated me when the framerates were excellent but I could not max out certain features because I didn't have enough VRAM. It was the weakpoint of the card.
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Yes I keep insisting because I think you keep stretching the importance of 2GB of video memory a bit further than it really is. I have The Witcher 2 and GTA IV and both play wonderfully on my 6870 crossfire setup at 1080p, in fact I'm 110% positive I get better framerates than any single GPU card available from AMD or Nvidia at that resolution in any game.

I concede that at resolutions higher than 1080p, more than 1GB of video memory will help in SOME games, not all, but at 1080p its just not needed.
 
Jalidi said:
Crossfired 6970's at 1920x1080 is awesome... and I definitely notice it in games where the second card doesn't scale well, or at all. That's why you should buy the single best card you can afford, which'll probably come with 2gb of vram. I wouldn't do with anything less because I like to crank that FSAA, plus you can bet your pants that games will increasingly use more vram, not less, over the next couple of years you'll be using it.
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And by the time you play a game that actually requires more than 1GB of video memory, there will be lots of new generation cards on the market to support it. It makes ZERO sense to try to buy a video card today that will last you for the next 2-3 years or more, at least for an enthusiast. But then again if you're not an enthusiast, you wouldn't be looking at any high end cards to begin with. Buy what you need today and worry about what you will need 2-3 years from now when that time comes. Video card hardware changes to quickly to try to plan out what you'll still be using in 2-3 years.
 
I usually use a 3-year lifecycle on GPUs (did that with my 4870 1GB and a few other cards), though there's been a time or two where I couldn't wait and had to make an interim upgrade.
 
william_fontaine said:
I usually use a 3-year lifecycle on GPUs (did that with my 4870 1GB and a few other cards), though there's been a time or two where I couldn't wait and had to make an interim upgrade.
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Very few people wait 3 years to upgrade so if you do, then you're in the minority so kudos to you for holding out that long, most people give in long before 3 years.
 
Hey Fontaine, I think you made the right call going with the single 6950 route. Crossfire can be a pain in the ass. Double the cards means double the noise, double the juice used, more heat for the top card (which means it will be even louder), unpredictable scaling, and depending on both your hardware or the game itself, annoying driver issues.

I remember when putting my current rig together a few years ago, all my "research" beforehand told me that two $120 4850s crossfired would give me the performance of $3-400 cards. Maybe that might have been the case in some benchmarking tools, but real world, that was a laugh. Crossfire was a major pain in my ass. I've since upgraded to a single 6970 and haven't looked back. It will be years before I'm worried about upgrading again and no crossfire headaches in the meantime.

Enjoy your card mate. :cool:
 
Blkout said:
Yes I keep insisting because I think you keep stretching the importance of 2GB of video memory a bit further than it really is. I have The Witcher 2 and GTA IV and both play wonderfully on my 6870 crossfire setup at 1080p, in fact I'm 110% positive I get better framerates than any single GPU card available from AMD or Nvidia at that resolution in any game.

I concede that at resolutions higher than 1080p, more than 1GB of video memory will help in SOME games, not all, but at 1080p its just not needed.
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Can you max all the settings in stock GTA IV? If you do, the in-game counter will even tell you that you are exceeding 1GB of VRAM. You are right, for the majority of games (being console ports) it doesn't matter but there are always a handful of games where even the stock settings cannot be maxed unless you have more than 1GB of VRAM and dozens more when you use user made mods.

Why suffer that when you can pay 10% more $ for 100% more ram? Why limit yourself as to what you can enable in ALL games or limit yourself in terms of future upgrading (CF/SLI) by buying a 1GB card at today's prices?
 
Blkout said:
And by the time you play a game that actually requires more than 1GB of video memory, there will be lots of new generation cards on the market to support it. It makes ZERO sense to try to buy a video card today that will last you for the next 2-3 years or more, at least for an enthusiast. But then again if you're not an enthusiast, you wouldn't be looking at any high end cards to begin with. Buy what you need today and worry about what you will need 2-3 years from now when that time comes. Video card hardware changes to quickly to try to plan out what you'll still be using in 2-3 years.
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I purchased a 1GB 5870 in March 2010.

Now, 18 months later. That card has basically the same performance level as a 6970 (10% faster). The new generation barely improved at all. If I had purchased a 2GB 5870 back in the day, I wouldn't have needed to upgrade at all for just gaming.

Now I have 13 5870s and 3 of them are 2GB models and I also have two 2GB 6950s but that's a different story.
 
shantd said:
Hey Fontaine, I think you made the right call going with the single 6950 route. Crossfire can be a pain in the ass. Double the cards means double the noise, double the juice used, more heat for the top card (which means it will be even louder), unpredictable scaling, and depending on both your hardware or the game itself, annoying driver issues.

I remember when putting my current rig together a few years ago, all my "research" beforehand told me that two $120 4850s crossfired would give me the performance of $3-400 cards. Maybe that might have been the case in some benchmarking tools, but real world, that was a laugh. Crossfire was a major pain in my ass. I've since upgraded to a single 6970 and haven't looked back. It will be years before I'm worried about upgrading again and no crossfire headaches in the meantime.

Enjoy your card mate. :cool:
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I have two 6870's, I don't have double the noise, I can't hear either card running even at full load. It uses more power but not double, you should check the crossfire reviews and you'll see that the power usage doesn't double. Scaling works fine, rarely have I had an issue where I don't see at least a 80% increase in framerates from the second card. Temp differences between the two cards is 6 degrees, but both cards are WELL within their thermal limits and rarely exceed 70-75 degrees so I don't see the issue.

I think you're WAY out of the loop on crossfire. If it makes you feel better about your purchase that's fine, but I paid no more for two 6870's than you did for a 6970 and my 6870's will run circles around your 6970. Not trying to be ugly, its just fact.
 
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