1st Intel system...advice wanted...

J

Joe2478

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I've squeezed every bit of life out of my current XP 3200+ system and it's time to bury it (or turn in a file server) and give a new system life. After doing quite a bit of research, and advice from some friends, I've decided to go back to Intel. I'm pretty much ready to click "add to cart" on my newegg wishlist but I wanted to run it by you kind folks first. Figured there's got to be at least one place I'm going too cheap on or even maybe wasting money buy buying something I'll never use. So here's my new system's build. Any advice or comments would be greatly appreciated....

- Intel Core2 Duo E6850 Conroe 3.0GHz
- ASUS Striker Extreme (My friend thinks this is a complete waste of $$$)
- XFX GeForce 8800GTX Extreme
- 4GB Crucial Ballistix Tracer DDR2 1066
- Rosewill RX850-S-B 850W PS

The only things I'm not so sure about is the memory and power supply. I don't know jack about PSs and, honestly, memory speeds confuse the hell out of me. Also, with the system as is, do I have any upgrade ability concerns over the next year or so? Thanks for any help you can give.
 
Your friend is right.

The Striker Extreme is a very temperamental board not worth the extreme price. Furthermore, considering all the issues with the 680i chipset lately, the latest of which is its surprise inability to work with the next generation of Core 2 Quad Core processors, now is not the time to be purchasing a SLI motherboard unless you are a positive candidate for SLI, which requires a) that you game at a resolution of at least 1920x1200 and b) that you can afford to get two cards now, as SLI as an upgrade solution is never a good idea.

Considering you only have one GTX card in your proposed rig, I would suggest a P-35 board instead. Consider the Abit IP-35 Pro, ASUS P5K-E, or Gigabyte DS3R.

I would also suggest looking at another video card. The 8800 GT nearly approaches the GTX in performance but can be had for half the price, making the GTX more or less a lame-duck card--awaiting its own replacement by a newer model. The only rig that would benefit from the GTX today is one that is paired to a 30 inch monitor. Two GTX or Ultras are actually needed to drive current games with high settings at the native resolution of a 30-incher.

This advice is just the start. To better understand what you are trying to build, and to give better advice, it would be helpful if you could provide us with the specs of the monitor you plan to use with the rig as well as a description of what you'll use the rig for.

Lastly, be sure to run Vista x64 if you're going with 4 gigs of RAM. A 32-bit OS is limited to 4 gigs MINUS the sum of the component memory in your system (i.e. memory in your video and sound cards.)

Good luck,

Mark.
 
Thanks for the advice. You've definetly steered me away from the Striker and will most likely be going with the ASUS P5K-E.

As for the video card, would I be better off going SLI with 2 GTs then 1 GTX? I can get 2 8800GTs for only about $100 more then 1 GTX.

As for the monitor, I'm currently using a 26 inch Sony tv/monitor. I'll have to look up the model when I get home but it's running at 1600x1200. If i remember correctly, I think I run games (WoW mostly) at 1366x768. (Pretty sure those numbers are right.) WoW and FPS are what I mostly use the system for.
 
For that resolution, you would be best off with a single 8800 GT. Avoid SLI for the reasons stated in my above post. 1366x768 < 1920x1200.

Futhermore, the Core 2 6850 is overkill, assuming you are planning to overclock. The E6750 has the same OC headroom, meaning that provided you pair a good air cooler with your processor, you'll get an E6850 to 4.0ghz and you'll get an E6750 to... drum roll, 4.0ghz.

If you don't OC, then evaluate whether or not the added mhz at stock worth the added cash. If WoW gaming is what you primarily plan to do with your rig, than it likely won't be.

Lastly, there is no need to waste money on anything faster than DDR2-800 RAM, unless you plan to OC an E6750 to 4ghz and want to do 4 gigs in a 2x2 configuration. Both the E6750 and the E6850 (especially the E6850) have high multipliers, making faster RAM generally worthless and a waste of money. If you do plan to get an E6750 and want a 4.0ghz OC, look for 800mhz Crucial Ballistix or other Micron D9 RAM which can OC to 1000mhz and beyond. As stated above, the only reasonable call for rated 1000mhz or 1066mhz RAM is if you want an E6750 at 4ghz w/o going to a 4x1 gig setup.

Enginurd has a very nice cut-and-paste explaining the math behind this. Take a look at some of the other system build threads... you'll see it soon enough.

Mark.
 
Joe2478 said:
Thanks for the advice. You've definetly steered me away from the Striker and will most likely be going with the ASUS P5K-E.

As for the video card, would I be better off going SLI with 2 GTs then 1 GTX? I can get 2 8800GTs for only about $100 more then 1 GTX.

As for the monitor, I'm currently using a 26 inch Sony tv/monitor. I'll have to look up the model when I get home but it's running at 1600x1200. If i remember correctly, I think I run games (WoW mostly) at 1366x768. (Pretty sure those numbers are right.) WoW and FPS are what I mostly use the system for.
Click to expand...

The Asus P5K-E does not support SLI. You don't need SLI if you only game at 1600x1200 or lower, so don't bother with it. Stick with a single 8800GT unless you get a 24" LCD and want to game at a native resolution of 1920x1200 with full detail. And if so, you'd be best off waiting for NVIDIA's new nForce chipset.

EDIT: /me slow... here's the math Mark was talkin about:


/*------------- <cut n paste> -------------*/
Formulas for Intel platform @ 1:1 settings: (base FSB speed is SDR, or single data rate)
c × [Base FSB speed] = CPU Clock speed (c = CPU Multiplier)
2 × [Base FSB speed] = RAM speed (DDR: double data rate)
4 × [Base FSB speed] = Effective FSB speed (QDR: quad data rate)

On Intel platforms, running the RAM higher than a 1:1 ratio with the CPU is, for the most part, useless, so don't bother trying to do so. If the BIOS does it for you, just let it. All you need is a 1:1 config, though. Here's some possible clock speeds (as always with OC'ing, your results will vary):

E6750: 8 × 333 = 2.6Ghz, DDR2-667 << STOCK speeds
E6750: 8 × 400 = 3.2Ghz, DDR2-800 << Easy OC
E6750: 8 × 450 = 3.6Ghz, DDR2-900 << Good OC
E6750: 8 × 500 = 4.0Ghz, DDR2-1000 << Great OC
/*------------- </cut n paste> -------------*/

If you want 2GB and want to OC past 3.2Ghz, go with these ballistix:
$75 - Crucial Ballistix 2GB (2x1GB) DDR2-800 BL2KIT12864AA804 ($25MIR)

if you want 4GB and want to OC past 3.2Ghz, go with these:
$130 - G.SKILL 4GB(2x2GB) DDR2-1000 F2-8000CL5D-4GBPQ
 
So here's the new breakdown:

CPU - Intel Core2 Duo E6850 Conroe 3.0GHz
Heatsink - ASUS V-60 CPU Cooler [Added]
Motherboard - ASUS P5K-E [Changed]
Video Card - XFX GeForce 8800GTX Extreme
Memory - 2G Crucial Ballistix Tracer DDR2 1066 [Changed]
Power Supply - Corsair 620HX PS [Changed]

First I'll explain why/what I kept the same. For the CPU, I'm not going to be OCing (at least not at first) so I didn't want to go a step down. As for the video card, I see myself very realistically upgrading my monitor in the foreseeable future. I had a Sony tv/monitor combo for awhile b/c I played my 360 on it as well but now it's completely dedicated to my computer. No reason not to get a "real" monitor now. That's why I kept the GTX on there. Figured if I get a nice enough monitor, I might even get another GTX to go SLI. (Yeah, I know that means I'll have to replace the MOBO.) I'd rather get a GTX now that I'll probably want soon then save some money by getting a GT or GTS that I'll wish I didn't have come new monitor time.

As for the changes, I changed motherboards and power supply thanks to your advice and changed the memory from 4G to 2G. It's not like I can't get more ram after the fact if I want it.

So whatcha think? Much better then what I started with?
 
Better but not great.

About the CPU, I hardly think you can still justify the extra money for 300mhz. But its your cash so do what you please with it.

Is there are reason you stayed with the 1066 Tracers?
 
I agree with Crashthenet on the CPU.

Also, 4 gigs of 800mhz of RAM is better than 2 gigs of 1066mhz RAM. I'm not sure where you got the idea to drop 2 gigs, unless you;'re set on keeping XP Pro 32-bit instead of Vista 64. There is no justifiable reason to get 1066mhz RAM when you plan to get an E6850. It's a waste of money.

Furthermore, the GTX is really dead in the water with the release of the GTS 512 model (based on the G92 card.) If you're set on having the best, my advice is to wait until early next year for the GTX replacement. Getting a GTX now is a waste of money which will result in nothing more than buyers remorse.

SLI as an upgrade path is always a terrible idea, as by the time you are ready to upgrade, a newer, single card will likely be available that will outperform two of the older card in SLI, and this newer card will still cost around the same as a second old one (or slightly less if you sell the original card.) This means that if you wait until February for the proposed GTX replacement, buying one next-gen GTX will net you a card equal or faster than two current-gen GTX cards in SLI. Even if it doesn't, the performance of the newer card will come close enough that there should be no reason to go the SLI route, especially since you would be replacing the motherboard. Keep in mind that single-card systems run cooler, are easier to maintain, and provide for more upgrade options.

As stated above, SLI is only worth considering if a) you're gaming at resolution of 1920x1200 or higher and b) you can afford to get two cards today. The only SLI solution worth considering right now from a price / performance standpoint (unless you are gaming on a 30 incher and must buy today) are two 8800 GT 512s in SLI. Cheaper than the new GTS, two GT 512s will significantly outperform one Ultra for less than the cost of that Ultra. Still, two GT 512s are only worth getting if you game at a resolution of 1920x1200. The GTS 512, released today, is faster than the GT, but not by enough to justify its higher price.

Good luck on the rig,

Mark.
 
You only need DDR2-533 to keep in sync with current Intel CPUs. DDR, DDR2 and DDR3 are all double pumped, which means the clock signal is actuall 266MHz for DDR2-533. Intel FSB since the P4 is quad pumped, which means 1066MHz advertised is really 266MHz. They're the same. Don't be fooled by the marketing - you have no use for 1066MHz memory unless you're an extreme overclocker. I'm not even running at DDR2-800 speeds at 3.26GHz.
 
I would get the new Nvidia 8800GTS. It is about 150 bucks cheaper (+/-) and equal in performance to the 8800GTX.
 
Not to beat on the memory topic, but you do realize that the only difference between Tracers and Ballistix are the LED's. Ballistix are $50 after rebate.

Also don't forget that you'll need a 64bit version of XP or Vista to make use of all 4gigs.

About the GTS you probably should look through this thread over at xtreme about the G92 GTS that was launched today.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=169082

Theres lots of reviews in there and by reading it you'll be able to pick out the right GTS at the Egg.
 
Yeah, took me a minute comparing to realize that was the only difference. I'm a lazy ass when it comes to MIRs so I'll just probably just stick with the LEDs. I'm not really going to be modding the inside of the tower so anything blinky is better then nothing I guess.

I've got the OS problem taken care of. Vista64 ready to go.

Thanks for the link to the G92 GTS info. I found XFX's Standard Edition on newegg but not the XXX edition. It's on XFX's website. Kind of surprised to find one on newegg but not the other.

Whats up with the 640MB XXX Edition? Is this as close to a GTX you can get with a GTS or is the new G92 GTS even better then it?
 
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A 640 meg GTS includes the old G80 core, and will be significantly slower than a GTS 512 and a GTX. The only GTS you should consider is one which comes with 512 megs of memory, as this is the only configuration of GTS which includes the newer G92 core at the moment.

Mark.
 
Since you're not planning on overclocking, ditch the Tracers. Also you won't notice the lower latency outside of synthetic benchmarks. So in your situation, those Tracers are not good buys considering that you're not overclocking and won't notice the lower latency.

Though if you do plan on overclocking pretty high in the future, then stick with the Tracers. If not, ditch em and get this 4GB RAM set instead:
G.SKILL F2-6400CL5D-4GMPQ 2 x 2GB DDR2 800 RAM - $95

I agree with Markyip1 and crashthenet44 about the CPU. The E6750 has a clock speed of 2.66Ghz and costs about $190. The E6850 has a clock speed of 3.0Ghz and a price tag of $280. So all you're getting for that extra $90 over the E6750 is 333Mhz. Doesn't seem justified to me.

Oh yes, the 8800GTS you're looking for should have 512MB of VRAM on it.
 
Markyip1 said:
A 640 meg GTS includes the old G80 core, and will be significantly slower than a GTS 512 and a GTX. The only GTS you should consider is one which comes with 512 megs of memory, as this is the only configuration of GTS which includes the newer G92 core at the moment.

Mark.
Click to expand...

Ok. I'll just keep an eye out for it.

Danny Bui said:
Since you're not planning on overclocking, ditch the Tracers.
Click to expand...

Well, I say I'm not going to OC now, but you know as soon as I get this baby up and running I'm going to change my mind and see what else I can squeeze out of it.
 
ganesh21 said:
i believe they were just release this week. the new GTS have 512 MB of ram. i believe if you do a google search you will find a few review on the new GTS.
Click to expand...

crashthenet linked me to all the info on the new GTS. I want the XFX version and even found their page talking about it. I just haven't been able to find the XXX Edition for sale anywhere yet.
 
Joe2478 said:
Memory - 2G Crucial Ballistix Tracer DDR2 1066 [Changed]
... changed the memory from 4G to 2G.
Click to expand...

Joe2478 said:
Ok... 4G Crucial Ballistix Tracer DDR2 800 instead of 2G Crucial Ballistix Tracer DDR2 1066

Twice the memory and only $20 more
Click to expand...

Your selections:
$75 - Crucial Ballistix Tracer 2GB (2x1GB) DDR2-800 BL2KIT12864AL804 CL4
$130 - Crucial Ballistix Tracer 2GB (2x1GB) DDR2-1066 BL2KIT12864AL1065 CL4

My suggestions:
2GB: $75 - Crucial Ballistix 2GB (2x1GB) DDR2-800 BL2KIT12864AA804 CL4 ($25MIR)
4GB light OC'ing: $110 - G.Skill 4GB (2x2GB) DDR2-800 F2-6400CL5D-4GBPQ CL5
4GB heavy OC'ing: $130 - G.Skill 4GB (2x2GB) DDR2-1000 F2-8000CL5D-4GBPQ CL5

The only time you'll notice the difference between CL4 and CL5 is when you're running benchmarks -- and even then, the difference is negligible for 99% of everyone running such benchmarks. So, paying $130 for 2GB when 4GB is only $110 just doesn't make sense to me, especially since you seem to not have a real need for CL4 RAM. But hey, if you want it... whatever floats your boat.

Ballistix Tracers use the SAME ICs (chips) as the regular Ballistix, so the regular Ballistix can OC way past DDR2-1066. So, why pay $130 when you can get the same ICs for $50AR? The only difference are the LEDs, as crash pointed out. LEDs on the RAM is worth $25 to you? again... whatever floats your boat.

As you can see from the chart below... you don't even need DDR2-1066 speed. If you go for the E6850, against everyone's recommendation, you will not even need DDR2-900... but again, whatever flips your switch.

enginurd said:
...
E6750: 8 × 333 = 2.6Ghz, DDR2-667 << STOCK speeds
E6750: 8 × 400 = 3.2Ghz, DDR2-800 << Easy OC
E6750: 8 × 450 = 3.6Ghz, DDR2-900 << Good OC
E6750: 8 × 500 = 4.0Ghz, DDR2-1000 << Great OC
/*------------- </cut n paste> -------------*/

If you want 2GB and want to OC past 3.2Ghz, go with these ballistix:
$75 - Crucial Ballistix 2GB (2x1GB) DDR2-800 BL2KIT12864AA804 ($25MIR)

if you want 4GB and want to OC past 3.2Ghz, go with these:
$130 - G.SKILL 4GB(2x2GB) DDR2-1000 F2-8000CL5D-4GBPQ
Click to expand...

Again, as crash mentioned, ditch the E6850. The E6750 and E6850 have the same OC potential, so, as Danny mentioned, the price premium for 333Mhz isn't worth it.

Don't say we didn't inform you. ;)
 
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